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Open letter to World's MMORPG Game Designers - The future of MMORPG Industry

Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396


Many titles compete for the throne of the most populated/profitable mmorpg at this time, and some are doing better than the others.
GW2, Wildstar, FF, ESO, Tera and many others are pushing the limits.

All of those are fun on its own way, but its notable that there is no generalised mmo, players have their own preferences and therefore choose what they can connect to, becouse mostly, they must choose, since one mmo complements other one in almost all cases.

I myself was searching for sheer balance.Ever felt oppressed by higher lvl or p2w players in pvp, and no matter your skill ,you couldnt make an impact?
Yes i enjoy pve and raiding, but thats not all i want to do in one game, would be dull for me to not try pvp or exploring and many other aspects which one game can potentially offer like housing, secrets, underwater or floating cities, puzzes, climbing, gliding, flying, building, crafting, racing, area&world events, and maybe a hundred more options that are viable virtually.

Give players an option and they will use the hell out of it untill they get bored and want more options, give them freedom and you get limitless replay value.

>Example:
For me it is not hard to imagine the thrill of being connected with other players in mmorpg's outside of raiding.I once cought myself enjoying the time on a ship while moving expensive trade goods and chatting with friends about strategy and we will do next, while i had area of effect invisibility spell cloaking entire guild so it seemed like the ship was empty on the outside. We than ,each of us earned gold and accomplishment of sneaking past great amount of enemies and afterwards when the goods were safe went back to deal with those enemies in pvp. When we secured the area, we got back to our mainland, crafting ,farming ,housing ,building, and enjoying the beautifull sceenery, or simply doing numerous dailies.
Meanwhile other people were doing dungeons and raids on our continent, and that wasnt even enough for them, they went to the enemy continent to do their dungeons as well, solely becouse it was possible and fun.(it was infamous Archeage, and i quit becouse the publisher got too greedy and forced cash shop p2w pvp gear model.)
Thats Sandbox for you, never underrate sandbox. Its a concept above themepark and opens possibilities you yourself never knew existed.

On the end of the day, its hard to balance out sence of accomplishment and balance for every player type, since if one player gets much stronger than the other, balance is lost, but if you make it equalised, accomplishment is lost.

This in my view can only be archieved with much effort and overthinking becouse it involves many factors.
If you want to sell a universal vehicle to entire online gaming community, better make it one hell of a customisable piece, since people are entirely different in their desires, and if you fail to predict it, you fail as a creator.

And whatever you create, it must not be a lie.
Artificially extending gameplay value by making enchantment or crafting near-impossible, to create a sink for time and funds, is one of the ways how one can fail(Tera) , and there are many dozens.

I have seen titans rise and fall, played them at peak, quit on crumble, and i am yet to see one game ,which in its genre, sci-fi, fantasy, or other, would fully unleash the potential of virtual fun and a way of life that could last and evolve for at least a decade.

Thank you for reading


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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,647
    You are talking to a wall.
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    DMKano said:
    You are talking to a wall.
    I just posted this here, becouse it is a known issue, and can easily copy the link whenever i feel replying about the similar theme. It is maybe foolish to be as dedicated gamer as me and dream so much, but one must have dreams.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    I don't think there is much future to the classical style mmorpgs. Many devs have moved onto other types of MMOS, online games, zombie survival games.
  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 881
    Bet I know what game this dude just got finished playing :)

    Ok man, here's the thing.  You would get bored either way.  If they balanced it out so that you didn't have to get pounded on by a bigger guy you would get bored, trust me, I know, because you would never get the chance to feel like a real winner.  If they didn't make it pay to win you would get mad because you would never be able to catch up to your friend that started playing a year before you.  There is no way to make it pay to win without the guy with the most money winning, and so the things that you want are diametrically opposed to one another.  There is no way to offer freedom at the same time as balance.  Freedom is not balanced.

    So you figure out how to put just those few puzzle pieces together in a fashion that makes just you happy, and then maybe they will be able to put them together in a fashion that makes everyone happy.

    image
  • EldrachEldrach Member UncommonPosts: 126
    edited December 2015
    I'm not sure what you're describing is universally wanted by anyone. Give a player too many options and they'll quit because of the learning curve. What i'd want to see in a new mmo is a true dynamic world. Say the gameplay changes with the seasons..Different enemies, quests etc during winter season (and of course, the world geography would reflect your current season and give it's own challenges). Not only seasons, but say huge dynamic invasions and wars..Where a faction could conquer lands from the other factions for extended periods of time (not only "dedicated rvr areas"), but entire regions..Stuff like that
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    jesad said:
    Bet I know what game this dude just got finished playing :)

    Ok man, here's the thing.  You would get bored either way.  If they balanced it out so that you didn't have to get pounded on by a bigger guy you would get bored, trust me, I know, because you would never get the chance to feel like a real winner.  If they didn't make it pay to win you would get mad because you would never be able to catch up to your friend that started playing a year before you.  There is no way to make it pay to win without the guy with the most money winning, and so the things that you want are diametrically opposed to one another.  There is no way to offer freedom at the same time as balance.  Freedom is not balanced.

    So you figure out how to put just those few puzzle pieces together in a fashion that makes just you happy, and then maybe they will be able to put them together in a fashion that makes everyone happy.

    I don't agree. PvP demands a low powergap. The higher the powergap the less popular and fun will open world PvP be.

    That is the reason most MMOs instance the PvP nowadays to battlegrounds and arenas.

    You certainly need some kind of progression but what you are describing have been done many times and it have always failed (meaning that 90% or so of the population will usually prefer PvE). SWG, DaoC and Eve are the only exception I can think off, otherwise any game with a moderate population will have very few PvP players.

    PvP games with little or no progression (FPS games, GW1, RTS games) always been far more successful to get plenty of PvP fans. And anything with PvP and P2win always fail miserably.

    Find the right powerbalance (I think it is when a great playing noob barely can beat a lousy playing vet), thgere is where your PvP golden spot is.
  • PalaPala Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Well, horizontal progression like EvEs is the way to go. The guy that has been playing longer has more ships to chose from for different roles but in any one role a relative noob can be just as good. No p2w or massive power gaps required. EvE and Anarchy Online answered so many questions posed on this forum over a decade ago. 

    But nobody is smart enough to learn those lessons, it seems.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    why care about balance when you can just pick up a different game for PvE or PvP?


  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    jesad said:
    Bet I know what game this dude just got finished playing :)

    Ok man, here's the thing.  You would get bored either way.  If they balanced it out so that you didn't have to get pounded on by a bigger guy you would get bored, trust me, I know, because you would never get the chance to feel like a real winner.  If they didn't make it pay to win you would get mad because you would never be able to catch up to your friend that started playing a year before you.  There is no way to make it pay to win without the guy with the most money winning, and so the things that you want are diametrically opposed to one another.  There is no way to offer freedom at the same time as balance.  Freedom is not balanced.

    So you figure out how to put just those few puzzle pieces together in a fashion that makes just you happy, and then maybe they will be able to put them together in a fashion that makes everyone happy.

    They did an incredible job with the GW 2 balancing, if only most mmos would be like League of Legends, Guild Wars 2 ,Path of Exile, damn, the world would be a beautifull place, surely :)
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    why care about balance when you can just pick up a different game for PvE or PvP?


    Thats a valid point.Never thought of it, though i like to emerge in a game fully ,and only one game once i play it.Many feel this way.
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,397
    I love when someone starts thread with "Open letter".   They are just too important to be ignored.
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    flizzer said:
    I love when someone starts thread with "Open letter".   They are just too important to be ignored.
    You tell them ,you :proud: 
  • nimander99nimander99 Member UncommonPosts: 288

    Well said, and I agree with the sandbox mmo being the best the genre has too offer. The cash grab has polluted and ruined our genre unfortunately and it will spread to the rest off the gaming industry as facebook games and mobile games continue to generate large amounts of money for little effort.


    We only have one power or vote, if you will, as gamers: Our wallets!

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    edited December 2015
    There are far too many things at play why we are where we are, but this is a natural cycle as war and peace except of course there has never been peace, but only those who are winning the war try to promote it as long as possible.

    Without great games people to focus their attention on they will be focusing more toward the real life "MMO". Just like in MMO's real life also offers loot and PvP. Humanity needs great games and without them...well you can see what's happening in those regions as well as through the history in the past.

    The size of the planet also remains same, but population has not. There are people almost on every inch on the planet today. This is exactly why humanity needs video games today more than ever. Without them we are doomed.
    Post edited by Kopogero on

    image

  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    Kopogero said:
    There are far too many things at play why we are where we are, but this is a natural cycle as war and peace, except of course there has never been peace, but only those who are winning the war try to promote it as long as possible.

    Without great games people to focus their attention on, they will be focusing more toward the real life "MMO". Just like in MMO's real life also offers loot and PvP. Humanity needs great games, without them...well you can see what's happening in those regions as well as through the history in the past.

    The size of the planet also remains same, but population has not. There are people almost on every inch on the planet today. This is exactly why humanity needs video games today more than ever. Without them, we are doomed.

    If an online game can make you more relaxed, content, on daily basis, but without the chains of high time consumption, which leads to social and health problems, than by all means choose wisely, and enjoy your free time while it lasts. Of course, most games nowadays are built to click you so that you never feel rewarding and keep playing and grinding, and raging :p ,which is a cause for concern, and maybe a point that you need a change.

    For the real life aspect, our WoW are the military industries in mostly US&EU that fuel constant conflicts only for profit sake, manipulating the people,promoting reasons, and endulging "justice".
    If there arent any villains ,by all means we must create them :p
    Divide&Conquer i say, after thousands of years, humanity is almost the same in that aspect.

    Cheers


  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 396
    Eldrach said:
    I'm not sure what you're describing is universally wanted by anyone. Give a player too many options and they'll quit because of the learning curve. What i'd want to see in a new mmo is a true dynamic world. Say the gameplay changes with the seasons..Different enemies, quests etc during winter season (and of course, the world geography would reflect your current season and give it's own challenges). Not only seasons, but say huge dynamic invasions and wars..Where a faction could conquer lands from the other factions for extended periods of time (not only "dedicated rvr areas"), but entire regions..Stuff like that
    Hell dude :dizzy:  you dont ask much at all, so many variables, i think they would end up needing to create another engine by the time they finish creating such an adaptive world, i seriously doubt those kinds of titles will come to exist in our lifespan xD
    Its well thought idea tho, and i bet many players would love that.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    cura said:
    why care about balance when you can just pick up a different game for PvE or PvP?


    Becouse neither of them will feel complete. In my case at least.
    Definitely in your case, but not mine. What is a "complete" game anyway? If you can pve, and pvp but don't have "holding territory" game mode, is it complete? I would much rather play fun gameplay in multiple games than mediocre gameplay because the game has to be forced to balance between too many different types of game modes.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771

    Well said, and I agree with the sandbox mmo being the best the genre has too offer. 

    "Best" is subjective.

    Personally i think it is "meh". I would much rather play a game with good game modes and content. 
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,050
    I played a few of the low budget mmorpg.  Have a lot of fun in them.  And just like the OP, cash shop is the reason I stopped playing.

    The reason I'm pointing out low budget is the problem with mmorpg is it need "a lot of players" to sustain it.  Unless the mmorpg itself is low budget.

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    A13xand37 said:
    flizzer said:
    I love when someone starts thread with "Open letter".   They are just too important to be ignored.
    You tell them ,you :proud: 
    I agree with fizzer

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    AAAMEOW said:
    I played a few of the low budget mmorpg.  Have a lot of fun in them.  And just like the OP, cash shop is the reason I stopped playing.

    The reason I'm pointing out low budget is the problem with mmorpg is it need "a lot of players" to sustain it.  Unless the mmorpg itself is low budget.

    nah ... you just need enough whales.


  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,146
    Kopogero said:
    There are far too many things at play why we are where we are, but this is a natural cycle as war and peace except of course there has never been peace, but only those who are winning the war try to promote it as long as possible.

    Without great games people to focus their attention on they will be focusing more toward the real life "MMO". Just like in MMO's real life also offers loot and PvP. Humanity needs great games and without them...well you can see what's happening in those regions as well as through the history in the past.

    The size of the planet also remains same, but population has not. There are people almost on every inch on the planet today. This is exactly why humanity needs video games today more than ever. Without them we are doomed.
    This post put a smile on my face, thank you for brightening my morning with a good laugh!


    Firstly, there isn't any established correlation between good game availablity and war. What a silly thing to say! You can't honestly think that if the taliban had access to a load of xbox's that they wouldn't have started murdering people? The only vaguely similar correlation is between investment in the arts and economic growth and stability. 


    Second, humanity doesn't cover nearly every inch of the planet. Only approximately 3% of land surface is classified as "urban" and it is in this 3% that 90%+ of humanity lives. Of the rest of the land surface of the planet, estimates put it between 20 and 40% use for human needs, i.e. farms. That leaves over 50% of the earths land unoccupied by humanity.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577

    Well said, and I agree with the sandbox mmo being the best the genre has too offer. The cash grab has polluted and ruined our genre unfortunately and it will spread to the rest off the gaming industry as facebook games and mobile games continue to generate large amounts of money for little effort.


    We only have one power or vote, if you will, as gamers: Our wallets!

    I'm yet to see a decent sandbox MMO.

    Just because it's sandbox that doesn't mean I don't want superb quests and story. It's the main thing really, and all sandbox games are doing a very poor job with it. As long as they think that players just want to be thrown into a world where they can do whatever the hell they want, sandbox games will remain a niche. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    edited December 2015
    A13xand37 said:
    I just posted this here, becouse it is a known issue, and can easily copy the link whenever i feel replying about the similar theme. It is maybe foolish to be as dedicated gamer as me and dream so much, but one must have dreams.
    Dreaming is one thing, but when you are making "known issues" of your dreaming, you are demonstrating "wall" comment above...
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Sorry man but many developers have realized that they make more money from 1 pay to win player then WOW makes from 100 subscribers in a year.  And it can all happen in only 1 week.  And they only have to provide servers to handle 1 player instead of 100.  Look at SC for example of how ridiculous it is.  People paying for a ship 2500$ and its not even out yet.  That is more money then 1 wow player spends in 13 years of gaming.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
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