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I found this to actually be an intelligent discussion.

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  • Broken.ArrowBroken.Arrow Member UncommonPosts: 84

    I find it sad in this day and age so many people feel its their "deity of your choice's" given right to complain, but nobody seems to want to accept responsibility to actually fucking do something to make things better. Maybe that's the kind of oversight this industry needs. Less bellyaching and more doing something. Be loud, be proud, and yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!!" 
    I have nothing against you personally but your "ideas" on how to take actions are naive, infantile and absolutely out of touch with reality. You know nothing about the career suicide whistleblowers end up committing if they publicly out the nasty "deity of your choice", even with sufficient evidence to prove misconduct, misdoings and mismanagement in a court of law.

    Others have already filled you in on the bullet-points but one more point I want to add is that with a project like SC, where you have the elements of most committed and most deluded strata of society worship the "idea" of SC, if not Croberts himself...to publicly take a stand against all the misdoings literally will put your life at risk. Its still tame on such a sellout forum, where shills will discredit the former employee or spin remedy it to something like "annual turnover, everything is awesome". And the cultists will circle jerk it till everything looks like life as usual. But out there in real life, whistleblowers' lives are actually destroyed. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

    Thats a rather famous public example of how low cultists will actually stoop to. There are thousands of other examples of non-famous incidents which have resulted in whistle-blowers, journos and activists getting killed in broad daylight. 

    ---

    A proud User of [[Adblock Plus]], to block out all the bullshit paid advertisements (also read as "game reviews") spam on mmorpg.com. 

    ----


    I was banned for pointing out the obvious faults in a game 2 months before it released.
    Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,381
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
    Agree but the other problem even Erin can't fix, is Roberts has blown majority of cash
    Speculation.

    ** sigh **

    Any proof ?   

    Yes, you heard the same question a dozen times before and never delivered, but for the sake of completeness i ask again.

    And no, the Roberts quote with the "3 million per month" is NOT proof that he "has blown the majority of cash".


    Have fun


    Well, there is the 67 day mo-cap shoot at one of the top studios in its field.  As I recall that studio was doing the new Star Wars as well.  Not cheap.   There's also lots of A list acting talent.  Now, I know that was a stretch goal, and the collection of actors are pretty cool.   But it was a +1 million stretch goal, iirc.  Given Roberts real desire to be viewed as a Hollywood nabob,  there's no telling how much he spent on all that.   The mo cap companies charge by the second of delivered footage.  And then there's the rental of facilities, etc.   I've also heard rumours of further mo cap needed to fix up some aspects. 


    There's also the expense of all those much-ballyhooed contracts with various companies who were going to work on the 'modular approach' to SC development.   An approach that now appears to have failed, as they've all been dropped, and with the work (and re-work) being done in-house. 


    And according to Jennison, there was a tremendous amount of re-work inefficiency (and general inefficiency) related to Chris being Chris.  He's still there,  and still doubtless drawing a salary commensurate to his ego.  And Sandi's too!


    I personally have no idea how much money he's got left for SC.  However he's been pretty profligate in the past.  But fans of the game should really be buying more ships to funnel them more money for development.  It's the only way to be sure!

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Yep the backers better put up more cash if they want SQ42 to get finished. I doubt SC can ever get finished without another 200m in pledges. That is taking into how many redo's Roberts decides to do.


    Good luck, have a great day.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    bartoni33 said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    wait...micromanagement is a problem but investors should be worried about murals?
    If the investors (internet backers) never get to see the thing then yes it is. The mural is not for the investors (internet backers) benefit. Therefor no backer money should be used for it.

    I know you and others pointed out to me that pretties give other rich people hard-ons to invest their money in a company. That's fine. But no actual gamer backer money should be used to impress suits that are just looking to make a buck off of the game. The players and their best interests should come first.

    Let's be honest, they have enough money to make the damn game. They are just taking their time.
    internet backers aren't investors, they are donators.  They get no ownership in CIG, they simply donated money to CIG and trusted them to use that money well.
    That is true in a way. Internet backers are actually paying customers. Paying customers should be treated better than investors. Paying customers money should not be used to impress suits that are just looking to make a buck off of the game.

    Fixed and thanks!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    bartoni33 said:

    Paying customers money should not be used to impress suits that are just looking to make a buck off of the game.

    Fixed and thanks!
    How about on a good working environment for the creative process? Or should they all sit in little square cubicles and only come out when it is time to go home?

    It honestly sounds like you guy work in the most dreary and lifeless places.

    I can tell you I worked in a few places where the work was shit but because of the office and frill's I actually enjoyed working there even if the actual work I did while I was there sucked. 
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    edited March 2016
    bartoni33 said:

    Paying customers money should not be used to impress suits that are just looking to make a buck off of the game.

    Fixed and thanks!
    How about on a good working environment for the creative process? Or should they all sit in little square cubicles and only come out when it is time to go home?

    It honestly sounds like you guy work in the most dreary and lifeless places.

    I can tell you I worked in a few places where the work was shit but because of the office and frill's I actually enjoyed working there even if the actual work I did while I was there sucked. 
    Yes I do actually work in a dreary and lifeless place. As do most folks.

    I question how "creative" a person is if they need walls full of pretties and chotskies to perform their job.

    That last sentence makes me sad and a little angry at the same time. But that's my problem and I will not get into it. =)

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    bartoni33 said:

    Yes I do actually work in a dreary and lifeless place. As do most folks.

    I question how "creative" a person is if they need walls full of pretties and chotskies to perform their job.

    That last sentence makes me sad and a little angry at the same time. But that's my problem and I will not get into it. =)
    Sucks to be you then I guess because I have never worked in an office that doesn't have things like plants, pictures in frames, work place paraphernalia and nicely decorated receptions. 

    Creativity is often just the act of being inspired and it is harder to get inspired in a bland cubicle which is why creative companies have lots of 'stuff' to visually inspire their creative types. 

    And you would be suprised what free beers and snacks on a Friday afternoon on the company, some nice posters on the wall and a nice cafetiere can do for moral. 


  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    Such as ?
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    It's funny how the white knights don't just ignore the facts of this thread but they actually look to distract from them.
    They get paid to help close any negative threads. All about the money to them not the truth!
    That's because there are no "facts" in this thread, lol

    The fact that someone made an allegation does not make that allegation a fact.
    Only because you and other SC fans say there isn't does not make it true. 
    Actually that is true, as without first hand knowledge what is being said is in no way fact, it's pure allegation, for all we really know the "villain" could be the interviewee that is the subject here. Maybe he just doesn't take critique well as well as takes no responsibility for subpar work? That's as common as the guy who accepts no other input or acts tyrannical in their leadership. Anything is possible in a he said, she said circumstance. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    Perhaps they had posters on the walls too....
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    bartoni33 said:

    Yes I do actually work in a dreary and lifeless place. As do most folks.

    I question how "creative" a person is if they need walls full of pretties and chotskies to perform their job.

    That last sentence makes me sad and a little angry at the same time. But that's my problem and I will not get into it. =)
    Sucks to be you then I guess because I have never worked in an office that doesn't have things like plants, pictures in frames, work place paraphernalia and nicely decorated receptions. 

    Creativity is often just the act of being inspired and it is harder to get inspired in a bland cubicle which is why creative companies have lots of 'stuff' to visually inspire their creative types. 

    And you would be suprised what free beers and snacks on a Friday afternoon on the company, some nice posters on the wall and a nice cafetiere can do for moral. 


    I see the issue here.

    I've never worked in a office full stop. I am a proud blue collar worker. What you have typed about "free beer and snacks, plants and picture frames and nicely decorated receptions" seems like an absurd, frivolous waste of money to me.

    I'm just gonna stop there. This discussion is way off topic and will drift into socioeconomic areas that are not fit to be discussed here. As we don't know where the money for the mural came from nor the actual cost of it, this whole thread is pointless TBPO.

    As are most threads regarding SC.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 
    Try going back further, you haven't been around this industry long enough if the first game you bring up is WoW.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Brenics said:
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 
    Try going back further, you haven't been around this industry long enough if the first game you bring up is WoW.
    You brought up WOW first so is this talking to yourself?
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220

    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Brenics said:
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 
    Try going back further, you haven't been around this industry long enough if the first game you bring up is WoW.
    EH what? you brought up WOW.. AS well as included it in a best of scenario lmao.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Eh you said "best games" not best MMO's. Best MMORPG's imo were SWG & DAOC.. STill not made in a basement...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
     It sounds like some of you need new jobs, the last fortune 500 Tech Company I worked for had Nerf Gun battles on the production floor once every few days.  Our Management Team would get together once a month and play Humans vs Zombies, we'd also have daily Ping Pong tournaments in the lunch room, and daily Console Game tournaments in the game room. There were also "quiet rooms" with couches, plants, and bean bags for taking naps between shifts, and an on-site Gym.

     With all of that, there was still the usual employee factions. Ones who loved their jobs, and those who hated it. Even employees who worked under managers that were known for being "cool" and "fair", there were still complaints against them and employees who didn't agree.

     I've come to figure out in the Tech Industry there are people who are high function workers that produce great metrics, but are still the most vocal critics. I think it comes with the territory. In my former work, my job was starting new campaigns for tech companies that were rolling out new products. It became quickly obvious that the only way toward a cohesive team, was unfortunately through attrition. People who like their work stay at their jobs, and people who don't generally end up finding their own way out.  Whether that be from their attendance, work performance, or just finding new jobs. 

     It's also worth noting that on many projects you would have teams of people that are only needed for portions of work, these people usually apply for these types of positions, and they have their reasons for doing it. They usually pay better than full time positions, but they are only hired for a few months at a time. Once these people are done with their work, they normally have similar jobs already lined up with the next Company they are going to. 

     In the end having to re-do work is tough, but especially in the gaming industry. You find out quickly that you should never expect anything to work right after one try. Work needs to be tested, and re-tested, and checked by quality control. Then it gets implemented, and tested again, and again. Then you can let customers try it in small markets, if it works you can mass produce. After all of that, there's usually still bugs needing to be fixed ect. 

     It all takes time, and when you have a customer base unfamiliar with this process, and how these companies operate. It's very easy for them to be impatient, if people knew about, and pre-purchased World of Warcraft, and then had to wait 5 years for it to come out. You'd see similar to these conversations. Employees get hired, fired, and quit, it's how the world works. Systems, and code, have be worked out, then worked out again more often than not. When this process is transparent, it's more likely to have detractors. SC has become a personal project of fans, and now even anti-fans. The more transparency in companies we see because of things like Kickstarter, and companies being out in the public eye before having a final product like it used to be, the more people will figure out these things are normal, and happen more often than not.

    Also who do I talk to about getting paid for my posts? I want in on this, thanks in advance.  =)
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 
    Try going back further, you haven't been around this industry long enough if the first game you bring up is WoW.
    You brought up WOW first so is this talking to yourself?
    You notice that one word just before where I said WoW? Ok bye. :)
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    edited March 2016


    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
    Weird I could of sworn we were on a site for MMORPG's. Amazing!

    Oh can you ever type something without an attack in it? 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited March 2016
    Brenics said:


    Brenics said:
    I also like how you bring up non-mmo's. :)
    Are non MMO's not games?

    Stop being intentionally dumb with your replies, you bring the conversation and yourself down. 
    Weird I could of sworn we were on a site for MMORPG's. Amazing!

    Oh can you ever type something without an attack in it? 
    SC isn't even an MMORPG. This site stopped being an exclusive MMORPG site long ago.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited March 2016

    Its not Croberts and his minions who would play the negative role here. It's the people who sink their children's college fund, entire life savings and take out loans to fund the man's dreams, that will.

    Wow.. just wow.

    This goes beyond mindless hate. This is on a whole new, golden level.

    Best anti - SC argument on these boards by far. The rest of the SC haters squad needs to step up their game in order to measure up.

    Keep it up.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    Yet the best games minus WoW were made in someones garage or basement.

    Let that sink in for a second. :)
    I wouldn't consider WOW anywhere near the best of anything TBH. Secondly, Morrowind, Shenmue, KOTOR, Total War, SWG, Suikoden, etc.. were made no where near anyone's basement. 
    Try going back further, you haven't been around this industry long enough if the first game you bring up is WoW.
    You brought up WOW first so is this talking to yourself?
    You notice that one word just before where I said WoW? Ok bye. :)
    You notice the first use of the word WOW is in the post just before someone else replied to your post and 2 post before your comeback trying insinuate superior knowledge of the subject by claiming that their bringing up WOW indicates they do not have as much knowledge of the industry as you do?
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