Well, despite the minimal advantages the cosmetic gear might have. People will simply cry murder about P2W because any advantage is an advantage. The stat increases on cosmetic gear is nice, but it's not going to win you any PvP battles. If or when Daum / Pearl Abyss start selling black stones and such on the market, then you can complain BDO is P2W. Right now, these stats are no different than XP or Health potions. Neither of which are going to craft you a set of +16 to +19 gear. By the way, can you sell cash shop items from BDO in the game? Nope! So good luck funneling cash in for in-game coin to buy the best gear. People amaze me with their lack of insight.
That's the problem with a lot of mmo gamers these days, they speculate and speculate to the point they seem to be trying to make themselves dislike a game. They don't even try to take the time to understand the game or anything really.
"OMG stats"
"Do you know what those stats do?"
"ehhh.."
"How do you know it's P2W?"
"Because stats man"
Like I said always against P2W, but if some one can show me how jumping 0.5m is gonna give me and advantage i'm all ears.
UGH I thought it was not going to be P2W. FUCK why cant someone just make a game like this that you can MAKE costumes, or MAKE furniture that is cool. Why can't someone do that? They are just like everyone out there, they don't give a f*** about us, they just want money.
Well don't you? Or do you go to work simply to go to work?
These games take x amount of dollars to develop and continue to develop.
While I'm all for a subscription, players don't want to pay them anymore. In some ways I understand because game companies were never able to supply enough content to keep players paying and not minding it.
But the thing is, things have gotten more expensive yet game companies don't really ask for a huge amount more based on inflation.
Just as you go to work to make your daily bread, so to employees at game companies.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The only p2w problem that bdo has is buying customes or pets from the cashshop and selling them on the market..
But then you are stomped with the amount of real money you need to put in it in order to become godlike..
For example.
A 50 euro/dollar suit sells for 50 mill on the market/AH. ( set prices from korea migth be different slighty)
A +17 gear on your char.. costs around 60 mill.. you have 8 slots.. so in order to get geared(assuming you can buy those gear from market) you need to put serieus money into bdo.
UGH I thought it was not going to be P2W. FUCK why cant someone just make a game like this that you can MAKE costumes, or MAKE furniture that is cool. Why can't someone do that? They are just like everyone out there, they don't give a f*** about us, they just want money.
It's pay2win, everyone already knew this who played the game in other regions. I made a thread about it and half the people were still in denial.
Anyway.
Why pearls instead of direct cash?
Nexon does this too, so do most Korean MMO. Making people buy a currency instead of items directly, apparently makes them spend more, because it doesn't seem like you're spending real money with a currency like pearls.
Every game does it that way, even ESO and GW2. In ESO you buy Crowns which then buys you items, in GW2 you buy gems which then gets you items, etc.
Yup, you buy the game and then get introduced to the cash shop. They are introducing us to the kinder and gentler cash shop.
Cash shop in a buy to play mmo is not a problem. But man im still sour about those 3 lines of inventory space. I doubt you will be able to unlock at least half of the total space just by playing. Really greedy.
You can unlock a lot of inventory by doing certain quests. In KR I never found a need to buy any inventory space. You can also get more by crafting a carriage and taking that out grinding with you. But honestly you need to worry about weight limit more than inventory. You will go over your weight limit long before you run out of inventory spots most of the time. But weight limit too you can earn in game. And both weight and inventory can also be purchased via the daily login shop too.
What I'd like to know is how this is different fom the F2P versions elsewhere that would justify the B2P entry fee we have in NA and EU. Does anyone know how the cash shops in the full-on F2P releases are different?
It looks like a typical F2P cash shop to me. It's nothing like ESO's or TSW's or even GW2's.
It has me scratching my head about the B2P entry fee. Is it just a surcharge for us?
Yep, if this was B2P like ESO or even GW2 then I probably would have bought in. I like a lot about the game. It has a lot thought and detail put into it and the combat is pretty fun. I just don't see spending a box fee plus a bunch of extra cash shop money.
I bought a house and was going to decorate it with stuff from the default selection. It came to what I thought was 5500 silver, but it was it was 5500 pearls. That seemed like a huge chunk of change for what it was.
I'm fine with the cash shop and a box fee. I just don't feel the value for what they're asking compared to my other options and then at the end I'll be doing pvp which isn't my favorite thing anymore.
ESO and GW2 charge for expansion packs. Black Desert does not. Further ESO also has an optional subscription and GW2 allows you to convert real life cash to in game gold via the cash shop to buy whatever you want. Black Desert doesn't have any of those things. So they're making less money and they're also avoiding the RMT crap that GW2 has.
Further, you can both buy and craft furniture in game. There are furniture vendors in cities and towns (and other vendors to sell you things like lighting fixtures, etc.) And you can also craft a lot of furniture and housing items as well. You don't need the cash shop furniture.
Yeah they went too far with the amount of "convenience items" that are basically a must have. Looting pets, bag space + weight and warehouse space are must haves from what I've seen so far, there's probably more. There's no doubt they are selling advantages in the cash shop, even if I've seen worse.
I wish a game like this could just be buy to play or free to play and if you pay 15$/month you get all the "convenience" stuff in the cash shop, first month you get it for free if it's b2p. Don't sell anything in the cash shop that provides an advantage, not matter how small.
It's too bad, it seems like an interesting game to me so far but I've only played to lvl 25. I won't be buying it with the current state of the cash shop that's for sure.
Bag space and warehouse space are both easily attainable in game and also available in the free daily log in shop (Mileage).
Seriously OP? Stop man. XP bonuses? That's a problem? 1% movement speed for a horse?
1% movement speed on a horse, +1 Gathering, and other 'small bonuses' are only the start. Daum Games CLEARLY STATED that they WOULD NOT include ANY PAY2WIN content in their cash shop. With these small stat bonuses, even before release, they're clearly trying to see how far they can go before the playerbase turns away and they can do their original play to make the game 'Free2Play' (which I think happens before the end of the year...)
They're not trying to push anything. Those are the exact same completely irrelevant stat bonuses that they have in KR.
Here I can even prove it. Here's me in a Christmas Outfit I purchased in January on the KR server - a YEAR after the KR game came out. The stats are meaningless:
Should we take bets on how long it takes until the shop becomes completely P2W like Archeage? Winner gets 1000 internet points.
half the pay2win stuff like revival and potions they said they wil put in the game isn't even in yet
They actually said the exact opposite. They said they'd remove any questionable cash shop items completely which they've done, and some would be put in the daily login currency/loyalty shop which they've done and you can purchase them with Mileage points.
You guys can call me a Tinfoil Hat all you want but these stats while not game breaking are little advantages in game, Asian company's like this one are trying for years to get the western market to accept p2w since it gives them huge profits in their home markets but this can't be applied here so far since a lot of western mmo players don't like p2w we just have very different mentality and culture from the eastern players that accept it like sheep because they are more casual and allrdy trained from the mobile market, so this is like a soft p2w they are trying to train us to accept it in the long run it's psychology.
Seriously OP? Stop man. XP bonuses? That's a problem? 1% movement speed for a horse?
1% movement speed on a horse, +1 Gathering, and other 'small bonuses' are only the start. Daum Games CLEARLY STATED that they WOULD NOT include ANY PAY2WIN content in their cash shop. With these small stat bonuses, even before release, they're clearly trying to see how far they can go before the playerbase turns away and they can do their original play to make the game 'Free2Play' (which I think happens before the end of the year...)
They're not trying to push anything. Those are the exact same completely irrelevant stat bonuses that they have in KR.
Here I can even prove it. Here's me in a Christmas Outfit I purchased in January on the KR server - a YEAR after the KR game came out. The stats are meaningless:
UGH I thought it was not going to be P2W. FUCK why cant someone just make a game like this that you can MAKE costumes, or MAKE furniture that is cool. Why can't someone do that? They are just like everyone out there, they don't give a f*** about us, they just want money.
You can craft furniture in game. In fact that's the primary method of obtaining furniture. You can also buy basic housing items from in game vendors. As for the "stats", do you find 10% XP and 0.5m JUMP HEIGHT P2W?
Jesus Christ people have you all lost your fucking marbles? There's nothing P2W about this cash shop, it's truthfully one of the best in terms of itemization and the fact that you can't sell any of it in game is amazing. You all need to actually research the damn game because the vast majority of those items in the cash shop is either a)easily obtainable in game and that's the primary method of doing so or b) offers similar items in the Mileage/loyalty/daily log in shop for free. I never felt a need to purchase anything in the cash shop in KR aside from one costume. I would have purchased pets but I got 2 pets for free in various in game events in KR.
It's Friday. How about you all get drunk and chill out and actually look at a game before crying wolf. I'd be the first to shit on any game and I've criticized Daum EU for other bad decisions they've made, but this is honestly one of their best decisions. Anybody who actually knows anything about this and other games knows that to be true.
The only p2w problem that bdo has is buying customes or pets from the cashshop and selling them on the market..
But then you are stomped with the amount of real money you need to put in it in order to become godlike..
For example.
A 50 euro/dollar suit sells for 50 mill on the market/AH. ( set prices from korea migth be different slighty)
A +17 gear on your char.. costs around 60 mill.. you have 8 slots.. so in order to get geared(assuming you can buy those gear from market) you need to put serieus money into bdo.
Topic:
i dont see any p2w items from the cashshop.
You can't sell them on the market. Any tooltips are left over from KR where you can. They've disabled that for NA/EU.
Hmm this thing about skins (costumes) not selling well. Can we a have a damn link or some kind of proof? I know that in this forum getting things from someones ass is pretty common but can you just for once make an exception?
p.s. before providing a link from a specific game developer: the statement was made in general. so please some kind of global analysis. thank you.
p.p.s. Blade and soul has costumes without stats. I don't see them complaining.
Seriously OP? Stop man. XP bonuses? That's a problem? 1% movement speed for a horse?
1% movement speed on a horse, +1 Gathering, and other 'small bonuses' are only the start. Daum Games CLEARLY STATED that they WOULD NOT include ANY PAY2WIN content in their cash shop. With these small stat bonuses, even before release, they're clearly trying to see how far they can go before the playerbase turns away and they can do their original play to make the game 'Free2Play' (which I think happens before the end of the year...)
They're not trying to push anything. Those are the exact same completely irrelevant stat bonuses that they have in KR.
Here I can even prove it. Here's me in a Christmas Outfit I purchased in January on the KR server - a YEAR after the KR game came out. The stats are meaningless:
+30% combat exp? That isn't P2w?
It's 10% but since there is effectively no level cap and progression is centered around grinding, 10% will add up to a rather large advantage over time. I wouldn't call it P2W, but it is certainly an advantage. I don't understand why they have to put bonuses on $30 costumes. There's also a boat license that you can sell on the market for 800k. Hopefully that gets removed. Also, the RNG dye boxes really irritate me. I absolutely detest RNG boxes, and for them to put dye of all things in a RNG box is freaking ridiculous.
Cant tell if thats P2W unless you know what you can earn in the game. Having stats on cash shop items is no big deal. Unless it breaks loot balance in the game. Or if cash shop items are needed to compete with other players.
Seriously OP? Stop man. XP bonuses? That's a problem? 1% movement speed for a horse?
1% movement speed on a horse, +1 Gathering, and other 'small bonuses' are only the start. Daum Games CLEARLY STATED that they WOULD NOT include ANY PAY2WIN content in their cash shop. With these small stat bonuses, even before release, they're clearly trying to see how far they can go before the playerbase turns away and they can do their original play to make the game 'Free2Play' (which I think happens before the end of the year...)
They're not trying to push anything. Those are the exact same completely irrelevant stat bonuses that they have in KR.
Here I can even prove it. Here's me in a Christmas Outfit I purchased in January on the KR server - a YEAR after the KR game came out. The stats are meaningless:
+30% combat exp? That isn't P2w?
Speeding up the leveling process means nothing. End game you are still on equal footing in PvP.
I think that's an unfair characterization whether the result ends up being the same.
The game really does have some well thought out detail to it. It's not a short collection of simple systems glued together with the thinnest of pretenses.
Unfortunately money is a reality and people focus on it heavily. What this discussion overlooks or paints poorly is that there is a very good game beyond all this. Just right now I think they're asking a little too much for it.
This is my main issue with it. Also the lack of endgame is kind of a big let down for me.
P.S. Little digging and reading this thread. I dont think this is P2W but I do think the cash shop is over priced. I would never pay 32 bucks US for a cosmetic set of armor. Also think its a rip off to dip twice into a cash transaction into inventory slots. Once for slots and once for weight restrictions. But who knows? Maybe there is fair ways to earn that in game. Still not sold on this game.
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/"OMG stats"
"Do you know what those stats do?"
"ehhh.."
"How do you know it's P2W?"
"Because stats man"
Like I said always against P2W, but if some one can show me how jumping 0.5m is gonna give me and advantage i'm all ears.
These games take x amount of dollars to develop and continue to develop.
While I'm all for a subscription, players don't want to pay them anymore. In some ways I understand because game companies were never able to supply enough content to keep players paying and not minding it.
But the thing is, things have gotten more expensive yet game companies don't really ask for a huge amount more based on inflation.
Just as you go to work to make your daily bread, so to employees at game companies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The only p2w problem that bdo has is buying customes or pets from the cashshop and selling them on the market..
But then you are stomped with the amount of real money you need to put in it in order to become godlike..
For example.
A 50 euro/dollar suit sells for 50 mill on the market/AH. ( set prices from korea migth be different slighty)
A +17 gear on your char.. costs around 60 mill.. you have 8 slots.. so in order to get geared(assuming you can buy those gear from market) you need to put serieus money into bdo.
Topic:
i dont see any p2w items from the cashshop.
PASS!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Further, you can both buy and craft furniture in game. There are furniture vendors in cities and towns (and other vendors to sell you things like lighting fixtures, etc.) And you can also craft a lot of furniture and housing items as well. You don't need the cash shop furniture.
Bag space and warehouse space are both easily attainable in game and also available in the free daily log in shop (Mileage).
Here I can even prove it. Here's me in a Christmas Outfit I purchased in January on the KR server - a YEAR after the KR game came out. The stats are meaningless:
They actually said the exact opposite. They said they'd remove any questionable cash shop items completely which they've done, and some would be put in the daily login currency/loyalty shop which they've done and you can purchase them with Mileage points.
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/
Not true. You can't sell any cash shop items in game on NA/EU. They've stated that clearly numerous times.
Except after the game being in KR for over a year and also in RU and JP, those boxes don't actually exist. They can't sell something they don't have.
(-_-)
Jesus Christ people have you all lost your fucking marbles? There's nothing P2W about this cash shop, it's truthfully one of the best in terms of itemization and the fact that you can't sell any of it in game is amazing. You all need to actually research the damn game because the vast majority of those items in the cash shop is either a)easily obtainable in game and that's the primary method of doing so or b) offers similar items in the Mileage/loyalty/daily log in shop for free. I never felt a need to purchase anything in the cash shop in KR aside from one costume. I would have purchased pets but I got 2 pets for free in various in game events in KR.
It's Friday. How about you all get drunk and chill out and actually look at a game before crying wolf. I'd be the first to shit on any game and I've criticized Daum EU for other bad decisions they've made, but this is honestly one of their best decisions. Anybody who actually knows anything about this and other games knows that to be true.
You can't sell them on the market. Any tooltips are left over from KR where you can. They've disabled that for NA/EU.
(-_-)
p.s. before providing a link from a specific game developer: the statement was made in general. so please some kind of global analysis. thank you.
p.p.s. Blade and soul has costumes without stats. I don't see them complaining.
It's 10% but since there is effectively no level cap and progression is centered around grinding, 10% will add up to a rather large advantage over time. I wouldn't call it P2W, but it is certainly an advantage. I don't understand why they have to put bonuses on $30 costumes. There's also a boat license that you can sell on the market for 800k. Hopefully that gets removed. Also, the RNG dye boxes really irritate me. I absolutely detest RNG boxes, and for them to put dye of all things in a RNG box is freaking ridiculous.