Both of the games lack the vision, ingenuity and design sense to ever create something that would intrigue me. You can recreate "Old School" and still make it relevant. These games are making old school look old school, which I didn't even think was possible (till now).
@Renfail ;I don't know how a group of guys making a much more old school game can stand FFXIV. As someone who came off FFXI i tried desperately to like XIV up until the expansion but its like the poster child of what i dislike about post WoW MMOs.
Are you playing it to see what NOT to do for your game lol?
To me, it is not about "old school vs new school" MMOs.
It is about my wanting an RPG, such as begun through the Pen & Paper Players' experience in building a character while wandering throughout a world with friends... But through my desktop computer... an MMORPG.
I am not interested in video games, twitch combat, watching movies, or whatever other nonsense people today try to say is "new school"... they are not MMORPGs... at least not to me.
I really want to dive back into an old school world again. I have no desire to be "chosen hero number 243,567" or forced through chapters of some story I want to escape from. I really hate that kind of gaming. Every new MMO I ever quit was for those reasons.
I want to play a wanderer, a character with just a old sword, boots, and a cloak (okay, throw in a loincloth for modesty). I want to travel and explore, and walk through the streets through some ancient metropolis, and seek out my own adventures.
Renfail, thanks for the reply about the message board.
Sounds great in what your doing for groups, I would like to add that it would also be nice if the poster has room in his posting to add text....With a more clear understanding of the groups intentions, players will feel more comfortable in joining the group.
It's kind of digging deeper into why players are hesitant, but many are afraid of joining groups because they may not know what going on. This could be more so with a new mmo.
I'll end up trying the games once they actually launch, I'm wary of backing games early anymore after The Repopulation and Starforge. Both look interesting, The Saga has some really nice looking aspects but at the same time the animations I saw in the videos weren't all that great, so I'm hoping those get touched up, or casting not having any animation at all kind of hurt the presentation, but I understand it's pre alpha or whatever so it's probably going to be alright.
So many interpretations of what this can mean that I voted No, but I'm unsure so maybe.
The only old-school MMO I played was SWG (pre-cu). I loved the community feeling, the sandbox, the class/template builder, the grouping etc so I would love to play that sort of game. However, there are so many things from newer MMOs that would put me off, such as action combat, limited numbers of skills, crap IP, crap art direction etc. Also, I'd much rather explore and grind mobs for XP than quest all day long.
@Renfail ;I don't know how a group of guys making a much more old school game can stand FFXIV. As someone who came off FFXI i tried desperately to like XIV up until the expansion but its like the poster child of what i dislike about post WoW MMOs.
Are you playing it to see what NOT to do for your game lol?
@zanfire I'm the only one playing it at the moment. I spend Mondays and Thursdays (evenings) there, and Tuesdays and Wednesdays in ESO. Rest of the team are in other games.... for example, @Eldaran is leading a small group of around a dozen of our community trying out Tree of Savior, and we've got another team member on the Phinny server recruiting, and a few folks still in Project 1999.
Mostly, I'm doing it simply to explore other games, new worlds, and the like, and just check out features in other games. Part enjoyment, and part research to get first-hand experience.
But it also has the added benefit of getting me alongside other players who are looking for what we are building, and it's part of my overall community building by meeting other players.
Can't say that I truly enjoy FFXIV, however. I find ESO to be a far "funner" game as far as MMORPGs go. That being said, there are some features I like...but the endless solo quest grind is not one of them
But I'm also there in those games primarily for the community. I game with a great group of people in both games, many of whom are waiting for our game, so it's worth disregarding the little things I don't like about both the games and instead focusing on the people!
To me, it is not about "old school vs new school" MMOs.
It is about my wanting an RPG, such as begun through the Pen & Paper Players' experience in building a character while wandering throughout a world with friends... But through my desktop computer... an MMORPG.
I am not interested in video games, twitch combat, watching movies, or whatever other nonsense people today try to say is "new school"... they are not MMORPGs... at least not to me.
I *abhore* action-based, twitch-based MMORPGs. One of the things I reallyreally dislike about both FFXIV and ESO is the need to constantly be jumping around and dodging the big glowing patterns on the ground.
That's why we're slowing things waaaaay down in Saga of Lucimia, taking it back to EQ1 and Vanguard style of combat, and a heavy focus on the group aspects.
Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc., those folks went on ADVENTURES together, campaigns that lasted months and sometimes even years. Not 10 minute "hard mode" dungeon runs =P
Renfail, thanks for the reply about the message board.
Sounds great in what your doing for groups, I would like to add that it would also be nice if the poster has room in his posting to add text....With a more clear understanding of the groups intentions, players will feel more comfortable in joining the group.
It's kind of digging deeper into why players are hesitant, but many are afraid of joining groups because they may not know what going on. This could be more so with a new mmo.
And yes I agree, NO DUNGEON FINDER !
Indeed, we plan on having room for folks to put some information up
We're also working on (hopefully) having the ability to have your own in-game journal...although it's a powerful thing making your own outside of the game. EQ1 binders, not to mention my stacks of D&D notebooks covering campaigns over the years. There's a ton of memories there.
I'll end up trying the games once they actually launch, I'm wary of backing games early anymore after The Repopulation and Starforge. Both look interesting, The Saga has some really nice looking aspects but at the same time the animations I saw in the videos weren't all that great, so I'm hoping those get touched up, or casting not having any animation at all kind of hurt the presentation, but I understand it's pre alpha or whatever so it's probably going to be alright.
We've literally only got ONE spell effect in right now, and two abilities for the Scholar. Also two abilities for the ranger, and two for the tank. We are only using basic animations. NOTHING is polished or anywhere near finished form yet. We've got a few hundred skills to put into the game still, and all of the associated animations, spell effects, and etc.
Long way to go in that regards so yes...things will look a lot better in the long run as we get deeper into the combat side of things.
It's an important note to remember: we aren't doing Early Access or showing off our internal tests to hype the game or ramp up interest for players with flash graphics and polish. That part of our marketing is still a year and a half or so away....a few months prior to launch.
We're keeping up with the tradition of showing people our progress through documentation, as proof of how a small team working part-time hours can still make a functioning MMORPG. We've done 225+ YouTube videos over the past two years...you should go back and see some of our earliest stuff. It'll make you shudder with how bad it looks
It's also an amazing tool for us as developers, and in tracking our progress. We can go back and see screenshots of what it looked like in early 2014, compared to what it looks like now, and it's a great way to be able to see the visual progress over the iterations and go "ok, wow, that's a huge difference."
What we're doing is showing people 100% of what we're doing. I don't use a public relations team or hide behind marketing speak: I tell it like it is. To my detriment, sometimes, as there's a core audience here and at other websites who dislike my mannerisms. We don't hide our flaws, we show them. We don't shy away from our inexperience: we embrace it. It's proof of what is possible.
So stick around, and watch the progress. Better yet, take a look back at how far we've come, and you'll get a glimpse into how much things can change in three, six, 12, and 24 months. We've still got until December of 2017 until we launch, so there's a lot of polish and change that will happen between now and then!
So many interpretations of what this can mean that I voted No, but I'm unsure so maybe.
The only old-school MMO I played was SWG (pre-cu). I loved the community feeling, the sandbox, the class/template builder, the grouping etc so I would love to play that sort of game. However, there are so many things from newer MMOs that would put me off, such as action combat, limited numbers of skills, crap IP, crap art direction etc. Also, I'd much rather explore and grind mobs for XP than quest all day long.
So many interpretations of what this can mean that I voted No, but I'm unsure so maybe.
The only old-school MMO I played was SWG (pre-cu). I loved the community feeling, the sandbox, the class/template builder, the grouping etc so I would love to play that sort of game. However, there are so many things from newer MMOs that would put me off, such as action combat, limited numbers of skills, crap IP, crap art direction etc. Also, I'd much rather explore and grind mobs for XP than quest all day long.
We're on the same page, @cameltosis. Action combat = ugh, no thanks.
We've got around 500 skills mapped out for our game, and we're implementing them over the course of this summer and fall of this year (the core of the combat work that lies ahead of us). Plus we think our storyline and lore is pretty awesome Feel free to read through some of the chapters and let us know what you think. https://sagaoflucimia.com/the-story-so-far/
As far as art direction, well, we're doing what we can to focus on a realistic fantasy / medieval look and feel. We're only using placeholder character models at the moment, just for the purposes of testing mechanics and the like, so it'll be hard to judge until we have our own in the game, but you can get a look for the world and environments and make a call based on that, I suppose.
We get a lot of players coming to us and making epic posts and emails about how they'll only play our game if we put X feature in or do something the way Y game did it.
We just shrug our shoulders and keep on making the game we set out to build two years ago.
We aren't building a game for THEIR expectations. We're building it for OURS. Those who share in our vision are more than happy to join and have fun with us. That's what the Early Access is for: players who want to help shape the game we're building can get involved and help us iron out the kinks and hone things into polished shape. We LOVE feedback from invested parties; we IGNORE feedback from people who aren't even part of our community.
Those who want us to make THEIR version of OUR game are very quickly shown the door.
Pretend the games released. Pretend they reached the quality of AAA titles. Pretend the companies/lead devs behind them have no questionable past.
Pretenders unite!
Pretend you're not an ... hmm... I'll bite my tongue... for now
Well at least I won't make a poll and tell people to leave out all facts, then make them imagine the game of their dreams and once they are focused on their fantasy ask them to make an "unbiased" vote based on that.
Just like I won't make a post such as: "Hey I want to insult you... hmm.. but I won't.. for now"
Pretend the games released. Pretend they reached the quality of AAA titles. Pretend the companies/lead devs behind them have no questionable past.
Pretenders unite!
Pretend you're not an ... hmm... I'll bite my tongue... for now
Well at least I won't make a poll and tell people to leave out all facts, then make them imagine the game of their dreams and once they are focused on their fantasy ask them to make an "unbiased" vote based on that.
Just like I won't make a post such as: "Hey I want to insult you... hmm.. but I won't.. for now"
Really a great contribution *slow clap
Well I hardly think what you wrote was much a contribution either really.
At least I stayed on topic unlike you two.
The topic is confusing a bias free opinion with a fairy tale scenario.
Pretend the games released. Pretend they reached the quality of AAA titles. Pretend the companies/lead devs behind them have no questionable past.
Pretenders unite!
Pretend you're not an ... hmm... I'll bite my tongue... for now
Well at least I won't make a poll and tell people to leave out all facts, then make them imagine the game of their dreams and once they are focused on their fantasy ask them to make an "unbiased" vote based on that.
Just like I won't make a post such as: "Hey I want to insult you... hmm.. but I won't.. for now"
Really a great contribution *slow clap
Well I hardly think what you wrote was much a contribution either really.
At least I stayed on topic unlike you two.
The topic is confusing a bias free opinion with a fairy tale scenario.
To me, it is not about "old school vs new school" MMOs.
It is about my wanting an RPG, such as begun through the Pen & Paper Players' experience in building a character while wandering throughout a world with friends... But through my desktop computer... an MMORPG.
I am not interested in video games, twitch combat, watching movies, or whatever other nonsense people today try to say is "new school"... they are not MMORPGs... at least not to me.
hmm .. mmorpgs do not provide pen & paper tabletop RPG experiences. I am currenly in a D&D campaign conducted by my son. It is not massively multiplayer (unless you count 3 friends + 1 DM massive). There is fast travel (3 days walk, and we blink there in 10 seconds), small group co-op player.
And when i play video games, i am interested in action combat, scripted events, and all the modern convenience. Whether they are called MMORPGs are irrelevant to me. I don't like old school MMORPGs that much anyway.
Comments
Both of the games lack the vision, ingenuity and design sense to ever create something that would intrigue me. You can recreate "Old School" and still make it relevant. These games are making old school look old school, which I didn't even think was possible (till now).
Are you playing it to see what NOT to do for your game lol?
It is about my wanting an RPG, such as begun through the Pen & Paper Players' experience in building a character while wandering throughout a world with friends... But through my desktop computer... an MMORPG.
I am not interested in video games, twitch combat, watching movies, or whatever other nonsense people today try to say is "new school"... they are not MMORPGs... at least not to me.
Renfail, thanks for the reply about the message board.
Sounds great in what your doing for groups, I would like to add that it would also be nice if the poster has room in his posting to add text....With a more clear understanding of the groups intentions, players will feel more comfortable in joining the group.
It's kind of digging deeper into why players are hesitant, but many are afraid of joining groups because they may not know what going on. This could be more so with a new mmo.
And yes I agree, NO DUNGEON FINDER !
However, I think the vast majority of old-school fans tend to forget why they stopped playing the other old-school games in the first place.
Nostalgia is a potent emotion - and it can certainly make people forget a lot of frustation and wasted time.
That way lies SWTOR, AoC, WAR, and dozens of other hype-disappointments. Except this time, you're doing it to yourself.
So many interpretations of what this can mean that I voted No, but I'm unsure so maybe.
The only old-school MMO I played was SWG (pre-cu). I loved the community feeling, the sandbox, the class/template builder, the grouping etc so I would love to play that sort of game. However, there are so many things from newer MMOs that would put me off, such as action combat, limited numbers of skills, crap IP, crap art direction etc. Also, I'd much rather explore and grind mobs for XP than quest all day long.
Mostly, I'm doing it simply to explore other games, new worlds, and the like, and just check out features in other games. Part enjoyment, and part research to get first-hand experience.
But it also has the added benefit of getting me alongside other players who are looking for what we are building, and it's part of my overall community building by meeting other players.
Can't say that I truly enjoy FFXIV, however. I find ESO to be a far "funner" game as far as MMORPGs go. That being said, there are some features I like...but the endless solo quest grind is not one of them
But I'm also there in those games primarily for the community. I game with a great group of people in both games, many of whom are waiting for our game, so it's worth disregarding the little things I don't like about both the games and instead focusing on the people!
Ugh, I know, right? @ArtificeVenatus ;
I *abhore* action-based, twitch-based MMORPGs. One of the things I reallyreally dislike about both FFXIV and ESO is the need to constantly be jumping around and dodging the big glowing patterns on the ground.
That's why we're slowing things waaaaay down in Saga of Lucimia, taking it back to EQ1 and Vanguard style of combat, and a heavy focus on the group aspects.
Heroes of the Lance, Fellowship of the Ring, etc., those folks went on ADVENTURES together, campaigns that lasted months and sometimes even years. Not 10 minute "hard mode" dungeon runs =P
Indeed, we plan on having room for folks to put some information up
We're also working on (hopefully) having the ability to have your own in-game journal...although it's a powerful thing making your own outside of the game. EQ1 binders, not to mention my stacks of D&D notebooks covering campaigns over the years. There's a ton of memories there.
Hola, @Panther2103 ;
We've literally only got ONE spell effect in right now, and two abilities for the Scholar. Also two abilities for the ranger, and two for the tank. We are only using basic animations. NOTHING is polished or anywhere near finished form yet. We've got a few hundred skills to put into the game still, and all of the associated animations, spell effects, and etc.
Long way to go in that regards so yes...things will look a lot better in the long run as we get deeper into the combat side of things.
It's an important note to remember: we aren't doing Early Access or showing off our internal tests to hype the game or ramp up interest for players with flash graphics and polish. That part of our marketing is still a year and a half or so away....a few months prior to launch.
We're keeping up with the tradition of showing people our progress through documentation, as proof of how a small team working part-time hours can still make a functioning MMORPG. We've done 225+ YouTube videos over the past two years...you should go back and see some of our earliest stuff. It'll make you shudder with how bad it looks
It's also an amazing tool for us as developers, and in tracking our progress. We can go back and see screenshots of what it looked like in early 2014, compared to what it looks like now, and it's a great way to be able to see the visual progress over the iterations and go "ok, wow, that's a huge difference."
What we're doing is showing people 100% of what we're doing. I don't use a public relations team or hide behind marketing speak: I tell it like it is. To my detriment, sometimes, as there's a core audience here and at other websites who dislike my mannerisms. We don't hide our flaws, we show them. We don't shy away from our inexperience: we embrace it. It's proof of what is possible.
So stick around, and watch the progress. Better yet, take a look back at how far we've come, and you'll get a glimpse into how much things can change in three, six, 12, and 24 months. We've still got until December of 2017 until we launch, so there's a lot of polish and change that will happen between now and then!
We're on the same page, @cameltosis. Action combat = ugh, no thanks.
We've got around 500 skills mapped out for our game, and we're implementing them over the course of this summer and fall of this year (the core of the combat work that lies ahead of us). Plus we think our storyline and lore is pretty awesome
As far as art direction, well, we're doing what we can to focus on a realistic fantasy / medieval look and feel. We're only using placeholder character models at the moment, just for the purposes of testing mechanics and the like, so it'll be hard to judge until we have our own in the game, but you can get a look for the world and environments and make a call based on that, I suppose.
We get a lot of players coming to us and making epic posts and emails about how they'll only play our game if we put X feature in or do something the way Y game did it.
We just shrug our shoulders and keep on making the game we set out to build two years ago.
We aren't building a game for THEIR expectations. We're building it for OURS. Those who share in our vision are more than happy to join and have fun with us. That's what the Early Access is for: players who want to help shape the game we're building can get involved and help us iron out the kinks and hone things into polished shape. We LOVE feedback from invested parties; we IGNORE feedback from people who aren't even part of our community.
Those who want us to make THEIR version of OUR game are very quickly shown the door.
Just like I won't make a post such as:
"Hey I want to insult you... hmm.. but I won't.. for now"
Really a great contribution *slow clap
The topic is confusing a bias free opinion with a fairy tale scenario.
Played: EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WAR, WoW, LoTRO, CoX, CO, GW2, FFXIV: ARR, AoC, Rift, TSW, SWTOR, TERA, BnS, ESO
And when i play video games, i am interested in action combat, scripted events, and all the modern convenience. Whether they are called MMORPGs are irrelevant to me. I don't like old school MMORPGs that much anyway.
I will be playing it now
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
I know a lot of folks were pretty excited by that April Fool's post.
But yeah...no....still fully PvE