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Non casual MMO.

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Xodic said:


    This is making history in a virtual world. Nothing was handed to anyone, the community had to come together on their own will and dedication to see something happen.

    nah .. sounds more like work than fun .. to me.

    I am glad games are not like that anymore. 
  • mark2123mark2123 Member UncommonPosts: 450
    Xodic said:


    You're spot on. Lack of human interaction and the inability to build social skills is what spawned Facebook, which has further degraded the concept of proper social behavior, which is ironic because it's labeled as a social network. It's an epidemic.

    It's the other way around.  Facebook, Twitter, texting, What's App - those are the things that stop real human interaction because people find it simpler.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Xodic said:
    Xodic said:


    This is making history in a virtual world. Nothing was handed to anyone, the community had to come together on their own will and dedication to see something happen.

    nah .. sounds more like work than fun .. to me.

    I am glad games are not like that anymore. 
    Well it's clear that we have different ideas of what is fun and exciting. So if I'm ever trying a game and see a character named Nariusseldon run by, I'll know I should immediately uninstall.

    I'm going to need a list of all of your AKAs please.
    If you need to see me running by (which is probably unlikely anyway .. since i spent most of my time in instances) to decide if a game will fit you, you really don't know much about games.

    I, on the other hand, know exactly what games i like, and even if you run by, i will just treat you like a NPC, and won't affect a bit of my enjoyment. (Not that you are likely to be in games I like).
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Xodic said:
    nariusseldon said:

    and even if you run by, i will just treat you like a NPC
    That's just mean, man.


    why? It is not mean to just ignore strangers, is it? You are not going to have a cup of coffee if a stranger ask you to on the streets of NYC, are you?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,493
    edited January 2016
    Xodic said:
    nariusseldon said:

    and even if you run by, i will just treat you like a NPC
    That's just mean, man.


    why? It is not mean to just ignore strangers, is it? You are not going to have a cup of coffee if a stranger ask you to on the streets of NYC, are you?
    Actually I would have a cup of coffee with a stranger in New York City. In fact I'm one of those weirdos that speaks to strangers in public all of the time. You are probably one of those people that looks at me so strangely and scurries past without even a nod or hello.

    Where Did you ever get the idea that it's okay to be rude to someone or discourteous just because they're a stranger.

    To Quote my mother a stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    Kyleran said:
    Amathe said:
    There are a lots of sandbox MMOs where if you try to play casually, meaning less than 15 hours a week, you'll just never get anywhere.
    Oh you'll get somewhere. Behind. 
    Trying to figure out what titles fall into the category of "a lot of sandbox MMOs"

    Yeah, you know....it's that one that has all the sand............
    a..and the box?
    You know the one right?


  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Kyleran said:
    Actually I would have a cup of coffee with a stranger in New York City. In fact I'm one of those weirdos that speaks to strangers in public all of the time. You are probably one of those people that looks at me so strangely and scurries past without even a Nadar hello
    I'd have a cup of coffee with a stranger, including you, without any problems. I'd be disgusted to have a cup of anything with someone like Nariusseldon.

    We all agree, disagree, cheer, complain here, but some people are just here to make trouble, and those do not deserve any kindness.
    Not me....maybe a cup of tea or hot chocolate as I'm not much of a coffee drinker. ;)  
      I find that people like those you mention (not wanting to share a beverage with) are like those in RL that ignore you when you something courteous like opening a door for them, or allowing to pass in front of you. Weird looks they give, all of 'em. 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Benjola said:
    Xodic said:
    Benjola said:
    You know you are getting old when you see people putting WoW in a sentence with 'hard', 'hardcore' and 'non-casual'.
    None of those who say WoW is easy have ever cleared a Mythic raid, or even just killed a single Mythic boss.
    Or even tried 40 mans back in the day. Certainly wasn't for 'casuals', the prep being the most trying. 

    40 man raid? Sure, I bet that was an accomplishment. This, however, was EPIC. Something no game will ever achieve again by using the - everyone is a winner, just click this button approach .

    "The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    On November 15, 2003, on the Rallos Zek PvP server, the three top guilds (Ascending Dawn, Wudan, and Magus Imperialis Magicus) assembled over 180 players with the intent to wake and kill The Sleeper. This was in response to an attempt to wake The Sleeper by an Iksar monk named Stynkfyst, who partnered with the largest random-pk guild of the time. Having been a former member of uber-guild Ascending Dawn, he had the knowledge the random pk guild needed to wake The Sleeper. The top guilds did not assemble their forces until word of Stynkfyst's intentions had spread, and it became clear that he intended to wake The Sleeper, forever preventing future guilds from farming the old loot table. Until this point, waking The Sleeper had not been seriously considered by any guilds, as it was believed that waking The Sleeper would make the offending guild's players kill-on-sight to the other guilds of the server. After 3 hours and 15 minutes, at 26% health, Kerafyrm disappeared (despawned). The players talked with the EverQuest Game Masters, and there was a general consensus that a bug had caused the problem, although some suggested (backed by statements from one GM) that higher-ups at SOE had purposely despawned Kerafyrm, because it was not intended to be part of the story.

    The following day, the players logged in to find that Kerafyrm was back in his "sleeping" state, ready to be triggered again. There was also an apology on the official EverQuest forums from SOE, explaining that they had stopped the encounter because they feared the players were engaging the boss in an unintended manner. Although annoyed (the players pointed out that the reasons SOE gave could not have occurred, and felt lied to), they attempted to battle Kerafyrm once again.

    On November 17, 2003, after a nearly 3-hour battle, Kerafyrm was defeated. He had between 100 million and 400 million hit points, likely around 250 million (most EverQuest bosses have 2 million at most), was immune to all spells except wizard's manaburn spell and Shadow Knight's Harm Touch, possessed two death touch abilities (abilities that automatically killed players), and attacked players for 6999 damage per swing. By using the cleric's epic weapon and other resurrection spells, the players were able to bring their dead characters back into the battle faster than Kerafyrm could kill them all."

    ----

    This is making history in a virtual world. Nothing was handed to anyone, the community had to come together on their own will and dedication to see something happen.

    Ahhhh I remember the day when the legendary Sleeper fell.
    Every server was following the fight real time in cross-server chat  :)
    Nothing since has ever come even remotely close to the epicness of killing an unkillable god to the point that the game lore had to be changed (Sleeper was designed as unkillable).
    Good times.

    WoW is just a kiddy game compared to EQ and that's how we (EQ vets) have been calling WoW since launch, a kiddy game.

    If the Sleeper was designed as unkillable... someone sure sucked ass at coding.  I believe the Sleeper was designed to be very difficult to kill but definitely killable. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    laserit said:
    Benjola said:
    Xodic said:
    Benjola said:
    You know you are getting old when you see people putting WoW in a sentence with 'hard', 'hardcore' and 'non-casual'.
    None of those who say WoW is easy have ever cleared a Mythic raid, or even just killed a single Mythic boss.
    Or even tried 40 mans back in the day. Certainly wasn't for 'casuals', the prep being the most trying. 

    40 man raid? Sure, I bet that was an accomplishment. This, however, was EPIC. Something no game will ever achieve again by using the - everyone is a winner, just click this button approach .

    "The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

    On November 15, 2003, on the Rallos Zek PvP server, the three top guilds (Ascending Dawn, Wudan, and Magus Imperialis Magicus) assembled over 180 players with the intent to wake and kill The Sleeper. This was in response to an attempt to wake The Sleeper by an Iksar monk named Stynkfyst, who partnered with the largest random-pk guild of the time. Having been a former member of uber-guild Ascending Dawn, he had the knowledge the random pk guild needed to wake The Sleeper. The top guilds did not assemble their forces until word of Stynkfyst's intentions had spread, and it became clear that he intended to wake The Sleeper, forever preventing future guilds from farming the old loot table. Until this point, waking The Sleeper had not been seriously considered by any guilds, as it was believed that waking The Sleeper would make the offending guild's players kill-on-sight to the other guilds of the server. After 3 hours and 15 minutes, at 26% health, Kerafyrm disappeared (despawned). The players talked with the EverQuest Game Masters, and there was a general consensus that a bug had caused the problem, although some suggested (backed by statements from one GM) that higher-ups at SOE had purposely despawned Kerafyrm, because it was not intended to be part of the story.

    The following day, the players logged in to find that Kerafyrm was back in his "sleeping" state, ready to be triggered again. There was also an apology on the official EverQuest forums from SOE, explaining that they had stopped the encounter because they feared the players were engaging the boss in an unintended manner. Although annoyed (the players pointed out that the reasons SOE gave could not have occurred, and felt lied to), they attempted to battle Kerafyrm once again.

    On November 17, 2003, after a nearly 3-hour battle, Kerafyrm was defeated. He had between 100 million and 400 million hit points, likely around 250 million (most EverQuest bosses have 2 million at most), was immune to all spells except wizard's manaburn spell and Shadow Knight's Harm Touch, possessed two death touch abilities (abilities that automatically killed players), and attacked players for 6999 damage per swing. By using the cleric's epic weapon and other resurrection spells, the players were able to bring their dead characters back into the battle faster than Kerafyrm could kill them all."

    ----

    This is making history in a virtual world. Nothing was handed to anyone, the community had to come together on their own will and dedication to see something happen.

    Ahhhh I remember the day when the legendary Sleeper fell.
    Every server was following the fight real time in cross-server chat  :)
    Nothing since has ever come even remotely close to the epicness of killing an unkillable god to the point that the game lore had to be changed (Sleeper was designed as unkillable).
    Good times.

    WoW is just a kiddy game compared to EQ and that's how we (EQ vets) have been calling WoW since launch, a kiddy game.

    If the Sleeper was designed as unkillable... someone sure sucked ass at coding.  I believe the Sleeper was designed to be very difficult to kill but definitely killable. 
    Someone seems to think that is what happened.

    There were a lot of bugs in EQ and unforeseen things like kiting and soloing by some classes, but that was part of what made it fun.  You got to do things the developers hadn't envisioned.  You could call that lack of foresight on the developers part, but again it was one of the first MMOs and weather they intended certain things to be possible or not those things often led to players being creative and doing things no one thought possible at the time.

    http://wikibin.org/articles/kerafyrm.html

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Kyleran said:

    Where Did you ever get the idea that it's okay to be rude to someone or discourteous just because they're a stranger.


    It takes time to be rude ... unless you consider "ignoring" is rude. In that case, yeah .. totally ok online, particularly those who ask me to join their guild. I usually won't even reply.

    I don't expect to talk to others in an online game, and i don't expect others to talk to me (if i ask for some strange reasons). It is only fair. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775


    I'd have a cup of coffee with a stranger, including you, without any problems. I'd be disgusted to have a cup of anything with someone like Nariusseldon.


    Disgusted is such a strong word. I won't apply that to even those who disagree with me.

    And to be honest, i am not disgusted to have a cup of coffee with you ... i just won't bother.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Kyleran said:
    Xodic said:
    nariusseldon said:

    and even if you run by, i will just treat you like a NPC
    That's just mean, man.


    why? It is not mean to just ignore strangers, is it? You are not going to have a cup of coffee if a stranger ask you to on the streets of NYC, are you?
    Actually I would have a cup of coffee with a stranger in New York City. In fact I'm one of those weirdos that speaks to strangers in public all of the time. You are probably one of those people that looks at me so strangely and scurries past without even a Nadar hello
    I'd have a cup of coffee with a stranger, including you, without any problems. I'd be disgusted to have a cup of anything with someone like Nariusseldon.

    We all agree, disagree, cheer, complain here, but some people are just here to make trouble, and those do not deserve any kindness.
    Starting to like this guy more and more...

    /cheers

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775


    Not me....maybe a cup of tea or hot chocolate as I'm not much of a coffee drinker. ;)  
      I find that people like those you mention (not wanting to share a beverage with) are like those in RL that ignore you when you something courteous like opening a door for them, or allowing to pass in front of you. Weird looks they give, all of 'em. 
    I suppose just smiling is not too much work. We were talking about socializing and having coffees before, which takes a lot more work. If someone opens the door for me, i have no problem smiling for 2 seconds while walking through the door.

    Heck, i will even throw in "holding the door for the next person" ... as long as he does not want to tell me his life story.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    No matter what @nariusseldon says... he just loves to socialize with strangers.

     His post count proves it.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    edited January 2016
    laserit said:
    If the Sleeper was designed as unkillable... someone sure sucked ass at coding.  I believe the Sleeper was designed to be very difficult to kill but definitely killable. 

    No dude he wasn't supposed to be killed because in the Lore he was unkillable even by the dragon gods of EQ.
    Don't remember much of the lore but it had something to do with Veshan blah blah he couldn't be killed so he was put to sleep in the Slepper's tomb.
    Then if any guild managed to kill all warders in the tomb he wakes up, kills everything in site and the zone gets revamped (the drop rate of the awesome weapons that were the grand price of the zone were significantly lowered), that's why guild's weren't killing the last warder so they can farm the tomb first.

    That's why Kerafyrm (the Sleeper) had 100-150 times more HP then any other dragon and was hitting for 6k a pop which was about what the tanks of that era had, on top of casting a death touch of some kind AND he was immune to everything but a single spell or pets or something similar.

    He still got owned though and at a high cost, so many players lost like 10 levels or so but it was a testament of what's possible when players organize themselves and work together.
    Also, he didn't drop anything, no loot on Kerafyrm because he wasn't supposed to die.

    That's what we call old school gaming and this new generation of players will never get that feeling and experience in these lemonades of solo friendly MMOs they are currently playing.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,953
    Hardcore is one life, one chance and true hardcore is you lose your stuff when you log out

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    laserit said:
    No matter what @nariusseldon says... he just loves to socialize with strangers.

     His post count proves it.
    Oh please don't say that. That would mean since I've been here 1 year and 10 months longer than Nariuss and have only 1/15th of his posts I must be extremely anti-social.

    Say it isn't so....and I thought I was being social. :anguished: 
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    Oi , i love casual . I will leave the sleeper alone and back to my fishing , farming and trading if there wasn't ****ing labor point limited .

    While i do agree that we need some thing to **** player to dead , but most of time i prefer the casual side of MMO

    EXP penalty is no no . I can lost gold , i can lost item but not my precious EXP , i can throw money to buy gold , i can buy back the item , but lost the exp make my heart hurt .
    Specially at high level where the exp are more precious for casual player than the cheap items .

  • DeathRowInmateDeathRowInmate Member UncommonPosts: 64
    NetSage said:
    Closest you'll get are WoW, FFXIV, and maybe Wildstar(not sure about this one since F2P).
    Haven't played FFXIV, but WoW and Wildstar are both very casual. If you show up you progress. There's no challenge to these games, which (for me) means no sense of accomplishment.

    NOTE: I actually really like Wildstar. It's just a decent time waster though, about as rewarding as Candy Crush.
    Really? SO you beat all mythic bosses when the content was new?
  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,470
    Kopogero said:
    Is there such thing now? Closest non casual MMO's I've been fortunate to experience in the past were World of Warcraft BC, Lich King, Cataclysm and Pandaria expansions (very hard progressive raiding) and Star Wars Galaxies the path to unlocking force sensitive and then training jedi as well as going through the trials, while most bounty hunters and basically the galaxy is chasing for you to give you exp penalty.

    Raids back then in WOW the top progression guilds raided for 5+ days in the week for 4-5 hours as I recall. The reward for clearing the most difficult content through a short time frame was not just being the top guild on server, but also being able to ride some very rare and difficult to obtain mounts.
    Wildstar tried to be exactly what you are talking about and failed.

    Mostly because people don't want the stand around for an hour to get started anymore.  Trying to get a group of people that don't live together or are  not real life friends to do the same thing at the same time is horrible.  It is like trying to herd a bunch of cats.  Even most guilds today struggle to find players that don't have families to deal with, school, or something else, while raiding.  A lot of today's gamers are the players of 10 - 20 years ago, which means they have grown up and have lives which take precedence over gaming when need be.

    There can be niche games that are harder and require more but they will be just that niche.  A lot of today's younger players do not have the patience to run the same raid 10 times to get that one piece of gear.  Just to have to do it another 50 times for a whole set.  They play holding their hands out saying give me what I want now.  They don't understand how to work for something because today most things are handed out just for showing up.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited January 2016
    Having only a few things that are hard, or a minority of content that is hard does not make the game hard. It makes the game easy but with a few hard parts.

    edit - and that's fine. That's why I periodically come back to WoW. It lets me play at a level I choose and play (except for class restrictions which are ugh) how I like.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Xodic said:

    Just to clarify, people have a pretty good sense about who is approachable or not. This isn't derogatory, because it really works out great for you!


    Yes, it does. I don't even need the shirt. I have already perfected the "I am not interested so go away blank look". 
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    NetSage said:
    Closest you'll get are WoW, FFXIV, and maybe Wildstar(not sure about this one since F2P).
    Haven't played FFXIV, but WoW and Wildstar are both very casual. If you show up you progress. There's no challenge to these games, which (for me) means no sense of accomplishment.

    NOTE: I actually really like Wildstar. It's just a decent time waster though, about as rewarding as Candy Crush.
    Really? SO you beat all mythic bosses when the content was new?
    He doesn't even know what you're talking about.
    I do, but never made it that far. I got bored and stopped playing. But again, "difficult" does not mean "hardcore". To me, hardcore means depth and involvement, which I never felt in WoW (and I really tried). I can go create a boss with a bazillion HP for my game right now. Does that mean it's a hardcore game?

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,493
    NetSage said:
    Closest you'll get are WoW, FFXIV, and maybe Wildstar(not sure about this one since F2P).
    Haven't played FFXIV, but WoW and Wildstar are both very casual. If you show up you progress. There's no challenge to these games, which (for me) means no sense of accomplishment.

    NOTE: I actually really like Wildstar. It's just a decent time waster though, about as rewarding as Candy Crush.
    Really? SO you beat all mythic bosses when the content was new?
    He doesn't even know what you're talking about.
    I do, but never made it that far. I got bored and stopped playing. But again, "difficult" does not mean "hardcore". To me, hardcore means depth and involvement, which I never felt in WoW (and I really tried). I can go create a boss with a bazillion HP for my game right now. Does that mean it's a hardcore game?
    Tank and spank is not at all like the WOW raids I remember  and yes, they had a lot of depth and involvement, unless all you played was DPS I suppose.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • RynetRynet Member UncommonPosts: 114
    Kopogero said:
    Is there such thing now? Closest non casual MMO's I've been fortunate to experience in the past were World of Warcraft BC, Lich King, Cataclysm and Pandaria expansions (very hard progressive raiding) and Star Wars Galaxies the path to unlocking force sensitive and then training jedi as well as going through the trials, while most bounty hunters and basically the galaxy is chasing for you to give you exp penalty.

    Raids back then in WOW the top progression guilds raided for 5+ days in the week for 4-5 hours as I recall. The reward for clearing the most difficult content through a short time frame was not just being the top guild on server, but also being able to ride some very rare and difficult to obtain mounts.


    Everquest 1
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