Retro systems definitely have a niche place in the market but I don't see a return to the days of EQ and UO on a massive scale. Any more than I could predict a fleet of Model T's rolling out of Detroit in the middle of the 21st century. The people that are doing this may be 'indie' in the strict sense of the word, but I think a more apt descriptor would be 'inexperienced'.
I'm not talking about retro. I'm talking about solving the same problem without the instancing crutch. Camping timed spawns, kill stealing and all that shit were obviously problems and were replaced by instancing as the handy solution.
You're just thinking the problem had only one solution - I don't.
So what do you imagine would be an acceptable replacement?
The boss spawn camping problem as well as kill stealing both have already been solved for open world situations in multiple games by using the simple system of giving everyone participating in the kill credit and loot. Some MMOs even go so far as upping or lowering the difficulty on the fly depending on how few or how many are fighting.
Beyond that EQN, at least on paper, discussed having mobs spawn and migrate trying to get away from predictable canned spawns which are still a problem.
Kill job quests are still the biggest issue directing a stream of players at the same spot to do the same thing to the same mob boss. But those are optional things no matter how ubiquitous they have become in current MMOs - better dynamically generated "job" systems that don't channel everyone down the same exact path would be an improvement on modern day MMO canned questing.
But you knew all this already didn't you?
participation trophy and loot for everyone for showing up!
As opposed to that epic loot you get for soloing the boss that is exactly like that epic loot everyone gets one at a time? Lol.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Retro systems definitely have a niche place in the market but I don't see a return to the days of EQ and UO on a massive scale. Any more than I could predict a fleet of Model T's rolling out of Detroit in the middle of the 21st century. The people that are doing this may be 'indie' in the strict sense of the word, but I think a more apt descriptor would be 'inexperienced'.
I'm not talking about retro. I'm talking about solving the same problem without the instancing crutch. Camping timed spawns, kill stealing and all that shit were obviously problems and were replaced by instancing as the handy solution.
You're just thinking the problem had only one solution - I don't.
So what do you imagine would be an acceptable replacement?
The boss spawn camping problem as well as kill stealing both have already been solved for open world situations in multiple games by using the simple system of giving everyone participating in the kill credit and loot. Some MMOs even go so far as upping or lowering the difficulty on the fly depending on how few or how many are fighting.
Beyond that EQN, at least on paper, discussed having mobs spawn and migrate trying to get away from predictable canned spawns which are still a problem.
Kill job quests are still the biggest issue directing a stream of players at the same spot to do the same thing to the same mob boss. But those are optional things no matter how ubiquitous they have become in current MMOs - better dynamically generated "job" systems that don't channel everyone down the same exact path would be an improvement on modern day MMO canned questing.
But you knew all this already didn't you?
All of this just makes the dungeon seem like a trivial experience. If the game or dungeon is popular that means there will always be people coming and going, making this dark mysterious dungeon more like a city market square.
Everyone has likes and dislikes and it sounds like you enjoy a more private experience. Nothing wrong with that, just your preference.
Me? I like crowds in my MMOs... which is probably why enjoy the zerg on zerg PVP some others scoff at... shrug.
You read too much into my reply. I'm just offering an opposing viewpoint. If the thread went in a instance discussion direction I would be countering that it's harder to get a group and often feels very isolated even when not intended. I'm just trying to spark discussion. I see advantages and disadvantages to both, and want to hear what others think. The only way to do that is offer them an alternative view.
As far as liking crowds in MMOs.. Well, anyone that makes their living creating them would heartily agree with you there. :pleased:
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
If the game already satisfies your need for group, solo, or mixed content... What do public dungeons bring to the table?
What is the trade off between an instanced dungeon or public dungeon in an otherwise open world MMO mean to you?
Have you ever played a game with a public dungeon?
It's very "alive". While instanced dungeons are about you/your party, a public dungeon is about "place" and community.
Depending upon the game, a public dungeon can be a source for enemy players to try to attack you/take away your area.
You can sometimes find immediate groups and even trade in public dungeons.
I remember areas in cruma tower (Lineage 2) where players hung out, traded, made groups, conversed. It was very social. I also remember having to fight our way up the Tower of Insolence to get at an enemy clan/alliance that attacked our clan mates.
It was a lot of fun and definitely cemented in game friendships.
Camping rooms/spawn points was a lot more entertaining than grinding quests with no dialog, reward or really any point to them at all. At least with camping you had a chance of a boss to spawn that would drop a item you or a group member needed or wanted.
The rush you had of racing another group to a point and either outlasting them or flat out killing your way there faster. I never cared about people training because if you had a competent group you knew how to handle it. Don't get me wrong I like instances for story/quest purposes but give me a open dungeon any day over instance. The thing that I noticed in public dungeons is they weeded a lot of people out that did not play there class well, not saying it did that to everyone but in a public setting you knew who was good and who wasn't, you got to see them in action next to you or in your same group. Instanced keeps a lot of stuff private in that regards.
Not saying this is everyone in this thread or anything but ive noticed quite a few(again not all) that don't like open public dungeons usually were in the crowd that couldn't find a group cause they were not that good.
Also I would like to see a dungeon that starts of soloable then progressively gets harder and harder in a new game setting like they were in the old days just to see how it would populate, give the mobs real drops and real rewards for completing it, not this boring exp + gold + mediocre item.
Everyone has likes and dislikes and it sounds like you enjoy a more private experience. Nothing wrong with that, just your preference.
Absolutely. Me, i don't want a crowd in my games. If i want to take a number and wait my turn, i go to a grocery store.
Plenty of singleplayer games on sale on Steam now. About 10,000 of them. Yet here you are trolling MMORPG forums.
and i am playing many of them. But hey, if MMO devs want to make their games more single player like, I have no problem giving them a chance, and discuss it on MMO forums.
It is not like MMOs are geared towards persistent worlds with public dungeons anymore. If so, you think i will be here?
If the game already satisfies your need for group, solo, or mixed content... What do public dungeons bring to the table?
What is the trade off between an instanced dungeon or public dungeon in an otherwise open world MMO mean to you?
Have you ever played a game with a public dungeon?
It's very "alive". While instanced dungeons are about you/your party, a public dungeon is about "place" and community.
Depending upon the game, a public dungeon can be a source for enemy players to try to attack you/take away your area.
You can sometimes find immediate groups and even trade in public dungeons.
I
remember areas in cruma tower (Lineage 2) where players hung out,
traded, made groups, conversed. It was very social. I also remember
having to fight our way up the Tower of Insolence to get at an enemy
clan/alliance that attacked our clan mates.
It was a lot of fun and definitely cemented in game friendships.
If a dungeon is meant to be deep dark mysterious and lost. An experience that does not include a modern mall-like atmosphere shouldn't he want it to seem so even on a busy server?
If the boss mob has to yell over the din of trades and friend invites, "Hey, can you people clear out? I'm trying to carry out my evil plans here!!" then it's not so much a dungeon, but a city market or square. Isn't that exactly where trades and group invites should occur, where it will enhance the immersion and not detract from it?
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
The boss spawn camping problem as well as kill stealing both have already been solved for open world situations in multiple games by using the simple system of giving everyone participating in the kill credit and loot. Some MMOs even go so far as upping or lowering the difficulty on the fly depending on how few or how many are fighting.
Beyond that EQN, at least on paper, discussed having mobs spawn and migrate trying to get away from predictable canned spawns which are still a problem.
Kill job quests are still the biggest issue directing a stream of players at the same spot to do the same thing to the same mob boss. But those are optional things no matter how ubiquitous they have become in current MMOs - better dynamically generated "job" systems that don't channel everyone down the same exact path would be an improvement on modern day MMO canned questing.
But you knew all this already didn't you?
participation trophy and loot for everyone for showing up!
That isn't perfect, no but locking the combat is even worse. MMOs need to become better on handling many players working together.
The hard thing is to award the people actually doing something, while you could award you the percentage of the loot based on the percentage of damage you make that only works if you only have DPS. GW2 have some mechanics here but they aren't perfect since I often get gold for DEs I didn't even knew I was doing.
People should not be awarded for just being around but for playing well, I think we agree about that. Just tagging a mob first can be made by everyone though and doesn't exactly award you for playing well either.
I think we need a really good formula for telling us how well you done in a multiplayer combat and award you after how you play.
Retro systems definitely have a niche place in the market but I don't see a return to the days of EQ and UO on a massive scale. Any more than I could predict a fleet of Model T's rolling out of Detroit in the middle of the 21st century. The people that are doing this may be 'indie' in the strict sense of the word, but I think a more apt descriptor would be 'inexperienced'.
I'm not talking about retro. I'm talking about solving the same problem without the instancing crutch. Camping timed spawns, kill stealing and all that shit were obviously problems and were replaced by instancing as the handy solution.
You're just thinking the problem had only one solution - I don't.
First , why one boss ? and why you need to camping ? Solution , have more "boss" in that area , no fixed "boss" spawn .
If you played a game called Priston tale (since 2001) they solve that problem pretty good . Though it isn't prefect solution , but still better than many game .
Most of item drop from mob , the boss have higher rate drop but it don't matter , no one camping them (unless you hunt them for quests)
Things was good , at lest after 2008 when they start to create special boss drop item
If a dungeon is meant to be deep dark mysterious and lost. An experience that does not include a modern mall-like atmosphere shouldn't he want it to seem so even on a busy server?
If the boss mob has to yell over the din of trades and friend invites, "Hey, can you people clear out? I'm trying to carry out my evil plans here!!" then it's not so much a dungeon, but a city market or square. Isn't that exactly where trades and group invites should occur, where it will enhance the immersion and not detract from it?
I realize that you're playing devil's advocate here, but really, isn't this the main difference between single player games and massively multi-player? If a player seek an "I'm the only one" experience, MMOs really are not for them, wouldn't you say?
What is being missed is the interaction between players that made the world "come alive", so to speak. We are not the only ones driving to work. We are not the only ones shopping. We are not the only where we work. What makes a "community" is how we all interact with each other. There can be no community with just NPCs as NPCs just do not care.
Open World Dungeons (OWD) had an element of player cooperation (or conflict) to them. It was not just a graphical area in the game. I don't think anyone who played MMOs with OWDs ever expected to be "the only one." Some strove to be the first one (or group), but not the only one. I smile when I think of how old EQ tried to handle some of this: Gate keys as drops. Look at how many player think EQ was full of time-sinks, when they may have just been trying to limit the number of players getting into a certain area.
What instances do (not only dungeons) is take a massively multi-player game and make it single player, or at best group only game. Why even bother logging in if that is what a player wants? Maybe a better game would be a single player game with multi-player (not massive) options? LAN parties used to be a huge thing.
The boss spawn camping problem as well as kill stealing both have already been solved for open world situations in multiple games by using the simple system of giving everyone participating in the kill credit and loot. Some MMOs even go so far as upping or lowering the difficulty on the fly depending on how few or how many are fighting.
Beyond that EQN, at least on paper, discussed having mobs spawn and migrate trying to get away from predictable canned spawns which are still a problem.
Kill job quests are still the biggest issue directing a stream of players at the same spot to do the same thing to the same mob boss. But those are optional things no matter how ubiquitous they have become in current MMOs - better dynamically generated "job" systems that don't channel everyone down the same exact path would be an improvement on modern day MMO canned questing.
But you knew all this already didn't you?
participation trophy and loot for everyone for showing up!
That isn't perfect, no but locking the combat is even worse. MMOs need to become better on handling many players working together.
The hard thing is to award the people actually doing something, while you could award you the percentage of the loot based on the percentage of damage you make that only works if you only have DPS. GW2 have some mechanics here but they aren't perfect since I often get gold for DEs I didn't even knew I was doing.
People should not be awarded for just being around but for playing well, I think we agree about that. Just tagging a mob first can be made by everyone though and doesn't exactly award you for playing well either.
I think we need a really good formula for telling us how well you done in a multiplayer combat and award you after how you play.
Ironically, the first MMO I played that did that, Warhammer Online, did it better in that respect than the games that came after it with similar ideas like GW2 and ESO. There was a much steeper hierarchy of reward tiers in WAR's public quest system.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What instances do (not only dungeons) is take a massively multi-player game and make it single player, or at best group only game. Why even bother logging in if that is what a player wants? Maybe a better game would be a single player game with multi-player (not massive) options? LAN parties used to be a huge thing.
Absolutely. That is the reason why there are so many single player games with MP options out there.
And many of them are now classified as MMOs because websites would love more traffic.
The boss spawn camping problem as well as kill stealing both have already been solved for open world situations in multiple games by using the simple system of giving everyone participating in the kill credit and loot. Some MMOs even go so far as upping or lowering the difficulty on the fly depending on how few or how many are fighting.
Beyond that EQN, at least on paper, discussed having mobs spawn and migrate trying to get away from predictable canned spawns which are still a problem.
Kill job quests are still the biggest issue directing a stream of players at the same spot to do the same thing to the same mob boss. But those are optional things no matter how ubiquitous they have become in current MMOs - better dynamically generated "job" systems that don't channel everyone down the same exact path would be an improvement on modern day MMO canned questing.
But you knew all this already didn't you?
participation trophy and loot for everyone for showing up!
That isn't perfect, no but locking the combat is even worse. MMOs need to become better on handling many players working together.
The hard thing is to award the people actually doing something, while you could award you the percentage of the loot based on the percentage of damage you make that only works if you only have DPS. GW2 have some mechanics here but they aren't perfect since I often get gold for DEs I didn't even knew I was doing.
People should not be awarded for just being around but for playing well, I think we agree about that. Just tagging a mob first can be made by everyone though and doesn't exactly award you for playing well either.
I think we need a really good formula for telling us how well you done in a multiplayer combat and award you after how you play.
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
not for many players, clearly. We are talking about entertainment here, not work. While there is a minority want to "work hard" for their entertainment, the majority does not.
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
Devs streamline it because thats what the players seem to want.
EQ had an expansion, Dragons of Norrath, that featured dozens of different missions you could do. It was soon figured out the the mission called 'The Creator' was the path of least resistance and considered the fastest/easiest mission by the general population. So every single DoN mission group ended up being Creator. instead of exploring new missions that might result in potential struggles, people just wanted the easy rewards.
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
I have heard people say that rewards are better after hard work, but personally I've never felt that. Difficulties tend to make me depressed, and when I'm depressed I have a more difficult time enjoying rewards. And a game where you have to work long and hard for anything is a game that feels like it's cheaping-out by having too few rewards and trying to stall and delay the player rather than letting them play.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I have heard people say that rewards are better after hard work, but personally I've never felt that.
It depends on the work.
Meaning (subjective to me) real-life work, yes. Make-work in a game, no (for me).
I've never experienced it with any kind of work. It's one of the reasons I've never been able to stick with big creative projects, like writing a novel or that sort of thing. I just get exhausted and burned out from the work and it doesn't feel rewarding even if I try to imagine finishing 'triumphantly'.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I have heard people say that rewards are better after hard work, but personally I've never felt that.
It depends on the work.
Meaning (subjective to me) real-life work, yes. Make-work in a game, no (for me).
I've never experienced it with any kind of work. It's one of the reasons I've never been able to stick with big creative projects, like writing a novel or that sort of thing. I just get exhausted and burned out from the work and it doesn't feel rewarding even if I try to imagine finishing 'triumphantly'.
Obviously this is personal. I have done projects that last over years, with good career enhancing results. Gaming is just a small distraction to recharge my batteries. There is no real reward for me in gaming.
BTW, you also need to learn to enjoy the moment to moment work (which i did). Otherwise, it is very hard to go through a long project. You cannot motivate yourself purely based on the anticipation of end result months or years down the road.
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
I have heard people say that rewards are better after hard work, but personally I've never felt that. Difficulties tend to make me depressed, and when I'm depressed I have a more difficult time enjoying rewards. And a game where you have to work long and hard for anything is a game that feels like it's cheaping-out by having too few rewards and trying to stall and delay the player rather than letting them play.
People are different, sure. I'm wishy washy on this, myself. I won't climb Everest for a sandwich, but I would for the spectacular view. Lately, since most video games have rid themselves of the chance of "failures" in their activities (RNGs), I feel I am getting lazier and lazier myself.
Comments
As opposed to that epic loot you get for soloing the boss that is exactly like that epic loot everyone gets one at a time? Lol.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
As far as liking crowds in MMOs.. Well, anyone that makes their living creating them would heartily agree with you there. :pleased:
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Very much agree. Made a lot of friends this way.
Camping rooms/spawn points was a lot more entertaining than grinding quests with no dialog, reward or really any point to them at all. At least with camping you had a chance of a boss to spawn that would drop a item you or a group member needed or wanted.
The rush you had of racing another group to a point and either outlasting them or flat out killing your way there faster. I never cared about people training because if you had a competent group you knew how to handle it. Don't get me wrong I like instances for story/quest purposes but give me a open dungeon any day over instance. The thing that I noticed in public dungeons is they weeded a lot of people out that did not play there class well, not saying it did that to everyone but in a public setting you knew who was good and who wasn't, you got to see them in action next to you or in your same group. Instanced keeps a lot of stuff private in that regards.
Not saying this is everyone in this thread or anything but ive noticed quite a few(again not all) that don't like open public dungeons usually were in the crowd that couldn't find a group cause they were not that good.
Also I would like to see a dungeon that starts of soloable then progressively gets harder and harder in a new game setting like they were in the old days just to see how it would populate, give the mobs real drops and real rewards for completing it, not this boring exp + gold + mediocre item.
It is not like MMOs are geared towards persistent worlds with public dungeons anymore. If so, you think i will be here?
If a dungeon is meant to be deep dark mysterious and lost. An experience that does not include a modern mall-like atmosphere shouldn't he want it to seem so even on a busy server?
If the boss mob has to yell over the din of trades and friend invites, "Hey, can you people clear out? I'm trying to carry out my evil plans here!!" then it's not so much a dungeon, but a city market or square. Isn't that exactly where trades and group invites should occur, where it will enhance the immersion and not detract from it?
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
The hard thing is to award the people actually doing something, while you could award you the percentage of the loot based on the percentage of damage you make that only works if you only have DPS. GW2 have some mechanics here but they aren't perfect since I often get gold for DEs I didn't even knew I was doing.
People should not be awarded for just being around but for playing well, I think we agree about that. Just tagging a mob first can be made by everyone though and doesn't exactly award you for playing well either.
I think we need a really good formula for telling us how well you done in a multiplayer combat and award you after how you play.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Solution , have more "boss" in that area , no fixed "boss" spawn .
If you played a game called Priston tale (since 2001) they solve that problem pretty good . Though it isn't prefect solution , but still better than many game .
Most of item drop from mob , the boss have higher rate drop but it don't matter , no one camping them (unless you hunt them for quests)
Things was good , at lest after 2008 when they start to create special boss drop item
What is being missed is the interaction between players that made the world "come alive", so to speak. We are not the only ones driving to work. We are not the only ones shopping. We are not the only where we work. What makes a "community" is how we all interact with each other. There can be no community with just NPCs as NPCs just do not care.
Open World Dungeons (OWD) had an element of player cooperation (or conflict) to them. It was not just a graphical area in the game. I don't think anyone who played MMOs with OWDs ever expected to be "the only one." Some strove to be the first one (or group), but not the only one. I smile when I think of how old EQ tried to handle some of this: Gate keys as drops. Look at how many player think EQ was full of time-sinks, when they may have just been trying to limit the number of players getting into a certain area.
What instances do (not only dungeons) is take a massively multi-player game and make it single player, or at best group only game. Why even bother logging in if that is what a player wants? Maybe a better game would be a single player game with multi-player (not massive) options? LAN parties used to be a huge thing.
VG
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
And many of them are now classified as MMOs because websites would love more traffic.
Better or just different? It doesn't have to be perfect, but why do so many "solutions" also tend to be path of least resistance/path of least effort/ez-mode solutions? Devs are streamlining too many things in game these days. There is nothing wrong is having to put effort into getting a reward. Getting that reward after hard work is fun. Right.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The design of modern games reflect that.
EQ had an expansion, Dragons of Norrath, that featured dozens of different missions you could do. It was soon figured out the the mission called 'The Creator' was the path of least resistance and considered the fastest/easiest mission by the general population. So every single DoN mission group ended up being Creator. instead of exploring new missions that might result in potential struggles, people just wanted the easy rewards.
Just like public dungeons. It is not like it has not been tried before. Players don't like them ... so they are now pretty much gone.
Meaning (subjective to me) real-life work, yes. Make-work in a game, no (for me).
BTW, you also need to learn to enjoy the moment to moment work (which i did). Otherwise, it is very hard to go through a long project. You cannot motivate yourself purely based on the anticipation of end result months or years down the road.
VG