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"Why are all the MMO's Dying?"

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,865
    Kopogero said:


    Where is my "virtual world" persistent, online game? We've had the tools and technology available all this time, yet the product is missing. I would gladly spend $15-35 monthly to enjoy such game with such depth and complexity. Truth is no one seems to be capable to deliver it yet...which shows that it's more than just $ in building these projects.

    If others can't enjoy seeing their life go by, settle and be pleased with mediocrity then that's what we will have.
    Just because some people like certain games doesn't mean they're seeing their life go by or settling.  Games are created for entertainment...  for some, entertainment is sinking every waking moment into a game with little to no end in sight.

    WoW turned into what it was.. not due to innovation or something extremely new... it turned into it because it was the right game at the right time.  

    If this was 2005 again.. and a game like... say.. .Wildstar came out....  I believe it would have been a much different experience in that time period than what it is today.

    It's not that there's a lack of worlds to explore.. or even content to take part in,  it's the lack of people wanting to spend time in them.  Once you've done it in one game..  each time thereafter you want to do it just slightly less.   Games you can play for a shorter amount of time and in small bursts aren't settling, they are just different types of games for a different generation.  WoW is still there.... people just don't want to play it anymore.



  • stimulus999stimulus999 Member UncommonPosts: 35
    edited April 2016
    the reason mmos are dying is greed. plain and simple. Game devs are farming you.

    They dont want long term players! Statistics show, the majority of money gained from a game is derived from new players. So you systematically drive the long term players ("Loits" or "LTs" as devs call em, and this isnt for long term, it means "loiterer" ) away , to make room for the short term players ("Plebs"or "Cows" as devs call em )

    Imagine you are in a restaurant. You get your food and after eating are sitting having a nice conversation with your table.Youve paid your bill and are now relaxing. Now, no manager or waitress is gonna come and ask you to leave, but the ENTIRE staff is sitting there thinking "comon you loiterers , gtfo so paying customers can sit down!" This is exactly how devs feel about the players. Its basically  "Gimme your money and go away . No? Ok well then we'll trick you into giving us your money. Wont go away tho? NP, we'll close the servers , and launch a new game tomorrow"

    And for newer games , they never planned on having LTs to begin with. FROM THE START mmos now are designed to get as much as they can asap and then gtfo. They blame it on operating costs , and then start a whole new game the next day ...if it was operating costs that tanked them then they wouldn't be able to start a new game the same week.
     
    You can sit there and say "oh they have to keep the lights on, and operating costs and blah blah blah". the truth of the matter is that they can use other business models to keep the lights on rather then monetizing a game to oblivion. Also cutting out things like voice over acting (those people cost crazy money, no voices should be in video games at all, learn to read) and high end graphics that only 5% of the population can even play on, would help. ALL the things that make mmos crappy and frustrating can be traced back to the greed of the developer.

    try it, next time some game mechanic or some decision by the devs in a game you play confuses or frustrates you, just think :" what does money have to do with this change?" and you will start seeing how greed is destroying mmos.
    ive been warned .lol
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Iwaylo said:
    Iwaylo said:
    Oh look nariusseldon again talking about how he thinks mmorpgs are to be played a month and move on. MMORPGs are meant to keep player occupied for longer period of time. Casuals move on after a month, mmorpg players stick around for many months playing with their guild doing end game content.

    Yeh .. an another random internet dude is talking about MMORPGs are meant to be a long term game again. So?

    Most players 80% leave after 30 days. So clearly 80% do not consider mmorpgs as anything than a short term game. You don't dictate how others play mmorpgs. 
    Gotta love when someone puts out percentages on the internet. They must be correct L O L.  

    Of course it is correct.

    https://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/understanding-mmo-retention/

    and I quote "As time progresses, retention suffers as only 20% of players who log in for the first time during launch month will log on 30 days later. "

    And let me help you with the math. Since only 20% of players will log on 30 days later, 80% will not. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Igguns said:
    What difference at this point does it make?  =)
    It makes fun discussions?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Kopogero said:


    Where is my "virtual world" persistent, online game? We've had the tools and technology available all this time, yet the product is missing. I would gladly spend $15-35 monthly to enjoy such game with such depth and complexity. Truth is no one seems to be capable to deliver it yet...which shows that it's more than just $ in building these projects.

    nah .. truth is no one seems to CARE enough to deliver it. If few wants a persistent virtual world game, devs won't risk their money on it.

    Personally i much prefer well designed level games, or single player open world games .. may be with some online elements. A persistent virtual world does not really add that much fun for me. In fact, it makes the world looks crowded. 
  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    Iwaylo said:
    Iwaylo said:
    Oh look nariusseldon again talking about how he thinks mmorpgs are to be played a month and move on. MMORPGs are meant to keep player occupied for longer period of time. Casuals move on after a month, mmorpg players stick around for many months playing with their guild doing end game content.

    Yeh .. an another random internet dude is talking about MMORPGs are meant to be a long term game again. So?

    Most players 80% leave after 30 days. So clearly 80% do not consider mmorpgs as anything than a short term game. You don't dictate how others play mmorpgs. 
    Gotta love when someone puts out percentages on the internet. They must be correct L O L.  

    Of course it is correct.

    https://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/understanding-mmo-retention/

    and I quote "As time progresses, retention suffers as only 20% of players who log in for the first time during launch month will log on 30 days later. "

    And let me help you with the math. Since only 20% of players will log on 30 days later, 80% will not. 

    Which is precisely why kickstarted MMO's are such a huge risk. Can you image Star Citizen with all the money it's raised only satisfying 20% of those who gave them money? Hell, you could be super conservative and say SC will have 50% retention and that still leaves like 700k people who backed the game likely pissed off and without the game they wanted.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Rusque said:


    Which is precisely why kickstarted MMO's are such a huge risk. Can you image Star Citizen with all the money it's raised only satisfying 20% of those who gave them money? Hell, you could be super conservative and say SC will have 50% retention and that still leaves like 700k people who backed the game likely pissed off and without the game they wanted.
    Retention does not account for people who sign up post launch. If you want to be accurate at least include figures outside retention rates. 
  • stimulus999stimulus999 Member UncommonPosts: 35
    man , kickstarter...i dont even understand how that is a thing.. but i guess begging is the oldest profession and theres a sucker born every minute
    ive been warned .lol
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    Every person in this thread will be dead in 100 years, just sayin.  WHY ARE WE ALL DYING MMORPG.COM? WHY!
  • iGumballStariGumballStar Member UncommonPosts: 106
    The genre is simply becoming niche again. For the coming future we will have more indie tiltes and perhaps a couple of passionate projects. The age of triple A MMO's with millions of dollars in production are gone though.

    From a personal perspective I don't enjoy playing MMORPG's anylonger because they don't have an identity. The vast majority of MMO's are centered around solo-play. Why would I play an MMORPG for the solo experience when single-player RPG's offer a vastly superior experience? I used to play MMORPG's for group content, running dungeons together and having some fun in PvP. Now, when MMO's are so solo-centered, I can get a much better experiece from normal RPG's, they don't need to be MMO.
  • FlintsteenFlintsteen Member UncommonPosts: 282
    imo increased fokus on soloplay are bad for player-retension.  Long time players usually stay because of the comunity,  because they like to do stuff with their friends.  Soloplayers leave when they have completed the content, where the social player have alot higher chance of staying.

    Lately the fokus have been on solo play,  and short term it's nice,  but long term i'm not so sure.  Getting people to try your game is hard,  especially with a new IP,  getting people to stick around is important.  When a solo player have completed the solo content,  then what's left to keep him around ?   When a social player have completed solo content,  then there's still the social aspect to keep him around.

    Solo-players needs new content to make them stick around.  Ofc. we all need content,  but social players will stay longer for the comunity, and if were talking RP they make alot of the content themselfs,  so it probably should get abit more fokus during development.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Why would I play an MMORPG for the solo experience when single-player RPG's offer a vastly superior experience? 
    Because selected MMORPG, like Marvel Heroes, have unique IP and good solo experiences you cannot get any place else?

    You don't think I play Marvel Heroes to interact with other players, do you?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    imo increased fokus on soloplay are bad for player-retension.  Long time players usually stay because of the comunity,  because they like to do stuff with their friends.  Soloplayers leave when they have completed the content, where the social player have alot higher chance of staying.


    Yes. So games are now designed to be short term games. If 15 hours single player games can survive, i am sure 60-80 hours MMOs can do. So what is the problem?
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    imo increased fokus on soloplay are bad for player-retension.  Long time players usually stay because of the comunity,  because they like to do stuff with their friends.  Soloplayers leave when they have completed the content, where the social player have alot higher chance of staying.

    Lately the fokus have been on solo play,  and short term it's nice,  but long term i'm not so sure.  Getting people to try your game is hard,  especially with a new IP,  getting people to stick around is important.  When a solo player have completed the solo content,  then what's left to keep him around ?   When a social player have completed solo content,  then there's still the social aspect to keep him around.

    Solo-players needs new content to make them stick around.  Ofc. we all need content,  but social players will stay longer for the comunity, and if were talking RP they make alot of the content themselfs,  so it probably should get abit more fokus during development.
    Don't know. A great deal of the longest EQ players are boxers...
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • duari91duari91 Member UncommonPosts: 34
    I currently work in the gaming industry (publishing MMORPG's), and have a bit of insight into this.

    Someone on the first page hit the nail on the head...Operation Costs. This is currently the biggest detractor from a publishing standpoint.

    Without dropping names or giving up too much information, I can tell you that an MMORPG with just 10k-15k active users is going to cost you about 90k per month. Yeah, that's right, 90 THOUSAND per month. Granted, a user count of 10k can net you around 200k if you know what you are doing.

    Take those numbers and scale it up a bit. Take FireFall, for example. They were equipped to handle probably 200k + active users on their game. They hit some hard times, and now have an active user base probably well bellow 50k. It costs less for them to maintain their game now, but they basically lost 75% of their revenue in the process, and can no longer support their staff.

    This is the ultimate point. These games hit one roadblock and it can decimate your entire dev/production staff. It is High Risk/High Reward, and lately it's been getting higher (due to the fact that MMORPG's aren't as popular anymore).

    For this reason, the game company I work for is trying to switch over to mobile completely (and drop all our MMO projects). They are over the high operation costs, and I dont blame them.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    duari91 said:


    For this reason, the game company I work for is trying to switch over to mobile completely (and drop all our MMO projects). They are over the high operation costs, and I dont blame them.
    I am not surprised. This is to couple with high competition in gaming now MMO has to compete with mobile, on top of single player games. 
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,193
    duari91 said:
    I currently work in the gaming industry (publishing MMORPG's), and have a bit of insight into this.

    Someone on the first page hit the nail on the head...Operation Costs. This is currently the biggest detractor from a publishing standpoint.

    Without dropping names or giving up too much information, I can tell you that an MMORPG with just 10k-15k active users is going to cost you about 90k per month. Yeah, that's right, 90 THOUSAND per month. Granted, a user count of 10k can net you around 200k if you know what you are doing.

    Take those numbers and scale it up a bit. Take FireFall, for example. They were equipped to handle probably 200k + active users on their game. They hit some hard times, and now have an active user base probably well bellow 50k. It costs less for them to maintain their game now, but they basically lost 75% of their revenue in the process, and can no longer support their staff.

    This is the ultimate point. These games hit one roadblock and it can decimate your entire dev/production staff. It is High Risk/High Reward, and lately it's been getting higher (due to the fact that MMORPG's aren't as popular anymore).

    For this reason, the game company I work for is trying to switch over to mobile completely (and drop all our MMO projects). They are over the high operation costs, and I dont blame them.
    Many MMO don't even need to be MMO if you're not using the MMO infrastructure.  
  • aim4theheadxaim4theheadx Member UncommonPosts: 14
    The community has been compartmentalized.

    PVE guys are playing FF14 , WOW etc.

    PVP guys are playing Black Desert , Albion Online etc.

    It's not like 10 years ago when everyone was playing the new hot MMO. People flock more to what they like. I think in general more people play MMO's now than ever , its just spread over more games.  
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    The community has been compartmentalized.

    PVE guys are playing FF14 , WOW etc.

    PVP guys are playing Black Desert , Albion Online etc.

    It's not like 10 years ago when everyone was playing the new hot MMO. People flock more to what they like. I think in general more people play MMO's now than ever , its just spread over more games.  
    and don't forget MOBAs, card games, shooters .. there are plenty other types of online games to play. It is great. 
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,071
    Sulaa said:
    Darksworm said:
    I tried Path of Exile and it was as dry as flour to me.
    If you were looking for an MMO then it is wrong adress as it is not an MMO.

    It is superb online hack&slash/ARPG though.

    In the future, keep things in their proper context and don't rush to look cheeky or smart.  That was a reply to someone else's post, not a self-contained thought.  I'm quite aware what PoE is, and it's still like watching paint dry compared to Diablo III, if we're going to make an apt comparison.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Darksworm said:
    Sulaa said:
    Darksworm said:
    I tried Path of Exile and it was as dry as flour to me.
    If you were looking for an MMO then it is wrong adress as it is not an MMO.

    It is superb online hack&slash/ARPG though.

    In the future, keep things in their proper context and don't rush to look cheeky or smart.  That was a reply to someone else's post, not a self-contained thought.  I'm quite aware what PoE is, and it's still like watching paint dry compared to Diablo III, if we're going to make an apt comparison.
    hack & slash APRGs are close enough to MMO these days. Hey, many here play those games too, so that should tell you something.

    I highly doubt nowadays, many players will insist on playing a "proper" MMO but nothing else. 
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