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Black Desert - On Gender Locking the Classes

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Comments

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    When a game struggles with this kind of diversity it means that the creators are just above the threshold in skill, and have a tiger by the tail. If they struggle to give basic choices and diversity of experience the rest of the game will probably reflect this 'Animations are Gold," attitude. 

    If I'm playing a game about cars and they all have the same size wheels I know it's going to be a pretty bland experience. Same size tires means no opening doors, no different sound for glass packs, and bumper stickers on the Cash Store. 

    I wish that these games had more capable engines able to represent a larger number of possibilities in the game space. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 723
    edited January 2016
    Sovrath said:
    I know I could care less.. 





    Aori said:




    Personally I could care less,


    *hero music is sounded in the distance*

    Your word crimes end here friendos

    Watch this educational video

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    I like the fact that some MMOs stay true to their lore.

    Also BDO has been working on male/female counterparts for each class.  They have been discussing a male Ranger variant and we already have variants for the Warrior and Ninja classes.
    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Gender locking is just another word for a very lazy coding staff.  They cannot be bothered with coding the gender counterpart.  Another reason to avoid eastern games.  
  • odinthor021odinthor021 Member UncommonPosts: 40
    Kinda like I'm a male I can shoot arrows, I'm a female I can only throw darts, lol .Choose the toon that fits your playstyle, it usually only sucks when you can't be a female panda that throws darts.
  • RoseSymphonyRoseSymphony Member UncommonPosts: 5
    When it's a legitimate reason behind the gender lock like something about the race and the lore, it's perfectly fine to gender lock because that's how it is in the game's world. When it's developers being lazy or pandering to their loli complexed/boob obsessed male audience, that's when it bothers me. I want to play a character that is me because I want to immerse myself in the game. I guess as a female I have the advantage of the gender locked classes usually being female but I have no interest in being a little cutesy thing with rabbit ears and a tail. I'm looking at you, Tera.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    Ozmodan said:
    Gender locking is just another word for a very lazy coding staff.  They cannot be bothered with coding the gender counterpart.  Another reason to avoid eastern games.  
    Yet the are coding counterparts with different skill sets....
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • darkheart84darkheart84 Member UncommonPosts: 84
    edited January 2016
    DMKano said:
    I've never played a male character in a MMO.

    If I am going to be staring at my characters behind for countless hours might as well enjoy it.







    Why are people so comfortable saying this? As though it's a respectable excuse that makes sense, and not a most pathetic thing to do? I don't find myself staring at my character's butt when I play a game. I didn't start a game to stare at my character's butt while I play for hours.

    Isn't the intended point to insert yourself into a fantasy world?
  • KiyonoriKiyonori Member UncommonPosts: 70
    DMKano said:
    I've never played a male character in a MMO.

    If I am going to be staring at my characters behind for countless hours might as well enjoy it.







    Why are people so comfortable saying this? As though it's a respectable excuse that makes sense, and not a most pathetic thing to do? I don't find myself staring at my character's butt when I play a game. I didn't start a game to stare at my character's butt while I play for hours.

    Isn't the intended point to insert yourself into a fantasy world?
    I don't think anyone says that un-sarcastically anymore. Or if they do just cringe and move on. Used to be when I saw someone say that I would roll my eyes, but now? It's always someone trying to be funny. It's a worn out meme like "le arrow to le knee XD".


    Genderlocked classes are a huge deal breaker for me if I can't find my particular niche. I've never played a female in any game I've ever played and I'm not about to start just because that's the only way to be a pet class or whatever. Especially in any asian developed game, their chicks are usually always over-sexualized (I'm no left wing sjw, but they take it to another level) or have the dumbest looking armor that makes them look like even more of a joke.


    Usually, when there are genderlocked classes, the characters themselves already have a pre-built personality, sometimes even a name already chosen (not random) and I just feel like more of a clone than an individual character. I know ultimately that I'm not that much different from others in the same class regardless of customization but it's just a small detail that bugs me. If I'm going to be a pre-made character I'd rather just play a single player game.
  • BelgaramBelgaram Member UncommonPosts: 2
    I agree to a point. The major difference in the Lara Croft games et al is that they are all mostly linear. There is a story. There's a beginning a middle and an end. You know as you play the game that it will end and you move on to the next linear game. I think It's different with MMO's. There is no true ending. You evolve with your character. In some aspects you are associated as your character. In guilds, no matter how close you get to know these people, even to the point of meeting guildies IRL, you are known as your character. For some people it's irrelevant. To others, their immersion encompasses who they are both in game and out. So for some it's much easier to play a linear game like Lara Croft and not care vs. their characters in MMO's who they spend much more time developing and playing.

    “Perseverance is a great element of success.
    If you only knock long enough and loud enough
    at the gate, you are sure to wake somebody
    up.”
    –Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  • TadewingTadewing Member UncommonPosts: 1
    As a male, I pick based on aesthetics: a character's animation style (and gear) must look graceful. Sex matters very little — unless the opponent is SO-BAD-that-you-rather-do-something-else than fighting for your survival.
  • MyownGodMyownGod Member UncommonPosts: 205
    This nonsense again, gender lock game is a massive turn off for me and my partner. We both like to play as our own gender, as we both are very comfortable with our own genders, I always play as slender built male, and my partner play as petite built female, if we play the opposite gender we feel very uncomfortable. Perhaps people who enjoys to play the opposite of their own gender have something that they have not yet tapped in their subconscious level? I don't know, saying that they like to see their character behind does not sound reasonable at all.
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392
    NO WAY IN H E- - I will play a female character. I had wanted to play an Archer. Now I will continue to look for a game with freedom and far far better immersion.
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392
    There is a cost to gender locking.It is called NOT PLAYING THE GAME and the lost revenue streams from those players.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Goddammit! I want to play a male Amazonian

    I could never figure out what people's problems are with gender locked classes.

    lore = lore

    Does it have something to do with Political Correctness?


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,747
    edited February 2016
    laserit said:
    Goddammit! I want to play a male Amazonian

    I could never figure out what people's problems are with gender locked classes.

    lore = lore

    Does it have something to do with Political Correctness?



    Game play and accessibility should always trump lore, always.  There is no valid reason to gender lock archer.  Barbarian type characters have always come in both sexes.  Valkyrie makes sense, but why not offer a male version within the Nordic lore, like a Skald, Hersir, Ulfsark or Huskarl.  Click male and instantly change class name only.

    I can't stand the fact that the Wizard is age locked at 65.  Great for those who love wrinkles I suppose, but why not have younger options?  Makes no sense to me.

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    Goddammit! I want to play a male Amazonian

    I could never figure out what people's problems are with gender locked classes.

    lore = lore

    Does it have something to do with Political Correctness?



    Game play and accessibility should always trump lore, always.  There is no valid reason to gender lock archer.  Barbarian type characters have always come in both sexes.  Valkyrie makes sense, but why not offer a male version within the Nordic lore, like a Skald, Hersir, Ulfsark or Huskarl.  Click male and instantly change class name only.

    I can't stand the fact that the Wizard is age locked at 65.  Great for those who love wrinkles I suppose, but why not have younger options?  Makes no sense to me.

    I fail to see how gender locking affects game play or accessibility. Unless the player has some kind of a phobia about playing the opposite sex in a video game.

    There are too many games to count, where the character or characters are gender locked. Movies and books too, come to think of it. Maybe we should have two versions of everything so we can make everybody happy.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,676
    laserit said:


    I fail to see how gender locking affects game play or accessibility. Unless the player has some kind of a phobia about playing the opposite sex in a video game.

    There are too many games to count, where the character or characters are gender locked. Movies and books too, come to think of it. Maybe we should have two versions of everything so we can make everybody happy.
    Look at it from a business perspective.   An MMO that makes more people happy is an MMO with more customers and thus more money, all for the relatively cheaper costs of simply having an alternate model for a character class (and possibly alternative voice, but voices are rarely segregated out by class).

    For a movie or book to achieve this, however, the entire movie would have to be filmed twice or more, and the entire book would have to be re-written in many areas.  That's a much bigger cost than what an MMO has to pay in order to get more "happy" people (more customers).

    But sometimes, even for an MMO, the developer might simply decide the extra costs of having alternative models isn't worth it.  I'm not sure why they'd come to that conclusion in this day and age of technology where having an alternative model in a 3D game is cheap as hell (unlike the 2D era where you had to make an entire set of sprites and animations for everything) but eh, it's not like I'm the one with access to the budget forecasts of the company.

    As always, the most simple way for a customer to express their dissatisfaction (not being made "happy") with a product is to vote with their wallet.
  • MalathoosMalathoos Member UncommonPosts: 199
    sigh the two classes i want to play the most tamer and sorc are both female. love every aspect of this game other than gender lock. it might make me pass on it for now


  • cprikcprik Member UncommonPosts: 38
    Pepeq said:


    Perhaps, just perhaps, gender locking is merely a means to make the classes unique... as intended.

    how does limiting classes to one gender make each individual character more unique? its the opposite rather

  • RynetRynet Member UncommonPosts: 114
    Perhaps Gender Locking is actually the company being lazy. They will not have to draw the male version or the female version of that classes ability depending on which gender is locked.
  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    DMKano said:
    I've never played a male character in a MMO.

    If I am going to be staring at my characters behind for countless hours might as well enjoy it.







    Why are people so comfortable saying this? As though it's a respectable excuse that makes sense, and not a most pathetic thing to do? I don't find myself staring at my character's butt when I play a game. I didn't start a game to stare at my character's butt while I play for hours.

    Isn't the intended point to insert yourself into a fantasy world?
    They say it out of jest... reality check my friend, people aren't staring at their characters' butt as much as they say they are... you're staring at cool down timers, UI crap, the environment, auction house goods, and whatever opponent you currently happen to be in combat with.

    Gender locking is rather moot because you cease to see your character once to are actually engaged in doing anything.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,676
    edited February 2016
    Pepeq said:
    DMKano said:
    I've never played a male character in a MMO.

    If I am going to be staring at my characters behind for countless hours might as well enjoy it.







    Why are people so comfortable saying this? As though it's a respectable excuse that makes sense, and not a most pathetic thing to do? I don't find myself staring at my character's butt when I play a game. I didn't start a game to stare at my character's butt while I play for hours.

    Isn't the intended point to insert yourself into a fantasy world?
    They say it out of jest... reality check my friend, people aren't staring at their characters' butt as much as they say they are... you're staring at cool down timers, UI crap, the environment, auction house goods, and whatever opponent you currently happen to be in combat with.

    Gender locking is rather moot because you cease to see your character once to are actually engaged in doing anything.
    It's not moot to a lot of the people in this thread.

    Also, I played tons of MMOs often times being in (or even leading) the top guilds on the server and in all of them, even in top guilds obsessed with efficiency and hard core gameplay, everyone always goes bat crazy over the latest costumes being released and lovingly paying attention to how their characters look, even if they won't be looking at those characters in actual combat.  Most people who don't give a crap about how their characters look (and thus the characters' genders) typically don't play MMORPGs in the first place (those that don't care about their character's looks are the exception, not the norm).  Character customization is one of the major draws of the MMORPG genre.

    Of course, in these top guilds, nearly everyone is a whale (good luck finding a game without any P2W these days...), of whom cash shop costumes and look customization caters to in the first place.  But hey, like I said, if the company doesn't want their money for whatever reason (be it too cheap to implement both gender models for each class, too uncreative to come up with a unique lore that doesnt rely on cliche genderlocking for the sake of being "unique", or whatever else reason), that's their prerogative.  I shall simply vote with my wallet, as will many others, I'm sure.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    edited February 2016
    Game play and accessibility should always trump lore, always. 
    Can't agree with that at all.

    The moment when arts stops being art and becomes a work of logic is the moment when art dies.

    The creator of the art create the art the way they see it, you choose whether to like it or not, whether to pay for it or not. I don't think it is good art for an artist to compromise their art just accommodate for differing opinions.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,747
    Game play and accessibility should always trump lore, always. 
    Can't agree with that at all.

    The moment when arts stops being art and becomes a work of logic is the moment when art dies.

    The creator of the art create the art the way they see it, you choose whether to like it or not, whether to pay for it or not. I don't think it is good art for an artist to compromise their art just accommodate for differing opinions.

    Comparing computer gaming to art is ludicrous.

    image
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