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Just a suggestion
Aenra
Member UncommonPosts: 45
Rather than discussing concepts and mechanics here, why not part ways with 5 bucks, just 5.., and come talk about them in the Pantheon forum?
Even if the game's not shaped up enough for you to -know- you're interested, your curiosity about it signifies that you want something different. That something different comes at a cost. Show the support others will notice. And in return, come and see how so many of your questions are already answered/covered there. And trust me, most are.
Extra bonus that, let us be honest, this forum is not particularly oriented towards mature discussions now is it. For every one worthy comment, there is an abundance of ..other kinds.. that only serves so as to drown it.
And because, again let us be honest, i am mostly addressing younger people (or you wouldn't still be bothering with mmorpg.com) allow me to put it in your language: No, am not a fanboy. I am very interested, same as you. Difference being i made that show in a tangible manner. Even if it all goes south, we are still left with a statement. That there is an audience for these games. The paying kind of audience. Not the freebie type, conversing in random forums. The type of audience people bother pitching games for. Only we, the players, can make that statement.
Again, just a suggestion. Wish you all well and my apologies if by accident i happened to offend anyone.
Pride, honour and purity
Comments
I'm not 100% sure what your talking about ?
Who pays $5, and for what ?
Really sad to saw this comment, but it's true. In here, there are so many "critics" only serve purpose to bashing another game without giving any constructive feedback.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
While its true that a lot of bashing and immaturity goes on here, I find that we have been able to have some pretty good discussions here on the Pantheon subforum. Nevertheless, I highly recommend those interested in traditional oldschool MMORPG (with no lack of innovation) check out Pantheonmmo.com and decide for themselves whether they feel it worthy of their time and support.
What is Pantheon?
The Pantheon Difference
Pantheon Game Features
Pantheon Game Tenets
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
No offense meant whatsoever @Amathe, this is just my personal opinion.
While generally your statement is true, everyone benefits from visibility, there are two factors here:
i) the 'kind' of visibility. Negative, positive, how it comes out, ie the forum members themselves, how and in what ways they express themselves
ii) the fora it's most evident. One thing to see a game discussed in a mature, selective, subgenre (Pve or PvP) oriented forum, quite another to see it most discussed in an 'agnostic' cesspit. Not insinuating that this or any site is either, am just giving you the two extremes so as to make my point
Now with that kept in mind, along with this being just my opinion; if you think that to most people, seeing an MMO discussed the most in mmorpg.com is a boon, i would humbly ask you to reconsider. I would also ask you to wonder just how many people take the time, or more importantly, lol, have the patience to actually bother with mmorpg.com's forum postings in the first place. Not its "news" section, am talking about the forums themselves. And whether perhaps there's a reason for that..?
Either way, i was not advocating for an end of discussions.. merely for supporting those that can (potentially) make the games you want. The rest, questions already answered, community, etc, are just an extra bonus available to those having supported Pantheon. Not the actual reason.
No one, least of all me, would ask or even hope for an end of discussions. On any a topic
Pride, honour and purity
I'll admit that not all of the discussions which occur here are ones I would want framed and hung over the mantelpiece. But I think that in the end all sides of an issue have their say here.
Gaming message boards are not normally characterized by their strict adherence to Robert's Rules of Order. They are messy affairs. But gamers seem not to mind that overly much. And due to some recent house cleaning things are better here now.
I have it on a to do list to join the Pantheon site.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I prefer the forums here, they have a reasonable balance and I'm allowed to determine for myself whether someone is being constructive, or spewing nonsense.
I'm a big boy, I don't need "Nanny" mods keeping control of the conversations.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So please do not let your experience with other forums and moderators effect your opinion of our forums as it takes a lot to get a post deleted or closed on our forums. Our community is much more mature than most others and that shows in a lot of the threads and discussions on our forums, the only reason we have them locked behind a paywall is for a few reasons, but two of the most important ones are:
1) It helps fund the game and the money goes towards making Pantheon, purchasing licenses, programs, servers, website and helping support team members who work on the game.
2) It filters a lot of the trolls and toxic anonymous people from turning our site into a trash pit of negativity and arguments like you see on many others sites these days and allows us to focus on the more serious community members who want to help us create a game that we all want to play.
Anyone can read the information on our site for free but to join in, it will cost a minimum of $5/month for access to the general sections, which we feel is very reasonable considering that we are still in development and being funded by our supporters and angel investor.
I can assure you that I am a big boy too and enjoy reading debates and gathering constructive criticism from our community members
I wanted to add that while it was a nice gesture for Aenra to post this, it is not something we force onto people or freely advertise other than having a join button on our website for anyone interested in supporting us and having their say on the forums.
We appreciate all support whether it's financial or someone wishing us well from the sidelines watching our progress, it all adds up and helps motivate us to succeed.
I will start by saying that I only just recently started looking at Pantheon. I see a lot that is promising and I am carefully optimistic.
That being said, as much as I am interested in Pantheon I am reluctant to donate money at this point.
If/when I do give money to the hope of a game it is not only for the belief in the concepts presented but also to my belief in the dev team.
I will however, not ever pay to participate in a forum, While I understand that one benefit of this is to limit trolling and extreme negativity just for the sake of being negative, it also limits the discussions to only those who have a vested interest which has its drawback as well, including limited input to an even smaller subset of potential customers.
There can be many reasons that one may not be able or willing to fork over money to an Idea or a hope, including income, age, fear, risk etc. that would not necessarily mean that they would not contribute effectively in non monetary ways, such as forums discussions, presenting ideas or thoughts. I was honestly disappointed to see the $5 a month fee as had I been able to participate in the official forums that is where I would be. And when the time came that I was willing/able to give money it would have been far more than $5 a month.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with limiting the potential input whatsoever. This isn't a game being created for everyone, but that is exactly what an open forum suggests. As a result, you have so many different voices and opinions, a productive conversation becomes impossible. Thats just the way the internet is in 2016. Even among the more enthusiastic backers of Pantheon, opinions differ considerably.
As far as concern that Visionary Realms may not hear the thoughts of potential fans, theres no need to worry. While they may not participate on a daily basis, Brad, Joppa, Monte, Kilsin and probably others browse several non-official forums including this one.
I was a huge proponent of VG I will not go into details here why I felt .. well .. disappointed to say the least with how that turned out. which is part of why I am reluctant to give money to this game at this time.
While I understand that this game, like many others is not intended to necessarily reach a mass audience, hiding behind the "this game is not for you" attitude whenever someone disagrees with you accomplishes nothing.
I find it interesting that you in one paragraph state that "a productive conversation becomes impossible" yet in the next say "thers no need to worry" that the devs do browse here.
and if a productive conversation is not possible on an open forum than whay bother posting here if what you are looking for is exactly that.
Do I expect the policy of charging to participate on forums to change, nope. but at the same time it does appear to me to be nothing more than a money grab. in which case you are probably correct that is not a game for me. when greed trumps community I am out. and when community meens if you disagree with me than this is not the game for you then again you are right and I am out. thank you for your imput and I get your message.
I do not think the forum sub is a money grab at all. I am sick of games money grabbing, so I would be quick to voice that if I felt that way. I do understand why you would feel that way. Across kickstarter, here and other forums there was an excessive and unproductive amount of trolling and negativity in the past. I truly feel this is simply a filter for that. There was actually a poll asking the Pantheon forum community if they wanted to open up the site to the public. There was a strong voice against it from the forum community, I also opposed - I wanted a place to post that was free from all of that.
I am all for free speech. One of the reasons I love this site. My own guild's forums where I moderate, I do not censor. However, this game has had to deal with some immature, over the top, unproductive trolling that was just downright rude. I had subbed just to support the game. I do not believe everyone should do the same unless they truly want to and that is okay. The official forums are free to read and the dev team spends a huge amount of time posting here and facebook. Click on Kilsin's or Aradune's name and you will see how much they post here. Honestly its more dev interaction than I have seen in any other game I have followed!
However, when it becomes clear that a person is adamantly against Pantheon's tenets and design and argues for the sake of argument, I think stating the game may not be for them is a great way of cutting through the bullshit.
This subforum is not really representative of Pantheon, so it doesn't get nearly the traffic as the official forum does (or would). As such, trolling VR or Pantheon fans here is almost pointless. We can actually have some good discussions and devs can actually get something from reading here or occasionally participating. I find it worth my time at least, and look at is as an opportunity to continue getting the word out about the game.
This is actually a good sign to me that they actually considered, in addition to the fact that someone who would speak out against money grabs does not feel like it is.
While I did write this in response to you it was meant more as an in general attitude that plagues many game forums. and regardless of which side I am on in a discussion I don’t really feel like it’s a good answer.
I personally just prefer a different approach that may not be quite as direct but can also help foster a healthier community.
Just as an example:
If one person said there should be a very harsh death penalty and someone else said there should not be but most agreed there will be. The best answer in my opinion would not be “well you don’t like harsh DP then this is not the game for you” this statement belittles the view of the person without knowing all the facts.
For all we know this could be the only tenant that they don’t care for. It may be an extreme dislike or even hatred of the DP but the rest of the features may outweigh this con. Thus it is a game for them even if they hate the DP. Thus it may be better to answer with something like
“ I understand this is not a feature you like, but perhaps after you try the game you will find that the game is enjoyable despite this drawback for you.”
well something like that anyway.. , again thank you both for your informative insights.
I agree 100% though, that should be the first course of action. If only it could end there without the party who disagrees becoming an antagonist that then goes on a crusade to subvert and/or convert both devs and players alike to change their opinion or forever be stupid.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Can you see the posts without paying? Just curious - I haven't been to the website in over a year probably. I don't follow vaporware very closely.
(Before anybody gets upset - I consider any game that is pre-beta to be vaporware no matter who is funding it - look at Titan)
@Scott23 you can view a segment of the forum; general discussion (which is where the vast majority of the discussions take place), lore, crafting, off topic, etc. What's locked out is a number of subforums wherein specific Pantheon aspects are discussed in more depth, and/or concepts that are still in the making are explored further.
Whether this is agreeable or not, to each their own. But as i see the discussion having veered towards this (what do we pay for?), let me once more remind that this is a matter of approach. If you find it annoying that information is hidden from you prior to paying, no one's here to change your mind. If however you want to make a statement and put some money down, the above are a bonus. Bonus. Not the reason for which you'd be doing this in the first place.
And i'm not upset about anything
We have all yet to see what will come out of this and whether (assuming it does) it will be to our liking or not. As many regulars can tell you, i myself criticise plenty of its aspects. Even worse, i criticise aspects and have yet to see any official response. On any of them.
Which, again, leads us to my OP. You do this to send a message. You do this because for the past decade, no one has and no one will make this kind of MMO. Hence the low price, hence the gesture. I am not Brad's friend or acquaintance, nor do i care to ever be. I am not a Pantheon fanboy, nor could i ever allow me to become one; i AM however a player who is entirely ignored by the industry. I do what i can to show them i am still a financially viable investment. And i do that by paying.
Not by talking free speech to some random forum. No one notices free. Everyone notices benefit. Hard facts of life
Pride, honour and purity
The 'upset' comment was not aimed at anyone in particular - It's just that I have been accused of being unpleasant things by referring to unreleased software as vaporware.
The slight fee for posting access and the bonus forums seems reasonable to me. There is no such thing as free speech when you are posting on any companies website. Anyone that believes that there is has other issues
It is always easier to get enthusiastic about concept and pre-alpha before the game veers from your ideal. I don't mean this as a downer post, but I am just managing my expectations.