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Soulbinding

ScummScumm Member UncommonPosts: 78
Watching the stream the other day, I noticed that when Monty died he appeared back in town at a 'Nexus'.  Check it out here:


I'm interested in what this mechanic is.  For anyone unfamiliar, EQ began with only a 'Bind Affinity' spell exclusive to casters.  They could cast the spell and bind their soul anywhere (except dungeons, I think?). When you died, you respawned at your bind point.  Melee classes that couldn't cast the spell had to rely on the casters to bind them, but they were restricted to being bound in towns only.

I'm not sure when it changed or what the reason was (maybe WoW was released?), but at some point NPC 'Soulbinders' were placed at the front gates to most towns.  Any player could just /hail the NPC and be automatically bound.  No more need to /tell another player and ask for a bind.  

Personally, I played a melee class in EQ and had to deal with asking for binds and running back to my body from town.  I still think that was a decent system.  It definitely wasn't as fast, but it gave players a reason to interact.  

We've been talking a lot about death penalties and corpse retrieval, but this doesn't usually come up.  What do people think?  How was it handled in Vanguard?  What's your favorite method?       

Comments

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Scumm said:  What's your favorite method?       
    In total seriousness, I used to soulbind whenever possible facing a large breasted female soulbinder. That way, when I died, the next thing I saw was something comforting. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ScummScumm Member UncommonPosts: 78
    Hah!  Not exactly what I was referring to, but my inner 12 year old admires your ingenuity.  
  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 166
    Corpse runs were definitely a pain in the ass.  As much as I would like to say I enjoyed running naked for an hour back to high keep, I didn't.  It was a huge time sink and often lost a group because of it.  Getting bound wasn't always an option.  A method of binding self-only (with cooldown or other cost) or the rare soul-binder (not in every zone) would make for a more enjoyable experience.  Not everything in those days was the best method, and this is (in my opinion) one of them. 
  • MwahahaMwahaha Member UncommonPosts: 126
    I like the way Everquest 2 handles death, and I mean current EQ2, not vanilla.  In each zone you have a respawn point, sometimes you'll have multiple respawn points for larger zones.  When you die you'll end up at one of these locations plus you'll have a durability hit on your gear and some experience debt.  

    I also didn't care for corpse runs.  Some people only have a couple hours to play each day and I'm sure they don't want to spend half that time trying to find their corpse or try to find someone that can summon it for you.


    Played:  EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WAR, WoW, LoTRO, CoX, CO, GW2, FFXIV: ARR, AoC, Rift, TSW, SWTOR, TERA, BnS, ESO

  • ScummScumm Member UncommonPosts: 78
    It looks like Pantheon might be doing something similar right now.  I would suspect that these Nexus obelisks are in certain zones and you either re-spawn at a chosen nexus, or the nearest.  I could be wrong!  Maybe a dev will drop by who can give us a brief explanation of the current system?  ;)

    I realize there's a balance between social-interaction and practicality.  Or in other words, a balance between inter-dependency and convenience.  This is one of those things where it's obviously easier for players to not have to worry about finding a bind, or where they are bound.  But without trying to sound dramatic, should we also have an NPC at every city gate to cast SoW on players?  Should we have an totem at every outpost that casts a complete heal?  Where's the line?        

    Also, this thread was trying to ignore the debate on corpse runs, item loss, exp loss, or all those other aspects of death.  I'm mostly asking that deepest of questions, 'where do you go when you die?'    
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 599
    edited March 2016
    Nice ideas scumm. /sigh. It's a topic very near and dear to Pantheon, since Pantheon is trying to preserve interdependency and community. Like you say, it needs to find a balance. Obviously, convenience is an necessary discussion in ANY game or MMO. RL and VR don't always mix well, so there has to be tradeoffs. And of course not everything is fun to everybody, so you have to concentrate on common things--to save time and money. How mcuh you focus on common things determines its niche status.

    My personal opinion is binding was a good system. At heart, it was player driven becuse players could determine somewhat where they were bound. It just needed more. Give us more binds. Allow melee to bind in more places. Allow us to buy bind potions, so we have to choose between spending money or socializing and asking for a bind. Make it the cost high enough it's a choice and not a copout. Allow us to pick which bind point we spawn at when we die. Also allow us to recall to our bind point with a 48-hour cooldown ability or something similar, for those occasions when it may be useful.

    I don't want automatic binds. I think that's boring. The key remember is PLAYER-DRIVEN. Allow us to decide where/what/etc. Open up as many places as possible so players have choices to make. One of the beautiful thigns about Everquests's system was bind pints could be unique to certain places. For example, the gypsy camp in North Karana. Only downside it didn't have a bank nearby. This increases is exploration appeal. I love that.

    If at all possible, even consider allowing players to share bind points with potions (or an ability) or an interdependency. For example, maybe wizards can allow somebody to trade or share a bind with someone else.
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    The Nexus is actually a Dev area and we can port to different zones using it (from a central room) but Death Mechanics have not been properly implemented yet so what you saw during the stream was just a respawn at the town "dev portal" and us using dev hacks to summon them back in the interest of time so you guys didn't sit around waiting for us to run back after every death :) 

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613
    I would enjoy a 2hour stream of a naked corpse run.... go die deep in a dungeon and get back to your gear naked. Can always ask the community for help..... oh wait, you can't yet. DO IT! ;-)

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • ScummScumm Member UncommonPosts: 78
    Thanks for the info @Kilsin! Sorry for making so many assumptions
  • RallydRallyd Member UncommonPosts: 95
    I really hope there aren't designed areas to respawn at, I would like to see the Everquest system, but maybe with what is left on your corpse dialed back.  I don't feel there is a good reason to leave your current worn gear on your corpse other than realism, and it can be too harsh because you may need that gear to actually retrieve your corpse.  

    Inventory + exp loss, as well as you respawning at the nearest major town you bound at, I don't think casters should have more rights than everyone else like in Everquest, they shouldn't be able to bind anywhere, they should feel the same restrictions as melees, town designated areas only.

    I also think that there should be soulbinders in MAJOR cities only, that you should be able to pay for a bind.  The price should be such that it is in your best interest to find a player to do it (if thats the route they take).  Also the soulbinders should  be located deep within the city, so as to make being player bound at the gates more advantageous and desired.
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,179
    edited March 2016
    I would like the ability to self bind inside major cities and have casters able to bind people anywhere on the world surface.

    edited for clarity.
    Post edited by Kilrain on
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    Scumm said:
    Thanks for the info @Kilsin! Sorry for making so many assumptions
    All good man, I know everyone is excited and with limited information it can be hard not to try and imagine what things could be like or take them for face value but I assure you once we start to release more information it will all start making more sense :)

    I can't wait to get all the testers into the game to group up and break things with! 

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335

    I was happy with the original soul binding system in EQ.


    Take that with a grain of salt, as I was playing a Magician and could bind myself.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • ScummScumm Member UncommonPosts: 78
    I was happy with it too, for the most part.  I like that players were dependent on each other to bind, rather than an NPC.  But I didn't care for the restriction that melee classes could only be bound in cities. I would prefer bind point restrictions to be the same across all classes.

    If all players could be bound in more locations, it would create new ways to deal with death penalties.  Groups entering a risky dungeon might meet out front for a 'group-bind' in case things go wrong.  But this would mean players couldn't just 'gate' home when they were done playing.  It would all be a balance of risk and reward.    
    Also, it may be interesting for certain classes or high levels to have skills that allow 'Side-along Gating'.  Maybe a single caster could bring a single player back to the caster's bind point with them.  

    Or maybe the Summoner class could have a 'banish' spell (hey if they're good at summoning, why not banishing too?).  They could 'banish' players back to their bind point, which would act as a gate spell for classes who can't cast it.    
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 599
    edited March 2016
    Scumm said:
    (snip)
    Or maybe the Summoner class could have a 'banish' spell (hey if they're good at summoning, why not banishing too?).  They could 'banish' players back to their bind point, which would act as a gate spell for classes who can't cast it.    
    I think wizards could do that in EQ.

    Here:
    http://wiki.project1999.com/Translocate
    http://wiki.project1999.com/Translocate:_Group
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Only exception from EQ would be binding in dungeon. I don't think that should be possible. I saw that misused in many ways down the line.

    I agree there should be a soulbinder NPC in major cities. Beyond that, I don't think there should be any limitation on where you can and can't bind as a non-caster. If a wizard can bind themselves outside of a city, they should be able to bind anyone else, imo. That limitation never made sense.


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