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Mafia 3 and Race In Video Games
klash2def
Member EpicPosts: 1,949
Its 2015. Why are we still dealing with race issues in something as diverse as video games? Really think about this.
Recently the game series Mafia announced that the main character, Lincoln Clay is actually black and the story takes place in New Orleans. I read this and thought awesome! Finally some diversity this is much needed. I was very surprised to find out that most of the gaming community did not share that same excitement and were actually UPSET that the guy was black. This got me to thinking.. why dont video games feature more (not just black) people of color?
I am a 28 yr old african american male. I am a Marine Veteran and I have a Degree in Marketing and Web-Design with a focus in online gaming. I never once in my life really thought about or considered race ever in my time playing video games. Ive been playing my entire life and it never once dawned on me until this thing with Mafia 3.
Lets really think about this and what it means. Its not a secret how black people came to this country everybody knows this, and because of this its also not a secret black people were painted as inferior from the start. Its also not a secret that when Europeans came to this country they practically stole it from the Natives and once again painted a whole race of people as inferior. (See the theme?)
"Klash2def why are you bringing up the past?"
Because its important to understand the past to understand where we are now friend. Lets fast fwd time a little bit, slavery is abolished (but still legal in some places), move on to the civil rights era (great black leaders start to rise and stand for their people and rights, still didnt get them), then move on to the computer tech era lets say the late 70s early 80s. I point to this era because it was the first time we all were supposed to be on the same page mainly because of technology.
As a black person in those times it was just harder for you to get a job that you qualified for (in some cases over qualified) when it was between you and a white person ( i hate using the terms black and white but bare with me im using them here for context and there are so many versions of "black and white").
The way the country was set up from the start was wrong. It was set up for the europeans. It just was. Remember when they wrote "we the people" at the time the only "americans" were european so that's who they were making laws for in the start. Just FYI. This mentality of blacks are not equal begins a sad chain of events. I wont go into detail on that but if you need me to break it down for you, lets just say today as in right now this second, Black Men are demonized as people who want to automatically cause you pain or are trying to steal etc..based on how they look. I grew up a tall and lanky looking kid with glasses and a goofy walk. I posed no threat to nobody really unless you tried to physically attack me then it was on.. But I have friends who are like me in thought process but maybe they wore baggy clothes and that's enough to set off alarms of people that this kid is up to no good.. Ive experienced this in my own life several times. The point is, its tough already living in this era of consumerism but its even worse when you are black. It just is. Its very hard for people to understand, just like if you never have been homeless before its hard for you to understand what being homeless is about.
Im not upset, Im more curious as to what caused one group of people to just "Say" they are superior to everyone else and then make laws to prove it, letting that trickle down for future generations to have to suffer from it. (Continued Below)
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Post edited by klash2def on
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
When Mafia 3 announced a black lead, and I saw the backlash a few things came to my mind:
The game prob wont sell that much
Why isnt there more of this
Why are people upset at this
This is sad
We can count on one hand how many video games have had lead character who were not white men. Tomb Raider feats a woman but she was white. BTW I am a huge Tomb Raider fan and she is one of the only SUCCESSFUL female leads, (next to Samus) Im just pointing out the furthest they have gone to diversify is add white women to the hero mix. Again I need to remind you I am not upset, I enjoy video games, im pointing out facts, so if you are reading this in angry black guy voice please stop kek im not mad, really just disappointed if anything.
"BUT Over the years games have become more diverse" I agree. They have but not racial diversity no. Adding game features, better graphics etc mechanics.. those are not what diversifies a game. True they have had a handful of women leads, or added the option to be gay in the romance stories, but real diversity happens in very few games if any. The hero will 99.9 percent of the time be white male, and 99.9 if there IS a black character at all in the game it's a enemy or "bad guy"
Bro What about GTA5? What about it? Franklin Clinton is a former thug trying to figure out what to do with his life when we meet him.
What about GTA:SA? Same shit here.. Carl is sucked back into being a "Gangster" in a fictional version of 90's LA. Both of those games are iconic in my eyes because of the level of storytelling done here in relation to black people and the black reality. Both games arent far off from the truth of what its like to live in the shoes of a black man even if they are a bit over the top, its very familiar. But still.. two games. By Rockstar Games who arent known for having heroic game figures in the first place. I dont have a problem with how we are viewed there at all because its just a over-the top version of the reality.
2 games. Where are the lead black people in other games? Dont dare say oh they are in "Sports games" are you kidding me?
... Im talking about story driven games, fantasy, modern, shooters, whatever it may be, games where we invest in the story and feel attached the characters and their progression as people. Art. There are so many games, too many to name in fact but holy shit its real.. devs really exclude any lead that isn't white male. Its sad to me to think that if you replace any successful game with a black lead, but keep everything the same the game wouldn't be as successful and would be controversial. WHY? Why is it so wrong and controversial to have black people be the lead in video games? Lets go back to tomb raider.
Keep everything the same with Laura Croft and the game story. Only make her black. Are we playing a next gen Version of Tomb Raider this fall? Something tells me no, but what do you think? Do video games cater to white males more than other races? Why is that?
In my opinion yes they do but its a result of how the country was set up in the start. I dont blame the devs (unless they really are racist and really have an issue with black people). I will say in defense of video games, Bioware has always given the option to at least have a black avatar. But if you play those games, the first option in character creation is always white male.
Mafia 3 excites me as a fan of the series (amazing storytelling) not only because its a new entry, but because they are doing what everybody else is scared to do (why are you scared to have black leads devs?) and trying to actually diversify the culture. Its 2015 for crying out loud.. we should all be on an equal playing field but sadly we just arent. I hope that in the future we get to see more games take these so called "risks" and put somebody else in the hero/lead role for once. Our nation..our WORLD is a very diverse group of beings. Its about time our artforms start to actually show that diversity. +1 Mafia 3. I think they have an interesting opportunity to tell a great story just like the first two games. Lets hope we see more games willing to innovate like this.
PS: If what I said here bothers you, then ive done my job. It bothers me too believe me.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Nilin, the female and black main character in the game Remember Me is one of the best main characters ive seen in modern games. It is very unfortunate that the wrong company made that game and made it terrible. So much potential for character development with that new IP. Totally wasted.
People (including investors and publishers) who only want to see the stereotypical white dude as the main character in games are just dumb. There are plenty of options out there.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Now, a game could offer other options, but now you're talking about increasing development time in either the addition of new models (you're not just going to blackface the white guy, right?) or the addition of a character creator. This costs more money. Some games will do it (ex: Blood II, Mass Effect, GTA) but not every game has that in their budget.
Now, my African-American marketing friend, let's talk about that bias and prejudice you are concerned with. Another reason for the white male is that you have no limits on what you can do to the character. Insult him, abuse him, torture him, treat him like crap, display bias/prejudice/hatred toward him for any irrational reason... it's all acceptable. The same cannot be said about a female character or a character of color.
As for Mafia 3, I find it annoying that it takes place in a dump like New Orleans, however I'm more amused that you find it bothersome that others don't want to play a black mafia dude but see no issue in the dev contention that since it's in New Orleans the character has to be black.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am getting tired of all the racist talk back and forth.. Really tiring...
// Kappa
From a marketing pov I do understand what you mean, But again this is 2015, its video games.. art is the one form that is supposed to face these types of issues head on. I think it's lazy and uninspired to copy and paste the same John Doe guy in every game as the lead.
BTW I agree with everything you said except this: you have no limits on what you can do to the character. Insult him, abuse him, torture him, treat him like crap, display bias/prejudice/hatred toward him for any irrational reason... it's all acceptable.
In a video game sense, all of those things are accepted except prejudice. Prejudice is something that has to be handled very carefully as far whats the message we are trying to give here?
Ok, Let me keep it "100" I would bet a game based on African slavery here in america would be the most controversial game of all time, but I would not boycott it, I would play it even with all the shit in there based on if the game was telling a story of artistic value or not. If the game was simply: SLAVE KILLER 2019 then fuck no get that shit outta here.. but if its really telling a story and it's really trying to relay something of artistic value i'm for it.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Its amazing how people always use this when somebody brings up an legit inequality. This is the internet go-to when truth is spoken that makes some people uncomfortable. Look Its not my opinion, its what's actually happening. Be tired of devs being insensitive about it, not the people who bring it up. Again you don't need to respond if you are so tired.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Personally I think DS is making himself look bad although he had some points at the start more power to him if he thinks he has a issue who are we to say its not legit or valid, but yes you are right.. speaking up in this era of internet culture where people are followers, scared to think for themselves and have their own opinions.. yes you are crucified. Regardless of race or gender people are scared of people who are opinionated because again most of the internet culture relies on others to form their opinions for them.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
... and then seeing the game panned and ripped to shit for being another sexist damsel in distress trope.
Dude, Django Unchained would make a a damn good game, if for no other reason that the player can truly connect with the actions of the protagonist. What the player is doing can easily be seen or rationalized as right and just. Shooting Nazis or zombies? I never met a Nazi or zombie. Both are so far removed from my life that it's.. meh. Saving innocent people from racists monsters? Sign me the fuck up.
If nothing else, it would make far more sense than a mafia series saying "We need color. We need diversity. Content Team, get with Game Design and work on this. I want colored people on my desk by Monday! We're progressive here, dammit!"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
That was a crazy leap of logic. They are playing a game in a real life setting. Very different from when you go to a fantasy setting, however, if I explained how the racial and gender biases do exist even in the fantasy games for the sake of allowing players to connect, it would probably completely blow your mind.
"Isnt it supposed to be story that makes you relate?"
Yes, and the story has to make sense based on the audience's view of the world if you want them to play the main character of it and connect with the character. Right?
"If the story is about a black lead what is so hard to relate to if the story is great?"
As far as I am concerned, nothing. However, it doesn't make a difference what I think, as I'm not the guy buying the game. It isn't about you and me. It's about the hundreds of thousands that they are selling the game to. Their job is to sell to real people in the real world. They can TRY to change the world, but that's not the task that team was given. That team was given the task of making a game that will sell well to the target audience.
Don't get confused with the difference between what you and I may think/want and what the company's objective is.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
On the other hand, if the Mafia games are simply about organized crime of any ilk, the above does not apply as (unfortunately) organized crime cuts across all cultures, races, etc.
Its not about racism its about the whole "setting" actually. I also was like "a black dude on a mafia game? THE HELL" - anyone who have followed the mafia games and especially if you know its story know that this is a very bad move for the series.
On the other hand, if they made a game called "The Rise of the Black Panthers", hey it would be perfectly fine and it would make sense to have a black main character - in the same way, I would be "THE HELL?!" if they made "The Rise of the Black Panthers" and the main character was white.
EDIT: oh yes and making you play against the italian mafia is also a big turn off and part of the outrage.
I waited for a year to do this to you..
This was a year before you knew anything about the game. It was just a title and a black dude. Thanks for being an example of how quick people resort to bigotry when its black people.
I hope you see today how your true colors showed in my eyes.
I also hope everyone else sees why I was being so hopeful for other games also going in this direction in the future. It helps to change the conversation about POCs.
*Don't reply to this if you didn't read OP and the comments that followed thanks.*
PS: I just find it funny how you relate black people and thug as if all black people are thugs. Golden.
Tell me, are all games that feature guns and men shooting guns considered "THUG GAMES" or just the ones that have a black guy somewhere in the area?
next week we will discover how much of a 'thug' game it is. 10/10
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
My philosophy is that "Assholes come in all colors". The majority of the ones that I know are of my own color.
There is a lot of jerks in the world klash and every race and color is guilty of racism.
Personally I never wish ill for anyone and I don't want to be held accountable for what some assholes long in the past did.
People seem to have a real hard time respecting each other, regardless of race color or creed.
I'm just happy that where I live we do a pretty decent job of getting along and of course there is still much to improve.
I judge people for who they are, not what they are.
I sincerely wish the world to be a better place for everyone and I live by that.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I think 'stereotype' is more accurate.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
just saying...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I doubt that "most" of the gaming community was upset.
There are some really stupid, ignorant, abhorrent people in the gaming community (other communities as well, obviously) and they post their nonsense all the time.
Don't get upset because there is a scummy vocal minority that feels the need to inflict themselves on others. They give a bad name to the gaming community.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Take the green lantern, he was actually black in the magazines but the film cast a white man.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo