Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Code Rant

Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

 

 I love the fact that programmers are gods in their own rights, I mean we sit on the immortal throne of wonderful power and glory - hahah just kidding... actually life can suck so bad you don't want to live anymore.

 So here's my rant..... If I write a system, which is designed to allow the input of other systems, I would expect that my system would faciliate the speed of systems comming into my system, such that I am able to deal wtih the input of outside systems in a flexible and dynamic way.

 In otherwords, if I build a world that allows various areas to interact with core services, like database, chat, etc, I would want my environment to work well with varied approaches to player input. By providing a standard platform, I ensure that user's can interact with it and be able to see varied content as a "response stream" to the client.

 The thing that annoys me the most currently is that I have seen various major MMO titles, use things like Excel for data entry. I mean this is great, especially if you have an ETL system that can you integrate with, I mean Excel does have it's advantages, but seriously.....



 Let's take a system i've currently developed for a Major University, it allows the program degree publishers to have a high amount of customization, to the actual Application Process, I provide the flexibiity needed in both data entry forms customizations, but also in extending the system in ways that enhance the productivity of "specific goals and needs."

 Theres a lot of hard coded crap out there, and it bothers me to think that we are hearing all this, "You need a college degree to get a gaming job." When I, not even having the honor of a full education due to some dramatic life events.... I will not go into that... I am able to produce better products in my market, then many other companies. Why is that? Well I am not perfect, but I think its because I actually give a damn.

 The most hurtful thing though I've had happen, was think I was going to get with Sigil, and get my phone calls ignored, and then find out their company went under....

 Well guys, I'm 24, after my college time is up, maybe i'll find a company that will recruit me.... until then, well - the game tool suffering continues. (Oh and CRM, my god, please tell me these companies care about their customers :))

 OH and I do have a very good job, I earn almost 80k base, with potential for profit sharing.... :) So I am not exactly uncompetitive.

 

«1

Comments

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    If you are such a good programmer .. make a game that leaves the other games in the dust .. that would get the attention of any good company. .. or better yet make the game and go into biz for yourself and not work for someone else at all.   There are huge markets out there right now that  aren't being met .. waiting for some smart developer to wake up and give people everything they want in a game so they can pay and play it forever. lol 

  • saniceksanicek Member UncommonPosts: 368

    Yees.... wait, what?

    Sorry to say, but your post lacks any sort of coherence and although having a masters degree in system engineering so I understand all the technical terms and some of the points made, the overall message of the post utterly escapes me.

    Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
    +plenty of F2P, betas, trials

    Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
    .
    Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

     

     Thanks for your response, i'll take your feedback.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    well my biggest question is .. do you want to work for someone else forever? I mean while you are working for your current company .. could you not  work on side projects at the same time? I mean like  creating programs on your own  and marketing them? I mean as long as they aren;t related to your  job that should be fine? That way if you create something that is really great you could market it yourself and work for yourslef instead of some stupid company that just wants to milk you dry and then drop you?

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    Some cheese with that whine?

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,631
    Originally posted by ianubisi


    Some cheese with that whine?

    Nah.  But cheesecake...

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    crown royal straight and I'm all good =).

  • NetzokoNetzoko Member Posts: 1,271

    Does the OP have a point other than tooting his own horn?

    -------------------------
    image

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

    Yes - I think there are many great ways to enhance the content pipeline for quests and items, as well as other things that fit into a greater whole. Things that would be better then pure Excel, which some major titles have used, and could speed up the addition of quality content.

    Thanks

     

  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273

    No, his point is correct. The current mindset in MMO development is often antithetical even in the most proprietary-based architecture. In fact, you'll find the larger software makers in everything from database management (Sun and IBM) to multimedia production (Adobe) prefer and will use open standards and open source initiatives to make it easier for their end-users to modify and specialize their products. MMO developers are still a decade or two behind because often the developers that started the MMO movement were amateurs by comparison. The result of this is that there are companies developing standard frameworks, which are still in their infancy, which will make next decade's MMOs will be more uniform and portable across a wider number of platforms (for players, developers, and publishers).

    -- Brede

  • CleffyIICleffyII Member Posts: 3,440

    I agree with you original poster.  I also get all my inquiries for jobs in the game industry ignored.  I am also 24 and accept the fact, I may just not be good enough.  However, it always erks me when I see over and over again just crappy work done on jobs I applied for.

    image

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

    I have a strong feeling you are plenty good enough.

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

    Originally posted by sanicek


    Yees.... wait, what?
    Sorry to say, but your post lacks any sort of coherence and although having a masters degree in system engineering so I understand all the technical terms and some of the points made, the overall message of the post utterly escapes me.

    This guy makes an excellent point. It does underscore my lack of communication and writing skills. I will say that is a huge factor in getting a highly contested job. I will bow to his Master Degree and critism :)

  • paulscottpaulscott Member Posts: 5,613

    I see 30-40 year old, the kids left my house moms in college... why are you past college time at 24?  That's just one small sterotype to get your attention but you are seeing older and older people in college, it's just a fact of our times.  

    It's really just a question of do I want to get noticed the easy way or the hard way.

    I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25

    Originally posted by paulscott


    I see 30-40 year old, the kids left my house moms in college... why are you past college time at 24?  That's just one small sterotype to get your attention but you are seeing older and older people in college, it's just a fact of our times.  
    It's really just a question of do I want to get noticed the easy way or the hard way.

    I agree with you Paul, I am paying off the last of my debt, and will happily work on improving what I have to offer. I have learned many hard lessons and in some ways it has helped me.  However, I enjoy what I do, I love to create systems that let other great people design the dynamic outcomes they need, and yet faciliate a standard operating environment.



    I think part of my issue with the original post, was not that I have nothing to share, but that there are some gaps in my knowledge (as many people have this problem, not just me, but its pretty obvious) and it is difficult for me to share it in a coherent way. Plus I am pretty excited and my mind races :)

  • saniceksanicek Member UncommonPosts: 368

    Originally posted by Aesdyn2


     
    Originally posted by sanicek


    Yees.... wait, what?
    Sorry to say, but your post lacks any sort of coherence and although having a masters degree in system engineering so I understand all the technical terms and some of the points made, the overall message of the post utterly escapes me.

     

    This guy makes an excellent point. It does underscore my lack of communication and writing skills. I will say that is a huge factor in getting a highly contested job. I will bow to his Master Degree and critism :)


    I dont want to flaunt titles or whatever, I more like wanted to point out that maybe your post laden by a lot of technical stuff may be a tough cookie to chew for your average mmorpg forum visitor. And also you kind of jump from topic to topic sometimes without at first glance apparent reason that the next idea is implied from the previous ones. I think now that your OP can be boiled down to "I see how imperfect data handling in current MMOs is and have a lot of ideas on how to improve it, including a working analogue example, yet I encounter closed doors while searching for jobs in gaming industry, that sucks", at least I thats what it seems to me.

    As for the jobs, well, can't really comment that much, but I know that usually more than anything recruiters look on accomplished projects and how much value it brought. Therefore the more experience one has, the better, though in this rapid changing industry that is kind of a cursed blessing.

    As for trying to improve on things, in general, I think more often than not it is a lost fight. Maybe I am a bitter pessimist, but I see utter imperfection and disarray everywhere I look (but lets now focus on IT systems in particular). Well, lets list some of the reasons. Most of them are derived from the fact that development projects nowadays are large mamoths and the involved corporations are buearocratic colosses. The point of decision making. Usually the things that really matter on a given level, are decided on a level several tiers above, vast majority of times without any real understanding of implications for the most affected level/team. The cost/time/effort effectiveness. Often it is simply more effective to hire a couple of code/service monkeys in eastern europe or india than it is to create an IT solution. I have been witness of this on numerous occasions (myself often being the monkey for one task or another). The monkey may realize this, make its life easier by small scale IT improvements, but the call for greater change for the better gets lost on the way up or declined for some of the reasons listed her. Another, the unwillingness to change. Business loves proven working models. It fears novelty and associated risks. So there is always greater chance they will adapt an existing proven solution with known limits etc, than go and try develop a better one. Because that would probably cost money. While being somewhat risky. And the guy who gets to decide this doesnt really understand the advantages of the new hypothetical solution. he most probably has shares in the company and when faced by the decision just makes the safe bet. And the limitations of the used solution can be overcame by hiring a team in india to do some copy pasting anyway, its a nobrainer.

    Dunno, maybe you are beginning to see a pattern, maybe not, maybe I misunderstood completely and making a fool of myself, just returning from a night shift of doing some monkey tasks.

    Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
    +plenty of F2P, betas, trials

    Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
    .
    Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.

  • MunkiMunki Member CommonPosts: 2,128

    Originally posted by Aesdyn2


     
     I love the fact that programmers are gods in their own rights, I mean we sit on the immortal throne of wonderful power and glory - hahah just kidding... actually life can suck so bad you don't want to live anymore.
     So here's my rant..... If I write a system, which is designed to allow the input of other systems, I would expect that my system would faciliate the speed of systems comming into my system, such that I am able to deal wtih the input of outside systems in a flexible and dynamic way.
     In otherwords, if I build a world that allows various areas to interact with core services, like database, chat, etc, I would want my environment to work well with varied approaches to player input. By providing a standard platform, I ensure that user's can interact with it and be able to see varied content as a "response stream" to the client.
     The thing that annoys me the most currently is that I have seen various major MMO titles, use things like Excel for data entry. I mean this is great, especially if you have an ETL system that can you integrate with, I mean Excel does have it's advantages, but seriously.....



     Let's take a system i've currently developed for a Major University, it allows the program degree publishers to have a high amount of customization, to the actual Application Process, I provide the flexibiity needed in both data entry forms customizations, but also in extending the system in ways that enhance the productivity of "specific goals and needs."
     Theres a lot of hard coded crap out there, and it bothers me to think that we are hearing all this, "You need a college degree to get a gaming job." When I, not even having the honor of a full education due to some dramatic life events.... I will not go into that... I am able to produce better products in my market, then many other companies. Why is that? Well I am not perfect, but I think its because I actually give a damn.
     The most hurtful thing though I've had happen, was think I was going to get with Sigil, and get my phone calls ignored, and then find out their company went under....
     Well guys, I'm 24, after my college time is up, maybe i'll find a company that will recruit me.... until then, well - the game tool suffering continues. (Oh and CRM, my god, please tell me these companies care about their customers :))
     OH and I do have a very good job, I earn almost 80k base, with potential for profit sharing.... :) So I am not exactly uncompetitive.
     
    Simple, excell takes no development time. Everyone knows how to use it. Its cheap and it works.

    Id go as far as oo say 90% of the business word uses horribly outdated technology. Large business out there are still maintaining legacy code writted 20 years ago.

    image
    after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...

  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose Member Posts: 1,558

    OP Watch all of this:

    http://www.researchchannel.org/prog/displayevent.aspx?rID=19812&fID=569

    Things are not as easy as some people believe.

  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25
    I know this thread is old. I've reflected on things since then. I'm learning now to find the joy in the things I love the most. Games like Everquest gave me reason. I then entered the work force, wanting to apply specific skills to eventually work for the companies I loved. I found sometimes I lacked what the recruiters wanted.

    Now I'm going back to the beginning, searching for deeper understanding in the paintings, drawing and etches of creatures, feelings and thoughts, places and wonder. The day I've searched my soul and found the true reasons I love games, developing myself first, I can then work on games that might matter to other people as well. I also find skills you would gain in higher education to be more valuable, even Mathematics - has many concepts which feel connected to a larger meaning that makes them even more important to me.

    Good luck to all working on games or anything else. 


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,098
    edited March 2016

    If you are such a good programmer .. make a game that leaves the other games in the dust .. that would get the attention of any good company. .. or better yet make the game and go into biz for yourself and not work for someone else at all.   There are huge markets out there right now that  aren't being met .. waiting for some smart developer to wake up and give people everything they want in a game so they can pay and play it forever. lol 

    I think he is talking about the "systems" not about making an entire game which is not a one person job.

    First you need a good game engine then you need artists and programmers ,networkers tons of positions needed.

    Designing a game would be considered the Producer or Directer or in reality the money bags,whomever is funding it.There lies the real problem with game design,it is ALWAYS about money and not about passion for the game.
    I personally feel if i had charge of a game i could make a game 300% better than anything on the market but at my age and time in life,i have no desire to even go there.
    I believe in a theory ,if you cannot afford to or do your idea justice,then you shouldn't even try,you'll only end up with a half assed product.That is another problem area,MOST like 99.9% of game developers should NOT be designing games,they cannot afford it ,do not have the manpower and in many cases are just not smart enough outside their  little box of C++ or Python or whatever code.
    it takes an all around passionate and skilled gamer to understand what it takes to make a great game and great systems,simply having the technical knowledge is not nearly good enough.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Off the shelf systems are often poorly optimized but they promise to be cheap and quick. Unfortunately they're not very flexible. Ask the people who made Star Wars the Old Republic about that one.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Aesdyn2 said:

     The most hurtful thing though I've had happen, was think I was going to get with Sigil, and get my phone calls ignored, and then find out their company went under....

     Well guys, I'm 24, after my college time is up, maybe i'll find a company that will recruit me...



  • IwayloIwaylo Member UncommonPosts: 174
    when i was in collage i was ALWAYS the youngest one, people would usually be 10 years over me Lol. so you can still do collage lmao with that earning what stops you. I work as programmer atm but not for games i do agree that they are being lazy on the coding and make the same shit without the joy and desire to make good game, the goal of producing games now is to cash grab from it and move to next project.
  • Aesdyn2Aesdyn2 Member UncommonPosts: 25
    edited March 2016
    I'm working on a framework of "Know" that will teach concepts and allow development of games. It is far more rewarding to me. It will take me a few years to complete. I found learning to be much fun. Exploring the possible ways things can be - making something tangible with it. Outside of survival, shouldn't we try to have fun? 

    It will support Windows and possibly Linux at some point. If anyone is interested in following it - let me know.

    Here is a link to my blog. http://knowframwork.blogspot.com/

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
    edited March 2016
     
Sign In or Register to comment.