Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

I found this to actually be an intelligent discussion.

1235

Comments

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220

    Brenics said:


    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
    Weird I could of sworn we were on a site for MMORPG's. Amazing!

    Oh can you ever type something without an attack in it? 
    Yeah this game is no longer exclusively about MMORPGS much to my disappointment. 

    Stop writing comments that are so needing of attack for their lack of facts/point/value/etc... and I will gladly stop attacking them.

    If your arguments are not up to withstanding attack then do not make them in the first place. 


  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    edited March 2016
    Shodanas said:

    Lets not veer off-topic though, because I sense the jail overlay coming towards my avatar picture. Let us get back on topic. 
    Unfortunately some folks are immune no matter how many times they derail a thread. Anyway, back to the topic of discussion!

    I think were all on the same page in that, when you create a miserable work environment and creative folks aren't happy, creativity and production suffer. All the murals and 5000$ espresso machines aren't going to change that.  Which takes us back to the topic of how Robers has created a miserable work environment for his employees as stated by David Jennison - former lead character designer for Star Citizen.
     
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Shodanas said:

    Lets not veer off-topic though, because I sense the jail overlay coming towards my avatar picture. Let us get back on topic. 
    I think were all on the same page in that, when you create a miserable work environment and creative folks aren't happy, creativity and production suffer. All the murals and 5000$ espresso machines aren't going to change that.  Which takes us back to the topic of how Robers has created a miserable work environment for his employees as stated by David Jennison - former lead character designer for Star Citizen.
    5 pages disagree with your premise. Please don't try such a low tactic as trying to ignore the rest of the thread to try and claim some moral victory when there hasn't been one, on either side. 
  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    edited March 2016
    Shodanas said:

    Lets not veer off-topic though, because I sense the jail overlay coming towards my avatar picture. Let us get back on topic. 
    I think were all on the same page in that, when you create a miserable work environment and creative folks aren't happy, creativity and production suffer. All the murals and 5000$ espresso machines aren't going to change that.  Which takes us back to the topic of how Robers has created a miserable work environment for his employees as stated by David Jennison - former lead character designer for Star Citizen.
    5 pages disagree with your premise. Please don't try such a low tactic as trying to ignore the rest of the thread to try and claim some moral victory when there hasn't been one, on either side. 
    Actually, the very core of the topic is that according to David Jennison former lead character designer for Star Citizen, Chris Roberts created a poor working environment due to his poor decision making and poor choice of team leadership.  Here is the link so you can review it again.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3lyfb1/david_jennison_former_lead_character_artist_in/

     
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220

    I think were all on the same page in that
    What You said...


    5 pages disagree with your premise.  
    What I said.

    We are NOT ALL on the same page, hence 5 pages of discussion.

    Again, stop trying to deflect the discussion by trying to push your agenda onto the topic when, as has been pointed out in various places by various posts, the topic is very much up for debate.

    That the guy might just be a disgruntled employee or it might all be true. If the guy had a problem he should have brought it to tribunal and not be so unprofessional by writing and releasing this information. 

    But please don't dismiss 5 pages of discussion, it is very disingenuous. 
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939

    Brenics said:


    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
    Weird I could of sworn we were on a site for MMORPG's. Amazing!

    Oh can you ever type something without an attack in it? 
    Yeah this game is no longer exclusively about MMORPGS much to my disappointment. 

    Stop writing comments that are so needing of attack for their lack of facts/point/value/etc... and I will gladly stop attacking them.

    If your arguments are not up to withstanding attack then do not make them in the first place. 


    Clearly a lot of others believe SC is an MMO!

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/14268/star-citizen-mmo-or-not-clear-answer-please

    So guess you are confused about the game you are defending. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    edited March 2016

    I think were all on the same page in that
    What You said...


    5 pages disagree with your premise.  
    What I said.

    We are NOT ALL on the same page, hence 5 pages of discussion.

    Again, stop trying to deflect the discussion by trying to push your agenda onto the topic when, as has been pointed out in various places by various posts, the topic is very much up for debate.

    That the guy might just be a disgruntled employee or it might all be true. If the guy had a problem he should have brought it to tribunal and not be so unprofessional by writing and releasing this information. 

    But please don't dismiss 5 pages of discussion, it is very disingenuous. 
    I should inform you that it has been proven a FACT that David Jennison did not write that letter to release it to the public. He wrote it and sent it to fellow co-workers before he left the company as to why he was leaving. After he had left it was leaked to the public. It was verified by multiple sources that he did not want that to go public. He also had Derek Smart remove the copy of it from his blog as well.

    OK, i realized I just used the D-word so lets not turn this into a DS discussion just because I mentioned his name.

    Here is an article written about the letter. At the end, the author put up an update saying  the following:

    UPDATE: We had incorrectly attributed this letter to Jennison's LinkedIn page, but he contacted us to clear up the matter and confirm it was a leak. We apologise for any confusion.

    http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/news/departing-designer-sheds-dim-light-on-cigs-corporate-culture,409742

     
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Brenics said:

    Brenics said:


    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
    Weird I could of sworn we were on a site for MMORPG's. Amazing!

    Oh can you ever type something without an attack in it? 
    Yeah this game is no longer exclusively about MMORPGS much to my disappointment. 

    Stop writing comments that are so needing of attack for their lack of facts/point/value/etc... and I will gladly stop attacking them.

    If your arguments are not up to withstanding attack then do not make them in the first place. 


    Clearly a lot of others believe SC is an MMO!

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/14268/star-citizen-mmo-or-not-clear-answer-please

    So guess you are confused about the game you are defending. 
    Are you being dense on purpose?

    Where did I say SC was not an MMO? 

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220

    A topic that is no longer discussion worthy as so many people have stated here that regardless of what kind of working environment CR created it doesn't matter as the industry wide "Game Making Cabal" will destroy the careers of anyone who speaks out against mistreatment. So nothing will ever change. So to me this means anyone in the gaming industry who works under someone else can only expect mistreatment with no recourse to the law at all. And when any of us hear the horror stories we apparently are supposed to just shrug and think "Well that's just how things go in the game making industry." Honestly it makes me wonder why any sane person would want a job making games at all if the business is so toxic and totalitarian.
    I worked for a while at EA and got to know a few of the developers. I certainly cannot comment on ALL developers but certainly from the ones I spoke to the environment itself is very difficult. Long hours, tight deadlines and when it comes to crunch time no semblance of any normal life for long duration's. The guys I got to know where coming up to a release time for their new game and they were literally doing 20 hour days for 6-8 weeks to meet deadlines. As they put it "the job isn't for everyone and you have to love what you do and put up with the bad stuff so you can put your name on the finished product".

    I guess you either put up with it or leave. 

    It is not unique to the industry though. I know some estate agents that do 16 hours a day 6 days a week but they do it just for the money not because they love the job. At least with game development you do it (hopefully) because you have passion for the creations you make. 
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Ok I really don't want to appear too critical but when you click the video link it should start at 51:50.  You notice how unaware they seem to be about answering the question of the female character models.  Then the guy on the left with what looks like very angry expression says all the models are being completely redone.  This video is from 2016, maybe as far back as 10-2015.  But anyways it shows someone doesn't  like the current models for whatever apparent reason.  The guy on the left clearly doesn't agree.  Yet the current models look pretty damn good if I might say.  Yet again you will not see them because they are being scrapped and completely redone.  ALL of them, not some of them.  There goes another year...
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,295
    filmoret said:
     Then the guy on the left with what looks like very angry expression says all the models are being completely redone. 
    The guy on the left with the "very angry expression"......

    Ahh, you mean the one who is smiling at 51:30,  chews his gum at 51:40, smiles broadly at 51:47, listens attentively at 52:00,  talks about the model rework at 52:10, smiles again at 52:30, chews some more on his gum, smiles again broadly at 52:35 and makes a joke about the "optional" wearing of pants at the CIG office at 53:00

    THAT guy with THAT  "very angry expression" ? 


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
     Then the guy on the left with what looks like very angry expression says all the models are being completely redone. 
    The guy on the left with the "very angry expression"......

    Ahh, you mean the one who is smiling at 51:30,  chews his gum at 51:40, smiles broadly at 51:47, listens attentively at 52:00,  talks about the model rework at 52:10, smiles again at 52:30, chews some more on his gum, smiles again broadly at 52:35 and makes a joke about the "optional" wearing of pants at the CIG office at 53:00

    THAT guy with THAT  "very angry expression" ? 


    Have fun

    I think yours and my definition of smilingly broadly might differ somewhat.

    I think we can agree he chews his gum, listens and then talks about the model rework at 52:10 by saying "all models are being completely redone", which earns him looks from half the people there and the rest just go blank face.

    He actually doesn't make a joke at 53:00 its the man in the money hat who does, but the obvious elephant in the room is now the info he talked about that was not planned on being said at all. The awkwardness of them trying to play off the comment like nothing happened is worse then if you just farted loudly and it smells like a dead skunk in a job interview.
  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    Well, I wouldn't say he turned into a very angry expression, but he did go from smiling to very very serious expression pretty quickly.
     
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,295
    Well, I wouldn't say he turned into a very angry expression, but he did go from smiling to very very serious expression pretty quickly.
    Its called "listening".


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Well, I wouldn't say he turned into a very angry expression, but he did go from smiling to very very serious expression pretty quickly.
    Its called "listening".


    Have fun

    or potentially realizing he just screwed up and is now worried his job is at stake
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited March 2016
    Well they obviously had a follow up question to the remodels and at 53:20 they elaborate a little more, and say its character model not ship remodel, but then the big guy with glasses says ships will also get remodeled eventually, half jokingly, but he obviously knows how things work there.

    So it depends on how you look at that whole exchange. I dont think they wanted the remodel 'leaked' and thus went into the cringe worthy exchange about pants. Then when they had time to compose themselves a little they took a follow up question addressed it directly and then to make it more lassaiz faire they claim that basically everything will eventually be redone. Which was their way of planting the seed that character remodeling was no big deal.

    But it all adds up this game wont see the light of day (if it ever does) until 2020 I wouldnt imagine. And the ONLY way it continues is for people to spend money on it. Either through ships, subbing for 'developer news' or buying whatever single player game they can throw together. The SC everyone dreamed of is a long long ways off (well the facsimile of what they dreamed of anyway). If they dont raise salaries that means they need to raise 150 million or so just to pay people using their cost figures. Can they raise that much more? Maybe, if the single player game sells they can.

    But that is obviously a hyper conservative number, so if they have set the stage for that being the number you would more than likely have to double or even triple t to make it fit Roberts wasteful style. So while people can be hung up on the 110 mil they have made so far that isnt 30% of what theyre going to need to actually finish this thing.

    If a new and better engine or way of doing things come along then all bets are off because then they (well Chris Roberts) will want to use it. and how much (more) money will be wasted then?


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,295
    Kefo said:

    He actually doesn't make a joke at 53:00 its the man in the money hat who does,
    Money guy says : "Seriously, we have to wear pants ?!" at 52:55

    and the guy on the left answers : "Optional." at 52:57

    Some people would call this a joke ;-)


    @Kefo
    >>>>  and is now worried his job is at stake   >>>

    Ahh, the famous "I am sure he has been fired after that ..." argument. Which is based on what proof ?
    For someone fearing for his job he is smiling and making jokes quite a bit after that "serious incident" at 52:10
    He seems to be less worried than you are.


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    He actually doesn't make a joke at 53:00 its the man in the money hat who does,
    Money guy says : "Seriously, we have to wear pants ?!" at 52:55

    and the guy on the left answers : "Optional." at 52:57

    Some people would call this a joke ;-)


    @Kefo
    >>>>  and is now worried his job is at stake   >>>

    Ahh, the famous "I am sure he has been fired after that ..." argument. Which is based on what proof ?
    For someone fearing for his job he is smiling and making jokes quite a bit after that "serious incident" at 52:10
    He seems to be less worried than you are.


    Have fun

    Notice how no one laughs though when he says "optional", so not really a joke.


    I never said he was fired, I said worried his job is at stake. I couldn't prove it anyway but until we see him again in another video then you can't prove he wasn't fired.
  • AlumicardAlumicard Member UncommonPosts: 388
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    edited March 2016
    Alumicard said:
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
    Yeah I found that kinda unprofessional looking myself, not to mention kinda gay looking! But I'm not going all conspiracy theory about it. It is what it is: a Millennial trying to bring the cool factor up a few notches in a room full of fat grey hairs. Look at it like he's the expensive mural hanging in the office to inspire creative people into doing what they are being paid to do.

    BTW before someone goes all SJW up in here I am both fat (the 2 guys on the end fat, not the two in the middle :p ) and grey haired so you can keep that to yourself thank you.

    EDIT: I do agree with others that their were some awkward looks when the model thing is mentioned. Like "yeah dude it was mentioned internally but not meant for public knowledge" kinda looks.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Alumicard said:
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
    What message ?

    The way some people on these boards extrapolate assumptions out of the blue by using every crumb of optical stimulus, converting it on the fly in conspiracy theories is just mind-boggling.

    This goes far beyond of perceiving things or expressing opinions with a negative predisposition. It feels like people here are affected on a personal level about how SC & SQ 42 are being developed. As if their well being depends on it.

    I too have negative opinions about games currently in development. But, going in their forums and type stuff like this ? It would feel weird and.. unhealthy.


  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Ok I admit saying the guy was angry wasn't a good read.  But you have to admit the response was either irrational or irritated at the idea.  They explain the skeletons are new so the models have to be redone to fit the new skeletons "concepts".  Which is exactly what David had a problem with.  Continually redoing concepts instead of fixing and polishing finished models.  Which proves that article isn't just bologna because the video clearly shows that the problems are still there and not going away.  Which makes me wonder if they are trying to finish a game or just keep draining money and redoing models because after years of working on said models they still aren't finished.  This should not be excused by anyone.  How many years has it been and they still don't have a working skeleton?  Yea there is really no excuse for this at all.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,295
    filmoret said:
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Or your definition of "rework" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "rework".


    Have fun
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Or your definition of "rework" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "rework".


    Have fun
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
Sign In or Register to comment.