Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is it all just HYPE for something new?

2»

Comments

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    I think we've passed the point in time where a new MMO needs to be a game that will last you non-stop for years. I think we should embrace games that offer a few months, even weeks, of gameplay at a time. That doesn't mean I don't long for a "one true game" to sink all my time into. Rather, I think we should be cognizant that just because a game only lasts so long doesn't mean it's not worth the ride.
    I agree, and I think it's a trend that will only become more prevalent as time goes by. 

    The average gamer has been playing MMO's in the 2-3 month timeframe for years already. You can see it with every new MMO launch.

    It's far more cost-effective to build something like Division as opposed to SWTOR. Bungie has already announced Destiny 2, which will undoubtedly sell more than an expansion of Destiny 1. And a "new" version of the game gives the developer far more room to change game play fundamentally.
  • mklinicmklinic Member RarePosts: 1,976
    I think we've passed the point in time where a new MMO needs to be a game that will last you non-stop for years. I think we should embrace games that offer a few months, even weeks, of gameplay at a time. That doesn't mean I don't long for a "one true game" to sink all my time into. Rather, I think we should be cognizant that just because a game only lasts so long doesn't mean it's not worth the ride.
    That post probably warrants a thread of its own. That said, I can't fully agree. I mean, I can agree with the 'enjoy the ride' sentiment. We play games to enjoy them after all. Through the lens of MMOs though, why bother with a persistent world if you have no intention of...persisting? Conversely, is there even a sizable market of gamers, who are not already invested in a long term game, who are looking for that?

    Ultimately, I imagine it comes down to how you view the term 'MMO'. Seems every one has a definition that slightly varies to their personal tastes. Personally though, I think there are plenty of bite size single-player/co-op games to scratch the 'enjoy the ride' itch and that (for my definition) an MMO should be more then a co-op/lobby (not specifically referring to The Division with this statement) game that gets rotated out in short order.

    -mklinic

    "Do something right, no one remembers.
    Do something wrong, no one forgets"
    -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence

  • DeniZgDeniZg Member UncommonPosts: 697
    DMKano said:
     I think looking for this perfect single game that would remain the only game to hold someones attention for years is just an expectation that's impossible to meet.
    Some FPS shooters, MOBA's, "Soulsborne" games, Skyrim etc.? 
    I think quality games always stay around longer.
  • ScottgunScottgun Member UncommonPosts: 528
    edited February 2016
    Just FYI, a video dedicated to addressing the hype problem:



    What I found interesting was the comments by a guest who hasn't been following The Division hype and went into the closed beta with few preconceived notions.
  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Yea........If I want limited gameplay time I just stick with single player games. But for an MMO? Im looking for something long term.


  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    I think we've passed the point in time where a new MMO needs to be a game that will last you non-stop for years. I think we should embrace games that offer a few months, even weeks, of gameplay at a time. That doesn't mean I don't long for a "one true game" to sink all my time into. Rather, I think we should be cognizant that just because a game only lasts so long doesn't mean it's not worth the ride.
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    DMKano said:
    DeniZg said:
    DMKano said:
     I think looking for this perfect single game that would remain the only game to hold someones attention for years is just an expectation that's impossible to meet.
    Some FPS shooters, MOBA's, "Soulsborne" games, Skyrim etc.? 
    I think quality games always stay around longer.

    While quality games stay around longer is true that wasn't my point. 

    What I am saying is someone dedicating all their time to a single game for years (just playing that one game and nothing else) - that's an unrealistic expectation.


    I mainly played EVE for about 6 years, but during that time I took a few 1 or 2 month breaks to play some newly-launched single-player games. It's certainly possible to "mainly" play one particular game for many years, it's just not the way the average gamer plays.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Jonas_SG said:


    But the price is big, really big even for an MMO, 60 to 90€ - that's a lot.

    And than their is already a talk about Paid DLC? ?

    So not like e.g. EQ1 then that had paid DLC every 6 months?
  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?
    does it even matter?

    I used to play EQ2 using Vent even though EQ2 had a built in voice engine but nobody cared.

    unless there is something tangible and measurable that the integration can bring that other methods can not then its a waste of effort.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    I think we've passed the point in time where a new MMO needs to be a game that will last you non-stop for years. I think we should embrace games that offer a few months, even weeks, of gameplay at a time. That doesn't mean I don't long for a "one true game" to sink all my time into. Rather, I think we should be cognizant that just because a game only lasts so long doesn't mean it's not worth the ride.
    Agree. Is this new though?

    A long time ago - 5th anniversary? - SoE put out some info on EQ1: how many miles you could travel etc. - what today would be an infographic. One of the numbers was churn and from memory it was 60% monthly. Suggesting that things may not be that different today.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Jonas_SG said:

    Is it?

    The game only have 30 levels, there are no raids, and questionable End game.

    But the price is big, really big even for an MMO, 60 to 90€ - that's a lot.

    And than their is already a talk about Paid DLC? Even thou the game hasn't released they are already selling DLC that no one have seen.

    Are they just trying to Cash in big on a Hype train?

    What do you think?

    Yes, looks like they're cashing in on the hype train.  Hype says the game is great.  That you will enjoy it so much you want to order the DLC in advance.  

    I always wonder what is it the hype train is leaving out.

    On that note I see Steam put up a pre-load option for open beta yesterday.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    "I think we've passed the point in time where a new MMO needs to be a game that will last you non-stop for years. I think we should embrace games that offer a few months, even weeks, of gameplay at a time. That doesn't mean I don't long for a "one true game" to sink all my time into. Rather, I think we should be cognizant that just because a game only lasts so long doesn't mean it's not worth the ride."

    If this is true, it marks the point where many will find the genre to truly be incompatible with their needs. This is a situation where the producers have determined houses to be too hard to build, so they build travel trailers that fall apart and everyone must simply swallow the fact that they have to buy junk to get something modern. 

    I imagine other industries have done this in the past, but this is why the MMORPG industry has singled itself out as following a purely financially driven de-evolution in design. The industry has failed to produce content with longevity and has proclaimed this sound barrier unbreakable even though the first generation games broke the sound barrier all the time.

    Some will argue that there is no point going back to the moon, but at some point man will return, to the purpose of greater travels that will demarcate the next great advances of mankind.

    In short, we have been let down by the current bunch of code pasters who inhabit well worn chairs and have cashed in imagination for a stipend built on the death of expansion.  
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    SEANMCAD said:
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?
    does it even matter?

    I used to play EQ2 using Vent even though EQ2 had a built in voice engine but nobody cared.

    unless there is something tangible and measurable that the integration can bring that other methods can not then its a waste of effort.
    It matters if you're not part of the first wave of people who have plowed through the shallow content and left.  Hard to play a game based on group activity when there's no one left to group with.  May as well just say we're done with the MMO genre and stick with solo or lobby games.

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?
    does it even matter?

    I used to play EQ2 using Vent even though EQ2 had a built in voice engine but nobody cared.

    unless there is something tangible and measurable that the integration can bring that other methods can not then its a waste of effort.
    It matters if you're not part of the first wave of people who have plowed through the shallow content and left.  Hard to play a game based on group activity when there's no one left to group with.  May as well just say we're done with the MMO genre and stick with solo or lobby games.
    let me ask again. 

    please read very carefully.

    what is the difference in an MMO between using the built in voice chat and using Vent?

    NOTHING...there is zero game play add to that.

    So the point is unless your intergration of social to a game brings something SPECIFIC AND MEASUREABLE to the table that can not be done outside of the game then its a waste of time. What App domain the feature runs in doesnt really matter to the user.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    edited February 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?
    does it even matter?

    I used to play EQ2 using Vent even though EQ2 had a built in voice engine but nobody cared.

    unless there is something tangible and measurable that the integration can bring that other methods can not then its a waste of effort.
    It matters if you're not part of the first wave of people who have plowed through the shallow content and left.  Hard to play a game based on group activity when there's no one left to group with.  May as well just say we're done with the MMO genre and stick with solo or lobby games.
    let me ask again. 

    please read very carefully.

    what is the difference in an MMO between using the built in voice chat and using Vent?

    NOTHING...there is zero game play add to that.

    So the point is unless your intergration of social to a game brings something SPECIFIC AND MEASUREABLE to the table that can not be done outside of the game then its a waste of time. What App domain the feature runs in doesnt really matter to the user.
    Where are you getting built-in voice chat versus Vent?  No one's talking about that but you.  We're talking about people playing a game longer than a few weeks at a time not how they communicate in-game.  It doesn't matter how they can choose to communicate if there isn't anyone there to communicate in the first place.  Before you correct someone else, you might want to pay attention to what they are talking about first.

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    gervaise1 said:
    That means abandoning the social aspects of MMOs (what some would say make up the very fabric of MMOs) entirely.  You can't build a community in a game with people who are there for a couple of weeks then gone for months til the next update.
    People build communities outside of a game though using communication / social media tool X - and move together to different games or they could even be playing different games!
    What does that have to do with what I said about building a community in a game?
    does it even matter?

    I used to play EQ2 using Vent even though EQ2 had a built in voice engine but nobody cared.

    unless there is something tangible and measurable that the integration can bring that other methods can not then its a waste of effort.
    It matters if you're not part of the first wave of people who have plowed through the shallow content and left.  Hard to play a game based on group activity when there's no one left to group with.  May as well just say we're done with the MMO genre and stick with solo or lobby games.
    let me ask again. 

    please read very carefully.

    what is the difference in an MMO between using the built in voice chat and using Vent?

    NOTHING...there is zero game play add to that.

    So the point is unless your intergration of social to a game brings something SPECIFIC AND MEASUREABLE to the table that can not be done outside of the game then its a waste of time. What App domain the feature runs in doesnt really matter to the user.
    Where are you getting built-in voice chat versus Vent?  No one's talking about that but you.  We're talking about people playing a game longer than a few weeks at a time not how they communicate in-game.  It doesn't matter how they can choose to communicate if there isn't anyone there to communicate in the first place.  Before you correct someone else, you might want to pay attention to what they are talking about first.
    I am using that as an example of how much of in game socialization is not needed because its just as easy to build an 'in game social' presence by using existing technology that isnt even in the game. and if one INSISTS on it being in the game then I will just give you an in game web browser

    clear?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    SEANMCAD said:

    I am using that as an example of how much of in game socialization is not needed because its just as easy to build an 'in game social' presence by using existing technology that isnt even in the game. and if one INSISTS on it being in the game then I will just give you an in game web browser

    clear?
    Very clear, and completely irrelevant to what I said.  The discussion isn't about ways people can communicate, the discussion is about people have to be playing the same game in the first place.  It doesn't do me a damn bit of good to be able to talk to you in Vent if we're playing two different games, and I'm looking for a group in the game I'm playing.

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:

    I am using that as an example of how much of in game socialization is not needed because its just as easy to build an 'in game social' presence by using existing technology that isnt even in the game. and if one INSISTS on it being in the game then I will just give you an in game web browser

    clear?
    Very clear, and completely irrelevant to what I said.  The discussion isn't about ways people can communicate, the discussion is about people have to be playing the same game in the first place.  It doesn't do me a damn bit of good to be able to talk to you in Vent if we're playing two different games, and I'm looking for a group in the game I'm playing.
    so its not about socialization in video games?

    ok well my bad. To be clear i am NOT ONLY talking about talking. I am talking about any and all social aspects in gaming

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Member UncommonPosts: 323
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    I am using that as an example of how much of in game socialization is not needed because its just as easy to build an 'in game social' presence by using existing technology that isnt even in the game. and if one INSISTS on it being in the game then I will just give you an in game web browser

    clear?
    Very clear, and completely irrelevant to what I said.  The discussion isn't about ways people can communicate, the discussion is about people have to be playing the same game in the first place.  It doesn't do me a damn bit of good to be able to talk to you in Vent if we're playing two different games, and I'm looking for a group in the game I'm playing.
    so its not about socialization in video games?

    ok well my bad. To be clear i am NOT ONLY talking about talking. I am talking about any and all social aspects in gaming
    How are people who are not part of the initial wave and not part of an existing guild benefited by shorter-duration games where everyone plays two weeks and is gone?  Why would I want to join a group of people who hop from game to game if all I'm interested in is playing a specific game that they won't be around to participate in?

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    I am using that as an example of how much of in game socialization is not needed because its just as easy to build an 'in game social' presence by using existing technology that isnt even in the game. and if one INSISTS on it being in the game then I will just give you an in game web browser

    clear?
    Very clear, and completely irrelevant to what I said.  The discussion isn't about ways people can communicate, the discussion is about people have to be playing the same game in the first place.  It doesn't do me a damn bit of good to be able to talk to you in Vent if we're playing two different games, and I'm looking for a group in the game I'm playing.
    so its not about socialization in video games?

    ok well my bad. To be clear i am NOT ONLY talking about talking. I am talking about any and all social aspects in gaming
    How are people who are not part of the initial wave and not part of an existing guild benefited by shorter-duration games where everyone plays two weeks and is gone?  Why would I want to join a group of people who hop from game to game if all I'm interested in is playing a specific game that they won't be around to participate in?
    so COD does not have a community filled with guilds who plan torunments? 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    Completely disagree with you Seanmcad.

    Some people, in fact, quite a few... simply don't use a chat service.  And literally NO ONE uses one while their out in the open world of a MMO, by themselves.  Want to know why?  Because the people in their channel aren't out exploring or question with them.  Sure, you may be able to stop and type out a message, but they may not even be paying any attention to chat.  Having an in-game voip allows even the most casual player to enjoy a social interaction at any point in their play session, with anyone, without loading up a 3rd party program.  Convenience is king in today's MMO market, so this feature is absolutely one that adds to any multiplayer experience in a big way.

    It's truly a shame that younger gamers have never had the chance to experience MMO's back in the 90's and early 2000's.  They were unbelievably social and that's one of the biggest things that brought people back.  Now, it's like driving a stick shift, it's almost a lost art.  Actually conversing with people?  That's ridiculous!  I feel sorry for people like you.  You just simply don't know any better, and it's really not your fault. 

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    DAS1337 said:
    Completely disagree with you Seanmcad.

    Some people, in fact, quite a few... simply don't use a chat service.  And literally NO ONE uses one while their out in the open world of a MMO, by themselves.  Want to know why?  Because the people in their channel aren't out exploring or question with them.  Sure, you may be able to stop and type out a message, but they may not even be paying any attention to chat.  Having an in-game voip allows even the most casual player to enjoy a social interaction at any point in their play session, with anyone, without loading up a 3rd party program.  Convenience is king in today's MMO market, so this feature is absolutely one that adds to any multiplayer experience in a big way.

    It's truly a shame that younger gamers have never had the chance to experience MMO's back in the 90's and early 2000's.  They were unbelievably social and that's one of the biggest things that brought people back.  Now, it's like driving a stick shift, it's almost a lost art.  Actually conversing with people?  That's ridiculous!  I feel sorry for people like you.  You just simply don't know any better, and it's really not your fault. 

    no that is not why.

    its usually because they dont want to socialize or they are very young or they dont speak English as assume the chat in english. Its not because of location. its extreemly common for guilds to create rooms for specific locations and specific events AND rooms for those who are not in those events. 
    Given that you likely already knew that I am not sure why you are taking this position. maybe you thought I dont know 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

Sign In or Register to comment.