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Do you feel like mmo's are less good than they used to be or that consumers are just bored of them?

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Comments

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,581
    Ok you create a poll with some pretty weak choices. Your choices are either today's mmorpgs are GREAT or they are failing.  How about mmorpgs are better then they were 15 years ago but they aren't great.
    This.

    They're a lot more fun and challenging now, but still no where near perfect.

    image
  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    edited December 2015
    If Black Desert, Guild Wars 2, ESO or any recent MMORPGs launched in 2002, we would probably all say that it's the best games that were ever made.

    The big issue imo is that we're trying to get back that feeling we had playing UO / DAoC / SB, etc. back in the days. But that was 15 years ago... We tried lot of games, some of them with relatively similar design and mechanics for character progression, universe architecture, controls, territory conquest, rewards...

    Current AAA titles are good and the number of players prove this. It's just that MMORPG veterans are getting bored of playing the same game we had in 2002 but with an updated setting / engine / graphics.

    Hopefully CF and CU will bring a new type of experience that triggers those feelings of wonder and delight I had while playing MMO 10 years ago. And if not, fingers crossed that a new company will soon try to reach this goal. =)
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    edited December 2015
    It is hard to accept some things when pointed out because they hit so close to home. The first reaction is anger and I was not the first to display it. Read into that what you will.
    Wait, you didn't just make a "NO! YOU!" post?
    Hell, yeah, you actually did...

    O.o

    I added to the discussion.

    He just made personal attacks.

    Sorry you can't tell the difference.
    I've added to the discussion. I pointed out how horrible this screwed poll is and how claiming the results of this screwed poll represent the actually opinion of 99.99% of the million and millions playing and enjoying mmorpgs today is ridiculous.  

    I also added to the discussion how this site tends to learn towards the doom and gloom because people like YOU think you are the only ones who knows what EVERYONE else should enjoy. 
    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Amana on
  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972
    "Doom and gloom", "snowflakes", what's next, "rose tinted glasses"? Fuck man, aren't you clever and original. 

    And you're also one of a handful of people on these forums that actually defends Narius. Have you read more than a few of his posts or even dipped your toes in his post history? I double dare to take that trip. LMAO!

    Nice start to the New Year.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    The reason MMOs seem to have gone down hill is due to the publishers and game developers under them being stuck in a miasma of complacency.  No publisher wants to go to their shareholders with an MMO idea that doesn't have mass market appeal due to the costs of running a server farm good enough to host all the data and other requirements to run it.  That means the developers get stuck in a very limited design space for what they can actually produce as far as an MMO goes when working under said publishers.  Basically, we got MOBAs, FPS, and tab target action MMORPG.  That's it.  No traditional crafting or game mastering that actually takes effort on the players part to learn, because that just turns the mass appeal down too much for publishers liking.  Oh, and we need PvP because some guy is going to say we need to have E-sports viability for the korean market and the possible blooming US E-sports market.  

    Fun times we live in, ain't it.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
     

    I'm just stating the facts sorry you don't like them.  
    We are all expressing OPINIONS, stop getting all bent out of shape.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,075
     

    I'm just stating the facts sorry you don't like them.  
    We are all expressing OPINIONS, stop getting all bent out of shape.
    Well, devil's advocate here, but it's quite a fact and not just opinion that today's MMORPGs are way more popular (aka have way more people enjoy themself playing) than the old school games.

    Some people will enjoy a 1960s Ford Mustang, with all the problems, tedium, unreliability and cost that come with it, but the vast majority prefers a modern car (including the modern version of the Mustang) which are way more reliable, comfortable, safe and also use way less gasoline.

    Fact. Not opinion. Can be easily verified.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
     

    I'm just stating the facts sorry you don't like them.  
    We are all expressing OPINIONS, stop getting all bent out of shape.
    True but I'm also stating some facts you don't like.  For example

    1) this poll is horrible.  It's either MMORPGS are great or they are fail.  

    2) This site tends to lean towards doom and gloom towards today's mmorpgs (I believe there are three threads right now on this very topic on the first page)

    3) Your original post fit your name perfectly

    4) I'm not bent out of shape you are 

    5) This site doesn't represent the other 99.99% of mmorpg players that are playing.  it's a tiny fringe group like I said before that lean towards not liking the way the genre has gone and are upset they got left behind.  

    Inbetween all of that I put in my opinion also. 

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,759
    Wizardry said:
    I don't really consider them not as good,there are some improvements.The problem i have is that nobody is giving us a COMPLETE game,sure they improve one area but dumb down another or completely leave out another expected idea.

    I just want someone to give me the whole package and without getting Jason Statham to deliver it :P
    Are you prepared to accept a decade-long delivery time frame and a higher price tag, for a fully-complete fresh out of the box experience (equal to the 10-year "aged" AAA mmo titles)?

    Or do you want Everything, at a basic price, and fast fast fast?
    I have said it before if a game can deliver a complete game ,i will pay a higher sub fee than 15 ,maybe 25 bucks a month.They can hire a lot more employees if they got 10 bucks more a player on top of the box sale price which btw is no longer a box price most game sales are digital costing them a LOT less.
    Also technology is better faster than old days and it took them 7 years max in the old days.As well some studios are using 300 employees where in old days they maybe had from 50-150.

    If your game  was really good and even only had 2 million players,at 10 bucks more that is 20 million a month on top of the 15x2mil which is another 30 million,if you can't work with that,you shouldn't be making games.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • GrumiumGrumium Member UncommonPosts: 57
    There is no game now that was like Ultima Online. It is a shame that they changed it to be more like the newer games. Every mmo afterwards has been boring for me. 

    The crafting was great. It was always in demand. Getting to mark your characters name on items that you made was great.

    Housing was great. What other games can you place a house and decorate it like UO could?

    Character customization was great for original character looks. Dye tubs were awesome.

    Character vendors in houses to sell stuff was awesome. You could spend hours just going around seeing what other people had for sale on their vendors.

    The reputation on your characters was great. It was funny having a lord or lady character.

    Fast travel with recall ruins was nice also. It allowed you to fast travel all over the world.

    Skill based and not character classes was great.  There were no places level dependent. If you wanted to see how good your character was you went out and fought something.  If you started getting your rear end handed to you then you ran. Having that free feeling with no hand holding was great. Not having to check if something was some type of color was great.

    Not knowing how much hp's or what type of character someone made up was great. I remember my friends house was getting looted by 2 people. He asked for help on icq so 7 of us showed up. None of us could fight ourselves out of a wet paper bag, we all had sucky characters or had crafting characters. The 2 people looting the house did not know it.  They stopped and my friend told us not to attack and bluffed them. He told the main guy looting the house that he would duel him and if he won he could have the house and everything in it.  I seen one of the most awesome duels I have ever witnessed in any game. The guy that was looting his house ended up leaving because he ran out of reagents. his friend followed promptly.

    The orc masks were great. I remember playing on Chessy and there was a guild that dressed up as orcs and tried to pk people with just basic items. That is the closest I have seen to any mmo letting you try to play creatures in the world.

    For all the people that complained about getting pked there was recall. It did not always work, but it helped a lot. I never pked people, but it was always fun being in a dungeon with a group of friends and either running from a few of them, or just trying to fight one. There were quite a few times when we won and a few times when I got pked. Items were easy to replace so it was no big deal. That is what made the game fun in my opinion. Every other game has fallen flat for me. The excitement is not there.

    The flagging system was great. The games out now just want to have pvp with no consequences. Stat loss on red pk characters helped fewer people be pk's. Also having pk's in the game promoted grouping or going out with friends. Games now are usually just a solo quest.

    All this put together makes it the most memorable game I have ever played. I still can remember stuff about UO and I can hardly remember about any other mmo that I have played.

    The first time I went to a dungeon with a friend I was worried my character was going to die. There were a lot of people there. A guy with a Katana with no armor and asked if we seen a guy there( I will call him Bill). Everyone said no. He told us that he had been blue pked by Bill earlier.  I kind of felt bad for him. Kat guy told us he was waiting for Bill to get even. Everyone said ok we would let him know if we seen him. Not more then 2 min after Kat guy told us about it Bill showed up. He recalled in right by Kat guy. Kat guy ended up flagging grey and trapping bill into a table and pked him. Kat guy told us all thanks for not attacking him since he was grey. I was shocked. It was the first time in a dungeon and this happened. I was hooked after that.

    I remember the first time I made a Katana with my character marking on it. I thought it was awesome. Also, standing around at Brit repairing people's weapons and armor for tips was great.

    I remember the player run events, and counselors that helped people when something happened in the game.  The first night I played I was lost so I called for help. A counselor came and talked to me. He helped me with suggestions and showed me around a little. I have never had that happen in any other mmo that I have played.  He asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to make weapons and armor. He then showed me how to craft, and got me started by telling me what to do.

    Most MMO's now do not even have half the stuff that UO had or has now. I have not played since a little after 2000.  I  played on a free shard for a while about 3 years ago and it was great, but it shut down. I keep waiting for another MMO to come close, but nothing has.  I have not played on another free shard since then, but I have been thinking seriously about it. If no MMO comes out soon then I may go back to one. I just do not like all the Macro's that they have in the game now. It does not have the same feel as it used to because of it.










  • BigRamboBigRambo Member UncommonPosts: 191
    MMOs need to stop being SoloPwnMobile games, once they hop that tiny hurtle, we'll start having great MMOs again.    Plain and simple.     Oh, and P2P please.  With no Cash shops.    If I want to Solo, I'll play Shovel Knight.  When I play a MMO, it's to play online and having fun with others. 
  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Wizardry said:
    Wizardry said:
    I don't really consider them not as good,there are some improvements.The problem i have is that nobody is giving us a COMPLETE game,sure they improve one area but dumb down another or completely leave out another expected idea.

    I just want someone to give me the whole package and without getting Jason Statham to deliver it :P
    Are you prepared to accept a decade-long delivery time frame and a higher price tag, for a fully-complete fresh out of the box experience (equal to the 10-year "aged" AAA mmo titles)?

    Or do you want Everything, at a basic price, and fast fast fast?
    I have said it before if a game can deliver a complete game ,i will pay a higher sub fee than 15 ,maybe 25 bucks a month.They can hire a lot more employees if they got 10 bucks more a player on top of the box sale price which btw is no longer a box price most game sales are digital costing them a LOT less.
    Also technology is better faster than old days and it took them 7 years max in the old days.As well some studios are using 300 employees where in old days they maybe had from 50-150.

    If your game  was really good and even only had 2 million players,at 10 bucks more that is 20 million a month on top of the 15x2mil which is another 30 million,if you can't work with that,you shouldn't be making games.


    Blizzard is proof that having an endless bucket of money doesn't mean *more* for the consumer.

    Also, you forget the most important element of any product design... planned obsolescence.  No product is designed to last forever.  If anything, newer games are sticking closer to the philosophy of product design than ever before.  You are getting less for your money because it encourages you to spend more money to get more.  If they gave you a *complete* game, you wouldn't ever buy another.  All those people involved with creating said game, who aren't the same people necessary to maintain said game, would be out of work forever.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,773
     

    I'm just stating the facts sorry you don't like them.  
    We are all expressing OPINIONS, stop getting all bent out of shape.
    Glad you said that. I trust you will remain civil when you hear opinions that you do not agree with, such as "modern MMOs are much better because they are better games than virtual worlds".
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,773

    Pepeq said:



    Blizzard is proof that having an endless bucket of money doesn't mean *more* for the consumer.



    Of course it does.

    As opposed to only a polished mmorpg, now we have a polished ARPG, MOBA, CCG, RTS, and soon a shooter. 

    Blizz is great for consumers, just not those who only play mmorpgs. 
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,075
    Pepeq said:
    Blizzard is proof that having an endless bucket of money doesn't mean *more* for the consumer.
    All those failed indie games, along with all the people who got reaped of their money for crappy crowndfunding projects, are proof that having no money means you'll only make a crappy game nobody wants to play...
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Grumium said:
    There is no game now that was like Ultima Online. It is a shame that they changed it to be more like the newer games. Every mmo afterwards has been boring for me. 

    The crafting was great. It was always in demand. Getting to mark your characters name on items that you made was great.

    Housing was great. What other games can you place a house and decorate it like UO could?

    Character customization was great for original character looks. Dye tubs were awesome.

    Character vendors in houses to sell stuff was awesome. You could spend hours just going around seeing what other people had for sale on their vendors.

    The reputation on your characters was great. It was funny having a lord or lady character.

    Fast travel with recall ruins was nice also. It allowed you to fast travel all over the world.

    Skill based and not character classes was great.  There were no places level dependent. If you wanted to see how good your character was you went out and fought something.  If you started getting your rear end handed to you then you ran. Having that free feeling with no hand holding was great. Not having to check if something was some type of color was great.

    Not knowing how much hp's or what type of character someone made up was great. I remember my friends house was getting looted by 2 people. He asked for help on icq so 7 of us showed up. None of us could fight ourselves out of a wet paper bag, we all had sucky characters or had crafting characters. The 2 people looting the house did not know it.  They stopped and my friend told us not to attack and bluffed them. He told the main guy looting the house that he would duel him and if he won he could have the house and everything in it.  I seen one of the most awesome duels I have ever witnessed in any game. The guy that was looting his house ended up leaving because he ran out of reagents. his friend followed promptly.

    The orc masks were great. I remember playing on Chessy and there was a guild that dressed up as orcs and tried to pk people with just basic items. That is the closest I have seen to any mmo letting you try to play creatures in the world.

    For all the people that complained about getting pked there was recall. It did not always work, but it helped a lot. I never pked people, but it was always fun being in a dungeon with a group of friends and either running from a few of them, or just trying to fight one. There were quite a few times when we won and a few times when I got pked. Items were easy to replace so it was no big deal. That is what made the game fun in my opinion. Every other game has fallen flat for me. The excitement is not there.

    The flagging system was great. The games out now just want to have pvp with no consequences. Stat loss on red pk characters helped fewer people be pk's. Also having pk's in the game promoted grouping or going out with friends. Games now are usually just a solo quest.

    All this put together makes it the most memorable game I have ever played. I still can remember stuff about UO and I can hardly remember about any other mmo that I have played.

    The first time I went to a dungeon with a friend I was worried my character was going to die. There were a lot of people there. A guy with a Katana with no armor and asked if we seen a guy there( I will call him Bill). Everyone said no. He told us that he had been blue pked by Bill earlier.  I kind of felt bad for him. Kat guy told us he was waiting for Bill to get even. Everyone said ok we would let him know if we seen him. Not more then 2 min after Kat guy told us about it Bill showed up. He recalled in right by Kat guy. Kat guy ended up flagging grey and trapping bill into a table and pked him. Kat guy told us all thanks for not attacking him since he was grey. I was shocked. It was the first time in a dungeon and this happened. I was hooked after that.

    I remember the first time I made a Katana with my character marking on it. I thought it was awesome. Also, standing around at Brit repairing people's weapons and armor for tips was great.

    I remember the player run events, and counselors that helped people when something happened in the game.  The first night I played I was lost so I called for help. A counselor came and talked to me. He helped me with suggestions and showed me around a little. I have never had that happen in any other mmo that I have played.  He asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to make weapons and armor. He then showed me how to craft, and got me started by telling me what to do.

    Most MMO's now do not even have half the stuff that UO had or has now. I have not played since a little after 2000.  I  played on a free shard for a while about 3 years ago and it was great, but it shut down. I keep waiting for another MMO to come close, but nothing has.  I have not played on another free shard since then, but I have been thinking seriously about it. If no MMO comes out soon then I may go back to one. I just do not like all the Macro's that they have in the game now. It does not have the same feel as it used to because of it.










    https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/mission_statement

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    While there are innumerous ways in which people are able to enjoy, or not enjoy, something like an MMO, the mechanics and "structure" of gameplay has kept overall to the same tenants. I think that is why there is such disagreement about the "state of current MMOs" all the time, because there is really two aspects to the conversation: What a title actually "is" vs. the ability, for various reasons, for someone to get enjoyment out of it.
  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    Aelious said:
    While there are innumerous ways in which people are able to enjoy, or not enjoy, something like an MMO, the mechanics and "structure" of gameplay has kept overall to the same tenants. I think that is why there is such disagreement about the "state of current MMOs" all the time, because there is really two aspects to the conversation: What a title actually "is" vs. the ability, for various reasons, for someone to get enjoyment out of it.
    The issue is less that as much as it is people getting tired of being stuck with shelves of MMO titles that all compete for the same space.  It's basically the supermarket effect of going down an aisle and seeing several different brands of pumpkin pie.  There's a place for very merry eggnog ice cream, coffee flavored cheese cake with dark chocolate icing, pecan pie, etc, but those are being ignored in favor of the "big market" of pumpkin pie.  My previous post goes over a few more details on the subject, of why this is happening, but that is the gist of things.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,998
    Howzr said:
    Old school MMOs seemed to have more variety. These days every game plays the same way. Grind generic quests to max level, sprinkle in some group finder dungeons along the way, then transition to end game instanced raiding and pvp. The gameplay is so focused on those narrow ludic functions that players are divorced from the IP and the game world and the "massively multiplayer" aspect. I suspect most of these games don't really need to be an MMO anymore, and probably would have provided players with a better experience had they been developed as single player RPGs or multiplayer dungeon crawlers. 

    Yes, perfect.  Its like if you're building a motorcycle and keep adding more and more car like features to appeal to the car crowd.  At a certain point isn't it easier to just build a car and give it a good experience.  Now you you have a 4 door closed in "motorcycle" that's cumbersome.  Now motorcycle guys  don't want it and car people only tolerate it if its free.  Doesn't sound like a good recipes for success.  
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited December 2015
     Colt47 said:
    Aelious said:
    While there are innumerous ways in which people are able to enjoy, or not enjoy, something like an MMO, the mechanics and "structure" of gameplay has kept overall to the same tenants. I think that is why there is such disagreement about the "state of current MMOs" all the time, because there is really two aspects to the conversation: What a title actually "is" vs. the ability, for various reasons, for someone to get enjoyment out of it.
    The issue is less that as much as it is people getting tired of being stuck with shelves of MMO titles that all compete for the same space.  It's basically the supermarket effect of going down an aisle and seeing several different brands of pumpkin pie.  There's a place for very merry eggnog ice cream, coffee flavored cheese cake with dark chocolate icing, pecan pie, etc, but those are being ignored in favor of the "big market" of pumpkin pie.  My previous post goes over a few more details on the subject, of why this is happening, but that is the gist of things.


    We may be talking about two separate things. I looked at your previous post and I'm sure it applies to some cases, as we can't know the closed door happenings of every pre-development MMO meeting. My argument above is more in reference to how we as players react, and the argument in this very thread.


    To use your analogy if I may, pumpkin pie is the bulk of what companies are making but there are variations. Pumpkin pie with nuts, cinnamon, whip cream, or any variations of flavoring though the base is the same. Some people don't mind pumpkin pie even if they would prefer coffee flavored cheesecake with dark chocolate icing (* see below) and even further still may prefer, or tolerate, the other variations of pumpkin pie being made.


    I'm not personally impressed with any MMO out right now and from a fundamental standpoint because 90% of the content is brain dead easy. Solo, group, doesn't matter there should be some "reward" for beating it, whether that be the act itself or gear. These conversations get muddled though because the willingness to play them may differ from person to person.


    * You seriously had to say that phrase? Talk about the best substance ever to be known by human kind! O.o

  • NhueNhue Member UncommonPosts: 29
    edited December 2015
    Without player driven content or real time developer GM's turning it into a living world that is constantly changing I don't see how any mmo can turn out to be anything more than end game mini games until new content is developed months down the road.

    IMO the market is flooded with games that are good enough but none so much better than any others that I devote my full attention to.  I literally am playing 5 mmo's full time.  I feel like a cheap whore lol.

    Not sure the future will change that nor am i sure it's even possible.

    I will play B&S till I have a few max level toons and have done everything then it will prob just become a fighting game which is fine TBH.

    I have high hopes for BDO and will deff devote a month or more solely to that but weather it can keep my attention past that full time is up in the air.

    Many players seem to have very unrealistic opinions or strange biased ones that give a pass to single player games  even calling them "great" while an mmo with exactly the same elements is only "so so" even though that single player game cost you $60 for maybe 100 hours of content while the mmo gave you 100+ hours for free.

    If there is one thing i wish mmo writers stopped doing it's creating stories where we are the solo savior protagonist during leveling only to be confronted with 1000's of other solo saviors of the world.

    for fuck sake write a compelling story that doesn't emphasize anyone's uniqueness...  I know it can be done.
  • JohnxboyJohnxboy Member UncommonPosts: 104
    No game has outdone WoW's questing experience so yeah people just get used to bad.
  • CyraelCyrael Member UncommonPosts: 239
    MMORPGs are great right now. There's a bit of market oversaturation, and a bit of an over-representation of certain formats, but there are a plethora of really fantastic games available right now.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,799
    When I look at this poll and I see "MMO's Are Growing Old And Stale Because They All Basicly Play The Same." as a choice, I think to other genres. Do people still say this about Mario Bros.? What if I said "Platform Jumpers Are Growing Old And Stale Because They All Basicly Play The Same."? Or "FPS Are Growing Old And Stale Because They All Basicly Play The Same."

    Yes, we've gotten too many crappy designs over the years, but there have been diamonds in the rough too. And this is what they are. So I have to ask.......If MMO's Are Growing Old And Stale Because They All Basicly Play The Same, then do you really like them at all?
  • MalathoosMalathoos Member UncommonPosts: 153
    LOL crappy choices. MMO's just arnt made as well as they were. All the choices have been taken out of them. Worlds are on rail roads and skills are too limited. Dont get me wrong some games of tons of skills TSW/PoE, but they have nothing that makes the world a home and both of those games expect you to do content over and over again.

    I would expect mmo's to have advanced from eq/dnd/marrowind with tons of character builds and choices instead it seems like they advanced from mortal combat/streetfighter just cookie cutter choices


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