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The question of representation in video games is not a new one, and continues to spark all kinds of discussions that range in topic and intensity. On one end of the spectrum, there are individuals and groups who advocate for the most possible diversity in gaming. On the other, there are camps who posit that there is no issue of representation in video games, or that it’s not a worthy topic of discussion.
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Right, but I can't make a morbidly obese wood elf, and my brother's ogre doesn't wear glasses.
I call foul
I can instinctively feel that certain traits are desirable, but as long as I don't choose to discriminate based on it, there is no issue.
Its also a shame that often times games turn to whitewashing or complete reboots to rebrand a "minority" race as something else in mmorpgs and their sequels.
Examples of this include the whitewashing of the Elonians and the Krytans from GW1 to GW2
The Arabization and whitewashing of the Redguard of the TES series
The complete washover of the Erudites of EQ2, basically then saying to the audience "Well you can make brown humans instead - which means nothing unique, nothing special about them, no lore and this insistence to take away culture to roll them under the the category of humanity being all the same, the washing away of all uniquness and the story aspects associated with them.
1. I want to see more portrayals of different cultures in my mmorpgs. I don't care if its Mongolian, East Indian, Native American or Russian. The same tropes over and over again makes things boring and as an explorer type I get tired of seeing the same Euro-tropes over and over again.
2. The complete dismissal of what new cultures and new lands in certain areas can bring to the mmo space as gameplay. For example - The African analogue lands offer better diamonds than anywhere else in the world thus causing everyone who wants diamonds to go there to find them as a crafting resource. The biggest bears are found in the Russian analogue area therefore as a crafter enabling me to get a higher fur yield if I wish to go hunt them down for my business. Housing in other lands offers choices that the standard area does not. Want an exotic home? Go across seas and find it. Want to learn that special type of Necromancy? Head to the Dark Jungles of the Africa analogue and find the natives that will teach it to you. Wish to learn how to make stronger swords using advanced asian mellalurgy that will teach you how to fold swords? Head over to the Asian analogue to find the greatest swordmaker there ever was ala Kill Bill.
I don't see why this is hard for most developers to grasp and in the Age of Google where a simple five minute search can teach you everything you want to know there are no excuses, period. Diversity just to have it lends credence to the cries of those that shout SJW to the mountain tops. Diversity that actually ADDS to the game world, its depth, its gameplay systems and its uniqueness brings validity on why it should be there because then it benefits everyone, not just those like myself who wish to play non Euro characters that matter to the world story. Besides if you are building a world you should treat it as a WORLD and not one large continent of vanilla ice cream sameness. Use diversity to add to the story and expand the world. Use it to add to players telling better stories of their own. Was I the only one who enjoyed seeing Xena travel to the Asian areas of her world because it offered a new story? I hope not. "I remember the time when we hung out with Prince Akim in his marble palace in Sonhai."
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
In the reverse, the absence of representation isn't always nefarious. Why must anyone feel slighted when, the protagonist or hero doesn't mirror the player. These are after all fictitious worlds, each with their own mythos, and need not represent every metric by which humans can self-identify. I think that diversity in games, reflects the diversity of those making and consuming them, as it should. It's a free-market and the dollar speaks the loudest, if products that do diversity "correctly" are rewarded with big sales, others will follow suit. Because of the lobby of LGBT community, I would argue that they are actually over represented on television.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Yes they do and yet we are still seeing the same inspirations being drawn from. Namely England with a smattering now of Italian.
Isn't it time for something new? I'd even go for Greek or Russian, just something NEW
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
my take on this whole thing? don't care, too busy playing to care who the other player is sleeping with
If you're going to make a claim like that, you probably want to back it up. All you did was state it and then take it as a given in the rest of that paragraph. I think it's far more likely that entertainment media has a negligible effect on us at most.
Having a racially diverse cast of characters in games that actually focus on characterization and in-game culture and lore is mostly redundant because many of these games have entirely different species. Anything that can be said using different races can be said using dwarves, or elves like Dragon Age:Origins did.
The article itself and all of its sources are beyond biased which is ironic since that is what they reported seek to battle. For every scantily clad well figured women, there are just as man hulking broad shouldered over muscled men in some equally revealing garb (you can thank the lesbians and "unattractive females" for their biased attacks on the uber representations of hot women meanwhile non of us dudes even come close to the male avatars we see and play as.)
For every white male hero saving the world, there is a white male evil ruler trying to take over the world but they will point that out and all of the stereotypes and subconscious thoughts it reinforces....but you will never hear any of that because it doesnt move the agenda of the liberal wackos who want to fill their egos by taking on the "plight" of the minorities.
We live in very disturbing times, where whites specifically males are under non stop assault from with in their own "homelands" and places of origin (america the slight exception being whites were not indigenous but the country was created by caucasians so it does count) . No other place in the WORLD does this occur where the indigenous race to that country is being attacked, forced to accept races from other countries and to then surrender their entire culture in lieu of these "minority immigrants". Don't believe me? goto china, any country in africa sans south africa, india, etc... and see what type of pressure they have to absorb "immigrants" from other areas of the world, and then observe any social/political pressures and policies to accommodate said immigrants. Look to find anything remotely resembling this type of article good luck.
It is truly disturbing the amount of blatant biases and discrimination against white people and white males which are OPENLY shoved down your throats by this vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives. Maybe even worse is the intimidation and bullying they use to suppress anyone who might oppose their views. You will instantly be labelled as a racist, sexist bigot (which they have created the stereotype that this is the worst possible type of human even lower than a murderer or rapist whom will atleast be given second chances). My post might come off as a little extreme but it the truth of what is transpiring. Just read this article, read the sources, read the news there is this insidious attack it never stops and these people have infiltrated the core of our information as they fill the ranks of teachers/professors and media/journalists. blacklivesmatter, the idea the core of our country is "evil old white male cronies", the never ending plight of the "minority" at the cost of the majority.
It has now seeped into gaming where you are being told you are a racist, and a sexist you just didn't know it! Those curvaceous female representations in your game are SEXIST (cause the males are not equally masculine to the extreme), you are a PERVERT because of those females in scantily clad outfits (there are no massive dude running around in loin clothes and all but the bare armor's) , you are a racist because well the games predominantly embrace YOUR OWN CULTURE (the fact most games allow you to customize your avatar to your liking doesnt matter, nor does the fact all of the antagonists are white men either because you know those stereotypes are real white men are evil controllers of the world).
I could go on and on to explain all of the evils and flat out lies and inaccuracies of this article and it's ilk. the message is this though, it is okay to be white, it is okay to be a man, it is okay to enjoy and appreciate the larger than life representations of the human race these games offer us, it is okay to enjoy and be proud of YOUR WHITE HERITAGE and all of the amazing things it has done for mankind, it doesnt make you a racist, you do not need to become submissive to other races and immigrants, this doesnt make you some white supremacist evil rich cronie trying to suppress and take the life blood of every other human on the planet. We can embrace our own culture, we can enjoy the image of beautiful people without prejudicing those who are not of our culture and race or less than perfection... I mean they tell you everyone else can BUT YOU the white male, you can do it also, do not be brain washed by these agenda driven ego maniacs and their mental disorders (you understand 99% of the time behind every article damning the "over sexualising of women in video games" is an unattractive lesbian who hates beautiful women and men for shunning her in her youth? They are the ones filled with hate and this is how they lash out). The state of normal is to appreciate and strive for these same attributes they try to demonize, these attributes are that of a healthy human that is why we are attracted to them.
You need to stand up for yourselves now because noone else will, you know it you see it all around you the attacks it never ends, it has no limits. The time is now to take a stand be confident and stand up for yourself.
TL DR; this article is utter and epic evil along with all of the manipulative and agenda driven "resources" it pulls from to fabricate a social science that is a flat out lie and goes against the core of humanity claiming human nature is "wrong" because some schmuck with a pencil arbitrarily decided it was".
Open your eyes new is there if you want it, better yet why don't you create it. A quick google search will provide you with a number of games based off greek and russian culture.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
Not sure how this is even remotely related to MMO, you wrote the article, but it's not even correct. Not by a long shot.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/04/09/president-obamas-persistent-77-cent-claim-on-the-wage-gap-gets-a-new-pinocchio-rating/
This was my favorite, terrible quote from this article you posted:
"Unless women stop getting married and having children, and start abandoning careers in childhood education for naval architecture, this huge gap in wages will almost certainly persist. "
And if you read the article, it's really not off "by a long shot." 77 cents is even correct unless, like this article, you consider that women who are expected by societal pressure to be the main caregivers for children and are discriminated against in many high paying STEM fields, deserve to make less money.
I believe John Boener's color is "Weekend Bender Orange".
I want to play an Insect species. How about oozes, slimes or lawyers.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It's not correct, that's why the Washington Post, gave it 2 pinnochio ratings.
It doesn't take into account how long you work, how many extra hours you work, which jobs you do.
Do you believe a man working on an oil rig doing incredibly dangerous jobs should not be allowed to earn more than women in a child care setting?
The top 10 most dangerous jobs are dominated by male professions. They should earn more, and I'm glad they do, because no one else will do those jobs.
Petroleum Engineering is 87% male. It is also one of the most dangerous and lonely jobs in the world.
And it doesn't take into account recent trends either. Women under 30 are now earning more in Europe than men: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
Nod, on purpose. I didn't want anyone accusing me of linking to a source on the political right, which would just be used as ammo against me.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Here is another quote from the article you posted:
"The president is relying on a simple calculation from the Census Bureau: a ratio of the difference between women’s median earnings and men’s median earnings. (The median is the middle value, with an equal number of full-time workers earning more and earning less.) That leaves a pay gap of 23 cents."
They go on to say that the wage gap is less if you look at hourly and weekly wages, which are typically lower paying jobs. It also goes on to mention that the wage gap goes UP if you look at things like part time workers. The article then points out, for the first of several times in their article, that if women would just STOP GETTING MARRIED!!!!! they would make as much as men do. (I guess we should ignore the fact that it makes no mention of marriage affecting the income of a man, because it apparently doesn't).
What I am trying to point out is that the 77 statistic is not necessarily an absolute number for the difference in pay, but it points out the inconsistencies in earning potential between men and women that highlight some very relevant problems that create a wage gap (women getting married, women working in lower paying fields, or even the willingness of the higher paying fields to consider women for employment). If you simply say, "Yeah, but if all those problems were just solved, the wage gap drops significantly" then what's the point? You are ignoring reality.
And I don't know anything about social politics in Europe or how that is relevant to anything regarding the wage gap in the U.S.
There are a lot of jobs out there with set salaries, male or female doesn't matter.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Besides the fact that your "facts" are all wrong, if a regular user had posted this in the forum, the post would have been removed by a mod.