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The Way Forward for a Genre

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Comments

  • ShrikeArghastShrikeArghast Member UncommonPosts: 124
    Bought the game... liked it for a while... got to 50 and completely lost interest. The grind goes from stiff to intolerable from there on out... but in order to PvP competitively, you really have to be 55-56. And, frankly, when it takes 10+ hours to gain a single level, I'm out.
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    edited April 2016
    Bought the game... liked it for a while... got to 50 and completely lost interest. The grind goes from stiff to intolerable from there on out... but in order to PvP competitively, you really have to be 55-56. And, frankly, when it takes 10+ hours to gain a single level, I'm out.
     So I'm confused, people want a game that takes a while to get to end game, but then they complain about it taking too long once they get it. This is why there will never be a game that everyone will play, and why people dreaming that there one day might be, are living a fantasy. Some people in this thread have said it should take 6 months to get to end game. Yet people cry over 10 hours.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,648
    edited April 2016
    Bought the game... liked it for a while... got to 50 and completely lost interest. The grind goes from stiff to intolerable from there on out... but in order to PvP competitively, you really have to be 55-56. And, frankly, when it takes 10+ hours to gain a single level, I'm out.

    It takes a lot more than 10 hours the higher you go.

    59-60 is over 200 hours in Korea (and they have much faster XP curve than us)

    To get 53-54 you're looking at around 40+ hours most likely. 

    Just do better research on end-game leveling next time hopefully. The end game grind is real.

    But really the goal is to get to 56 and then stop as that's all you need for awakening.
  • Deth70Deth70 Member UncommonPosts: 12


    Great review, Bill. I'm more tempted than ever to try the game now!



    Go for it disregard the people crying its a solid game and alot of fun see you in game!
  • HJ-NavarreHJ-Navarre Hero's Journey GMMember UncommonPosts: 40
    This is the very best MMORPG to have been released in years.. maybe ever. I am feeling love for it I haven't felt since UO, DAoC, and MUDs before that. Very EVE-esque in its complexity. Love it.
  • toolaktoolak Member UncommonPosts: 154
    Sorry. AA burned my bridges with Korean mmos. Cash money to upgrade end game gear to remain competitive is just such bs. As for the score I enjoy the reviews here on mmorpg but I ignore the scores. Half the reviewers get comp for the reviews and the other half (cough Suzie cough cough) let their personal feelings get in the way of an unbiased review score.
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    toolak said:
    Sorry. AA burned my bridges with Korean mmos. Cash money to upgrade end game gear to remain competitive is just such bs. As for the score I enjoy the reviews here on mmorpg but I ignore the scores. Half the reviewers get comp for the reviews and the other half (cough Suzie cough cough) let their personal feelings get in the way of an unbiased review score.
     BDO doesn't do gear the same way as AA, you don't need to purchase anything to upgrade to +15, it just takes time grinding, or making silver to purchase it from the player market from someone who did grind it.  Cash shop items are all cosmetic items although they add small bonuses, non of them are needed to do max damage at max level. Most people see cosmetic horse armor in the cash shop and assume that it's the same as real horse armor, it's not.  Many people doing their "reviews" after hitting level 15 are once again truly doing a disservice to the game community. Even many players who rushed to max level hardly understand the game.
  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    I have to agree with a lot of posters here... I am not seeing it! I am a level 20 warrior and I have lodging and some workers and while it all sounds good in theory, it's just not that fun. The game at least for me, seems like a less fun version of Archeage with more unenjoyable things to do.

    I mean do people really find sending workers out to gather materials fun? Is it really fun to have to worry about feeding said workers? Is afk fishing really something that should be on the selling list for a game?

    Don't know about anyone else but I am extremely let down with BDO.
  • Spankster77Spankster77 Member UncommonPosts: 487
    edited April 2016

    Mardukk said:

    Revolutionary game. Couldn't agree more with the review. However there are a great deal of people rushing to grind level and gear while ignoring all of the rest of the systems in the game. They then come to these forums and bitch about the game. That's a you problem.



    Complainers, have fun returning to your linear quest hub themeparks. Where all there is to do is quest, instance dungeon instance pvp with a shallow tacked crafting system.



    As opposed to what? Sitting on a click screen and sending workers out to gather materials so you can sit on another click screen and have more workers use the materials? Creating a path so you can afk and walk circles around the path to get more endurance? AFK fishing?

    Yes there is a ton to do, but that doesn't mean there is a ton of fun things to do.
    P.S. - people mock themeparks but I would rather 2 or 3 really engaging things to do as opposed to 15 meh things.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,011

    As opposed to what? Sitting on a click screen and sending workers out to gather materials so you can sit on another click screen and have more workers use the materials? Creating a path so you can afk and walk circles around the path to get more endurance? AFK fishing?
    As opposed to grinding "kill 10 rats" and "bring me 20 boar testicles" quests you don't even read the text of anymore...
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Jean-Luc_Picard said:
    As opposed to grinding "kill 10 rats" and "bring me 20 boar testicles" quests you don't even read the text of anymore...
    Because BDO does not have any of those, right...?
  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat Member UncommonPosts: 316
    It's difficult to even determine how "popular" the game actually is when BDO encourages 24/7 AFK play because of all the grinding players have to do (auto looping to AFK level horses for example). I guess it makes the servers look full. But how many people are actually actively playing the game?
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,677
    It's difficult to even determine how "popular" the game actually is when BDO encourages 24/7 AFK play because of all the grinding players have to do (auto looping to AFK level horses for example). I guess it makes the servers look full. But how many people are actually actively playing the game?
    Hardly. If people care enough about the game to constantly keep their computers running, it's fair to say they're pretty invested in it. AFK features or not, if a game doesn't interest me, I won't be wasting my CPU resources on it.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,213
    There is a shallow driving force that has most gamer's playing games for the wrong reasons......to attain end level.
    When i game i couldn't car less about the levels but if your game is going to use levels,each and every level had better feel important and not just a level number and this is where BDO fails as usual,NONE of the levels feel important.
    My biggest peeve and total turnoff is when a developer is too damn daum cheap to put even the most obvious asset into the game ...AMMO for the Archer.When i see the most obvious laziness and cheapness whcich btw should also be a crafting item,i just think this developer cannot possibly make a good game.

    Instead i got the feeling the entire design was there to control the rmt input on the game but did so by removing the human element.None the less i can't look past the fact there is no ammo,it says AMATEUR hour developer.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SmokeysongSmokeysong Member UncommonPosts: 247
    In my opinion no game that calls itself an "MMORPG" should be easy to get into. It should be a rich, persistent world filled with things that keep you interested in it by providing you with a lot of varied things to do. Combat should be complex enough to take time to master, and varied enough that even when mastered it is still interesting and fun to do. Rushing to a level cap shouldn't be a thing.

    I have taken to calling most games that make some kind of claim to be in the genre "MMOGs" (because "MMO" seems incomplete to me). They are multi-player, they are online, and they might even be good games, but they are not MMORPGs. I thought that way about W0W when I started playing it in 2005 (and it has become even less of an RPG since that time), and that's how I think about most of the ones that have been released since then.

    I'll repeat for those that aren't paying attention: I'm not saying games like WoW aren't good games (I've certainly played it long enough to prove that), I'm saying they aren't part of the genre as it was created and not what I want from that genre. It's very good to have a game like BDO come along and fill the void. Perfect? There are no perfect games, they're all flawed in some way, but BDO, for me, gets enough right that I'll forgive those flaws. I'm not telling anyone they "should" like the game; it isn't for everyone. And it doesn't pretend to be. It's for the type of player that wants a richer experience in a persistent world, and if you aren't that, happily there are other games you can enjoy. Which is a good thing. :)

    Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall

  • ITPalgITPalg Member UncommonPosts: 314
    max character since playing of day 1 of soft launch except for 2 days not logging in, is level 19, because of all the life skills I have been doing and avoiding combat as much as possible (only killing things for meat mostly, etc); fishing for my cat, and cooking for one character; farming/alchemy for another; metal worker / gatherer for anothre, and two other characters for misc uses.

    twitch.tv/itpaladin
    @ITPalg
    YouTube: ITPalGame

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Wizardry said:
    There is a shallow driving force that has most gamer's playing games for the wrong reasons......to attain end level.
    When i game i couldn't car less about the levels but if your game is going to use levels,each and every level had better feel important and not just a level number and this is where BDO fails as usual,NONE of the levels feel important.
    My biggest peeve and total turnoff is when a developer is too damn daum cheap to put even the most obvious asset into the game ...AMMO for the Archer.When i see the most obvious laziness and cheapness whcich btw should also be a crafting item,i just think this developer cannot possibly make a good game.

    Instead i got the feeling the entire design was there to control the rmt input on the game but did so by removing the human element.None the less i can't look past the fact there is no ammo,it says AMATEUR hour developer.
    You either have serious issues.  Or there is someone on this account playing a very extensive subtle troll.  If this is a troll account I applaud your dedication.
  • ShrikeArghastShrikeArghast Member UncommonPosts: 124
    This game is garbage. I played over 100 hours before coming to that conclusion: it's an train wreck after 50. Save your money.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    Realizer said:
    Bought the game... liked it for a while... got to 50 and completely lost interest. The grind goes from stiff to intolerable from there on out... but in order to PvP competitively, you really have to be 55-56. And, frankly, when it takes 10+ hours to gain a single level, I'm out.
     So I'm confused, people want a game that takes a while to get to end game, but then they complain about it taking too long once they get it. This is why there will never be a game that everyone will play, and why people dreaming that there one day might be, are living a fantasy. Some people in this thread have said it should take 6 months to get to end game. Yet people cry over 10 hours.
    There is a difference in leveling when you are actually doing something fun and meaningful, rather than grinding for a dozen of hours just to get 1 more level, and then repeating this process again and again.

    Nobody would complain on how long it would take to reach the endgame, if the journey would be actually enjoyable all the way through from start to finish.

    Sure there is a plenty of MMOs with garbage quests out there (BDO being one of them), but there are also some that actually offer great storytelling. Those MMOs don't ever feel like you're grinding to reach the endgame.

    The problem with BDO is that the endgame grind begins very fast, and only gets worse later on. People have been warned not to rush, because BDO might as well have the worst endgame ever.
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    edited April 2016
    josko9 said:
    Realizer said:
    Bought the game... liked it for a while... got to 50 and completely lost interest. The grind goes from stiff to intolerable from there on out... but in order to PvP competitively, you really have to be 55-56. And, frankly, when it takes 10+ hours to gain a single level, I'm out.
     So I'm confused, people want a game that takes a while to get to end game, but then they complain about it taking too long once they get it. This is why there will never be a game that everyone will play, and why people dreaming that there one day might be, are living a fantasy. Some people in this thread have said it should take 6 months to get to end game. Yet people cry over 10 hours.
    There is a difference in leveling when you are actually doing something fun and meaningful, rather than grinding for a dozen of hours just to get 1 more level, and then repeating this process again and again.

    Nobody would complain on how long it would take to reach the endgame, if the journey would be actually enjoyable all the way through from start to finish.

    Sure there is a plenty of MMOs with garbage quests out there (BDO being one of them), but there are also some that actually offer great storytelling. Those MMOs don't ever feel like you're grinding to reach the endgame.

    The problem with BDO is that the endgame grind begins very fast, and only gets worse later on. People have been warned not to rush, because BDO might as well have the worst endgame ever.
     The problem is that's your opinion, I enjoy the grind from start to finish, and after so far. Who are you to say what's fun for me? I'm sure there's a few games you enjoy that I can't stand. Yet I don't think any less of the people who enjoy them. I also don't think their game should be bombarded with trash talk to hinder the possibility of others finding something they might enjoy, had they not passed it up because of other people's opinions.
  • xcessive303xcessive303 Member UncommonPosts: 8
    edited April 2016
    Excellent review Bill, much more thorough than some other popular gaming sites. I agree while its not perfect, we need many more MMORPG's like this. I am happy BDO focuses on the journey rather than the end-game, that is why many of us started playing MMORPG's, is it not?
  • Kane72Kane72 Member UncommonPosts: 208

    DMKano said:

    Very fair review fland I agree with it while you are in honeymoon phase the game is definitely an 8.6/10



    However once you reach 52/53 + right now and are doing the end game gearing and PvP, it's nowhere near as good.



    Getting beyond +15 is a niche experience and the vast majority of players will quit before they see any of their gear getting to +16 even.



    Bottom line - very fun and very engrossing early on, falls off the cliff once you hit end game pretty fast and becomes a very niche game where a higher +number in gear means everything




    This may be very true, but for a $30 game and progressing the way Bill has, as I am too, I'll take 500 hours maybe to get to the level cap and will have enjoyed the experience. If I don't like it after that then I'll have had exceptional value for money already.

    Few people take account of the value for money they have had out of something. Take your family to the cinema for 2 hours of entertainment and that's your cost of BDO gone in a fraction of the time. If I hang around til level cap then I'm going to be pleased with my purchase (which I already am after 100+ hours.
  • ForgefeuForgefeu Member UncommonPosts: 112
    There is a lot of great things about this game but the thing i can't stand is this afk / online idle progression stuff. I hate it with passion and i can't understand why anyone would like a system that encourage this.
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited April 2016
    Ozmodan said:

    The game will be a ghost town within a year.
    The week after the game was released, the doom callers were saying: "This game will be a ghost town after the first month."
    Then they started to say "give it a couple of months and it will be dead".
    Now they are starting to say "within a year".

    See, friends, we are progressing ;)
    Just like SWTOR!

    Hmm, come to think of it, that game got a similar review-score from this website.
  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    edited April 2016
    I guess in some ways you can call me a traditionalist. But I tried the game and wasnt impressed.

    1) Dialogue is horrid

    2) I absolutely hate the combat. Im not going to remember all the combos and I really really hate the non stop attacks and click fest. There is no tactical maneuvering needed, its just a click fest. I dont see why this game is hyped for the combat being progressive - its the same thing but arcade like.

    3) I do like the option to do all of those things, but the game itself with the overly large weapons, arcade like combat etc turn me off to it. I will be happy to play Shroud of the Avatar as it has many of the same aspects but a combat system i like more.

    4) The graphics are ok actually - I think ESO is better outside of the armor. But I dont play ESO anymore either.

    5) The story is non engaging

    Enjoy the game all, im sure it fits some peoples play style and my guess is it is the 20's something crowd.

    If you are like me and enjoyed the hell out of Asherons call, Ultima online, DAoC, Eve, SWTOR, SWG etc you likely wont like this game. I did not buy it, did not trust it - I used a 7 day game pass from a friend. Happy I did.
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