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What killed MMORPGs for you

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,081
    Poster above you are quite accurate but there is more.
    this f2p monicker has allowed a LOT of really bad game developers to flood the market.This same FREE allows a lot larger crowd to flood all the games.
    When people had to buy the game and pay a sub fee,you know they were serious about the game and likely also did some homework before jumping in.

    Now because the market just heads in every direction we can't even trust a sub fee is an accurate rating of a game because devs now use that as a "starting point" to get as much added money out of the fanbois as possible.Then as soon as things die off they go f2p which was the plan from day 1.

    If we got back to sub fees,it would eliminate all those bad games,the quality games would remain popular,devs in those popular games would continue to make good money and continue to create good contnent.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771

    The fact that people are throwing large sums of money at them in the hopes that they might be able to make a decent game?


    uh .. what large sums of money?

    Aside from Star Citizen, which KS game received "large sums of money"? AAA MMO costs 10s to 100s of millions to make. 
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472

    The fact that people are throwing large sums of money at them in the hopes that they might be able to make a decent game?


    uh .. what large sums of money?

    Aside from Star Citizen, which KS game received "large sums of money"? AAA MMO costs 10s to 100s of millions to make. 
    http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=273853

    "Well, I spent $600 US and the things that I wanted Never Dropped."

    "never be good at this game without spending $50,000-$100,000 US"

    "Just an example, but +8 pvp sets are going for less than 2000 USD"

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • Little-BootLittle-Boot Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Velocinox said:
    Velocinox said:
    Velocinox said:
    The people that expect the developers to make a game for their 0.0000000001% of the gaming population and have their children go hungry or have to leave the gaming industry so that the 4 people that want forced grouping, open world pvp, full loot, hardcore death penalty can play their game.
    Such an insignificant portion of the gaming population has managed to ruin the games for you?

    They must be pretty powerful, maybe we should look into doing what they say.
    They are.. CU, CF, and tons more will be made. The PvP locust swarm will descend consume, and move on and the now 'me too' old school developers still won't learn their lesson.

    Hey Mark, how's Warhammer Online?
    Hey Gordon, what was the PvP % in SWG? Why did UO go Tamriel?
    Even you Richard... Didn't PvP save Tabula Rasa?

    Ah well.. it's not my money... but then it's not theirs either. ;)
    It sounds more like you're upset nobody is making games for you.
    And it sounds like you're snarking sound bites as you troll the forums.
    I suppose the post I quoted of yours wasn't snarky or trolling at all, and was filled with vital information.

    Listen to yourself first, then you should allow yourself to talk.
    How does he do that? Morse code ?
  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp Member UncommonPosts: 370

    The fact that people are throwing large sums of money at them in the hopes that they might be able to make a decent game?


    uh .. what large sums of money?

    Aside from Star Citizen, which KS game received "large sums of money"? AAA MMO costs 10s to 100s of millions to make. 
    Using the largest crowd funding project of all time as the rule to establish your criteria, when it has received more than 4 times more funding than the closest project overall, is just lol. I never suggested that players need to fund the entire game just to establish their interest in such a game. Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions is large sums of money, and if they meet their kickstarter goals it's really irrelevant how much you think is a lot or how much you think they should spend on a game.
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,568
    what killed everything for me is RNG..... and excessive cash shop BS
     
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
     Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions is large sums of money
    for making MMOs? You must be joking.
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    what killed everything for me is RNG..... and excessive cash shop BS
    huh?  MMORPGs started out with Random Number Generation (RNG).  So you disliked them from the get-go?

    VG

  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp Member UncommonPosts: 370
    edited January 2016
     Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions is large sums of money
    for making MMOs? You must be joking.

    I never suggested that players need to fund the entire game just to establish their interest in such a game.
    Keep moving those goal posts sport.

    Also you missed the memo where AAA developers aren't spending 100' of millions to make MMO's anymore. I'll go ahead and send you another copy of that memo so you can join the discussion.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,217
    Vardahoth said:

    I will start:

    • Cash shops / Free to play
    • Instances
    • Fast forward leveling to max level.
    • Factions
    • World of states (killing open world)
    • No more open world pvp or competition
    • Solo play to end game
    • Battle grounds (especially ones with no rewards that make your character stronger in the world)
    • Play every class at the same time (taking away unique roles for groups)
    • No death penalties
    • Nothing to punish you for making mistakes
    • Gear/Item binding
    • Upgrade your class with the click of a button.
    • What used to be 40+ class choices is now like 4.
    • No more healers or support classes.
    • Everyone starts at the same location and zones through the same places till level cap.
    • These caps of you can only do this 2 times per week
    • Releasing unfinished games with bugs that make you feel like a QA tester vs a video game player.
    I'll add more as I think of some. But I think this is a good start.
    Another posting that makes me think "Vanguard".

    And thats my main issue - Vanguard has shut down and left a huge void.
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
     Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions is large sums of money
    for making MMOs? You must be joking.

    I never suggested that players need to fund the entire game just to establish their interest in such a game.
    Keep moving those goal posts sport.

    Also you missed the memo where AAA developers aren't spending 100' of millions to make MMO's anymore. I'll go ahead and send you another copy of that memo so you can join the discussion.
    nah .. just the goal posts that actually have enough to make a decent MMOs.

    In fact, you are making the my point ... AAA devs aren't interested in MMOs (actually only classical mmorpgs .. they still make games like World of Warship) ... and KS can't fund proper mmorpgs.

    Classical style mmorpg is pretty much a thing of the past. 
  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp Member UncommonPosts: 370
     Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions is large sums of money
    for making MMOs? You must be joking.

    I never suggested that players need to fund the entire game just to establish their interest in such a game.
    Keep moving those goal posts sport.

    Also you missed the memo where AAA developers aren't spending 100' of millions to make MMO's anymore. I'll go ahead and send you another copy of that memo so you can join the discussion.
    nah .. just the goal posts that actually have enough to make a decent MMOs.
    Your goal posts are now "AAA theme park with bloated development cost due to using a shitty engine."

    Not decent MMO's.

    It doesn't even look like you have a point tbh.
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408
    I just want something else to do besides go on PvE quests and raids or PvP...something like roleplay, or GMing, or building again.

    Today's games just don't do any of it.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771

    Your goal posts are now "AAA theme park with bloated development cost due to using a shitty engine."

    Not decent MMO's.

    at least i am not talking about KS projects with little hope for a decent game, and sometimes no game at all, and that $100k is "a lot of money".
  • AryanRoAryanRo Member UncommonPosts: 48
    Short list..

    World of Warcraft... Player base that came out from this game has been a nightmare onward.. gold spamming.. water down system that pretty much sunk the mmo world.. this game was not the best that happen to mmo its the worst.. 

    PVP
    Oh we need pvp this and that.. we need to mix pvp with pve... err dev gave it to you people and still not satistfied.. no matter how many pvp and open pvp mmo are made have not been enough.. hope dev get the idea that this route doesn't work having pvp servers was a good idea .. having duels in normal pve server was good.. open world pvp doesn't work.. cause this players will jumpship to the next mmo they think is cool and hot and most play lol... 

    Free 2 play..
    Oh we need more f2p games .. you got it... yup along with cash shops and others stuff that killed sub games.. oh I cant pay for that.. yeah this players will not cash pay for that item they want but.. but will use their in-game coin to buy and nag over open chat to buy cash shop items yet sometimes I wonder how they make the in-game coin they are the ones that say making in game money is easy yet the how would be interesting.. (bots, alts, third party software come to mind).. funny right.. 


    What killed mmo games..when dev's started to listen to game communities which would never come into agreement.. there you have EQNext, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa.. and so many games where dev's listen to the player base and got more confused to the point they went belly up..  They should learn to do what movie directors do they present their vision and what not whether the movie flops or not is to the audience since you cant make everyone happy.. but present an idea for show when its done..

    if you let the player base decide what the game contents will be in the game what is the point of playing the game if you already know how the game works..
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,081
    Just because people call 1500 really bad games a spade doesn't meany anyone is fed up with mmorpg's.It simply means we are still waiting for a quality game that we can feel warrants our time and money.

    I will check out 90% of the new games that come out,but i am not going to fabricate some nonsense or make excuses for them,if it is crap i will say so plain and simple.
    When a game comes out that shows some promise i will say so,but not until i see the finished final product "NO early access crap" will i give a game a Triple A rating or a good quality B rating.

    The farce is what websites are for,they have to butter up even the most blatant crap because they don't make money telling the truth about games.Same reason you shouldn't buy into too many You Tubers either,they make money the same way.Point being,don't go off buying crap games on a whim,you just make them look better than they really are because then someone will come back and say oh wow look 500k copies sold.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,969
    Nothing killed them for me personally. There's more game choices and features now than there ever was. I started playing MMO's with EQ back in late '99 and I definitely wouldn't want to go back to that style of MMO now. There was way too much tedium for my tastes. We had fun at the time because the genre was new, there were few other choices, and we didn't know any better. Now I have dozens and dozens of options, and none of them require nonsense like camping a static spawn for 8 hours straight.
  • DrDread74DrDread74 Member UncommonPosts: 308

    MMOs have all become very mechanical and by the numbers. There is no sense of adventure or any of the reasons why we started playing Roleplaying games, the original ones from books, in the first place.

    Perhaps we should go back to the real thing instead of this video game wannabie version. I hear that Board games on Kickstarter are funding more than double what is shelled out to video games.

    Maybe as you get older and had played MMOs for a while, you "grow up" and realize that these MMos are just shiny and whiz bang with bright colors but have no substance. Just like your taste buds go from drinking ketchup mixed with candy in a cup to more complicated food choices. Your palette for RPG entertainment has gone from browser game MMO candy to a fun and engaging night with friends at the game table.


    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/
     An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
  • FirstKnight117FirstKnight117 Member UncommonPosts: 106
    @ DrDread74  I have the same theory, I know things have changed for me as I've gotten older and not only tastes have changed, but priorities etc.

    Having said that, I do think there are SOME options for some players out there that do bring back that sense of adventure. For me it's been FF14 and ESO. That may bring plenty of flames who disagree, but my point is the same, we have options now that we didn't in 1999.

    Still, the real thing does seem hard to beat. Heck, I've even started to return to reading books instead of gaming, can't beat it even today. :awesome:

    IMHO of course.
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 572
    AryanRo said:
    Short list..

    World of Warcraft... Player base that came out from this game has been a nightmare onward.. gold spamming.. water down system that pretty much sunk the mmo world.. this game was not the best that happen to mmo its the worst.. 

    PVP
    Oh we need pvp this and that.. we need to mix pvp with pve... err dev gave it to you people and still not satistfied.. no matter how many pvp and open pvp mmo are made have not been enough.. hope dev get the idea that this route doesn't work having pvp servers was a good idea .. having duels in normal pve server was good.. open world pvp doesn't work.. cause this players will jumpship to the next mmo they think is cool and hot and most play lol... 

    Free 2 play..
    Oh we need more f2p games .. you got it... yup along with cash shops and others stuff that killed sub games.. oh I cant pay for that.. yeah this players will not cash pay for that item they want but.. but will use their in-game coin to buy and nag over open chat to buy cash shop items yet sometimes I wonder how they make the in-game coin they are the ones that say making in game money is easy yet the how would be interesting.. (bots, alts, third party software come to mind).. funny right.. 


    What killed mmo games..when dev's started to listen to game communities which would never come into agreement.. there you have EQNext, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa.. and so many games where dev's listen to the player base and got more confused to the point they went belly up..  They should learn to do what movie directors do they present their vision and what not whether the movie flops or not is to the audience since you cant make everyone happy.. but present an idea for show when its done..

    if you let the player base decide what the game contents will be in the game what is the point of playing the game if you already know how the game works..
    Everquest next is a bad example to use there. Development of the title is taking awhile yes, but it didn't go "belly up" it is likely far more complex than they have realized though to actually build an MMORPG world out of voxels which while fun and destructible don't lend themselves well to a non instanced world with many people running around (Voxels are very CPU dependent). 

    You also have had the main focus of development shift back in june of 2015 from landmark to EQ Next as well so there is activity there and it is why landmark hasn't seen much in terms of updates. 
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Still...nothing did

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    edited January 2016
    All the companies trying to copy the WoW formula and failing soured me, the latest big fail for me was the one that annoyed me the most.  FFXIV being a direct wow clone made me so mad because it ignored all the great things in the previous game, the fact they mislead to get people to think the failure was actually a success just annoys me more.

    On the positive side, there are few if any new mmorpg titles in production.  So you won't have anything to hate now.
  • Zen00Zen00 Member UncommonPosts: 152
    The thing that annoys me most is the lack of any MMOs with truly good storylines.
  • syltmackasyltmacka Member UncommonPosts: 356
    Greed.
  • epicpantzepicpantz Member UncommonPosts: 11
    it has not been killed for me... but I am looking for one that I truly love...  i'm a casual gamer, by which I mean, I don't play everyday, but when I sit down to play I want to play for a few hours, and I want to do that a couple times a week.  Like other hobbies.  I want things to think about, puzzles to solve.  Engaging stories.  Characters that are truly unique and require development over time.  Quests that actually require you to read them, and do some exploration and thinking, instead of just click, tap a few buttons, click.  Options for how to proceed, that actually have an effect on game play and story.  How is this for an idea for skills... instead of allowing everyone to become uber badass at all sorts of things... maybe if you don't use them for a while they start to reduce their effectiveness?  Oh and this thing where you can instantly rearrange your skills/stats/class is no good either.  And social interaction.  And things where you have to work together sometimes.  And some things where not everyone can do them.  And lots of factions that have interaction and that help drive and shape and modify the story.  And if the storytellers set up something, but somehow the players cause it to go a different direction, then go that way, s a natural course of events.  Now you have a protagonist/antagonist relationship built right in.  Immersive interaction.  And yes I like good graphics and interesting scenery and weather.  Give me a 2 week trial and if I like it I will subscribe and stick with it for a long time.  I want something that is going to keep my interest, and therefore you will continue to get paid.  
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