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What makes WoW combat so good?

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,862
    To the above poster...FFXI does all of that and imo better.Netcode?lmao FFXI you can play solidly with a 500-1200 ping and on JPN servers,i highly doubt you could pull that off in Wow.Matter of fact dude in this video at around 7:15 says "why am i lagging so much".

    As to animations,even i know FFXI only has a couple vertices as does WOW,animations may be smooth but utilizing only 1-2 vertices in an animation is total amateur hour,they had better be smooth or get a new profession.

    How about "leaving combat" seriously,you need to have that show up on the screen?Just more unneeded  screen clutter added to the spam.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnY2hzzn7oU
    Skip to around 50 secs and tell me that is smooth animations/graphics?I can't see a single thing that is going on in that combat,it just looks like FAST spam and nothing is visible.The ability to fly in on a flame also looks silly and unrealistic.

    4:45 really again shows the spam and non visible combat,all that 360 spinning around in circles and spam animations and words flying all over the screen.
    SO it is always opinion on what you want from a game for me i don't like stuff that looks silly and spammy.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Wizardry said:
    To the above poster...FFXI does all of that and imo better.Netcode?lmao FFXI you can play solidly with a 500-1200 ping and on JPN servers,i highly doubt you could pull that off in Wow.Matter of fact dude in this video at around 7:15 says "why am i lagging so much".

    As to animations,even i know FFXI only has a couple vertices as does WOW,animations may be smooth but utilizing only 1-2 vertices in an animation is total amateur hour,they had better be smooth or get a new profession.

    How about "leaving combat" seriously,you need to have that show up on the screen?Just more unneeded  screen clutter added to the spam.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnY2hzzn7oU
    Skip to around 50 secs and tell me that is smooth animations/graphics?I can't see a single thing that is going on in that combat,it just looks like FAST spam and nothing is visible.The ability to fly in on a flame also looks silly and unrealistic.

    4:45 really again shows the spam and non visible combat,all that 360 spinning around in circles and spam animations and words flying all over the screen.
    SO it is always opinion on what you want from a game for me i don't like stuff that looks silly and spammy.
    I've only tried FFXI briefly, so I can't speak in detail about it.

    I was immediately turned off by the terrible visual aesthetic and drone-like quest design. WoW looks so much more vibrant and attractive to me.

    As for "leaving combat" - I don't really know why that's relevant.

    We're talking about why WoW combat is so good. Obviously, a lot of people think it's fantastic - so we're not asking IF it's good, but WHY it's good.

    I've played WoW for years, so I don't really need to watch a youtube video to know it's one of the smoothest games around.

    But I completely agree the animations are quite primitive and lacking in detail. I'm not sure why you point that out though, unless you don't know what smooth means. I said they were smooth - not highly detailed.

    Smooth, to me, is about speed, fluidity and world integration. It's not really about how many cells a given animation has.

    WoW is very old now, and it clearly suffers in terms of detail. I wouldn't dispute that at all.

    But in terms of overall combat - including animations, feel, responsiveness, class abilities, balance - and so on - it's more or less unmatched in my experience. I've played almost all major MMOs - but I admit that FFXI isn't one I have a lot of experience with.

    I dislike most asian MMOs - as they don't seem to cater to my preferences and playstyle. They seem overtly grindy and gamey. Maybe I'll give it another shot down the line.


  • Little-BootLittle-Boot Member UncommonPosts: 158
    What makes WOW combat bad: -

    1. A lack of movement or the ability to dodge. Curving spells or arrows should never happen. 
    2. Macros. Any game that is so over-stretched in moves that macros are required is a failure. Games should be easy to learn and hard to master... they should not require endless macros in order to win. This is the spreadsheet method of fighting and it appeals to the least twitch happy most tediously spreadsheet orientated players. 
    3. It has been simplified down to the lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, it was once fun, but these days it is just simplified to the point of homogeneity. 
    4. Balance in PVE combat for the purposes of PVP. Again this results in homogeneity of classes. Rock, paper scissors please! PVP should not dictate PVE.
    5. You're out of luck you're out of time. This tab-targeting combat is old. It may be that people do not like change, and that is fine, but do not try to deprive others of change. WOW combat is a result of 10 year old technology. I for one am very glad that advances over the last ten years allow for more twitchy combat.   
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,333
    What makes WOW combat bad: -

    1. A lack of movement or the ability to dodge. Curving spells or arrows should never happen. 
    2. Macros. Any game that is so over-stretched in moves that macros are required is a failure. Games should be easy to learn and hard to master... they should not require endless macros in order to win. This is the spreadsheet method of fighting and it appeals to the least twitch happy most tediously spreadsheet orientated players. 
    3. It has been simplified down to the lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, it was once fun, but these days it is just simplified to the point of homogeneity. 
    4. Balance in PVE combat for the purposes of PVP. Again this results in homogeneity of classes. Rock, paper scissors please! PVP should not dictate PVE.
    5. You're out of luck you're out of time. This tab-targeting combat is old. It may be that people do not like change, and that is fine, but do not try to deprive others of change. WOW combat is a result of 10 year old technology. I for one am very glad that advances over the last ten years allow for more twitchy combat.   
    It's easy to recognize someone who hasn't played WOW in a long time, if he ever played it...
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    There is a huge flaw that WoW needs to address and im sure its been going around in the circles of players even those who are the most hardcore fans and that is the faceroll difficulty...Now don't get me wrong, i play other mmos but i also played WoW until level cap and just find it way too easy at the core. They throw a lot of stuff at you to keep you distracted from the real issue that the core is too easy if you REALLY wanted to play it straight up to win you would so very easily without all the fancy other abilities you would put in. I played Vanilla WoW, coming from a raid resume in Everquest i dont think i died more than 5 times up until level 50 as a paladin on a solo level. At level 30 i was soloing nameds or elite mobs and thats when it hit me something is wrong. I continued making gold and buying from the auction house to gear myself but it seems every log in was something to "grind for gear" day. At level 50 i had enough. I think i burned through a whole area of mobs by myself to reach an elite mob in the mountaintops just to take a rare sword that made everything much easier than it already was. Yes it took effort but, There's games out there that even at your very best it would take a serious leap of skills and training to achieve a much less and less OP reward then what WoW gives you. The experience of a gear grind makes everything an inevitable chore and seeing other peoples disgruntled experiences with this game it would take an Absolute Miracle for me to go back to WoW. At that point i changed my password and scrambled it so i could never log in ever again. I don't particularly hate it, but i felt gypped somehow by playing it. 

    I now spend my days raiding in 2016 Everquest in the newest expansion and playing Elder Scrolls Online casually. I think the action combat generation is the next big thing. I also think raiding in Everquest is MUCH more tough than raiding in WoW though i never raided in WoW while i played. There is a maximum mental effort and fail meaning you concentrated on the wrong things approach in Everquest than Lets shoot a basketball from 35 feet in WoW where its all luck if you win or lose. I mean i watch mythic raids on twitch and it seems to me the problem is that people somehow got zapped while in a red telegraph. So if you toss a coin in the air of how you play that certain day you win a mythic raid. The only difference is theres lots of coins you need to fall in your favor cause mythic fights are too long. I dont know thats what i have observed in watching mythic raids in WoW in draenor...In Everquest, it takes a winning strategy that only the top guilds have stored with their officers or raid leaders, the heirarchy is the success in Everquest. You learn it and you kiss their ass because they are the only ones that can give you that ubar loot you desire. If you have no structure in the guild everyting falls apart. You raid strategist or leader needs ABSOLUTE control of actions of the raid meaning Teamspeak comms is an absolute must because the raid leader will talk for 10 minutes prior to the start of the event and during the event with almost everyone relaying statuses or info or combat queries. Out of the 54 people that show up every raid 45 will be talking on the mic. We also have meetings with other people in our classes on a set day of the week for 2 hours i mean some people have work for gods sake! But still, its usually on the weekend so its no bother. We have people who dig up information on the internet up on any fight upcoming that needs to be tackled or class strategies to maximize player preformance and we have groups going out every time you log in to get some of the rarest items in the game. Overall, its a second job but nothing like it compares with any other game out there! 
  • cesmode8cesmode8 Member UncommonPosts: 431
    WoW combat is archaic.

    The only things it has going for it is sometimes you get some really interesting rotations, and the execution of the rotations is sometimes fun.  Thats it.

    The combat itself is not very engaging.  No need to aim.  Just tab target, watch for bad floor, go through rotations.  Much prefer some hybrid of tab target + true action, or just full on true action.

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    World of Warcrafts combat system?  It's pretty old at this point and most people have already scavenged the system of it's good parts and reused them in other games, but what makes the WoW combat system good is  simplicity.  It doesn't make people worry about dodging and instead focuses on tempo and rhythm via a rotation on a hot bar, so a lot of people can pick up on it really quickly.  This is actually pretty different from Final Fantasy XI or older games as while those games had hot bars, they weren't about tempo.  The hot bars were meant to act as short cuts to abilities on a character sheet as combat was meant to be a bit more strategic.
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,255
    Fluid, intuitive combat with a graphical art style that is pleasing to the eye and doesn't overload the average CPU.

    Most other games I have tried seem to fail in the basic mechanics or come off rough.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,544
    GW2 instances turned me off of the non Trinity style MMO.  There were barely any skills to use either.
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    What makes WOW combat bad: -

    1. A lack of movement or the ability to dodge. Curving spells or arrows should never happen. 
    2. Macros. Any game that is so over-stretched in moves that macros are required is a failure. Games should be easy to learn and hard to master... they should not require endless macros in order to win. This is the spreadsheet method of fighting and it appeals to the least twitch happy most tediously spreadsheet orientated players. 
    3. It has been simplified down to the lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, it was once fun, but these days it is just simplified to the point of homogeneity. 
    4. Balance in PVE combat for the purposes of PVP. Again this results in homogeneity of classes. Rock, paper scissors please! PVP should not dictate PVE.
    5. You're out of luck you're out of time. This tab-targeting combat is old. It may be that people do not like change, and that is fine, but do not try to deprive others of change. WOW combat is a result of 10 year old technology. I for one am very glad that advances over the last ten years allow for more twitchy combat.   
    It's easy to recognize someone who hasn't played WOW in a long time, if he ever played it...
    An actual counterpoint might help more.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    Well designed skills, classes actually play differently and a player who knows their class will get much more out of it than a new player.

    NO ANIMATION DELAY.  When you push the button, your attack happens instantly, the animation may take a moment but the attack was in fact instant.

    Low GCD.  I never realized how important this was until I played FFXIV.

    I think something that often gets overlooked in MMOs is also camera work - WoW's camera is very adjustable, has plenty of sensitivity options, has no acceleration and no smoothing (or they can be disabled I can't remember).

    Movement is instant.  Just like with skills, there is no animation delay.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    edited January 2016
    It is fluid and the animation rarely clips.

    Even if I haven't played WoW in a long time I must say I see think it is by far one of the smoothest. A lot of mmos that came before or after it you often see more animation clipping and delay reaction.
  • SteelhelmSteelhelm Member UncommonPosts: 332
    It's the responsiveness. No lagging, no smoothing, feels instant, animations feel dead on

    Auto-attack.
    I liked it even more when auto-attack was more prevalent and combat was slower. I'm not a fan of the flashing lights on the screen that say: You should use this skill. It's just too much holding hands for me. Freedom deprived.
    Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,333
    Steelhelm said:
    It's the responsiveness. No lagging, no smoothing, feels instant, animations feel dead on

    Auto-attack.
    I liked it even more when auto-attack was more prevalent and combat was slower. I'm not a fan of the flashing lights on the screen that say: You should use this skill. It's just too much holding hands for me. Freedom deprived.
    The "you should use this skill" thing is either a (quite bad) addon, or something in the base UI just to get your attention on cooldowns which just ended, nothing forces you to use the skill immediately.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


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