Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you Purchase Heart of Thorns? Are You Thinking of Purchasing?

124

Comments

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    I purchased it, but do not think it was worth doing so since I see it did more harm to the game than good and will probably be what makes me stop playing the game. The changes they made to wvw with HoT pretty much killed RvR in this game. Unless they make drastic changes to reverse what they did with HoT and take it in a different direction, I am not sure if I will continue playing.  If it were not for family, guildies and friends, I would have been long gone already.

    The DBL maps need to be trashed and the new mechanics need to be tossed. " not Tweaked" but kicked to the curb they are so bad. The new maps are too big, gimmicky, PVE focused, lacking strategic PVP play. They keep players apart , too many escape routes and ability to avoid fights and you spend  all your time  on them looking for the action rather than being in it. They would probably be great PVE maps.. They should go there where they belong and create new PVP maps where the primary focus of them is to keep players involved in PVP action rather than never finding it. PVE Gimmicks have no place in a PvP environment. The DBL maps are pretty deserted, and many people have rage quit over them or are still actively boycotting them refusing to play them at all: 

    http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

    Instead of going in the direction to make WvW a self sustaining large scale fun and  challenging strategicPvP environment, they tried to force more PVE content, grind, and making it even more Pay to win to compete with the guild upgrade costs, completely eliminated the need to defend anything, roam, or use strategy. Before taking objectives had strategic purposes since you could hit  necessary targets from other targets, you had a reason to defend them. All of that was obsoleted with HoT.

    In addition some of the other things they brought in are just lame.. the centaur, turtle and dragon banners add to the Pay to win gimmicks  and grind as well as the guild upgrade defense abilities due  to what it costs to do so cannot be reasonable obtained in WvW, and tries to force people out of WvW to be able to provide the things required to play it. It honestly feels like they do not want people to play the game mode at all and would rather have them out grinding PvE in order to play it. If people are in PVE grinding, they obviously are not playing WvW. Those grinding in PVE cannot possible compete with the credit card players due to the amount of time it takes to earn what is needed to play vs the ease of just paying for it by buying gold and paying other players to do it for them for the items that have to be earned in game. and are not available on the TP, making the  game mode even more pay to win than it was before since it places  even less value on individual players skill and more on being able to purchase turtle banners,  guild upgrades for aerial attacks and such  in addition to the already pay to win aspects of making superior and guild siege so expensive in game. It pushed it over the edge to being extremely pay to win rather than bringing it more in line with  the "not pay to win" small  scale arena pvp. If they treated WvW  like a large scale PvP mode, similar to how they view the small arena PvP, they would  be heading in the right direction to improve the mode. The more they move away from this, the less players continue to play an the game mode dies even further.

    The only thing I see beneficial from the HoT was the class/ build improvements. Although, those improvements are not enough to make up for the damage done by the rest  of the update to make it even playable. AT this time, most do not consider the game mode even playable anymore due to it.  Those claiming players do not like change are off base, players LOVE change, when the changes are good, but not all changes are good. These changes are just bad.  The reason the  DBLS were evacuated even during the beta testing are because, yes the maps ARE that bad.  There is a huge difference between good change and bad.. and the numbers leaving wvw and refusing to play on  the DBLs speak for themselves.
    WvW is been showing more activity in the last few weeks.

    People resist change. The Desert Broderlands are quite nice maps. Some of the mechanics had to be tweaked and they were in the latest patch.

    The fact is that HoT added a metric ton of PvE content after a drought since the end of Living Story 2.

    I think the following blog post is quite right http://bhagpuss.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-end-of-world-vs-world-gw2.html

    "(...)This last week or two has seen more activity than any time since before HoT landed. We had commanders with followings on three maps at once over the weekend. There have been big battles over keeps on home BLs. And this isn't just on Yaks Bend. I spent fifty minutes with an EBay commander last week, trying to take a single heavily-defended tower from Maguuma (and how good was it to be fighting Maguuma again? Boy, I've missed them).

    Gradually, very slowly, as people finish up their initial goals in the new maps and the last of the new car smell fades from the expansion, the WvW softcore is drifting back. Meanwhile the hardcore, particularly the command structure, has acclimatized. Commanders actually know how to lead a zerg from Impassive Rampart to Fire Keep without falling in the lava lake now. Players are beginning to get an inkling of how the Shrine buffs can change tactics, of when it's advisable to complete or counter the Oasis event, of where to place siege so it actually hits something.

    It's been a steep learning curve and plenty have fallen off. Finally, though, some have made it to the top and others have picked themselves up and started to climb again. Just in time for today's Winter 2016 Quarterly Update to shake the ladder and send everyone flying in all directions.

    Most welcomed of all, only one opposing player will rally off the death of an opponent, down from five, and fully dead players will have to wait until combat around them has ended before they can expect to be rezzed. Those changes should significantly impact the ability of large, loose zergs to overpower smaller, more disciplined groups. Weight of numbers will still tell, but not in the overwhelming way it has until now.

    Or so it's hoped. As always there may be unforeseen and unintended consequences. At the very least, though, these appear to be changes made in response to genuine concerns expressed by players who play WvW, not whipped up on the back of an envelope and dropped in on a whim to the mystification of all.(...)"



    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593
    hell no...l dont trust anet in anyway
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,692
    I would buy it, but I am still not convinced it's worth $50.00 over the base game.
  • APThugAPThug Member UncommonPosts: 447
    Yes, considering not only are you paying for current content, but your also paying for future content until another expansion is released. 

    image
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,751
    I couldn't stand the combat/skills/progression.  I liked the idea of all the exploration/questing stuff since it was different but after a while of having 5 main skills and nearly being capped I was bored out of my skull.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,695
    edited February 2016
    Dont like the direction. I dont like the changes. Also the value you get for 50 bucks is not worth it. 



  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    edited February 2016
    I purchased it, but do not think it was worth doing so since I see it did more harm to the game than good and will probably be what makes me stop playing the game. The changes they made to wvw with HoT pretty much killed RvR in this game. Unless they make drastic changes to reverse what they did with HoT and take it in a different direction, I am not sure if I will continue playing.  If it were not for family, guildies and friends, I would have been long gone already.

    The DBL maps need to be trashed and the new mechanics need to be tossed. " not Tweaked" but kicked to the curb they are so bad. The new maps are too big, gimmicky, PVE focused, lacking strategic PVP play. They keep players apart , too many escape routes and ability to avoid fights and you spend  all your time  on them looking for the action rather than being in it. They would probably be great PVE maps.. They should go there where they belong and create new PVP maps where the primary focus of them is to keep players involved in PVP action rather than never finding it. PVE Gimmicks have no place in a PvP environment. The DBL maps are pretty deserted, and many people have rage quit over them or are still actively boycotting them refusing to play them at all: 

    http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

    Instead of going in the direction to make WvW a self sustaining large scale fun and  challenging strategicPvP environment, they tried to force more PVE content, grind, and making it even more Pay to win to compete with the guild upgrade costs, completely eliminated the need to defend anything, roam, or use strategy. Before taking objectives had strategic purposes since you could hit  necessary targets from other targets, you had a reason to defend them. All of that was obsoleted with HoT.

    In addition some of the other things they brought in are just lame.. the centaur, turtle and dragon banners add to the Pay to win gimmicks  and grind as well as the guild upgrade defense abilities due  to what it costs to do so cannot be reasonable obtained in WvW, and tries to force people out of WvW to be able to provide the things required to play it. It honestly feels like they do not want people to play the game mode at all and would rather have them out grinding PvE in order to play it. If people are in PVE grinding, they obviously are not playing WvW. Those grinding in PVE cannot possible compete with the credit card players due to the amount of time it takes to earn what is needed to play vs the ease of just paying for it by buying gold and paying other players to do it for them for the items that have to be earned in game. and are not available on the TP, making the  game mode even more pay to win than it was before since it places  even less value on individual players skill and more on being able to purchase turtle banners,  guild upgrades for aerial attacks and such  in addition to the already pay to win aspects of making superior and guild siege so expensive in game. It pushed it over the edge to being extremely pay to win rather than bringing it more in line with  the "not pay to win" small  scale arena pvp. If they treated WvW  like a large scale PvP mode, similar to how they view the small arena PvP, they would  be heading in the right direction to improve the mode. The more they move away from this, the less players continue to play an the game mode dies even further.

    The only thing I see beneficial from the HoT was the class/ build improvements. Although, those improvements are not enough to make up for the damage done by the rest  of the update to make it even playable. AT this time, most do not consider the game mode even playable anymore due to it.  Those claiming players do not like change are off base, players LOVE change, when the changes are good, but not all changes are good. These changes are just bad.  The reason the  DBLS were evacuated even during the beta testing are because, yes the maps ARE that bad.  There is a huge difference between good change and bad.. and the numbers leaving wvw and refusing to play on  the DBLs speak for themselves.
    WvW is been showing more activity in the last few weeks.

    People resist change. The Desert Broderlands are quite nice maps. Some of the mechanics had to be tweaked and they were in the latest patch.
    [snip]



    It isn't that people " resist change" that is a load of hogwash.  People refuse  to accept " BAD CHANGE" . Players LOVE good change however, Anet finally caved in and brought back PPK as players have demanded for years. Anet announcing return of PPK is why it has a temporary bump, but everyone coming back to play PPK  ARE ALSO PISSED about the other  bad changes and saying  PPK is not enough to keep them playing.  If Anet doesn't pay attention to what is being said they are not going to like what happens next. They only brought back PPK because of how badly HoT did. The numbers speak for themselves.

    I seriously hope they are not stupid enough to believe that people are warming up to the DBL.. they are not, and are counting on ANet to fix it.  The overwhelming sentiment in WvW is " Anet is not stupid enough to leave it like this" . They are demanding Anet fix it every day on their forums still. People are hoping Anet is going to fix it, if they don't they will not stay long. This is Anets only chance to get it right because if they do not , most players will not give them another chance to do it later once they get playing other games instead.  Most guilds have been taking a good look at Black Desert  if Anet doesn't nerf the DBL.

    The " mechanics" that are a problem are the maps terrain, size, PVE elements, building placement, and environmental factors. Remove all that and do it over and they will finally " fix the maps". Players coming back for PPK have nothing to do with the bad map mechanics.

     That was why I made this post:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/443530/return-of-ppk-death-of-the-rallybot#latest

     The players are just hopeful that since they finally listened about rally bots and PPK, they will finally listen about the rest of what is wrong. They are hoping HoT doing so badly makes them wake up  and finally do something right for a change. If Anet  doesn't wake up and realize that, the  WvW guilds will leave for good.

    The stupidest thing I have heard is " players don't like change" The truth is when it is good change,  they know immediately.  When they do something right people lOVE it immediately.  Players welcome and celebrate good change as soon as they see it. The problem they had here was it wasn't good.

    When you do a good update, you know it by the immediate player response. If you do not, it wasn't good. not hard to tell the difference. Anyone trying to tell themselves" people don't like change" are just fooling themselves.  If the players are not celebrating and thanking you, the reality is  you messed up.

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/20/analysts-consider-ncsofts-2016-prospects-guild-wars-2-wildstar-earnings-fall/
     Yes that is what happens when you mess up.
    Post edited by deviliscious on
  • Flo13Flo13 Member UncommonPosts: 9
    No, never again from NCrap.

    777

  • GrizzkhitGrizzkhit Member UncommonPosts: 16
    I purchased the expansion but I was dissapointed in the new content. The new leveling experience was ok for me, but I found myself doing stuff in the old content instead as there seemed to be very few who were doing the new stuff making it hard to get anything done there.
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    edited February 2016



    It isn't that people " resist change" that is a load of hogwash.  People refuse  to accept " BAD CHANGE" . Players LOVE good change however, Anet finally caved in and brought back PPK as players have demanded for years. Anet announcing return of PPK is why it has a temporary bump, but everyone coming back to play PPK  ARE ALSO PISSED about the other  bad changes and saying  PPK is not enough to keep them playing.  If Anet doesn't pay attention to what is being said they are not going to like what happens next. They only brought back PPK because of how badly HoT did. The numbers speak for themselves.

    I seriously hope they are not stupid enough to believe that people are warming up to the DBL.. they are not, and are counting on ANet to fix it.  The overwhelming sentiment in WvW is " Anet is not stupid enough to leave it like this" . They are demanding Anet fix it every day on their forums still. People are hoping Anet is going to fix it, if they don't they will not stay long. This is Anets only chance to get it right because if they do not , most players will not give them another chance to do it later once they get playing other games instead.  Most guilds have been taking a good look at Black Desert  if Anet doesn't nerf the DBL.

    The " mechanics" that are a problem are the maps terrain, size, PVE elements, building placement, and environmental factors. Remove all that and do it over and they will finally " fix the maps". Players coming back for PPK have nothing to do with the bad map mechanics.

     That was why I made this post:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/443530/return-of-ppk-death-of-the-rallybot#latest

     The players are just hopeful that since they finally listened about rally bots and PPK, they will finally listen about the rest of what is wrong. They are hoping HoT doing so badly makes them wake up  and finally do something right for a change. If Anet  doesn't wake up and realize that, the  WvW guilds will leave for good.

    The stupidest thing I have heard is " players don't like change" The truth is when it is good change,  they know immediately.  When they do something right people lOVE it immediately.  Players welcome and celebrate good change as soon as they see it. The problem they had here was it wasn't good.

    When you do a good update, you know it by the immediate player response. If you do not, it wasn't good. not hard to tell the difference. Anyone trying to tell themselves" people don't like change" are just fooling themselves.  If the players are not celebrating and thanking you, the reality is  you messed up.

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/20/analysts-consider-ncsofts-2016-prospects-guild-wars-2-wildstar-earnings-fall/
     Yes that is what happens when you mess up.
    The activity rise was before the patch.

    Lets wait for official numbers. KDB Daewoo Securities track record isn't exactly amazing - they have been predicting the release of a GW2 expansion for years and in march 2015 expected HoT release somewhere in 3Q15 and it happened in October (4Q15). Still they predict $40M for 4Q15, so 1/3 of the base game sale at release, but not all of the Xmas sales will be included and a prediction of $80M for the year 2016.

    Not that WvW would have a tremendous impact on HoT sales - WvW population is way smaller than PvE population (and many that do WvW are primarily PvE players anyway).

    WvW guilds have been leaving GW2 for good since release. Someone always fill the void.

    Some changes are disliked even if they are good because they cause loss of familiarity - all the knowledge on how to move from point A to B or where to build that cata to hit the wall without being wiped by that treb, gone. Poeple will feel noob and helpless again. Not something people like.

    Also, lets not forget WvW players used to complain about the structure upgrade price or that they complained about the ease of the blob be everywhere and defend everywhere, things that were basically solved by the WvW incarnation released with HoT.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    edited February 2016

    Flo13 said:
    No, never again from NCrap.
    If it makes you feel better GW2:HoT is published by Arenanet themselves, so no NCSoft logo (at least in the front cover).
    Post edited by Gaia_Hunter on

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359



    It isn't that people " resist change" that is a load of hogwash.  People refuse  to accept " BAD CHANGE" . Players LOVE good change however, Anet finally caved in and brought back PPK as players have demanded for years. Anet announcing return of PPK is why it has a temporary bump, but everyone coming back to play PPK  ARE ALSO PISSED about the other  bad changes and saying  PPK is not enough to keep them playing.  If Anet doesn't pay attention to what is being said they are not going to like what happens next. They only brought back PPK because of how badly HoT did. The numbers speak for themselves.

    I seriously hope they are not stupid enough to believe that people are warming up to the DBL.. they are not, and are counting on ANet to fix it.  The overwhelming sentiment in WvW is " Anet is not stupid enough to leave it like this" . They are demanding Anet fix it every day on their forums still. People are hoping Anet is going to fix it, if they don't they will not stay long. This is Anets only chance to get it right because if they do not , most players will not give them another chance to do it later once they get playing other games instead.  Most guilds have been taking a good look at Black Desert  if Anet doesn't nerf the DBL.

    The " mechanics" that are a problem are the maps terrain, size, PVE elements, building placement, and environmental factors. Remove all that and do it over and they will finally " fix the maps". Players coming back for PPK have nothing to do with the bad map mechanics.

     That was why I made this post:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/443530/return-of-ppk-death-of-the-rallybot#latest

     The players are just hopeful that since they finally listened about rally bots and PPK, they will finally listen about the rest of what is wrong. They are hoping HoT doing so badly makes them wake up  and finally do something right for a change. If Anet  doesn't wake up and realize that, the  WvW guilds will leave for good.

    The stupidest thing I have heard is " players don't like change" The truth is when it is good change,  they know immediately.  When they do something right people lOVE it immediately.  Players welcome and celebrate good change as soon as they see it. The problem they had here was it wasn't good.

    When you do a good update, you know it by the immediate player response. If you do not, it wasn't good. not hard to tell the difference. Anyone trying to tell themselves" people don't like change" are just fooling themselves.  If the players are not celebrating and thanking you, the reality is  you messed up.

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/20/analysts-consider-ncsofts-2016-prospects-guild-wars-2-wildstar-earnings-fall/
     Yes that is what happens when you mess up.
    The activity rise was before the patch.

    Lets wait for official numbers. KDB Daewoo Securities track record isn't exactly amazing - they have been predicting the release of a GW2 expansion for years and in march 2015 expected HoT release somewhere in 3Q15 and it happened in October (4Q15). Still they predict $40M for 4Q15, so 1/3 of the base game sale at release, but not all of the Xmas sales will be included and a prediction of $80M for the year 2016.

    Not that WvW would have a tremendous impact on HoT sales - WvW population is way smaller than PvE population (and many that do WvW are primarily PvE players anyway).

    WvW guilds have been leaving GW2 for good since release. Someone always fill the void.

    Some changes are disliked even if they are good because they cause loss of familiarity - all the knowledge on how to move from point A to B or where to build that cata to hit the wall without being wiped by that treb, gone. Poeple will feel noob and helpless again. Not something people like.

    Also, lets not forget WvW players used to complain about the structure upgrade price or that they complained about the ease of the blob be everywhere and defend everywhere, things that were basically solved by the WvW incarnation released with HoT.
    The increase happened after they announced the return of PPK and people started finding out about it. If you have been on voice coms or community WvW sites ( where this is being openly discussed) you would know this is what is happening. The sad thing is ANet employees have been invited and have access to all of these tools in the community to find out what is going on, and they tend to ignore them for the most part. Hopefully they ahve been paying attention to the interviews my guildies   and friends have been giving on Twitch on this subject and pull their head out. 

    Some changes are disliked in moderation, however, this response was far from " moderation". The DBLs were evacuated during beta testing and people told them they did not like them even then and they ignorantly released them anyhow knowing the feedback had been terrible for them. That is not a good move no matter how you try to spin it.  The numbers from every source available on the DBLs has been terrible and in every tier, the numbers are in. Players would rather sit in queue for EBG  and wait in Lion's arch than play on them, and that is bad, not good for a game.

    The WvW population are the ones who spend the most $$ on the game, even  though they are smaller than the PvE population, they spend more than all other populations combined.  This is because the PVE population farms their gold in PVE and does not have need to transfer or buy more gold to play PvE. The PVP population does not need $$ to play and the WvW population spends tons of real $$ buying gold to pay for  guild server transfers and bonuses, siege, food, utilities, scouts to watch keeps, best weapons, armors and runes which are not needed for PvP, but are for WvW due to WvW not being a self sustaining game mode. Failing to address the WvW population will mean they lose all of those sales as these " credit card" players take their business elsewhere, losing their primary funding for the game.

    The minor issues solved with the HoT were insignificant to the MAJOR increases in costs to guild upgrades to be able to do the basic things guilds were able to do prior to HoT. More was taken from guilds than what was given. The changes to guild upgrades and the forcing of guilds to pay PvE players to do what is required to have WvW upgrades now was much worse than the minor upgrade costs from before. Showing how they removed the small scratch on the door they just sent through a  wood chipper doesn't exactly make them look good. The reason no one is talking about them solving the upgrade cost, is because they made it so much worse with the guild upgrade changes and auto upgrade nonsense. They could have done the easy thing, and just removed the cost instead...
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    As I said, I have heard complains and most had nothing to do with the layout of the borderlands, other than the middle event.

    I have heard people (as in hardcore WvWers using the Desolation TS) complaining about upgrades being automatic, on how their guilds lost upgrades due to the new Guild Hall system but those things are not the Desert Borderlands Map.

    The facts are that Desert Borderlands are bigger and seem even bigger since they are harder to transverse, especially when people don't know that paths and when the non core WvW players, which are the majority of WvW players are busy doing HoT content. Even hardcore WvW guilds were busy with PvE content to upgrade their guild halls.

    If the $$$ numbers coming from WvW players are so large they wouldn't have removed the WvW costs. 

    It was a perfect storm and the poor Desert Borderlands are being blamed for more than their fair share.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,899
    edited February 2016
    Bought it a few weeks ago, worth every penny to me.I buy every WoW expansion so buying every GW2 expansion is a no brainer too. Still havent beaten Mordremoth, currently stuck fighting the Blighted Canach.

    I dont grind, i dont zerg, i dont rush, i dont play like a zombie, i only play to have fun. That applies to every mmorpg.

    One thing tho, i still have 4-5 low level characters (out of my 12 tooons) that i want to take to HoT content but i dont want to level them in the old maps without tomes of knowledge because it will take too long. Ill have to start doing sPvP and save a few hundred tomes, but that will take months, because like i said, i dont grind and i dont like pvp.




  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    edited February 2016
    As I said, I have heard complains and most had nothing to do with the layout of the borderlands, other than the middle event.

    I have heard people (as in hardcore WvWers using the Desolation TS) complaining about upgrades being automatic, on how their guilds lost upgrades due to the new Guild Hall system but those things are not the Desert Borderlands Map.

    The facts are that Desert Borderlands are bigger and seem even bigger since they are harder to transverse, especially when people don't know that paths and when the non core WvW players, which are the majority of WvW players are busy doing HoT content. Even hardcore WvW guilds were busy with PvE content to upgrade their guild halls.

    If the $$$ numbers coming from WvW players are so large they wouldn't have removed the WvW costs. 

    It was a perfect storm and the poor Desert Borderlands are being blamed for more than their fair share.
    Do you play WvW? IF you have not heard the complaint on the layout and  lack of strategy involved in the positioning of the buildings, you have not been paying attention to the community, as this has been a topic  being discussed since release.

    In the Alpine maps, you had a reason to defend towers, keeps and such due to the strategic positions gained by taking/ losing them. When you took NET or NWT , for example, you could treb the garrison from either side forcing players to have to attack a fortified position rather than forcing the fight into open field. It would force the defensive team  to play offense to counter it. This made  the towers more valuable. When you lost a keep you lost the WP, it was not automatically given back  to you. You had a reason to defend it, all of that was removed for HoT. There is no reason to defend anything anymore since you can get it back whenever so it doesn't matter if you lose it or not.

     The terrain makes it a horrific battlefield for WvW fights since there are so many escape routes,  players can avoid fights rather than be forced into them, so the actual terrain itself is bad for PvP since it encourages avoiding fights rather than forces players into them. It also being  larger means you spend more time running around wasting time when you are there than actually  in the  PvP action.  If you only have so long to play, you sure as hell do not want to spend it running around never finding a fight. The primary objective of a PvP  game mode  such as WvW map design is to keep players in PvP action the majority of the time they are there. This map does the opposite for that, and was not even designed with that in mind is the issue.  Making it take longer to get to objectives = spend all your time running around being useless on a map instead of having fun, challenging PvP.

    EVEN many hardcore WvW guilds said screw it and paid people to upgrade their guild halls for them and  paid Bot farmers to get the resources for them because they would either play WvW instead or played another game where they could PvP while they paid  other people to do it for them. Most hardcore WvW players do not step foot in PvE.

    I think you are misunderstanding. They have not removed the primary WvW costs they have increased them, as the upgrades were  only  one of the smallest expenses that MOST WvW players could care less about.. The biggest $$ makers are guild  server transfers, buying multiple accounts w/ expansion to play on multiple servers at once, siege costs, guild upgrades, weapons, armor, runes, food, and utilities and paying for scouts. The " upgrades to buildings" were an noticeable cost by the major WvW players in comparison.

    Trying to compare the costs spent on building upgrades to the majority of expenses incurred by WvW players is like trying to compare the cost of a an apple to the cost of a  house.

    The only thing " poor" about the DBLs is their design. They were never designed to be PvP maps, they should be sent back to  PvE where they belong. They need to go back to the drawing board and design actual PvP maps where the primary objective is having players spend more time in PvP activities on the map than anything else.



  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065

    Do you play WvW? IF you have not heard the complaint on the layout and  lack of strategy involved in the positioning of the buildings, you have not been paying attention to the community, as this has been a topic  being discussed since release.

    In the Alpine maps, you had a reason to defend towers, keeps and such due to the strategic positions gained by taking/ losing them. When you took NET or NWT , for example, you could treb the garrison from either side forcing players to have to attack a fortified position rather than forcing the fight into open field. It would force the defensive team  to play offense to counter it. This made  the towers more valuable. When you lost a keep you lost the WP, it was not automatically given back  to you. You had a reason to defend it, all of that was removed for HoT. There is no reason to defend anything anymore since you can get it back whenever so it doesn't matter if you lose it or not.

     The terrain makes it a horrific battlefield for WvW fights since there are so many escape routes,  players can avoid fights rather than be forced into them, so the actual terrain itself is bad for PvP since it encourages avoiding fights rather than forces players into them. It also being  larger means you spend more time running around wasting time when you are there than actually  in the  PvP action.  If you only have so long to play, you sure as hell do not want to spend it running around never finding a fight. The primary objective of a PvP  game mode  such as WvW map design is to keep players in PvP action the majority of the time they are there. This map does the opposite for that, and was not even designed with that in mind is the issue.  Making it take longer to get to objectives = spend all your time running around being useless on a map instead of having fun, challenging PvP.

    EVEN many hardcore WvW guilds said screw it and paid people to upgrade their guild halls for them and  paid Bot farmers to get the resources for them because they would either play WvW instead or played another game where they could PvP while they paid  other people to do it for them. Most hardcore WvW players do not step foot in PvE.

    I think you are misunderstanding. They have not removed the primary WvW costs they have increased them, as the upgrades were  only  one of the smallest expenses that MOST WvW players could care less about.. The biggest $$ makers are guild  server transfers, buying multiple accounts w/ expansion to play on multiple servers at once, siege costs, guild upgrades, weapons, armor, runes, food, and utilities and paying for scouts. The " upgrades to buildings" were an noticeable cost by the major WvW players in comparison.

    Trying to compare the costs spent on building upgrades to the majority of expenses incurred by WvW players is like trying to compare the cost of a an apple to the cost of a  house.

    The only thing " poor" about the DBLs is their design. They were never designed to be PvP maps, they should be sent back to  PvE where they belong. They need to go back to the drawing board and design actual PvP maps where the primary objective is having players spend more time in PvP activities on the map than anything else.



    I have no respect for merc guilds, jumping around worlds or spy accounts.
    As I said, during the time I logged in WvW today for the daily, I participated in 3 major battles. There is people everywhere.

    So we will see if the problem was the desert borderlands or the frigging fact that there was an expansion after months of drought content.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    edited February 2016

    Do you play WvW? IF you have not heard the complaint on the layout and  lack of strategy involved in the positioning of the buildings, you have not been paying attention to the community, as this has been a topic  being discussed since release.

    In the Alpine maps, you had a reason to defend towers, keeps and such due to the strategic positions gained by taking/ losing them. When you took NET or NWT , for example, you could treb the garrison from either side forcing players to have to attack a fortified position rather than forcing the fight into open field. It would force the defensive team  to play offense to counter it. This made  the towers more valuable. When you lost a keep you lost the WP, it was not automatically given back  to you. You had a reason to defend it, all of that was removed for HoT. There is no reason to defend anything anymore since you can get it back whenever so it doesn't matter if you lose it or not.

     The terrain makes it a horrific battlefield for WvW fights since there are so many escape routes,  players can avoid fights rather than be forced into them, so the actual terrain itself is bad for PvP since it encourages avoiding fights rather than forces players into them. It also being  larger means you spend more time running around wasting time when you are there than actually  in the  PvP action.  If you only have so long to play, you sure as hell do not want to spend it running around never finding a fight. The primary objective of a PvP  game mode  such as WvW map design is to keep players in PvP action the majority of the time they are there. This map does the opposite for that, and was not even designed with that in mind is the issue.  Making it take longer to get to objectives = spend all your time running around being useless on a map instead of having fun, challenging PvP.

    EVEN many hardcore WvW guilds said screw it and paid people to upgrade their guild halls for them and  paid Bot farmers to get the resources for them because they would either play WvW instead or played another game where they could PvP while they paid  other people to do it for them. Most hardcore WvW players do not step foot in PvE.

    I think you are misunderstanding. They have not removed the primary WvW costs they have increased them, as the upgrades were  only  one of the smallest expenses that MOST WvW players could care less about.. The biggest $$ makers are guild  server transfers, buying multiple accounts w/ expansion to play on multiple servers at once, siege costs, guild upgrades, weapons, armor, runes, food, and utilities and paying for scouts. The " upgrades to buildings" were an noticeable cost by the major WvW players in comparison.

    Trying to compare the costs spent on building upgrades to the majority of expenses incurred by WvW players is like trying to compare the cost of a an apple to the cost of a  house.

    The only thing " poor" about the DBLs is their design. They were never designed to be PvP maps, they should be sent back to  PvE where they belong. They need to go back to the drawing board and design actual PvP maps where the primary objective is having players spend more time in PvP activities on the map than anything else.



    I have no respect for merc guilds, jumping around worlds or spy accounts.
    As I said, during the time I logged in WvW today for the daily, I participated in 3 major battles. There is people everywhere.

    So we will see if the problem was the desert borderlands or the frigging fact that there was an expansion after months of drought content.

    LMAO.. You do realize WvW players now have accounts on all servers due to the $10 accounts way back when  and play on them at will? They are not all spies, they just like playing against different guilds to fight. Most WvW players that are left in game now do not care about winning/ scores and have no reason to spy.

    I am not sure what you are expecting to " see"  as there are multiple problems, just the DBL's are  one of the big ones. It was like they sat down and designed some bouncy PVE environmental focused Mess of a  map and not a PvP map at all... They didn't even think about strategic positioning...

     " there is people everywhere,.." "WHERE" exactly?"  what was the server name and  the area the people were located?.. we have exact numbers on this if we need to look them up, they are tracking this now.

    Just fixing the DBL will not solve all the problems of course, it will just  start  having players play on the other maps again instead of sitting in  a massive queue for EBG. They will need to solve other issues after they do that as well. That would just be correcting something they got very very wrong..


  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065

    LMAO.. You do realize WvW players now have accounts on all servers due to the $10 accounts way back when  and play on them at will? They are not all spies, they just like playing against different guilds to fight. Most WvW players that are left in game now do not care about winning/ scores and have no reason to spy.

    I am not sure what you are expecting to " see"  as there are multiple problems, just the DBL's are  one of the big ones. It was like they sat down and designed some bouncy PVE environmental focused Mess of a  map and not a PvP map at all... They didn't even think about strategic positioning...

     " there is people everywhere,.." "WHERE" exactly?"  what was the server name and  the area the people were located?.. we have exact numbers on this if we need to look them up, they are tracking this now.

    Just fixing the DBL will not solve all the problems of course, it will just  start  having players play on the other maps again instead of sitting in  a massive queue for EBG. They will need to solve other issues after they do that as well. That would just be correcting something they got very very wrong..


    If players have accounts on all servers, they have no need to spend money on server transfers.
    If they do not care about winning, why spend money on expensive consumables?

    As I said I play on Desolation. On both Kodash and FSP borderlands people were fighting for the camps and the keeps.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    edited February 2016

    LMAO.. You do realize WvW players now have accounts on all servers due to the $10 accounts way back when  and play on them at will? They are not all spies, they just like playing against different guilds to fight. Most WvW players that are left in game now do not care about winning/ scores and have no reason to spy.

    I am not sure what you are expecting to " see"  as there are multiple problems, just the DBL's are  one of the big ones. It was like they sat down and designed some bouncy PVE environmental focused Mess of a  map and not a PvP map at all... They didn't even think about strategic positioning...

     " there is people everywhere,.." "WHERE" exactly?"  what was the server name and  the area the people were located?.. we have exact numbers on this if we need to look them up, they are tracking this now.

    Just fixing the DBL will not solve all the problems of course, it will just  start  having players play on the other maps again instead of sitting in  a massive queue for EBG. They will need to solve other issues after they do that as well. That would just be correcting something they got very very wrong..


    If players have accounts on all servers, they have no need to spend money on server transfers.
    If they do not care about winning, why spend money on expensive consumables?

    As I said I play on Desolation. On both Kodash and FSP borderlands people were fighting for the camps and the keeps.
    Though you would think they wouldn't have need to move accounts, they do still move them around to get  the accounts where they want them to be. They move their main accounts where their primary guild moves, and shift their secondary accounts around as needed. Even when they do not shift their accounts, when they are paid to move servers, they still take the $$ to do so and use it for WvW expenses.  It is not uncommon for guilds on the welcoming server to offer gold + legendaries  as an incentives to call their server home.

    They care about winning fights, and provoking fights, not about winning the matchup. They use expensive consumables  to win the fights and they still need siege to break into a keep to create a bag farm, not that they actually need to cap it. In addition, they may often cap  enemy keeps as well ,if  the enemy team  is trash talking just to piss them off . Spite is a  strong motivator. 

    ALSO, you do not really consider doing dailies and guild events " playing WvW". People who come in to do those things  do not really care about playing the game mode, they are just there to get the task done and leave, not to win..
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065


    They care about winning fights, and provoking fights, not about winning the matchup. They use expensive consumables  to win the fights and they still need siege to break into a keep to create a bag farm, not that they actually need to cap it. In addition, they may often cap  enemy keeps as well ,if  the enemy team  is trash talking just to piss them off . Spite is a  strong motivator. 

    ALSO, you do not really consider doing dailies and guild events " playing WvW". People who come in to do those things  do not really care about playing the game mode, they are just there to get the task done and leave, not to win..
    I don't see how the group you describe in the first paragraph I quote plays the game mode and the group in the second doesn't.

    In fact from reports of closed beta of Desert Borderlands, fights did happen because the guilds participating were interested in fighting. I guess that there aren't enough guilds interested in that kind of play then.

    One could argue that is the PPT guilds that are playing the game mode correctly

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    edited February 2016


    They care about winning fights, and provoking fights, not about winning the matchup. They use expensive consumables  to win the fights and they still need siege to break into a keep to create a bag farm, not that they actually need to cap it. In addition, they may often cap  enemy keeps as well ,if  the enemy team  is trash talking just to piss them off . Spite is a  strong motivator. 

    ALSO, you do not really consider doing dailies and guild events " playing WvW". People who come in to do those things  do not really care about playing the game mode, they are just there to get the task done and leave, not to win..
    I don't see how the group you describe in the first paragraph I quote plays the game mode and the group in the second doesn't.

    In fact from reports of closed beta of Desert Borderlands, fights did happen because the guilds participating were interested in fighting. I guess that there aren't enough guilds interested in that kind of play then.

    One could argue that is the PPT guilds that are playing the game mode correctly
    Fight guilds are not playing the game mode as it was designed to be played, that is why they have asked repeatedly to have an actual GvG area added outside of WvW that supports large scale PvP ( which sadly even the guild hall arena options are too limited in that regards as of now) . 

    PPT guilds would be the ones playing it more like it was designed, if they also participate in fights as well, and not just avoid them. If they do both fighting and PPT, they would be playing the game mode correctly, however, the sad truth is most of those guys left long ago, so even in the higher tiers, you still have just  a few people pulling the weight for the entire server. You have your " mules" that do all  PPT work to keep the serer in the high tier, and the rest that are just there for the fights.

    There are just not many left in the game that want to play the game mode as it is intended to be played. Now this is also why I say they should just go ahead and make a GvG arena with ladders/ brackets and such as has been requested repeatedly,  remove the number of servers allowing for  for the remaining servers to have population 24/7 and then they can use timed overflow maps such as more EBG's  in the actual match up ( score counts) during busy hours to handle the queue. That would solve the problem of servers lacking population 24 hours a day, servers having players stuck in queue the entire time they have to play and would put more players actually there to play the game mode on the field in play since those that wish to GvG only will be able to do so elsewhere.
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 956
    I didn't think it was worth $49 so I didn't buy it.

    The feedback that I've gotten from people who did wasn't good.

    I don't play anymore.
  • Nayr752Nayr752 Member UncommonPosts: 172
    Currently playing Guild Wars 2 without Heart of Thorns expansion. I might buy it since there aren't any good MMORPG's out right now. Not sure if I wanna fork out one hundred dollars on the expansion.
  • FirstKnight117FirstKnight117 Member UncommonPosts: 106
    @Darksworm Wow, thanks for posting! How do you REALLY feel??

    On topic: I would buy it just for the story (that's just me) but not for $50. Price still hasn't come down, so there's PLENTY else out there to play...
Sign In or Register to comment.