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If Blizzard Opens Vanilla Servers, Fans Will Have Bigger Problems

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited April 2016 in News & Features Discussion

imageIf Blizzard Opens Vanilla Servers, Fans Will Have Bigger Problems

I have seen MMORPGs rise and fall, but none of them felt as depressing as watching Nostalrius, the most popular private server for World of Warcraft, shut down on Sunday. It wasn't just the end of a wonderful community, but a stark reminder that, despite what the back of the box might say, MMORPGs are ultimately products first and virtual societies second.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • Papapeta33Papapeta33 Member UncommonPosts: 11
    Great article. Spot on.
  • qwerhelixqwerhelix Member UncommonPosts: 29
    i agree. its not the time for vanilla servers. look at lineage2 classic servers. they opened classic servers when new lineage is about to be released. Is world of warcraft 2 about to be released? no. thats why we dont have official vanilla servers. wow is not done yet.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,919
    They should open vanilla servers and charge $30 a month to play on them. Might be worth it to them then.

  • qwerhelixqwerhelix Member UncommonPosts: 29
    edited April 2016
    nostalgia is a huge weapon. you can destroy a product with it (i mean future expantions) or you can create new product because of nostalgia. lets say new wow. old players will go to play new wow because they loved vanilla
  • qwerhelixqwerhelix Member UncommonPosts: 29

    kitarad said:

    They should open vanilla servers and charge $30 a month to play on them. Might be worth it to them then.



    they're still not all about the money. they want to create new thing for this game.
  • UlorikUlorik Member UncommonPosts: 179
    They could always do what the Star Trek films did, back to the roots (aka vanilla) and introduce a different timeline, doing away with all the easy peasy childish stuff and getting back some real challenge and raiding.
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited April 2016
    The assumption is always made that the 4-5M players currently involved in WoW are somehow less significant than those who might like to see vanilla servers. That's simply not so. People don't play live versions of WoW because they have to, but because, believe it or not, they want to. Not everyone was enamored of vanilla either.

    Also often dismissed are some of the other amazing moments in WoW's history including what many others (see what I did there?) feel is the best expansion ever, Wrath of the Lich King. 

    The bottom line is that the expansions since vanilla and up through Cata have been very successful and even through WoD, players continue to play and not because they "don't know better" or never experienced vanilla, which is an elitist line of thought. Many people today play WoW because it's fun an enjoyable to them. Who's to say that vanilla is better or worse, for that matter. They are two different states of the same game, much as raw cookie dough is a different state than the baked thing. Both have good flavor but don't appeal to everyone.

    With Legion's launch less than 6 months away, it's unlikely that anything will come out of all of this for at least another year.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • ZarriyaZarriya Member UncommonPosts: 446
    If you see a young kid walking out into the middle of the street, should you let him. No, the right thing to do is to call him back and save him.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Ulorik said:
    They could always do what the Star Trek films did, back to the roots (aka vanilla) and introduce a different timeline, doing away with all the easy peasy childish stuff and getting back some real challenge and raiding.

    This is why it will not happen.  It is what the people playing will demand.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    edited April 2016
    "Considering the massive success of Nostalrius, which had over 800,000 registered accounts, we can only assume that legitimate vanilla servers would have just as many and probably well over that same amount"

    Sure.... Not one of them would use the server just because it is free... No no... We will see a 80-100% conversion rate and it will all be gumdrops and sugarplums.... .. .

    0_o

    "Considering World of Warcraft's rapidly declining subscription numbers, the success of vanilla WoW servers could imply a total failure of its expansions"

    Yes because the fact tat he game is 10+ years have nothing to do with it.... But i guess you do in a way answer the question... If you fail to grasp basic churn... i guess most people will.

    "When you look at other MMORPGs that have sanctioned private servers, the most notable being Everquest,"

    Everquest is in maintenance mode more or less.. they have nothing to lose from doing what they did. It is more or less a final last grasp at some extra revenue and some recognition. The game is about as alive as Ultima Online.

    " it was finally decided to smash the glass covering the big red button on it that read "Demon Hunter Class." "

    I would guess you are partially right. Blizzard is in my opinion getting ready to sunset WoW. So they aim at giving players what they want... Housing in WoD... Demon Hunters in Legion... We might see one or at best two more expansions before the game is put on backup and live out it´s life as a fond memory. Now at this point they might actually relent... If they see any money in it. But to put up their own servers would cost hundreds of thousands if not millions. That is a big check for the community to cash.

    This have been a good conversation

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited April 2016
    [mod edit]
    That was uncalled for and pollutes an otherwise reasonable discussion. :|
    Post edited by Vaross on


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • DClattDClatt Member UncommonPosts: 5
    800,000 registered accounts is obviously popular but hardly a threat to current WoW even in its deepest of recessions. Why? Because I can register but it doesn't mean I play. Has anyone ever looked at the astronomical number of registered hearthstone accounts? All it alludes to is that people showed interest. The number of monthly active accounts is much much smaller. I've played on a vanilla private server. People see things through rose colored glasses when it isn't around anymore. The game was rough back then. Compared to today the questing was boring. 40 man Raids were more a pain in the ass than they were fun. Blizzard doesn't open these servers because the would faceplant. The money they would be required to charge to actually make it worth spending on would bexpect enough to drive players away. From my experience talking to others, most of the players that want vanilla servers never played vanilla. People that actually played the vanilla grind don't want that back. They'd rather see BC or LK return. 40-man-rebuff-fests...no.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Blizzard is in a very tough place with WoW at the moment.

    I keep hearing people say "Subs are declining because it's an old game"

    I've never agreed. IMHO WoW subs are in decline because of the direction Blizzard has taken it and continues to take.

    In the end "Both" are assumptions but the reality is that "Both" are true.

    IMHO What people who want for Vanilla servers wish the most, is that WoW would have stayed a bit truer to the original game.

    It seems that every Expansion brings its own NGE

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • qwerhelixqwerhelix Member UncommonPosts: 29
    i strated to think why people in general want to play wow vanilla. why do they want to do it all again. like we all know how its going to end but we still like it. its also kinda unfair to not let people play vanilla. people like to play single player games many times even if they know how its going to end. the same goes with movies, we know how its going to end but we still enjoy them to see many times. i think humans fundamentally irrational
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    laserit said:
    Blizzard is in a very tough place with WoW at the moment.

    I keep hearing people say "Subs are declining because it's an old game"

    I've never agreed. IMHO WoW subs are in decline because of the direction Blizzard has taken it and continues to take.

    In the end "Both" are assumptions but the reality is that "Both" are true.

    IMHO What people who want for Vanilla servers wish the most, is that WoW would have stayed a bit truer to the original game.

    It seems that every Expansion brings its own NGE

    Well while they are both assumptions... The churn theory is based on facts and numbers, churn is a metric used in all subscription or account based services. Your theory is based on emotion. Not the most stable of platforms. 

    Now ofc they might have been able to stem some of the churn by giving vanilla servers... But you have to understand that for every expansion that comes out you get a new generation of "vanilla"... A group that feel that the best time in WoW was X and that the new expansion has ruined that. 

    So the churn kicks in any way... 

    So what does one suggest to do to stop that... open "legacy" servers for each new expansion? The support cost alone would kill that idea... Or will the simply just tell the people who want BC, Wrath, Cata and so on that they are SoL... Only the Vanilla people get their server..? 



    So in a way you are right... Every expansion bring it´s own churn... The only thing that have really changed is that WoW no longer attracts enough new players to compensate for that... And that is because it is old. (and can´t be played on a Ipad =P )

    This have been a good conversation

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Yep Blizzard is in spot where they know WOW is dying. They do not want to admit that they lost the game when they changed the game starting in WOTLK. This is why they been throwing around lawsuits at anyone that gets a popular Vanilla or TBC server, because they know they have made some grave mistakes. Yet they are too proud to admit it any would rather let WOW die on the vine than make more money on classic servers.

  • knightauditknightaudit Member UncommonPosts: 389
    edited April 2016
    I just do not get it ... Blizzard seems to be missing out and trying to hide the fact that they know it. If they were to add legacy servers (Say one for each, Vanilla, TBC and Wrath) Players would have access to both old and new. Simple rules would be in place like no transfers and no BOA gear allowed on them. Blizzard could profit off the old and new all at the same time.
    They already have a few dead servers .. recondition a few of them and give the players what they want as well as make what the developers want. If you believe that players will not like what they ask for .. Prove it. What is the worst that could happen ... blizzard makes a few million over the 3 to 6 months of a trail period?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    tawess said:
    laserit said:
    Blizzard is in a very tough place with WoW at the moment.

    I keep hearing people say "Subs are declining because it's an old game"

    I've never agreed. IMHO WoW subs are in decline because of the direction Blizzard has taken it and continues to take.

    In the end "Both" are assumptions but the reality is that "Both" are true.

    IMHO What people who want for Vanilla servers wish the most, is that WoW would have stayed a bit truer to the original game.

    It seems that every Expansion brings its own NGE

    Well while they are both assumptions... The churn theory is based on facts and numbers, churn is a metric used in all subscription or account based services. Your theory is based on emotion. Not the most stable of platforms. 

    Now ofc they might have been able to stem some of the churn by giving vanilla servers... But you have to understand that for every expansion that comes out you get a new generation of "vanilla"... A group that feel that the best time in WoW was X and that the new expansion has ruined that. 

    So the churn kicks in any way... 

    So what does one suggest to do to stop that... open "legacy" servers for each new expansion? The support cost alone would kill that idea... Or will the simply just tell the people who want BC, Wrath, Cata and so on that they are SoL... Only the Vanilla people get their server..? 



    So in a way you are right... Every expansion bring it´s own churn... The only thing that have really changed is that WoW no longer attracts enough new players to compensate for that... And that is because it is old. (and can´t be played on a Ipad =P )
    We can agree to disagree

    Wow is not a game that had 500,000 players at is peak it's a game that had 12,000,000 at its peak. IMHO having legacy servers for all Xpacs would be profitable.  Maybe not profitable enough for a multi billion dollar Corp to bother with, but profitable none the less. I'd put money on that any legacy Xpac population would be larger than most other MMORPG's

    Its called serving all your customers and if it's profitable, it' the right thing to do. Nobody expects Blizzard to be a Charity. of course some will argue  >:)

    One thing that Blizzard should do, Legacy servers or not. Is copy BDO's style of mega server's with channels and try to give back some form of community, because their decisions have undeniably helped to destroy it. That is one of the things that Vanilla fans miss the most and One of the things that Nostralius seems to have been successful at.

    Community

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Vanilla server had 800k accounts, of which only 150k of those were active. So the stats are kind of skewed. How many of those 800k accounts had a lifespan of over 30 days? I am all for vanilla servers, but i do not think it would hold my attention for more than a couple of weeks, if that.
    Haroo!
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    laserit said:


    Wow is not a game that had 500,000 players at is peak it's a game that had 12,000,000 at its peak. IMHO having legacy servers for all Xpacs would be profitable.  Maybe not profitable enough for a multi billion dollar Corp to bother with, but profitable none the less. I'd put money on that any legacy Xpac population would be larger than most other MMORPG's


    They would need to double if not triple the number of programmers to maintain the code and expand their support staff to be able to offer at least some form of support (not to mention the increased workload of the CSR´s having to remember the ins and outs of 6 different games rather than one. 


    This have been a good conversation

  • BalianWolfieBalianWolfie Member UncommonPosts: 240
    How is that a problem for Fans, if the underlying implication is that the company is incompetent over the years? I like the shinny new things like maybe blood elves and human hunters, but is it necessary for all other addons like Azeroth quest overhaul and removal of talent tree? Those were essence of the game. But really though, when they decided to spoon feed the player base for the PvE content, I was like ok. And then, when they decided to spoon feed the player base for the PvE content, I was like ok. Finally that, when they decided to spoon feed the player base in real life, I was like... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    image
  • MikePtMikePt Member UncommonPosts: 47
    people you forgot 1 moment Nostalrius was F2P I doubt Official servers will be successful

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    SBFord said:
    The assumption is always made that the 4-5M players currently involved in WoW are somehow less significant than those who might like to see vanilla servers. That's simply not so. People don't play live versions of WoW because they have to, but because, believe it or not, they want to. Not everyone was enamored of vanilla either.

    Also often dismissed are some of the other amazing moments in WoW's history including what many others (see what I did there?) feel is the best expansion ever, Wrath of the Lich King. 

    The bottom line is that the expansions since vanilla and up through Cata have been very successful and even through WoD, players continue to play and not because they "don't know better" or never experienced vanilla, which is an elitist line of thought. Many people today play WoW because it's fun an enjoyable to them. Who's to say that vanilla is better or worse, for that matter. They are two different states of the same game, much as raw cookie dough is a different state than the baked thing. Both have good flavor but don't appeal to everyone.

    With Legion's launch less than 6 months away, it's unlikely that anything will come out of all of this for at least another year.
    Wrath of the Lich King is spelled The Burning Crusade.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    The even bigger problem is that it appears a lot of the people left playing the current iteration of WoW are utterly fixated on the current version and dislike anyone that puts up a negative comment or compares the current game to another. Many returning players who actually post negatively on the official forums are getting thumbs downed like mad even when their posts aren't that aggressive or composed of vitriol.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    tawess said:
    laserit said:


    Wow is not a game that had 500,000 players at is peak it's a game that had 12,000,000 at its peak. IMHO having legacy servers for all Xpacs would be profitable.  Maybe not profitable enough for a multi billion dollar Corp to bother with, but profitable none the less. I'd put money on that any legacy Xpac population would be larger than most other MMORPG's


    They would need to double if not triple the number of programmers to maintain the code and expand their support staff to be able to offer at least some form of support (not to mention the increased workload of the CSR´s having to remember the ins and outs of 6 different games rather than one. 


    If it's profitable, isn't needing triple the number of programmers a good thing?

    More good paying jobs = better for all

    Blizzard seems to be headed in the direction of simple F2P games that maximize profits while minimizing employment.

    This kind of Corporate Culture helping to destroy communities, but in this case it's not gaming communities, but real life ones.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

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