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The Tip of the Iceberg is Huge

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  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    fed79 said:

    Bruhza said:



    fed79 said:


    It's worth $30 for sure but the pay2win elements that really drop in the end game just leave a bad taste. Others like it and all power to them, but I know already this game won't last for me.






    This game is 100% not pay2win.



    Actually it is 100% pay2win, not sure why people want to deny facts, I didn't even say it as a negative, it's just not for me. Aside from the items that have stats that can only be purchased from the shop, there is a resurrection item that you can buy that negates the penalties of death. In end game where pvp is turned on and levelling is much slower, the normal penalty of XP loss is negated as long as you have this item with you. Just read the forums.
    This game has a lot of great content and worth $30 but more people will encounter the pay2win elements as they reach endgame. This game was good enough that it could have done well without them but such is life.

    That is completely untrue. The items with stats are things like xp boosts: there is no item that boosts your combat skills. There is in fact less "p2w" in BDO than in many other popular mmos including ESO, GW2, AA, WoW, NeverWinter Online.

    The only item that could be considered "p2w" outside of the xp boosts that are available in almost every other mmo is the "Ghillie suit". All that does is hide a player's nameplate.

    Now personally I would prefer that such an item is not in the game, but it is a one off $22 purchase. It is not like the p2w items in many other games where you can either outright buy powerful items or can buy items that help guarantee success in upgrading weapons. The game is not even focused on pvp for many players, but even if you are this is not a huge money sink where the person with the biggest credit card wins.

    You simply cannot "p2w" in BDO (in the sense of a credit card warrior that can just one shot everyone because they spent lots of cash), virtually every system in the game is designed to prevent it. The game should be praised for this, because in this day and age having such a strong non-p2w focus is actually a real stand out. It baffles me that some people who are against p2w in games do not understand this, and keep ignorantly calling out "p2w".

    ....
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    Dullahan said:
    Who cares if you can buy stats, you can buy an item (the ghillie suit) that allows players to hide their nameplate, guild affiliation, and even obscure their class. In an MMO, this sort of thing is imperative, especially one where you can't actually "target" a person to manually make a determination. Like so many things in BDO, its poorly thought out.
    Or it's really well thought-out.  Since it's not about stats, people didn't complain initially about it being P2W.

    Say what you want (and I do, pretty often), but you can't say that Daum and PA haven't put A LOT of thought into how they're going to monetize this game and how to manipulate players to use the cash shop.
  • LethalityLethality Member UncommonPosts: 76
    edited March 2016

    Attarik said:



    Perjure said:




    Attarik said:





    mmrv said:







    Attarik said:




    I just don't get the fascination with this game, the combat is generic, the classes are both gender locked and determine what you can look like, the cash shop is unbelievably overpriced and no matter how much there is to do its all mostly fishing by bots or boring grinding.












    I have a couple friends like you. Believe it or not the problem lies with you. I am not sure why people like you even play MMORPG's and I am pretty sure you dont either. You clearly just don't like these type of games so stop playing them and you can quite whining.







    The combat is generic? In what manner? I mean what are you expecting from combat how can it possibly be "not generic" this isnt tab target, you get wildly powerful abilties to slay hoardes of monsters. Your complaint would be like stating "I dont get why people like the division the combat is generic, you get guns and shoots stuff" it doesnt even make sense.







    The cash shop is expensive? lol ok it is but that has NOTHING to do with playing the game and there is NOTHING you need from the cash shop so why even mention it as an issue? You are a clown.







    There are no "fishing bots" the game lets you afk fish, kinda even makes sense in real life fishing is literally an afk hobby you sit there staring at the water waiting for hours sometimes for a bite...







    and your last joke of a complaint "boring grinding" its only boring grinding if you make it boring grinding? look up your leveling guide on line, follow it from little best grind per level to little best grind spot for the nest 5 levels....ya it will be boring because you make these games boring because you dont actually play the games. you just research everything online from what class you choose to every location you bee line too for the fastest possible leveling and then you complain the game is boring?







    Again get over yourself and just stop playing mmorpgs they are clearly not for you if that is your mindset of "playing these games" rush to level cap mashout end game to get max level and gear then sit and be moan there is nothing to do...you dont play the games right because you dont enjoy these types of games. So just stop playing MMO's they offer nothing for you. I am enjoy brisk leveling etc... but yet i am level 38 only , and find myself wandering around doing all of these quests that can bread crumb me around the area for hours and hours barely budging my exp bar.... and my friends like you say " yeah those quests are all useless they don't give you anything" no they dont give YOU anything, they give me hours of entertainment, because i enjoy the class i picked, I enjoy exploring areas reading the little quests watching the cut scenes, and seeing all of the other "abstract ways" my character progresses improve. I havent even scrratched the surface of stuff like building a raft to explore islands, i dont even have a horse yet lol.









    I've been playing MMOs since Everquest first dropped and I love the genre, but intentionally designing a game to force players to bot or grind pointless things like "walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour" are not good game design, and saying "if you don't like my game it's because you suck at MMOs" just makes you sound like a pretentious jackass.




    The game doesn't force you to bot or walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour. Have you played the game?






    I have, which means I instantly cant refund which stinks but that's fine. I played a warrior and yes, I was forced to walk around with a pack to build a stat.



    No-one forced you to do that at all. :) In fact, you won't even use the stat you're building if all you're doing combat.

    Grats!
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Dullahan said:
    Who cares if you can buy stats, you can buy an item (the ghillie suit) that allows players to hide their nameplate, guild affiliation, and even obscure their class. In an MMO, this sort of thing is imperative, especially one where you can't actually "target" a person to manually make a determination. Like so many things in BDO, its poorly thought out.
    Or it's really well thought-out.  Since it's not about stats, people didn't complain initially about it being P2W.

    Say what you want (and I do, pretty often), but you can't say that Daum and PA haven't put A LOT of thought into how they're going to monetize this game and how to manipulate players to use the cash shop.
    I'm not sure whether you're advocating P2W here, or advocating bad design. Either way, in the case of BDO and the ghillie suit, its both.


  • TacticalZombehTacticalZombeh Member UncommonPosts: 430
    edited March 2016

    Kyleran said:


    Attarik said:



    Attarik said:


















    I've been playing MMOs since Everquest first dropped and I love the genre, but intentionally designing a game to force players to bot or grind pointless things like "walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour" are not good game design, and saying "if you don't like my game it's because you suck at MMOs" just makes you sound like a pretentious jackass.


    The game doesn't force you to bot or walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour. Have you played the game?



    I have, which means I instantly cant refund which stinks but that's fine. I played a warrior and yes, I was forced to walk around with a pack to build a stat.

    Too bad they forced you to play a warrior.

    Oh wait....


    Funnier that he was 'forced' to build up a stat that let him.... carry more weight.

    Ugh when are they going to fix these forums? The quote system is annoying.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,010

    Attarik said:

    I just don't get the fascination with this game, the combat is generic, the classes are both gender locked and determine what you can look like, the cash shop is unbelievably overpriced and no matter how much there is to do its all mostly fishing by bots or boring grinding.



    Well, I'll have to agree with grakulen in that it must be a matter of perspective.

    I don't think combat is generic because, besides having multiple combos and various combos that work well, there is benefit to hitting a person's back and attacking them in a downed state. gender locked doesn't bother everyone and you can tweak your looks to a great degree to look different from the template. Your Wizard will look at best, middle age though.

    They need to make money and they have determined that these are the prices that will allow them to do that. Luckily you don't absolutely need everything in the cash shop and many of the practical items can be earned in game. Additionally, by playing every day, you get loyalty points that can be used to purchase things under the "loyalty" section of the cash shop.

    I like grinding games, that's a huge +. I might even say that as far as mmo's go, I'm probably not going to play strict themepark games ever again unless I can forgo most of the quests and explore, kill monsters, and level that way.

    You can manually fish as well.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Iselin said:
    shalissar said:
    I just built a "ferry" and it turned out to be this really crappy slow rowboat. Much disappoint -10/10 :P
    Lol. That has to be one of the worst translations in the game... I saw the word ferry, looked at the NPC one that services the Velia dock and thought "Yeah, I want one."

    Luckily for me by the time I started building it I already knew it was a rowboat. Fishing boat is what you want but hey, the rowboat is 5 times faster than that raft :)
    I don't know... We just like to think in modern terms. Things like "Harper's Ferry" were a row boat that ferried people across to the other side of the Potomac. :)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Dullahan said:
    Dullahan said:
    Who cares if you can buy stats, you can buy an item (the ghillie suit) that allows players to hide their nameplate, guild affiliation, and even obscure their class. In an MMO, this sort of thing is imperative, especially one where you can't actually "target" a person to manually make a determination. Like so many things in BDO, its poorly thought out.
    Or it's really well thought-out.  Since it's not about stats, people didn't complain initially about it being P2W.

    Say what you want (and I do, pretty often), but you can't say that Daum and PA haven't put A LOT of thought into how they're going to monetize this game and how to manipulate players to use the cash shop.
    I'm not sure whether you're advocating P2W here, or advocating bad design. Either way, in the case of BDO and the ghillie suit, its both.
    Shouldn't you be somewhere else... in another thread defending why having to sit down to regen mana after killing one orc is good design? :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • HexamusHexamus Member UncommonPosts: 41

    Attarik said:



    Perjure said:




    Attarik said:





    mmrv said:







    Attarik said:




    I just don't get the fascination with this game, the combat is generic, the classes are both gender locked and determine what you can look like, the cash shop is unbelievably overpriced and no matter how much there is to do its all mostly fishing by bots or boring grinding.












    I have a couple friends like you. Believe it or not the problem lies with you. I am not sure why people like you even play MMORPG's and I am pretty sure you dont either. You clearly just don't like these type of games so stop playing them and you can quite whining.







    The combat is generic? In what manner? I mean what are you expecting from combat how can it possibly be "not generic" this isnt tab target, you get wildly powerful abilties to slay hoardes of monsters. Your complaint would be like stating "I dont get why people like the division the combat is generic, you get guns and shoots stuff" it doesnt even make sense.







    The cash shop is expensive? lol ok it is but that has NOTHING to do with playing the game and there is NOTHING you need from the cash shop so why even mention it as an issue? You are a clown.







    There are no "fishing bots" the game lets you afk fish, kinda even makes sense in real life fishing is literally an afk hobby you sit there staring at the water waiting for hours sometimes for a bite...







    and your last joke of a complaint "boring grinding" its only boring grinding if you make it boring grinding? look up your leveling guide on line, follow it from little best grind per level to little best grind spot for the nest 5 levels....ya it will be boring because you make these games boring because you dont actually play the games. you just research everything online from what class you choose to every location you bee line too for the fastest possible leveling and then you complain the game is boring?







    Again get over yourself and just stop playing mmorpgs they are clearly not for you if that is your mindset of "playing these games" rush to level cap mashout end game to get max level and gear then sit and be moan there is nothing to do...you dont play the games right because you dont enjoy these types of games. So just stop playing MMO's they offer nothing for you. I am enjoy brisk leveling etc... but yet i am level 38 only , and find myself wandering around doing all of these quests that can bread crumb me around the area for hours and hours barely budging my exp bar.... and my friends like you say " yeah those quests are all useless they don't give you anything" no they dont give YOU anything, they give me hours of entertainment, because i enjoy the class i picked, I enjoy exploring areas reading the little quests watching the cut scenes, and seeing all of the other "abstract ways" my character progresses improve. I havent even scrratched the surface of stuff like building a raft to explore islands, i dont even have a horse yet lol.









    I've been playing MMOs since Everquest first dropped and I love the genre, but intentionally designing a game to force players to bot or grind pointless things like "walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour" are not good game design, and saying "if you don't like my game it's because you suck at MMOs" just makes you sound like a pretentious jackass.




    The game doesn't force you to bot or walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour. Have you played the game?






    I have, which means I instantly cant refund which stinks but that's fine. I played a warrior and yes, I was forced to walk around with a pack to build a stat.



    Sounds like a case of "THE OLD WAYS WERE JUST SO MUCH BETTER!" syndrome. People usually cry when change happens. Folks, I miss my UO days too but we move on.
  • Apollymi452Apollymi452 Member UncommonPosts: 36
    edited March 2016

    kaedian66 said:

    I like the irony of the bikinipanda blurb in the supplied screenshot.



    lol I love the message under the Bikinipanda blurb....but then I'm partial < TLP > (The Last Prophesy) Has been my guild home for awhile now. :D
  • GraliusGralius Member UncommonPosts: 21



    If it weren't for FFA PvP, I'd give this game a shot. I love games where you can just get lost doing stuff other than level up for hours.



    I'll wait for a free trial.



    This is also what is keeping me from dropping the $30.00. FFA PvP usually turns out to be nothing more than a grief fest, and with limited time to play, with a large amount of interruptions (AFK due to kids), I can't see myself enjoying my efforts in this one.

    Can anyone clarify the PvP here?

    Are there consequences for someone just randomly attacking other player?

    Are attackers able to loot you if you die?

    What measures are in place to help prevent deliberate griefing?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Gralius said:



    If it weren't for FFA PvP, I'd give this game a shot. I love games where you can just get lost doing stuff other than level up for hours.



    I'll wait for a free trial.



    This is also what is keeping me from dropping the $30.00. FFA PvP usually turns out to be nothing more than a grief fest, and with limited time to play, with a large amount of interruptions (AFK due to kids), I can't see myself enjoying my efforts in this one.

    Can anyone clarify the PvP here?

    Are there consequences for someone just randomly attacking other player?

    Are attackers able to loot you if you die?

    What measures are in place to help prevent deliberate griefing?
    There is a Karma system. The more someone PKs, the lower the Karma goes resulting in many different penalties including eventually becoming a free kill for everyone else with no karma loss for those killing the PKer. And no you can't be looted.

    Most PVP fights come about from people trying to farm the same PVE mobs that someone else is already fighting. You can avoid a lot of it simply by moving on and fighting mobs that are not camped or just grouping up with whoever is already there.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I really need to give this a try.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • mrfoolmrfool Member UncommonPosts: 3


    If it weren't for FFA PvP, I'd give this game a shot. I love games where you can just get lost doing stuff other than level up for hours.



    I'll wait for a free trial.



    Ask around for a Guest Pass, tons of people have one.

    And your point about the Open World PVP:

    90% of this game's PVP is done through Guild vs Guild wars. It's true that there is a system to kill players in the open world at a higher lvl but it's highly discouraged with the Karma system that hurts your ability to do mostly anything else in the game.

    FInd out more about the game and why it appeals to you before you judge it on one aspect you clearly don't know anything about friend :)

    It's the best MMO I've played in a very very long time. Worth giving it a shot if you can get a Guest Pass (I've given mine away already sorry!)
  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016
    or you know, you could have just played the game and accomplished the same thing
    I find it hilarious the complaints I see about this game
    as stated by others, there is no grind unless you make it so

    instead of walking back and forth carrying a pack to build strength you could just spend a bit of time doing trading
    another "stat" is breath/stamina - if you just play the game there is enough running around naturally to advance

    but no, it seems a few players jump into the game and suddenly have to have level 30 in strength and 40 in stamina and expert in cooking or alchemy or whatever
    the only goal is to be max level and then settle into grinding for armor/weapons/dungeons like every other MMO you/they have played
    these people, including you, have forgotten how to "play" a game

    this game is not a rush to endgame - hell, endgame isn't even in yet - that should tell you something


    Attarik said:



    Perjure said:




    Attarik said:





    mmrv said:







    Attarik said:




    I just don't get the fascination with this game, the combat is generic, the classes are both gender locked and determine what you can look like, the cash shop is unbelievably overpriced and no matter how much there is to do its all mostly fishing by bots or boring grinding.












    I have a couple friends like you. Believe it or not the problem lies with you. I am not sure why people like you even play MMORPG's and I am pretty sure you dont either. You clearly just don't like these type of games so stop playing them and you can quite whining.







    The combat is generic? In what manner? I mean what are you expecting from combat how can it possibly be "not generic" this isnt tab target, you get wildly powerful abilties to slay hoardes of monsters. Your complaint would be like stating "I dont get why people like the division the combat is generic, you get guns and shoots stuff" it doesnt even make sense.







    The cash shop is expensive? lol ok it is but that has NOTHING to do with playing the game and there is NOTHING you need from the cash shop so why even mention it as an issue? You are a clown.







    There are no "fishing bots" the game lets you afk fish, kinda even makes sense in real life fishing is literally an afk hobby you sit there staring at the water waiting for hours sometimes for a bite...







    and your last joke of a complaint "boring grinding" its only boring grinding if you make it boring grinding? look up your leveling guide on line, follow it from little best grind per level to little best grind spot for the nest 5 levels....ya it will be boring because you make these games boring because you dont actually play the games. you just research everything online from what class you choose to every location you bee line too for the fastest possible leveling and then you complain the game is boring?







    Again get over yourself and just stop playing mmorpgs they are clearly not for you if that is your mindset of "playing these games" rush to level cap mashout end game to get max level and gear then sit and be moan there is nothing to do...you dont play the games right because you dont enjoy these types of games. So just stop playing MMO's they offer nothing for you. I am enjoy brisk leveling etc... but yet i am level 38 only , and find myself wandering around doing all of these quests that can bread crumb me around the area for hours and hours barely budging my exp bar.... and my friends like you say " yeah those quests are all useless they don't give you anything" no they dont give YOU anything, they give me hours of entertainment, because i enjoy the class i picked, I enjoy exploring areas reading the little quests watching the cut scenes, and seeing all of the other "abstract ways" my character progresses improve. I havent even scrratched the surface of stuff like building a raft to explore islands, i dont even have a horse yet lol.









    I've been playing MMOs since Everquest first dropped and I love the genre, but intentionally designing a game to force players to bot or grind pointless things like "walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour" are not good game design, and saying "if you don't like my game it's because you suck at MMOs" just makes you sound like a pretentious jackass.




    The game doesn't force you to bot or walk in a circle with a backpack for an hour. Have you played the game?






    I have, which means I instantly cant refund which stinks but that's fine. I played a warrior and yes, I was forced to walk around with a pack to build a stat.



    image

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Pala said:
    Does it have good group-play or is it another one of those solo based MMOs?
    Pretty much identical to all other clones,90-99% solo.Even much of the sol,o is automated,travel is automated,direction/location to quests are automated,workers are automated,fishing is fish botting,there is your game in a nutshell.
    Weather you like that or not is up to each individual but for me,definitely not what i am looking for.
    I cannot even think of one single grouping game,so it shows how shallow the genre is right now,all Wow clones 99.9% of the games are Wow clones.

    It bothers me even more because even if you want to be a WOW clone don't ruin immersion with automation,don't ruin the reason of having a login screen with solo game play,you can copy Wow but do it in a mmorpg style design.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,355
    Thanks for the article.  You make the game sound a lot like Uncharted Waters Online.  I'll definitely have to check it out sometime.

    This demonstrates why this site's "review in progress" approach of waiting quite a while to give a game a score is such a good idea.  A score pulled out of a hat by someone who only played for a couple of hours isn't terribly useful, and a good review of a decent game should convince some people that they should try the game and others that they shouldn't try it.
  • FacelessSaviorFacelessSavior Member UncommonPosts: 188
    So is there some actual multiplayer to this? Sounds like a single player game outside of the pvp from a few things I've read.
  • MysteryBMysteryB Member UncommonPosts: 355
    This game is amazing, so much to do and see I feel like I can play 100 hours and still be a noob! That's not a bad thing either, it is just how big the damn game is!

    Mystery Bounty

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    MysteryB said:
    ...to me it was just fun being a part of something I didn't gain any exp and didn't even fight anything but I had a great time!
    Haven't heard anything like this in years.

    (We call that roleplay, folks.)

    Not for everyone, but definitely encouraging. Perhaps it's making a comeback.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Dullahan said:
    Who cares if you can buy stats, you can buy an item (the ghillie suit) that allows players to hide their nameplate, guild affiliation, and even obscure their class. In an MMO, this sort of thing is imperative, especially one where you can't actually "target" a person to manually make a determination. Like so many things in BDO, its poorly thought out.

    This.  The defenders of this game really crack me up.  How is the game not pay-to-win with an item like this?  There are already hacks for the darkness issue at night, good luck trying to legally pvp at night with the cheaters. 

    If the game had an end game, it might be worth investing time in it, since it doesn't, it isn't.
  • MysteryBMysteryB Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Haters gonna hate but seriously this game is unbelievably fun, I got on for what was supposed to be a few minutes before bed and before I knew it it was 5 hours later, I have not been taken in by a game like this in forever, let alone an MMO. I liked Wildstar, and liked Blade and Soul, but since City of Heroes shut down I have not found an MMO I love, until Black Desert.

    Mystery Bounty

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