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BDO's Greatest Enemy is Information

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  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Torval said:
    Yes, the NCSoft financials. Maybe you should check your facts before spouting inaccurate nonsense.
    Show me the proof Lineage, a game that can't be played in either Europe or the US is "one the highest population of any MMO in the world"

    Show the proof.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited February 2016
    Torval said:
    Kiyoris said:
    Recore said:
    Great, so show me the chart of the claim you're defending:
    "Lineage has arguable one the highest population of any MMO in the world"
    Show me some proof.
    I am not going to show you anything.  It was just posted a couple weeks ago on this site so look it up if you wish. 

    You are active so I am sure you have already seen them though. 
    Why not? Show me the proof that Lineage has one of the highest MMO population in the world.
    This game can't even be played in either the US or Europe, so I doubt it is true.
    But I'm giving you a chance to prove me wrong. Show me the proof you claim shows it.
    Your statement is based in ethnocentrism, not facts. Like I said, the NCSoft financials show how much it makes and based on that number, every quarter, people can estimate the minimum number of subscribing players much more accurately than can be done with EQ.
    I'm not using any facts, because I'm not making any claims.

    I am -very doubtful- Lineage is one of the highest populated MMO, simply because it's not playable in many places, nowhere in the West.

    But I'm willing to be proven wrong, with evidence.

    I'm asking to back up the claim that you support: "Lineage has one the highest population of any MMO in the world", with evidence,..or to retract your support for the claim.
  • LostarLostar Member UncommonPosts: 891
    Yes. I believe people that have more than a few brain cells to rub together should have an advantage. Fact is: It's not that difficult...it just isn't world of warcraft simple. If it should become that simple I will leave.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    i dont know how big the population of Lineage 1 is, but it is the top mmo in Asia. In 2013 NCsoft reported 1.8 billion dollars made from Lineage 1. The US/EU version shut down in 2011. I doubt a few hundred whales spent that much.

    Also, although this may not be entirely related, Asia has more than double the amount of people in America(not just US) and EU combined. I dont doubt that the gamer population is also bigger.




  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    edited February 2016
    Kiyoris said:
    Torval said:
    Kiyoris said:
    Recore said:
    Great, so show me the chart of the claim you're defending:
    "Lineage has arguable one the highest population of any MMO in the world"
    Show me some proof.
    I am not going to show you anything.  It was just posted a couple weeks ago on this site so look it up if you wish. 

    You are active so I am sure you have already seen them though. 
    Why not? Show me the proof that Lineage has one of the highest MMO population in the world.
    This game can't even be played in either the US or Europe, so I doubt it is true.
    But I'm giving you a chance to prove me wrong. Show me the proof you claim shows it.
    Your statement is based in ethnocentrism, not facts. Like I said, the NCSoft financials show how much it makes and based on that number, every quarter, people can estimate the minimum number of subscribing players much more accurately than can be done with EQ.
    I'm not using any facts, because I'm not making any claims.

    I am -very doubtful- Lineage is one of the highest populated MMO, simply because it's not playable in many places, nowhere in the West.

    But I'm willing to be proven wrong, with evidence.

    I'm asking to back up the claim that you support: "Lineage has one the highest population of any MMO in the world", with evidence,..or to retract your support for the claim.
    http://mmoculture.com/2016/02/ncsoft-new-financial-report-highlights-how-each-ip-performed/#prettyphoto/0/

    Look at how much Lineage makes compared to Guild Wars 2 which we all know is one of the top mmos out right now. 





    What do you think comes after WoW?

    Everquest and Everquest 2?
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited February 2016

    Torval said:

    Kiyoris said:
    Well, you attacked EQ. I simply pointed out that Tab based PVE games with good PVE endgame are the ones lasting, not action MMO.

    EQ1/EQ2, WoW and Final Fantasy are the games with retention. Not Lineage, Aion, Arecheage or Black Desert.
    You made two claims but didn't support either with facts, again. You do that a lot, like you premise that if it's not played in EU/US then it can't possibly be popular globally.
    Of course, to be absolutely correct, I should have added "The West".

    But then it wasn't me who had to move his goalposts to include Asia to explain the rather doubtful claim that Lineage 1, is one of the most played MMO worldwide.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,771
    F2P in 3 to 6 months. This game niche at best. 
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Recore said:

    What do you think comes after WoW?

    Everquest and Everquest 2?
    I think it would be Final Fantasy XIV, still.


  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    edited February 2016
    Kiyoris said:
    Recore said:

    What do you think comes after WoW?

    Everquest and Everquest 2?
    I think it would be Final Fantasy XIV, still.




    You need to read your own article. Its not current sub numbers. Its how many have been created in total since its release. 

    Lineage is almost 20 years old. Can you imagine how many accounts have been created?



    Do you have a chart showing higher revenue for Final Fantasy then Lineage?


    And that still would not prove Lineage was not one of the top.


  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Torval said:
    Kiyoris said:
    Recore said:

    What do you think comes after WoW?

    Everquest and Everquest 2?
    I think it would be Final Fantasy XIV, still.


    The article is a bunch of tripe
    of course it is
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Well, this thread turned into a bunch of pedantic horseshit. 
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,645


    I'm glad this game doesn't hold your hand. It kind of reminds me of the old days when you didn't have all the resources outside the game. This game might struggle though, since a lot of younger gamers today don't have the attention spans to play games with complicated systems.



    In all honesty, that argument doesn't really hold for me. If someone was giving you a quest they'd tell you where to go. The old, vague designs were simply lazy.

    Exploring for the sake of exploring is fun (ala GW2). Searching for quest mobs/objectives isn't fun.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,645
    edited February 2016

    kitarad said:

    What I have seen here is people taking the weasel way out and dismissing it as another Korean grinder dressed up with nicer graphics. Pity that people cannot take the time to appreciate the game and enjoy it in spite of the lack of information. Anything worth taking time and learning should be good for the genre in the long run.



    I'm waiting a month or two after release to see how the dust settles before even considering trying it. The fact that it's Korean only reinforces my desire to wait and be skeptical. I want to know how it holds up longer term.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    Holy Hijack batman.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,437

    http://mmos.com/editorials/most-popular-mmorpgs-world


    #14 Lineage
    Over 43 million registered users

    NCSoft's original Lineage game is still incredibly popular, despite being released over 17 years ago back in September, 1998. Despite the game's North American servers shutting down on June 29, 2011, the Korean and Chinese versions remain incredibly profitable, with Lineage also being one of the most profitable MMORPGs in the world. Lineage 2 was not nearly as successful as the first game and Lineage Eternal is the last game in the franchise.


    It is always hard to guess what the number of players for a game is. Companies just do not feel comfortable revealing them anymore. We do know based off of the financials that NCSoft makes more money from Lineage 1 than any other game they have.

    With a bit delays, NCsoft revealed its second quarter 2015 financial report where we can find out some interesting facts about NCsoft's portfolio. Lineage 1 is still the main source of NCsoft's earnings due to its phenomenal performance in Asia, especially in South Korea, even after so many years. The sales and profits booster also attributes to the decent growth of Lineage 2 and Blade & Soul's strong performance.




    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • ReesRacerReesRacer Member UncommonPosts: 179
    The last couple of days, I've been going through the "BDO Bible" in 25-page sets (it's over 250 pages). For those that have not played in the betas, it's not going to make as much sense, but it is (extraordinarily) valuable information, nevertheless.

    Is Black Desert EVE-like dense? No. Is it unfamiliar? Yes.

    I think what is important to understand is that there will be a (very) small percentage in this game that can actually spend the time (I'm talking 8+ hours/day for weeks-months) to keep their character(s) at near max-level....whatever that is...~56 realistically.

    I'm curious to see how well the more PvE-inclined players take to the game. The intricate systems are certainly in place. I suspect straight-up PK and griefing will be minimalised due to the heavy penalties. Some players will go outlaw, and take everything that goes with it, though, just because they can.
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207
    I like logging in and being completely overwhelmed and lost. That's the point of a new MMO.

    Who in their right mind wants to log into a new MMO and know and understand everything? Where's the fun in that? Where have players problem solving skills and exploration gone?
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,437
    Torval said:
    I'm glad this game doesn't hold your hand. It kind of reminds me of the old days when you didn't have all the resources outside the game. This game might struggle though, since a lot of younger gamers today don't have the attention spans to play games with complicated systems.
    In all honesty, that argument doesn't really hold for me. If someone was giving you a quest they'd tell you where to go. The old, vague designs were simply lazy.

    Exploring for the sake of exploring is fun (ala GW2). Searching for quest mobs/objectives isn't fun.
    It does tell you where the quest is and usually shows it right on the map. It also offers a highlighted trail and auto pathing to the area. From there it's up to the player to read the quest and complete the objective in the area. Some I found easier and right in your face and a few others I had to read through a few times.

    I did a little exploring and found some enclaves of mobs and that was fine. I didn't have enough play time to do serious exploring.

    Waiting, given your apprehension, makes a lot of sense. I'm actually waiting to buy for a few reasons. I'm pretty sure I'll play eventually, but I'm not in a hurry. I do think very highly of my experience so far though.

    @blueturtle13 you're my hero! :D
    =D

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    L2P
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,403
    I like an aspect of buy the box. Its an issue many developers are dealing with that buy the box corrects a little for less popular titles. Bots/gold farmers.
    Yes buying the box does not get rid of them, but a pay wall severely limits their activity. In the end, even if there are bots and gold farmers then at least they are paying retail to do so.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,771
    Like other posters here, I too don't like my hand to be held. That being said, I think this article has a valid point.

    I've read lots of people new to the game log on and get really confused by all the stuff on the screen and what to do. The combat system is unique, the UI is unique. It's not what typical MMO players are used to.

    Many of those that got confused seemed to have a really bad impression of the game.
  • wiennaswiennas Member UncommonPosts: 67
    Interestingly, how the author of the article dismiss all critics and address only his opinion as ''real.'' It (was) hyped on the level of Final Fantasy, GW2,..until the moment more people have try out this game and figure out, what you can achive with marketing,... even if you sell empty products. Bdo is outside graphics, below average mmo.
  • rmk70rmk70 Member UncommonPosts: 408
    This article mostly just highlights how ADD gamers are these days. Makes me feel old, but when I was playing UO, half of the fun was about discovery, learning new things about the game, slowly growing your character.

    WoW-ization has really taken away from the genre.
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Member UncommonPosts: 211

    Foncl said:

    This game, just like EvE, isn't going to appeal to people who lack patience. There are several other MMORPGs for those people.



    Here is all the information you need to get started in the game, the BDO Bible: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JnFambQifvui7-V68QMsfuXuhAuu4C0NsVJCxJIv84E/preview?pref=2&pli=1



    Agreed I have been trying to tell people this for weeks, everyone wants to compare this game to other themepark mmo's with dungeons raids and gear treadmills and its not, the most comparable game to to this is eve. Eve never had millions of players but thats fine, their success is in having hundreds of thousands of players for 13 years. So if you liked eve or wanted to like eve but hate space games (aka me) then this game is for you.
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Member UncommonPosts: 211



    Sovrath said:



    Not EVERYONE wants to be lost or confused while playing games. So while yes, I see it as a fun aspect to BDO, this process of learning, I see Steve's point.


    Case in point, why Turbine remade the Old Forest in Lotro. The first iteration was incredible. Now? It's just an easy set of corridors with what looks like tree painted walls.

    In any case, he's right, there are people who don't like being lost or confused. They don't enjoy that "oh dear! I have no idea where I am and I'm in a danger zone" feeling.


    God, I missed the OLD Old Forest. I got lost so much back then.



    I think that BDO is trying to recapture that Old Forest feel, it won't be for everyone and that's ok. Eve Online and the Original SWG were not for everyone too. The people those games weren't for went and played EQ, EQ2 and WoW. I guess people are just so used to themepark mmo's that they don't know how to even look at a game that isn't one of those any more.

    Eve doesn't have raids or dungeons and I've never heard anyone say well eve has no end game, cause the entire game is end game. My hope is that all this publicity will make it so that the people look for a themepark won't even try bdo, that bdo will hit 500-750 thousand subs, maybe there are even more of us than that, who are actually looking for a old school experience and they game will develop along those lines rather than pandering to the millions who want to change it into the game they want.
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