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A Game Breakdown by DocGotGame - CBT2 - Black Desert Online

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Comments

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,644
    ArChWind said:
    Phry said:
    ..
    ..
    @ArChWind Assuming your information is correct, that pretty much made the decisions for me.
    @Phry Your definition of themepark is complete nonsense.. With all respect.
  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 961
    I think he does a good job explaining what BDO is. Thumbs up!

    Does he know everything ? No he doesn't and he says so himself. But he is good at delivering the message what BDO basically is and what it takes to enjoy it. You don't need every detail for that.

    For me it was, if you enjoy PvP, especially guild PvP or with friends and have a lot of time, BDO is the game for you. So it's not for me which is unfortunate because it has many features like more sandboxish, open world, crafting, traveling, boats, skills and all the stuff which I really like. But in the end I would probably just one of the PvPers victims or couldn't take part in many of it's activies.

    But that's ok, it's a game made for guild/group PvP'ers. I wish them the best and hope it doesn't get P2W and they find enough people to keep the game running.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    edited February 2016
    kjempff said:
    ArChWind said:
    Phry said:
    ..
    ..
    @ArChWind Assuming your information is correct, that pretty much made the decisions for me.
    @Phry Your definition of themepark is complete nonsense.. With all respect.
    early LOL Was thinking this was response to another thread I deleted the content disregard.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    Phry said:
    ArChWind said:
    Phry said:
    Watched the first few minutes, but, not impressed, though he did manage to turn me off of the game completely, he also seems confused by what a sandbox game is, as he claimed the game is one, and then began listing off a whole bunch of things that were theme park game features, the main one of course being level based gameplay.
    Areas accessible based on level = Themepark
    Character levelling = Themepark
    Levelling Characters based on access to increasingly higher level targets/monsters/animals etc. oddly enough, is a Themepark feature.
    Character gameplay determined by class choice = Themepark.
    So based on this guys 'review' BDO is just another variation of a classic themepark game.

    Also, for a youtuber, the guy seems to have confused a 'forceful intonation' with a 'persuasive' one, he might get people to listen to him for longer if he toned it down a little, as the main reason i stopped listening after a few minutes was because i couldn't bear to listen to his voice any longer. O.o
    The game never get to the sandbox until you get the PvP flag Phry. The systems kick it at that point and I think a lot of people are going to be really shocked and surprised when many guys who are intended to RPK start roaming the world.

    I bought the game knowing some of these based on flow charts and information floating all over the forums. Much of this information is misinformation.

    to build any sort of empire in trading will require player to be PvP and defend their nodes or lose them, to make a guild will require player to be PvP enabled (unless they change it)

    All resources will be camped by PvP including low level area to control the flow of materials. All the best resources are in post 50 areas and maximum non-PvP is level 45 making it almost impossible to get them without getting killed.

    Well I knew going in I would have to flag up PvP enabled but I was going on the information they had made griefing by PK kills through karma and flagging difficult. What I eventually found out is post 45 anyone can PK you and cause you to lose experience. Since the game is heavily grind post 55 it is going to be major issues for anyone to advance unless they are geared and ready to fight over grinding spots. The developer caved in to the PvP crying and reduced the karma penalty and made it so the OW PK is going to be a valid means to play.

    The other thing I learned is that any guild can declare war on another and attack weather the other guild accepts the declaration of war or not and they will not lose karma or have to pay every 2 hours to keep the war going. If the other guild decides to accept then all members regardless of level are open target even those that are level under the PvP requirements.

    It's a sandbox just not until 45 on.
    Sounds like your a bit confused about what a sandbox is too, as none of what you describe has anything to do with a game being a sandbox game, but about a game being an OW-PVP game, and OW-PVP is not a sandbox feature, oddly enough.

    So what you are basically saying, is that BDO is an OW-PVP Themepark. Or more precisely, a themepark game that starts off with a few PVE features, which then gradually becomes more PVP orientated as the players level up, which basically means it will be a niche game that only appeals to PVP orientated players, PVE players will undoubtedly either avoid this game completely, or abandon it after a few weeks.
    That really isnt' a recipe for success, at least not in the western market. O.o

    I'm not confused a bit it IS OW FFA PvP post 45. Just like all the other OW FFA PvP in existence.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    ArChWind said:
    Phry said:
    ArChWind said:
    Phry said:
    Watched the first few minutes, but, not impressed, though he did manage to turn me off of the game completely, he also seems confused by what a sandbox game is, as he claimed the game is one, and then began listing off a whole bunch of things that were theme park game features, the main one of course being level based gameplay.
    Areas accessible based on level = Themepark
    Character levelling = Themepark
    Levelling Characters based on access to increasingly higher level targets/monsters/animals etc. oddly enough, is a Themepark feature.
    Character gameplay determined by class choice = Themepark.
    So based on this guys 'review' BDO is just another variation of a classic themepark game.

    Also, for a youtuber, the guy seems to have confused a 'forceful intonation' with a 'persuasive' one, he might get people to listen to him for longer if he toned it down a little, as the main reason i stopped listening after a few minutes was because i couldn't bear to listen to his voice any longer. O.o
    The game never get to the sandbox until you get the PvP flag Phry. The systems kick it at that point and I think a lot of people are going to be really shocked and surprised when many guys who are intended to RPK start roaming the world.

    I bought the game knowing some of these based on flow charts and information floating all over the forums. Much of this information is misinformation.

    to build any sort of empire in trading will require player to be PvP and defend their nodes or lose them, to make a guild will require player to be PvP enabled (unless they change it)

    All resources will be camped by PvP including low level area to control the flow of materials. All the best resources are in post 50 areas and maximum non-PvP is level 45 making it almost impossible to get them without getting killed.

    Well I knew going in I would have to flag up PvP enabled but I was going on the information they had made griefing by PK kills through karma and flagging difficult. What I eventually found out is post 45 anyone can PK you and cause you to lose experience. Since the game is heavily grind post 55 it is going to be major issues for anyone to advance unless they are geared and ready to fight over grinding spots. The developer caved in to the PvP crying and reduced the karma penalty and made it so the OW PK is going to be a valid means to play.

    The other thing I learned is that any guild can declare war on another and attack weather the other guild accepts the declaration of war or not and they will not lose karma or have to pay every 2 hours to keep the war going. If the other guild decides to accept then all members regardless of level are open target even those that are level under the PvP requirements.

    It's a sandbox just not until 45 on.
    Sounds like your a bit confused about what a sandbox is too, as none of what you describe has anything to do with a game being a sandbox game, but about a game being an OW-PVP game, and OW-PVP is not a sandbox feature, oddly enough.

    So what you are basically saying, is that BDO is an OW-PVP Themepark. Or more precisely, a themepark game that starts off with a few PVE features, which then gradually becomes more PVP orientated as the players level up, which basically means it will be a niche game that only appeals to PVP orientated players, PVE players will undoubtedly either avoid this game completely, or abandon it after a few weeks.
    That really isnt' a recipe for success, at least not in the western market. O.o

    I'm not confused a bit it IS OW FFA PvP post 45. Just like all the other OW FFA PvP in existence.
    I totally agree with what your saying, post 45 its an OW FFA PvP game.
    it seems we are in agreement after all. =)
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,867
    edited February 2016
    ArChWind said:
    The game never get to the sandbox until you get the PvP flag Phry
    Flagging for PVP gets into PVP, nothing more, nothing less.

    BDO is a themepark through and through - standard level and gear progression.

    It is just silly people that put negative connotation to the term, so please  let's avoid it.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    edited February 2016
    Gdemami said:
    ArChWind said:
    The game never get to the sandbox until you get the PvP flag Phry
    Flagging for PVP gets into PVP, nothing more, nothing less.

    BDO is a themepark through and through - standard level and gear progression like in any other themepark game.

    It is just silly people that put negative connotation to the term, so let's please avoid it.
    Not really the game is a PvE/PvP game the first 44 levels are all PvE and very well done can hook you really fast. The PvP game is the OW FFA post 45.

    The problem is that the PvP crowd is crying about having to do 45 levels to PvP and the PvE crowd will be raging they have to PvP to do the last 45 levels.

    Going to be one big shit storm when everyone and the game will probably fail which is why I am not in game right now because I don't see long term atm.

    Going to sit around and watch the forums and see what happens in 3 days when every PvE is already near the PvP flag.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,867
    ArChWind said:
    Not really the game is a PvE/PvP game the first 44 levels are all PvE and very well done can hook you really fast. The PvP game is the OW FFA post 45.

    The problem is that the PvP crowd is crying about having to do 45 levels to PvP and the PvE crowd will be raging they have to PvP to do the last 45 levels.

    Going to be one big shit storm when everyone and the game will probably fail which is why I am not in game right now because I don't see long term atm.

    Going to sit around and watch the forums and see what happens in 3 days when every PvE is already near the PvP flag.
    However, that has nothing to do with themepark/sandbox topic, it just means BDO is a themepark with OW-FFA-PVP. 


    Yeah, this will be Archeage all over again - PVP in order to PVE is abysmal fail design.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    Gdemami said:
    ArChWind said:
    Not really the game is a PvE/PvP game the first 44 levels are all PvE and very well done can hook you really fast. The PvP game is the OW FFA post 45.

    The problem is that the PvP crowd is crying about having to do 45 levels to PvP and the PvE crowd will be raging they have to PvP to do the last 45 levels.

    Going to be one big shit storm when everyone and the game will probably fail which is why I am not in game right now because I don't see long term atm.

    Going to sit around and watch the forums and see what happens in 3 days when every PvE is already near the PvP flag.
    However, that has nothing to do with themepark/sandbox topic, it just means BDO is a themepark with OW-FFA-PVP. 


    Yeah, this will be Archeage all over again - PVP in order to PVE is abysmal fail design.

    LOL yep and why I am like I say not going to invest time and more money in it until I see if it actually survives 6 months.
  • SwampDragonsSwampDragons Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Informative yes but really enoying to watch when he tries to drown his own voice with increasing his voice :D
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    edited February 2016
    Gdemami said:
    ArChWind said:
    The game never get to the sandbox until you get the PvP flag Phry
    Flagging for PVP gets into PVP, nothing more, nothing less.

    BDO is a themepark through and through - standard level and gear progression.

    It is just silly people that put negative connotation to the term, so please  let's avoid it.
    I guess you're in for a surprise (if you are playing) because the attacker can flag and the other guy don't have to flag back and can attack and kill you which cost you experience. Will he care he went red? No

    At 56 he can work it off in 16 minutes killing equally challenging mobs and gaining experience where you at 56 will have to work for some 34 minutes to catch up.

    You may have bought the game like me.

    But I poured a lot of hours in to study of the mechanics  and then found the game I bought is not what I thought.

    BDO post 45 is a OW FFA PvP game with some PvE content.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,298
    If you want some guides that explain things much better with no BS or wrong info, good narration (just ignore the "pooper" part lol) that actually teach you how to play the game and classes, check out Hakurai on YT ....or if you rather read it, check out this instead.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Member UncommonPosts: 407
    This game will be just like every other failing OW MMO post 45.

    PvPers will be ganking and gaming the PvP system, like they always do, driving the PvEers away from the game, then the PvPers will blame the PvEers for the games failure, like they always do. It will never work. PvPers are always the minority. PvEers are always, always the majority in this type of game.

    I'll give it a week before the hue and cry begins. And I'll hold off buying the game as IMO it will go FTP by Christmas/New Years, or the announcement will come out about that time. The BTP option is so the game doesn't have an ArcheAge type of faceplant launch. As the PvEers dwindle, they'll change it back to FTP like it was supposed to be.
  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    edited February 2016
    Note: Apologies if this appears as one giant wall of text, the source doesn't look like that, not sure what the issue is. I'll try and underline where the breaks in the paragraph should be like this. He builds this game as a sandbox game but it comes off more as a open ended theme park. It focuses more on levels, gives a few quests (his definition at the beginning can be used for games like EQ and almost for WoW) It has some sandbox like features but is very much still in the themepark realm as it focuses on levels, getting better gear (it uses gems like upgrades) gathering nodes to get better gear. Sandbox focus way more on building the personality of your character and telling who they are, not what they are. Doesn't help this game also has classes which tend to role more with theme park rather than sandboxes. Also I originally had a whole rant about the karma doing nothing except giving you a hard time, until at the very end (thank you for leaving that as the very last thing you mentioned btw, that should have been mentioned in your talk about karma) about there being an outlaw town which does help some but I'd need to know what is in that "outlaw" town.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,791
    edited February 2016
    I feel they went completely up the wrong tree and was imo a decision ONLY based on trying to get more numbers.

    You can't start involving too  much activity and game design around pvp,it just does not work to co exist with pve and imo it likely never will because you would have to create a game world much like  our earth,with police and jails etc etc and players simply would not go for being arrested and stuffed in a jail for 20 years lmao.

    Three things is all it would take to get me aboard and imo the game would rock.
     #1 lose the pvp altogether
    #2  Create grouping not soloing.
    #3 Lose the spammy combat,slow it the heck down,a Ranger/Archer does not shoot arrows like that.
    There are some other tweaks i could go for,but these few area would have made this a great game to play for all pve'rs.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    Wizardry said:
    I feel they went completely up the wrong tree and was imo a decision ONLY based on trying to get more numbers.

    You can't start involving too  much activity and game design around pvp,it just does not work to co exist with pve and imo it likely never will because you would have to create a game world much like  our earth,with police and jails etc etc and players simply would not go for being arrested and stuffed in a jail for 20 years lmao.

    Three things is all it would take to get me aboard and imo the game would rock.
     #1 lose the pvp altogether
    #2  Create grouping not soloing.
    #3 Lose the spammy combat,slow it the heck down,a Ranger/Archer does not shoot arrows like that.
    There are some other tweaks i could go for,but these few area would have made this a great game to play for all pve'rs.

    They would have to scrap the entire code base to make it even remotely PvE only so I guess we got stuck with what it is. To emphasize this.

    1. - PvE to PvP flag is no longer a quest. You are going to level to be flaged PvP weather you want to or not. Only option you will have is to quit playing or flag OW FFA PvP

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17922-what-level-do-i-need-to-quit-at-to-never-pvp/&page=6#comment-486254

    2. - If you are PvE you will be forced to PvP or die and take experience loss. If you flag up there is not experience loss or karma hit on your attacker if they kill you.

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/23424-pk-myth/#comment-487791

    3. - Guild wars no longer require upkeep cost. So guilds can declare wars and do not have to maintain the high cost of doing so.

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/16884-gvg-war-mechanics/

    Not what it was when the hype started but that is what we got so this was why I made this post.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/446532/if-bdo-was-changed-after-launch-to-be-more-like-df-what-would-you-do/p1

    No one understood or maybe didn't care?

    O well
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,490
    I remember Aion's original marketing blurb - "this is pvpve!" - Yeah, that worked out well.
    Whenever a game tries to have enforced mixing of the two play styles, there is usually one outcome:
    Dissatisfaction in both camps.
    Eastern mmo playerbase seems to accept this mix, but it is one aspect of these port-over games that runs into serious problems in the West.
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member UncommonPosts: 632
    this dude got shat on in archeage and went salty lol



    also his topic in twitch is : BDO sandbox? are you serieus? look for others streamers who actually know the game
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