Gentlemen, please. Let's just all agree that we need a Vanilla WoW server and put this to rest. Done? Okay then! :awesome:
No what i need is a Ferrari and unlimited AmEx... But if you are ok with seteling on a classic server... that will stand for you. My guess is that we hav about the same chance of getting what we want.
100.000 signatures and still growing, roughly 1,000 an hour. The BBC, an international publication picked up the story and Blizz still hasn't commented back.
100,000 or one million, it really makes no difference, it's a matter of where Blizzard's business strategy lay. IF they have no plans nor want to amend those plans to include it, they won't. Like I said in another thread, services and products are not democratic entities. It's essentially making a demand to be the focus of a businesses attention, no one is obligated to meet such a demand, that's part of free trade.
Where they want to focus their attention is something they should be able to decide on their own. People shouldn't have an expectation of forcing their hand on such an issue, that's just juvenile.
All of this depends on their intentions for WOW over the course of the next few years, for all we know they could have their own F2P/B2P formula in mind for the not so distant future, anything is possible in that regard. What's being asked for here could quite simply interfere with their own plans for their own property.
Not sure what either of you are trying to convince me with my purely journalistic update. There was no opinion involved, other then my estimation on hourly progress which I watched throughout the day. (Which seems to have slowed since reaching the 100,000 goal). The BBC reached out to Blizz for comment. I found it interesting Blizz still didn't comment to them as this story isn't just for the MMO elitists anymore.
I was simply carrying on the debate. That's why I'm here .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes this graph only shows how WoW subscriptions fell with expansions .You do not have a graph of how it would have been had there been no expansions after Wrath. It may have fallen just the same even if they had not introduced the expansions. The point is you do not know at all. What you have is no evidence to back what he says at all.
Subscriptions could also have fallen for a variety of reasons that could have been because the game had gotten old and other games were on the market that drew players away. If there was another game that had the success of WoW and fell similarly then you would have a pattern right now you don't.
I agree games will naturally shed players.... However, the graph disagrees with us both, at least through TBC and WotLK.
Through the first 6 years (including 2 expansions), the game consistently grew instead of shedding players. You can clearly see the expansions didn't lead to temporary spikes, like one would logical believe, but to a consistent growth in continuing players.
Then.... Cataclysm hit. Things began to stall. However, they only began to decline at a rate that you and I would agree is normal for a game aging well past 6 years old. So, even at that point, I'd say Blizzard was doing about the best they could do for the game. And the population shows that.
However, MoP started the trend of upticks right after expansion followed by sharp declines less than 6 months after its release. WoD shows the problem only got worse.
There have been numerous MMORPGs that haven't lasted 6 years without dropping all barriers to entry and/or closing shop entirely. I think the graph is very telling in that, somewhere between WotLK's release and the release of WoD, Blizzard began to move in a direction much less effective at retaining players. That's not to say they wouldn't have shed players still, but it should've been more gradual and uniform. Sharp declines less than 6 months after a major expansion says something more than "the game is aging." Specifically when you were growing your playerbase through the first 6 years and two expansion releases.
I just want to add about the sub thing...you can't make a rock bleed. If some person is failing at life so bad that they have to wrestle with the "morality" of giving a company $15 a month to game on their servers...they have issues (obviously.)
If they can't afford a simple sub you shouldn't allow them to game by going F2P then and hoping they drop a few measely dollars in a cash shop some day.
I am hoping that the silence from Blizzard is cause they are throwing around the idea with shareholders and that they soon respond to the question. This has caused such a big uproar I would at least think they would comment on this sometime soon.
I am hoping that the silence from Blizzard is cause they are throwing around the idea with shareholders and that they soon respond to the question. This has caused such a big uproar I would at least think they would comment on this sometime soon.
Given that several folks around here have said they're shareholders and there are doubtless other, silent, shareholders and the fact that nothing has been said about any discussions, it's doubtful. The next investor meeting isn't until July and, honestly, this isn't a big topic for them no matter what we who love the game may think. Investors want return on investment, bar none.
I am hoping that the silence from Blizzard is cause they are throwing around the idea with shareholders and that they soon respond to the question. This has caused such a big uproar I would at least think they would comment on this sometime soon.
Given that several folks around here have said they're shareholders and there are doubtless other, silent, shareholders and the fact that nothing has been said about any discussions, it's doubtful. The next investor meeting isn't until July and, honestly, this isn't a big topic for them no matter what we who love the game may think. Investors want return on investment, bar none.
It's not nostalgia, is because the warcraft vanilla is better than WoD trash...
Hyperbolic opinion. Around 5M people disagree with you, though you are obviously entitled to your thoughts on the issue.
Even though i wouldnt play a vanilla server(dont have the time). The only reason i bought WoD was the nostalgia of how good WoW mused to be in Vanilla and TBC times.I quitted wod 3 months after.Speaking with many guild mates the majority of them consider the game a laod of crap but 10 years its a lot of time.Beileve me the amount people consider this expansion decent.Its extremely low
If they opened up a "vanilla" server I'd give WoW a try. I won't play any MMO that's been running more than a year because I'd just feel like I'd be playing catchup in comparison to everyone that started at launch. I know it sounds silly but that's just how I am.
Restarting isn't that bad of an idea. Blizzard has had more than a decade to identify all the points where they went wrong, or where the players think they went wrong. A fresh start may be just what they need.
That's just my opinion of course.
---Now that I think about it, I think it might just be best to reboot it with a new engine. WoW has already passed its life expectancy and Blizzard/Activision may not find the capital return of legacy servers worth the cost. Either way I'll give it a try.
Post edited by Blaze_Rocker on
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
I am hoping that the silence from Blizzard is cause they are throwing around the idea with shareholders and that they soon respond to the question. This has caused such a big uproar I would at least think they would comment on this sometime soon.
Given that several folks around here have said they're shareholders and there are doubtless other, silent, shareholders and the fact that nothing has been said about any discussions, it's doubtful. The next investor meeting isn't until July and, honestly, this isn't a big topic for them no matter what we who love the game may think. Investors want return on investment, bar none.
If they only care about the stockholders I have a hunch that the stock will continue to drop. Companies need happy customers to continue giving returns to said investors. Blizz has only shown their true colors through this ordeal. That remaining 5M seem to be having the same old flame war regarding class homogenization and complete removal of class uniqueness on the official forums. Interesting they seem to be complaining about the same things that broke the game through the last 2 expansions. Blizz is only showing that they don't listen and a return to garrisons is just laughable.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
"It is difficult to separate the emotionally charged feelings of players wishing for a figuratively earlier, simpler time in WoW from the seemingly cold decisions of those vested with extracting the maximum profit from the game."
no its not. just throw money at them.
the moment they think they can make more money by creating vanilla wow servers than they can by updating their other games, there will be vanilla wow servers.
granted the only way this would happen is if you hand them millions of dollars up front, most likely .. so i guess that would be difficult to do .. but .. yea.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I am hoping that the silence from Blizzard is cause they are throwing around the idea with shareholders and that they soon respond to the question. This has caused such a big uproar I would at least think they would comment on this sometime soon.
Given that several folks around here have said they're shareholders and there are doubtless other, silent, shareholders and the fact that nothing has been said about any discussions, it's doubtful. The next investor meeting isn't until July and, honestly, this isn't a big topic for them no matter what we who love the game may think. Investors want return on investment, bar none.
If they only care about the stockholders I have a hunch that the stock will continue to drop. Companies need happy customers to continue giving returns to said investors. Blizz has only shown their true colors through this ordeal. That remaining 5M seem to be having the same old flame war regarding class homogenization and complete removal of class uniqueness on the official forums. Interesting they seem to be complaining about the same things that broke the game through the last 2 expansions. Blizz is only showing that they don't listen and a return to garrisons is just laughable.
jumped .87 today (from legion announcement) ............ hit all time high inn the past year .. and has grown steadily for the past 8 ..Soo yea , investors are veryy happy with ATVI and the decisons /direction they have moved all there IPs...
Yes this graph only shows how WoW subscriptions fell with expansions .You do not have a graph of how it would have been had there been no expansions after Wrath. It may have fallen just the same even if they had not introduced the expansions. The point is you do not know at all. What you have is no evidence to back what he says at all.
Subscriptions could also have fallen for a variety of reasons that could have been because the game had gotten old and other games were on the market that drew players away. If there was another game that had the success of WoW and fell similarly then you would have a pattern right now you don't.
I agree games will naturally shed players.... However, the graph disagrees with us both, at least through TBC and WotLK.
Through the first 6 years (including 2 expansions), the game consistently grew instead of shedding players. You can clearly see the expansions didn't lead to temporary spikes, like one would logical believe, but to a consistent growth in continuing players.
Then.... Cataclysm hit. Things began to stall. However, they only began to decline at a rate that you and I would agree is normal for a game aging well past 6 years old. So, even at that point, I'd say Blizzard was doing about the best they could do for the game. And the population shows that.
However, MoP started the trend of upticks right after expansion followed by sharp declines less than 6 months after its release. WoD shows the problem only got worse.
There have been numerous MMORPGs that haven't lasted 6 years without dropping all barriers to entry and/or closing shop entirely. I think the graph is very telling in that, somewhere between WotLK's release and the release of WoD, Blizzard began to move in a direction much less effective at retaining players. That's not to say they wouldn't have shed players still, but it should've been more gradual and uniform. Sharp declines less than 6 months after a major expansion says something more than "the game is aging." Specifically when you were growing your playerbase through the first 6 years and two expansion releases.
I believe that sales of each expansion were over 10 million for each expansion. So I sometimes wonder if people simply aren't sticking around. I remember seeing sales numbers somewhere that supported that, but can't find it right now. So it may not be that it's lost interest as. Icy as it is that gamers have changed and are playing multiple games instead of one. Completely speculative.
While we could go back and forth with the blow by blow of the ever changing stocks.. It can't be denied it's been on shakier ground since their disgruntled fanbase has been growing the past few weeks. While it went up the single day the movie was announced, it was down for several days before and now a couple days following.
Current supporters of the petition: 202,455
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
The reason Blizzard Activision aren't doing so hot with WoW is the systems they've introduced breaking apart the social aspects of the game. They turned WoD into the ultimate online solo experience outside of a few group quests plopped across the land (good luck finding someone to do them with) and Garrison / Mission Tables simply target the wrong kind of player if they want to have long term retention. They also haven't been releasing enough content to keep people in the game.
I see no 'vs' here. "All of which brings us to the WoW vanilla server discussion that boils down to one of player emotionalism (nostalgia) over corporate rationalism (profit)." Oh really ?!! I can't see any 'rationalism' here. Well...maybe if not wanting to have customers back can be called rationalism....
I can see no logic here. How could getting even hundreds of thousands people back be bad ? As for arguments that vanilla will get more people than normal servers...it won't. Younger players, who know WoW as it is now will still be a majority, and they will keep playing on progressive servers, so I see no risk.
Not wanting to get like 20-30% people back...strange. Corporate thinking is something twisted and retarded.
Hum Mark Kern is saying exactly what I have been even though the WOW Forum goer thinks WOW is in great shape.
PCI: What’s your take on the World of Warcraft we see today on the live servers?
I don’t play WoW anymore, I haven’t really since WotLC and the beginning of Cat. But I can see the simplification and streamlining to reach a wider audience has cost Blizzard something. It’s cost them long term retention, put them into a content trap where the only thing worth playing is the just the latest expansion, and how that only last 3 weeks. I hear this from WoW fans everywhere I go. They all say the same thing, that they left WoW because of the way the game has been oversimplified. Now, there are millions that are playing now that do enjoy this streamlined experience, because we all have less time these days. But these veteran players, the ones who left, will only come back if the challenge is restored. Legacy/Progression servers are a good way to do that.
You really think you can get 20-30% back when you cannot even get 300 k to sign the petition and with multiple copy signatures that figure must be significantly lower.
I personally did not like the dumping down of WoW but I'm not that naive to think that EMU servers were made up of people who would mostly pay for WoW. Most play it because its free and seeing as they can find these servers the argument that the petition was not sufficiently advertised to get them to sign is crock. When they can find these servers they are also people who have a finger on the pulse of these type of illegal things. Of course they knew about the petition but more likely did not care enough to sign .
So all you people that are against it. Mark Kern the guy who developed WOW tell it like it is.
have you ever stopped to ask your self what Kerns agenda is....?
I can come up with more than a few that renders this topic just a simple and quick stepping stone for Kern. In essence using your desires to further his own agenda.
So all you people that are against it. Mark Kern the guy who developed WOW tell it like it is.
have you ever stopped to ask your self what Kerns agenda is....?
I can come up with more than a few that renders this topic just a simple and quick stepping stone for Kern. In essence using your desires to further his own agenda.
he needs a job .. ohh wait he had one but Red 3 chased him out of town ...
Comments
This have been a good conversation
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Through the first 6 years (including 2 expansions), the game consistently grew instead of shedding players. You can clearly see the expansions didn't lead to temporary spikes, like one would logical believe, but to a consistent growth in continuing players.
Then.... Cataclysm hit. Things began to stall. However, they only began to decline at a rate that you and I would agree is normal for a game aging well past 6 years old. So, even at that point, I'd say Blizzard was doing about the best they could do for the game. And the population shows that.
However, MoP started the trend of upticks right after expansion followed by sharp declines less than 6 months after its release. WoD shows the problem only got worse.
There have been numerous MMORPGs that haven't lasted 6 years without dropping all barriers to entry and/or closing shop entirely. I think the graph is very telling in that, somewhere between WotLK's release and the release of WoD, Blizzard began to move in a direction much less effective at retaining players. That's not to say they wouldn't have shed players still, but it should've been more gradual and uniform. Sharp declines less than 6 months after a major expansion says something more than "the game is aging." Specifically when you were growing your playerbase through the first 6 years and two expansion releases.
If they can't afford a simple sub you shouldn't allow them to game by going F2P then and hoping they drop a few measely dollars in a cash shop some day.
Put up or shut up, imho.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If they opened up a "vanilla" server I'd give WoW a try. I won't play any MMO that's been running more than a year because I'd just feel like I'd be playing catchup in comparison to everyone that started at launch. I know it sounds silly but that's just how I am.
Restarting isn't that bad of an idea. Blizzard has had more than a decade to identify all the points where they went wrong, or where the players think they went wrong. A fresh start may be just what they need.
That's just my opinion of course.
---Now that I think about it, I think it might just be best to reboot it with a new engine. WoW has already passed its life expectancy and Blizzard/Activision may not find the capital return of legacy servers worth the cost. Either way I'll give it a try.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
If they only care about the stockholders I have a hunch that the stock will continue to drop. Companies need happy customers to continue giving returns to said investors. Blizz has only shown their true colors through this ordeal. That remaining 5M seem to be having the same old flame war regarding class homogenization and complete removal of class uniqueness on the official forums. Interesting they seem to be complaining about the same things that broke the game through the last 2 expansions. Blizz is only showing that they don't listen and a return to garrisons is just laughable.
no its not. just throw money at them.
the moment they think they can make more money by creating vanilla wow servers than they can by updating their other games, there will be vanilla wow servers.
granted the only way this would happen is if you hand them millions of dollars up front, most likely .. so i guess that would be difficult to do .. but .. yea.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I believe that sales of each expansion were over 10 million for each expansion. So I sometimes wonder if people simply aren't sticking around. I remember seeing sales numbers somewhere that supported that, but can't find it right now. So it may not be that it's lost interest as. Icy as it is that gamers have changed and are playing multiple games instead of one. Completely speculative.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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While we could go back and forth with the blow by blow of the ever changing stocks.. It can't be denied it's been on shakier ground since their disgruntled fanbase has been growing the past few weeks. While it went up the single day the movie was announced, it was down for several days before and now a couple days following.
Current supporters of the petition: 202,455
I can see no logic here. How could getting even hundreds of thousands people back be bad ? As for arguments that vanilla will get more people than normal servers...it won't. Younger players, who know WoW as it is now will still be a majority, and they will keep playing on progressive servers, so I see no risk.
Not wanting to get like 20-30% people back...strange. Corporate thinking is something twisted and retarded.
http://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-world-of-warcraft-dev-explains-blizzard-vanilla
So all you people that are against it. Mark Kern the guy who developed WOW tell it like it is.
Hum Mark Kern is saying exactly what I have been even though the WOW Forum goer thinks WOW is in great shape.
PCI: What’s your take on the World of Warcraft we see today on the live servers?
I don’t play WoW anymore, I haven’t really since WotLC and the beginning of Cat. But I can see the simplification and streamlining to reach a wider audience has cost Blizzard something. It’s cost them long term retention, put them into a content trap where the only thing worth playing is the just the latest expansion, and how that only last 3 weeks. I hear this from WoW fans everywhere I go. They all say the same thing, that they left WoW because of the way the game has been oversimplified. Now, there are millions that are playing now that do enjoy this streamlined experience, because we all have less time these days. But these veteran players, the ones who left, will only come back if the challenge is restored. Legacy/Progression servers are a good way to do that.
I personally did not like the dumping down of WoW but I'm not that naive to think that EMU servers were made up of people who would mostly pay for WoW. Most play it because its free and seeing as they can find these servers the argument that the petition was not sufficiently advertised to get them to sign is crock. When they can find these servers they are also people who have a finger on the pulse of these type of illegal things. Of course they knew about the petition but more likely did not care enough to sign .
I can come up with more than a few that renders this topic just a simple and quick stepping stone for Kern. In essence using your desires to further his own agenda.
This have been a good conversation