Originally posted by Nerf09 You cannot change the environment, its static. YOu grind-mine and camp the gate, big whoop. Who cares what clan controls what instanced-server in Eve. Dont bother arguing with me, when you jump into a new system, you are changing servers.
Again, have you actually played EVE?
The environment is most definitely NOT static.You can build starbases (also referred to as player-owned-stations, or POS) around a moon. These starbases are basically a collection of structures inside a force field, and can serve a number of purposes, all different depending on which structures the owning corporation (guild) decides to put up.
You can erect ship hangar arrays to store modules and ships in.
You can erect ship maintenance arrays so you can refit your ships in space.
You can erect moon mining modules that allow you to harvest rare materials from the moon the POS is in orbit around.
You can erect storage silos to store minerals you've harvested or mined.
You can erect refining arrays to refine those minerals.
You can erect shipyards to build ships with - in fact, certain capital ships can ONLY be built at a POS.
And, in addition to all of these, you can erect all sorts of offensive and defensive modules to make your POS the next best thing to the Death Star, and woe to any hostile who warps in on it and doesnt' bring a fleet of dreadnoughts with him.
Another important facet of POS is that they can be used to claim sovereignty over a star system.
In addition to POS, there are also conquerable stations, which can be taken over by players. These are controlled in conjunction with POS - while there is a friendly POS up in the same system and officially claiming sovereignty of it, the conquerable station cannot be attacked. The POS (or POSes, if more than one, as there usually is) must be destroyed before the aggressor can attack the station. These stations are only found out in 0.0.
Finally, there are outposts. These are basically conquerable stations that are built by players where there was no station before. In order to build them, you must first have sovereignty over the system, then you have to bring in about 20 billion ISK worth of materials in a freighter. From there, the outpost is put together, and a temporary construction platform (known as an "egg" due to its appearance) is the result. Once the temporary construction platform is finished, if it survives through the next downtime (i.e. isn't attacked and destroyed by another group of players), it becomes an outpost when the servers finish coming back up.
for example, wow battlegrounds, the worst parts are the pve.
and battlegrounds itself is a crappy flacid system that takes all the fun out of combat.
it literally made me want to bore my eyes out with a scout knife.
one of the coolest things about cs was that many people like myself hadnt played rounds where if you died you were forced to wait until the next round... it hink this gave meaning to combat, stealth, etc etc..
i dunno. i just think the spawn system in wow bg ruined the game.
whatever carebear road games go down, just god let it not be like bg's.
and sadly they are, gw, sun, huxley and a ton of other new mmo's are planning on instancing everything.
whatthe fuck?
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Do those of us looking for PvP with death penalties belong to a smaller niche than PvE w/out death penalties? Yes, the numbers prove it. Is our smaller niche economincally viable? Yes, the numbers prove it and the undercurrent is getting stronger.
It is about choice. If you read into the original post and get behind the specifics, what he is saying is that those who seek the PvP with death penalties (be they full loot or PD to somewhere in-between), want more choices. Most companies haven't given us a choice or even had the stones to add the choice via HC (for lack of a better term) servers to the current crop of PvE/non-death penalty games.
This is, of course compounded by the mighty monstrous hampster wheel that is the gearcentric, level-treader that results in new players being a fraction of a percent as strong as someone who has played for a month. And yes, that type of desparity and time commitment will NOT work in a "death penalty" oriented game.
Enter concerns about total anarchy and killers and sickos playing out their power trips. If that generalization makes you feel better, ok. Some people like to play sports and enter contests where the end results in a winner and a loser. They like stakes. Others like adventure with real danger...it makes it an...um...adventure.
The current game in development that I am following will allow for settlement creation along with laws, boundaries and law-enforcement via PCs AND NPCs purchased through successful economies. It won't have level desparity, instaporting, instancing, unrealistic chat, etc. A group of closely knit individuals will have the ability to build up a town, defense it, equip it via crafters, and establish trade. Of course, you could just as easily spend resources creating a conquering force, but it wont be so easy as porting over to the settlement 30 miles away and crashing a party. You'll have have to work to get their and you better have logistics planned out in advance. The same goes for killers within settlement boundaries. They will have to risk it and work for it. I hope it makes it and is a hit so that those wishing for PvP with consequences will have at least one more choice when it comes to gaming.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by BurningPain Lineage 2 - Very carebear - When you kill a player you can't loot them, you can only loot red players. - The items are so valuable if you die and lose them your character can no longer function, games are meant to be "played". - I've noticed people who play Lineage 2 have strong ties with ebay. - The fact you can't loot anythign from blue players is lame. - De-Leveling is not for me, I hate killing NPC's. Forcing a PVP'er to go back to PVE'ing is completely stupid.EVE Online - Great game if you have the patience. - Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait - log out wait - wait log out.. wait a long time.. wait.... ok pick a new skill.. wait oh learning skills. - ... wait........ time passes by ......... - Traveling times... I'm jumping again & again... wait wait... wait.. patience wait... - 6 months later finally able to do some decent PVPI'm playing EVE Online right now but i'm not really playing it, I'm just skilling up my guy so that one day in the future i can play. The missions suck, the mining sucks, the npc interaction sucks. I just want to kill players and skill up my guy with a nice ship. I hate the npc part of the game.
You can skill up all you want. But it's going to be funny when your first pvp experience is you dying to a 2 week old in a nooby frigate..
lol so true
it seems he doesnt understand the game at all... but wait: he isnt even playing hehe
and I really thought everyone finally got it that you can be an asset in PvP in 2 weeks time.... maybe he doesnt read the board, the corp channel OR the help channel... you dont have to be able to fly Tec 2 cruisers to do PvP, mate! those guys played too many EQ clones where the "endgame" really starts after you reach the maximum level.... too bad he doesnt get that in EVE NO ONE will ever reach the point in which he has trained all skills max.... that would be pointless anyway...
focus, specialize and train few but important skills! you can fly a cruiser in A FEW DAYS. you can get fregatte 4 even at character creation if you pay some attention to skills....
and if you dont play the game, you cannot get good in it... (or get money to buy the more expensive skills... or ships or whatever.... ) you will be a n00b with millions of skillpoints.... no use for anybody... the difference between the best ships/items and the nearly best in EVE is very small, but huge in skill requirements... your ACTUAL experience is much more valuable that to have some skill risen from 4 to 5 (max skill level for the non EVEs). 4 to 5 costs nearly 5 times more time than 1-4
anyway.... kind of pointless to tell him that, I guess
Problem is that there's no honor in PVP anymore. Very few are the guild vs. guild wars. Most of the "hardcore"'s idea of PvP is ganking, PKing, gate camping, etc.. Most of the MMOs out there have a duel system where it can be one-on-one, but yet, you whine that the "Age of the Carebear has dawned upon us"... Why? Because most of the PvPers only engage on their version of PVP when they either outnumber their victim or they have superiority. I remember the good old days of UO where there were true wars between guild against guild. But then it degraded into constant ganking by lamers who wondered around looking for someone to kill and loot. So they had to split it up between Trammel and Felucca.
Same is with every game today. I used to play SWG since it began, and I remember this particular guy who killed me while I was very new. I remember I told him that it was very lame of him, he being so strong while I was just a Weaponsmith looking for minerals wearing bone armor. He said: "An Imp is an Imp" and ran away laughing. So later I ran unto him on Bestine and I called a RL friend who was a Jedi (also Imp). My friend waived his glow stick around him and even challenged him to a duel. But I guess "An Imp is an Imp" didn't apply to Jedi because he just ran away.
Now I recently started playing EVE. I want to be a miner, but I've been running courier missions to get money. So one of those missions took me to low sec space, and sure enough, there was a gate-camper there. I'm flying a little frigate while he has an Apocalypse. Under those odds, it would seem like a waste of a missile to even kill me, let alone pod me. What the hell did he have to gain? None of my modules would do him any good on such mighty ship? But sure enough, he blew up my ship and podded me. And now I'm screwed because by the time I have a ship tough enough to kill him, my kill rights would've ran out.
So what I'm trying to say is that, the reason why the "Age of the Carebear has dawned on you" is because MOST (not all) of you PVPers are just bullies who won't get into a fight unless the balance is tipped on your favor. So I hope the Age of the Carebear is here to stay!
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
I was playing Conquest which is a FFA environment, and within the first 5 minutes I got killed twice.
I dont see the thrill of FFA when someone who is level 70, wearing high level armor and packing the Almighty Noob Killer sword crushes my level 1 guy who is trying to kill chickens with a pointy stick in the noob area.
PVP limited to certain areas gets a lot of complaints from people, but it at least gives the noobs a chance to get into a game a bit before getting killed.
Overall I like PVP and did a lot of faction fighting in SWG, but I go out of my way to not target someone who has no chance against me.
I do like pvp but online games were made for the purpose of gettin together with groups and adventuring so yeah its always been carebares wanna pvp? go play a damn fps there allll the pvp you will ever ever need.Just please quit the beatchin about carebares dont like the online game dont play them.
If you were in a frig how in gods name did an Apoc catch you? I fly an Apoc and the lock time on a frig is huge - even with sensor boosters.
Even if you lock a frig unless you are at sniping range a BS gun has a hard time hitting such a small target. If the Apoc was at close range you could actually orbit it at 4km and it couldn't even touch you unless it was specially fitted purely anti-frig with small med guns and small med drones.
The only way an Apoc would catch you at a gate is if you are dawdling and not taking enough care. Jumping in a frigate should align and warp before a BS even gets a lock on you and if you were approaching a gate from 15km - well you should have considered using an MWD which in a frig will again get you to the gate almost before the Apoc can locked and fire at you.
When I want to travel around I buy an Executioner frigate (one of the cheapest available) I stick an MWD (speed boost) and 2 Internal Nanofibres (extra speed & faster alignment for warp) and nothing has ever caught it - even going through 0.0 pirate camps in notorious systems such as HED-GP.
Now you also have to look at this from the perspective of this 'Apoc' bully. He is clearly out looking for some action... but he is also taking a huge risk of his own - his loot afterall is that much more attractive that yours.
Pirates get ganked all the time. While they will kill targets of opportunity that may wander by they are themselves a target of opportunity... so in a way they are putting way more on the line than your starter frigate....
You talk about PvP honour... well tell me how much PvP honour do you see in the real world? When 95 year old granny is mugged by a gang of 6 youths, or when a global superpower invades a developing country? If you wanted to kick the shit out of some guy who insulted your mother would you wait till he had 5 mates with him or get him when he is on his own? Do people in the real world seek out 'balanced' fights. No they don't. Everyone always wants a tactical advantage because everyone always wants to win.
EVE mirrors life.
Pirates will try and kill you anyway they can. Your only hope is to be badder and better than they are. If you are feeling picked on do what you would do in real life. Learn how to defend yourself and get some friends. The more friends the better - they are easy to make as everyone is after the same thing you are - mutual protection. EVE forces you to interact for your very survival... Want to play solo... fine then dont take any risks and dont compain about being ganked...
Take precautions, be clever and you can succeed in EVE... EVE is about risks vs rewards. If you want the rewards then you have to take the risks and those risks include gate camps...
Like I said, I'm pretty new at EVE so I didn't know that I could out-run it. I just wanted to get to the station where I was supposed to leave the goods.
Second of all, in real life, I'm 6 feet tall and I weigh 250 pounds. That doesn't give me the right to go around beating up people who are smaller than me. Just because I can doesn't mean I should.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by BurningPain Its a sad era of MMORPG's we are living in. Controversey & Drama between players is non-existant. MMORPG's now a days focus on comfortable, peaceful environments where everyone can be bed buddies. Good vs Evil? Not really, just a bunch of friends killing each other back & forth in an equal exchange of virtual points. It's very sad indeed. The following MMORPG's were non-carebear: - Ultima Online The Old Days (You know what i'm talking about) - Ultima Online Siege Perilous - Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - Meridian 59 - Older MUD's with FFA PVP environments The above MMORPG's were environments of free will. That is why they entertained me so much. Drama & controversey was the dominant factor, backed by strong player communities. In the above MMORPG's that I mentioned the friends you would make were real friends. Why? Because they didn't kill you. You don't know who your true friends are in a MMORPG until you hang out with them in an environment that allows free for all pvp, becuase if they haven't killed you yet they must be your friend. The above MMORPG's had penalties for PVP, you would drop items if you died in PVP. This would add a HUGE adrenaline rush to PVP combat knowing you would drop items when you die. Also players were able to communicate with each other without restriction. You could freely message your enemies in a verbal exchange of insults, I'm sorry but that is what men simply do. When I hang out with my friends we constantly insult each other in good fun while hitting each other in the arm. Carebear MMORPG's - World of Warcraft - Dark age of Camelot - Everquest - Everquest II - All the other MMORPG's trying to be like EQ & WOW It all started with Everquest. The first MMORPG that came out that protected you from the dangers of PVP. Everquest was the mother bird that nestled you under her wing and protected you against players like myself. If you die in PVP, don't even worry about it. Ain't no thing. Its all good. PVP turned into a lifeless, mindless version of pacman but with swords. Collect points & more points & more points. Not once can you interact with your enemy on a verbal scale and actually exchange words. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guys never talk to the bad guys? It is almost unheard of. The above carebears mmorpgs have barely any penalties for PVP, thus removing the element of any adrenaline rush. There are things to ponder my friends. We are in the carebear era of MMORPG's. I hope it will be over soon because all the carebear mmorpgs coming out end up being meaningless once you hit cap level. PVP & points just don't mix. FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards. The above rulesets give players the control. That is what it is all about, for us the players to be in control, not the NPC's or the devs. It is supposed to be "our game" not theirs. BurningPain Father LuzArius
Lets see, if you view the numbers of the games above I think you get an idea why "carebears" rule. As loud and overly self promoting as all PvPers are on forums like this one, you really can't all seem to get together pick one game and give it 400,000 subscribers and make it a sucess. Ultima was succesful back in the day but that was when you had 2 choices. Otherwise a lot of people just don't want their game time "ruined" by someone who is confused as to what exactly "our game" means.
In the future, DnL, Mourning (revamped), Darkfall and a ton of Korean imports are coming that will offer PvP. If you wish to see this perfect PvP game that every PvPer is clamoring for then go out and support one of them and make it successful. If you go to the EQII, EQI, SWG, Vanguard, WOW froums etc etc etc you will see people whining about PvP not being like the games above you mentioned. Thats because those games were made for someone else. For them to change would cause thousands of people to depart. You guys are barking up the wrong tree. Unify for a game that is being created specifically for you (not us carebears) and then give them money, tell them what is wrong, make that game great in your opinions. Most importantly remember that Carebears won't care about your game or want to hear about how it rules or whatever. It seems like in every article you guys want to namecall and insuniate how we ruined the gaming community, blah, blah, blah and then you wonder in total confusion how someone could not also want the game you all dream of?
I'd just like to say thanks to Duncan for saving me the time. I don't have to fill this full of my own stories about how the "hardcore" MMORPG players crying about FFA PvP are really just kids who are bullying the "carebears".
Whoever it was that said games mirror real life is a jackass. He said that because when he gets picked on in real life he jumps on some game and ganks low level players as his "defense". If games mirrored real life I wouldn't play 'em, I'd sit in my room crying because there's no freedom from my normal life. That's like the gamers who talk about how you should have to spend hours getting from one town to the next, you should spend thousands of hours grinding, and everything in game should be very expensive so you have to farm gold.
I personally think that EQ II has a great system now. I actually love the game. I hate having to say that because of all the insinuations that come with liking Everquest but I'll admit it. The PvP servers are fun. Even though it is full of the above-mentioned bullys you can easily pull together a raid at the gates of Qeynos or Freeport and take things into your own hands. And the penalty may seem stiff, half your cash, rez sickness, battered arrmor but you get lots in exchange for returning the favor. I lost and made 3 gold one night because of fighting other players and it was exhilirating. The best part, I chose to play on a PvP server.
I now play WoW with my friends at work because I can't convince 'em to play EQ II with me but I will go back one day. It gives the gankers their freedom with limits that allow the rest of us to enjoy the game. It boils down to bullies wanting all of us to have to play their game so they can beat up on us. Well, Sony may usually screw us all over but this time they're taking our side and saying no to the bullies. I'm sure they'll all cry online about how Sony is depriving us of our wants and needs, but to me it sounds like the bullies are taking Sony's place in telling us what we really want and should have.
Turns out you didn't save me that much time anyway, Duncan.
--- "FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards." ----
Heres some games for you.
1) Street fighter.
2) Call of Duty Multiplayer.
3) Quake (Whatever derivative they are up to these days).
4) Any of the Tom Clancy Online stuff.
Have fun with your total lack of COMPLEX teamwork, complete lack of explorative value, and merry-go-round game play.
Personally I play roleplaying games to roleplay out an interesting story. Endlessly smashing another player with a slower computer is not my idea of a good story telling effort. And games that use PvP as an EASY solution to end game content are simply, to simple for me.
I think you do not a have good understanding of PvP in the MMORPG world, that or you have never really played an MMORPG in your life. First off you say that Controversey and Drama between players is non-existant, and this is a blatanly false statement. If you believe that you need PvP to create Drama and Controversey you need to stick with any MMORPG until you reach the highest levels and experience that. You mentioned UO when you were pointing out this fact, and UO most of all lack any sense of drama. Because of its free form tactics and open-ended gameplay it was hard most times to really create a dramatic environment. Now if you look at your "carebear" MMORPGs, WoW, EQ, etc the drama that is built up by their "end-game" content makes anything that UO and AC could develop seem trivial. I have heard grown men break down and cry via Vent over issues of loot and other elements that result from PvE. Sure I have heard loud strings of curses and profanity that would make a sailor blush whenever a poor felow lost his Tower Deed to a "evil" PK but hearing someone cry? Very playing the game because of that? Hardly.
Next you point out about how you know who your real friends are because they do not kill you. Maybe your friends are just gigantic carebears. The first boat deed in UO I ever got was the result of me killing my best friend. I got my first tower deed by killing a guildmate. If you are able to form that deep of a bonding relationship with someone via the internet that you can trust them to cover you while you are transporting your Castle deed, maybe you two should date because I would not even trust my Mom in that regard.
I can agree with the lack of penalities, but how it creates a lack of adrenaline rush I disagree with. Playing DAoC, WoW, EQ2, I have gotten that twitch when some random person trying to gank me, and I had to fight for my life to fend them off. If you look at a game based only on what happens to you when you die and the penalities that may be incured you are missing most of the game play there. Sure you may die and not lose any items, but you did lose and that person who killed you may very well remember that and look at you as an easy target. Reputation. That is what you want, to strike fear into the hearts of many and it can be done in any of these carebear games. Whenever I would get jumped in UO I never cared about what items I may lose, mainly because it was super easy to get anything, I was more worried about what people may say. My guild was well known for being one of the best and to lose to some no name warrior and have that chance of our guild name being run through the mud? That was the higher priority.
Are we in an Era of Carebear MMORPGs? Definetly, but not for the reasons you described. The games are fine, the players are not. Many of these new MMORPGs are full of first time players and many have come over not for PvP but for a different experience. These games are what you make it, and you have not tried to make it anything besides a pretty UO which they are not. The hardcore PvP experience is still there, you are just missing it.
Originally posted by Bonzar I'd just like to say thanks to Duncan for saving me the time. I don't have to fill this full of my own stories about how the "hardcore" MMORPG players crying about FFA PvP are really just kids who are bullying the "carebears". Whoever it was that said games mirror real life is a jackass. He said that because when he gets picked on in real life he jumps on some game and ganks low level players as his "defense". If games mirrored real life I wouldn't play 'em, I'd sit in my room crying because there's no freedom from my normal life. That's like the gamers who talk about how you should have to spend hours getting from one town to the next, you should spend thousands of hours grinding, and everything in game should be very expensive so you have to farm gold. I personally think that EQ II has a great system now. I actually love the game. I hate having to say that because of all the insinuations that come with liking Everquest but I'll admit it. The PvP servers are fun. Even though it is full of the above-mentioned bullys you can easily pull together a raid at the gates of Qeynos or Freeport and take things into your own hands. And the penalty may seem stiff, half your cash, rez sickness, battered arrmor but you get lots in exchange for returning the favor. I lost and made 3 gold one night because of fighting other players and it was exhilirating. The best part, I chose to play on a PvP server. I now play WoW with my friends at work because I can't convince 'em to play EQ II with me but I will go back one day. It gives the gankers their freedom with limits that allow the rest of us to enjoy the game. It boils down to bullies wanting all of us to have to play their game so they can beat up on us. Well, Sony may usually screw us all over but this time they're taking our side and saying no to the bullies. I'm sure they'll all cry online about how Sony is depriving us of our wants and needs, but to me it sounds like the bullies are taking Sony's place in telling us what we really want and should have. Turns out you didn't save me that much time anyway, Duncan.
My pleasure/Sorry for the time I did/didn't save you!
In the end, no matter how much they want to justify it, MOST (not all) harcores are virtual bullies who only engage in their version of PVP when the scales are tipped in their favor. Most games have a /duel system and others have areas where it's free for all, yet they still whine about the death of PVP and one must wonder why...
It's because they cannot wonder around ganking the lesser and going impune.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Friend Bear:' Hiya everyone, let's be friends! let's play a game, it's called a mmorpg.' 'Let's play one which is fun! Let's hope Professor Coldheart isn't playing it!' says Funheart Bear. Harmony Bear:' Naah, he wouldn't play a game where the sun shines and where everyone lives in harmony.' Share Bear speaks:'Let's all share this wonderful experience and ask our friends on Earth to join!' Laugh-a-lot Bear & Love-a-lot Bear reply in unison:'YES! That's a great idea let's laugh and love the community!' Secret Bear:' I can even look for secrets and show em to my clostest friends!' Bashful Heart Bear:' Even shy people can join in and look forward to finding friends!' Surprise Bear:' There are even surprises! New things may come with time!' Tenderheart Bear:' When friends are in trouble, we all will go help and care for him!' Daydream Bear:' It's like a dream come true!' Champ Bear:' We can even have some healthy competition!' Cheer Bear:' I will cheer you all on!' Goodluck Bear:' I will wish you all good luck!' Grumpy Bear:' Sometimes i'll be grumpy playing it, but I will persevere.' Trueheart Bear:' All in all we all want to have fun and be friends!' Wish Bear:' I'm also wishing for this to happen!' Do-your-best Bear:'Let's do our best to make this happen!' Bedtime Bear:' But let's not forget to get into bed on time, so we all can start fresh tomorrow!'
Professor ColdHeart:' Hehehehehheheheeh, I will spoil their fun! I will throw a monkey in the wrench! I will be naughty!!'
Developer :'Hmmmm, I need to make a lot of cash. How do I do this? the Care Bears have a lot of friends on Earth and like to play together. Yes! I make a game where they all can play together and have fun, I give them all the freedom they want!' Then Professor ColdHeart & Co. (Grim Reaper, Dr. Death, Lady Death etc.) come and abuse the freedom given by the developer and the Care Bears & friends leave for greener pastures.
Developer loses a lot of income and changes his game, he limits the freedom and makes sure everyone in the game can ignore Professor Coldheart & friends. So a new game emerges, a game where people can have fun AND still be competitive. The game became such a hit that the Care Bears & friends play it all the time! Professor Coldheart tries to kill the Carebears fun, but nobody hears him.
So Professor Coldheart gets mad and shouts that he has been done wrong. He hopes that the developer will listen to him, but the developer is to busy counting all the money he gathered from the Care Bears. But the Care Bears wouldn't be Care Bears if they didn't listen to his cry for help. So we all listen to Professor Coldheart and try to help him, but he just doesn't want to change, because he has a cold heart. So we pity him and show him developer Underworld, this developer makes a game almost exactly like the original game of Developer.
So Professor Coldheart & friends go play this game, but it is not the same. They can't annoy the Care Bears & friends or spoil their fun, because the Care Bears aren't even here! The Professor Coldheart team can only annoy themselves and as you know they all have short fuses. So, the obvious thing happened, developer Underworld has a hardtime cashing in and changes the game to a clone game of Developer's second game. All the friend's of Care Bears come to Underworld's game, but Professor Coldheart can't annoy or spoil the fun of the Carebears, because the Care Bears still can't hear him.
So again Professor Coldheart starts to shout again that he has been done wrong. So again the Care Bears & friends try to care for him, but some of the Care Bear friends get fed up with the Professor's attitude and try to find out why he wants to be so coldhearted all the time. And then the Professor blew his top and uses a lot of short words & insults, just to vent his anger or actually he's just depressed, because he's always ignored. The friends of the Care Bears were shocked by this behavior, so they just avoid Professor Coldheart. But the Care Bears find it sad to leave Professor Coldheart all alone, so they try their best to comfort him, because they know that deep, deep inside Professor Coldheart's heart there's a timid young boy looking for some motherlove. But Professor Coldheart simply can't take charity from the Care Bears so he resorts to his old tricks...and all starts again...
If I attacked an enemy NPC I was flagged for PvP for 5 minutes. Or I could go to a recruiter and go perma overt. The choice was mine.
As a Jedi, I truly enjoyed the bounty hunter pvp. I always had to look over my shoulder. It really made me feel like I was being hunted and had to go into hiding.
WoW's pvp servers never felt like SWG's system. Once I hit level 20 and left my so-called home controlled lands, it was open gank season. I spent all night sometimes trying to finish one stinking quest because some punk kids thought it was funny to gank camp my body for hours.
Originally posted by Nerf09 You cannot change the environment, its static. YOu grind-mine and camp the gate, big whoop. Who cares what clan controls what instanced-server in Eve. Dont bother arguing with me, when you jump into a new system, you are changing servers.
Again, have you actually played EVE?
The environment is most definitely NOT static.You can build starbases (also referred to as player-owned-stations, or POS) around a moon. These starbases are basically a collection of structures inside a force field, and can serve a number of purposes, all different depending on which structures the owning corporation (guild) decides to put up.
You can erect ship hangar arrays to store modules and ships in. And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
You can erect ship maintenance arrays so you can refit your ships in space. And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
You can erect moon mining modules that allow you to harvest rare materials from the moon the POS is in orbit around. Yup, completely different minerals used in building ships and used to building space stations which have a bajillion hitpoints. It was implimented horribly.
You can erect storage silos to store minerals you've harvested or mined. For completely different minerals. Theres one class of minerals for building ships and items, and theres another class of minerals used for the add-on game of building space stations and such, what your talking about. Two completely seperate and different games. Not to mention the buildings have a bajillion hitpoints.
You can erect refining arrays to refine those minerals.And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
You can erect shipyards to build ships with - in fact, certain capital ships can ONLY be built at a POS. And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
And, in addition to all of these, you can erect all sorts of offensive and defensive modules to make your POS the next best thing to the Death Star, and woe to any hostile who warps in on it and doesnt' bring a fleet of dreadnoughts with him. And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
Another important facet of POS is that they can be used to claim sovereignty over a star system. And the minerals you build it with are completely different then the minerals you use to build a ship, two completely different games like the space game and the ground game in SWG, one doesnt effect the other.
In addition to POS, there are also conquerable stations, which can be taken over by players. These are controlled in conjunction with POS - while there is a friendly POS up in the same system and officially claiming sovereignty of it, the conquerable station cannot be attacked. The POS (or POSes, if more than one, as there usually is) must be destroyed before the aggressor can attack the station. These stations are only found out in 0.0. Ooo, capture the flag, how exciting.
Finally, there are outposts. These are basically conquerable stations that are built by players where there was no station before. In order to build them, you must first have sovereignty over the system, then you have to bring in about 20 billion bajillion ISK worth of materials in a freighter. From there, the outpost is put together, and a temporary construction platform (known as an "egg" due to its appearance) is the result. Once the temporary construction platform is finished, if it survives through the next downtime (i.e. isn't attacked and destroyed by another group of players), it becomes an outpost when the servers finish coming back up.
Again, how is that part of a static environment? Just as SWG was a static environment. If you want, I can also get some links to videos showing the destruction of various POS, and it took a bajillion missles to do it.
Anyway, please make sure you have your facts straight before posting. It tends to help.
Originally posted by Hardin First of all If you were in a frig how in gods name did an Apoc catch you? I fly an Apoc and the lock time on a frig is huge - even with sensor boosters. Even if you lock a frig unless you are at sniping range a BS gun has a hard time hitting such a small target. If the Apoc was at close range you could actually orbit it at 4km and it couldn't even touch you unless it was specially fitted purely anti-frig with small med guns and small med drones. The only way an Apoc would catch you at a gate is if you are dawdling and not taking enough care. Jumping in a frigate should align and warp before a BS even gets a lock on you and if you were approaching a gate from 15km - well you should have considered using an MWD which in a frig will again get you to the gate almost before the Apoc can locked and fire at you. When I want to travel around I buy an Executioner frigate (one of the cheapest available) I stick an MWD (speed boost) and 2 Internal Nanofibres (extra speed & faster alignment for warp) and nothing has ever caught it - even going through 0.0 pirate camps in notorious systems such as HED-GP. Now you also have to look at this from the perspective of this 'Apoc' bully. He is clearly out looking for some action... but he is also taking a huge risk of his own - his loot afterall is that much more attractive that yours. Pirates get ganked all the time. While they will kill targets of opportunity that may wander by they are themselves a target of opportunity... so in a way they are putting way more on the line than your starter frigate.... You talk about PvP honour... well tell me how much PvP honour do you see in the real world? When 95 year old granny is mugged by a gang of 6 youths, or when a global superpower invades a developing country? If you wanted to kick the shit out of some guy who insulted your mother would you wait till he had 5 mates with him or get him when he is on his own? Do people in the real world seek out 'balanced' fights. No they don't. Everyone always wants a tactical advantage because everyone always wants to win. EVE mirrors life. Pirates will try and kill you anyway they can. Your only hope is to be badder and better than they are. If you are feeling picked on do what you would do in real life. Learn how to defend yourself and get some friends. The more friends the better - they are easy to make as everyone is after the same thing you are - mutual protection. EVE forces you to interact for your very survival... Want to play solo... fine then dont take any risks and dont compain about being ganked... Take precautions, be clever and you can succeed in EVE... EVE is about risks vs rewards. If you want the rewards then you have to take the risks and those risks include gate camps...
Originally posted by duncan_922 Like I said, I'm pretty new at EVE so I didn't know that I could out-run it. I just wanted to get to the station where I was supposed to leave the goods. Second of all, in real life, I'm 6 feet tall and I weigh 250 pounds. That doesn't give me the right to go around beating up people who are smaller than me. Just because I can doesn't mean I should.
*shrug*
PvP will never work with everquest clones,where you only control 1 uber-character all twinked out. ANd neither will permadeath be implimented.
what we need is a completely new foundation like MMO-RTS.
Originally posted by Finbar --- "FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards." ---- Heres some games for you. 1) Street fighter. 2) Call of Duty Multiplayer. 3) Quake (Whatever derivative they are up to these days). 4) Any of the Tom Clancy Online stuff. Have fun with your total lack of COMPLEX teamwork, complete lack of explorative value, and merry-go-round game play. Personally I play roleplaying games to roleplay out an interesting story. Endlessly smashing another player with a slower computer is not my idea of a good story telling effort. And games that use PvP as an EASY solution to end game content are simply, to simple for me.
5) Planetside.
6) WWIIONLINE
So call me a carebear, just dont forget I got Brigadier General rank in the German Army, and Colonel in the Luftwaffee (wwiionline). I know all about PvP. The twinkers, e-bayers, and lowbie-gankers dont know what PvP is.
cry yourself to sleep ^^ before you do that, at least download the movie that guy linked and watch it. then you know in which great game you are NOT welcome
lol
loser
Askatan
Your the loser, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Times a million, infinity.
it is truly inspiring to see people have such an effect on there gaming community...not only that but the after effects and fallout must also have been huge...guilds screening for spys, guilds wanting revenge. guilds literally wanting to wipe out the assasins from the universe becuse they are a threat. i dont blame them i would too.....
if you r a long term mmo player no explanations are need for this player content ffapvp occurence....
these scenarios will never ever happen in todays mmo market....and to ignore them is to stop the whole genre from evolving, if youve never played ultima or eve u cant comment on ffapvp
Originally posted by GIRO this link highlites what scenarios can be created with ffapvphttp://www.mmodig.com/?p=155it is truly inspiring to see people have such an effect on there gaming community...not only that but the after effects and fallout must also have been huge...guilds screening for spys, guilds wanting revenge. guilds literally wanting to wipe out the assasins from the universe becuse they are a threat. i dont blame them i would too.....if you r a long term mmo player no explanations are need for this player content ffapvp occurence....http://www.aschulze.net/ultima/stories9/beta.htmthese scenarios will never ever happen in todays mmo market....and to ignore them is to stop the whole genre from evolving, if youve never played ultima or eve u cant comment on ffapvp
I knew about the UO thing with LB, but that story about Eve is astounding. Almost makes me want to finish the tutorial on my trial...
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.
Comments
Age of the carebear = age of mainstream gaming. Those of you who want to play 'hardcore' games are in the very, VERY small minority.
Again, have you actually played EVE?
The environment is most definitely NOT static.You can build starbases (also referred to as player-owned-stations, or POS) around a moon. These starbases are basically a collection of structures inside a force field, and can serve a number of purposes, all different depending on which structures the owning corporation (guild) decides to put up.
In addition to POS, there are also conquerable stations, which can be taken over by players. These are controlled in conjunction with POS - while there is a friendly POS up in the same system and officially claiming sovereignty of it, the conquerable station cannot be attacked. The POS (or POSes, if more than one, as there usually is) must be destroyed before the aggressor can attack the station. These stations are only found out in 0.0.
Finally, there are outposts. These are basically conquerable stations that are built by players where there was no station before. In order to build them, you must first have sovereignty over the system, then you have to bring in about 20 billion ISK worth of materials in a freighter. From there, the outpost is put together, and a temporary construction platform (known as an "egg" due to its appearance) is the result. Once the temporary construction platform is finished, if it survives through the next downtime (i.e. isn't attacked and destroyed by another group of players), it becomes an outpost when the servers finish coming back up.
Here's a link to a video showing a partially-constructed outpost, then the finished product. It was done by the Mercenary Coalition, who were hired to protect the construction endeavor and help insure that it succeeded: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=286857&page=1#1
Again, how is that part of a static environment? If you want, I can also get some links to videos showing the destruction of various POS.
Anyway, please make sure you have your facts straight before posting. It tends to help.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
i dunno.
for example, wow battlegrounds, the worst parts are the pve.
and battlegrounds itself is a crappy flacid system that takes all the fun out of combat.
it literally made me want to bore my eyes out with a scout knife.
one of the coolest things about cs was that many people like myself hadnt played rounds where if you died you were forced to wait until the next round... it hink this gave meaning to combat, stealth, etc etc..
i dunno. i just think the spawn system in wow bg ruined the game.
whatever carebear road games go down, just god let it not be like bg's.
and sadly they are, gw, sun, huxley and a ton of other new mmo's are planning on instancing everything.
whatthe fuck?
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Do those of us looking for PvP with death penalties belong to a smaller niche than PvE w/out death penalties? Yes, the numbers prove it. Is our smaller niche economincally viable? Yes, the numbers prove it and the undercurrent is getting stronger.
It is about choice. If you read into the original post and get behind the specifics, what he is saying is that those who seek the PvP with death penalties (be they full loot or PD to somewhere in-between), want more choices. Most companies haven't given us a choice or even had the stones to add the choice via HC (for lack of a better term) servers to the current crop of PvE/non-death penalty games.
This is, of course compounded by the mighty monstrous hampster wheel that is the gearcentric, level-treader that results in new players being a fraction of a percent as strong as someone who has played for a month. And yes, that type of desparity and time commitment will NOT work in a "death penalty" oriented game.
Enter concerns about total anarchy and killers and sickos playing out their power trips. If that generalization makes you feel better, ok. Some people like to play sports and enter contests where the end results in a winner and a loser. They like stakes. Others like adventure with real danger...it makes it an...um...adventure.
The current game in development that I am following will allow for settlement creation along with laws, boundaries and law-enforcement via PCs AND NPCs purchased through successful economies. It won't have level desparity, instaporting, instancing, unrealistic chat, etc. A group of closely knit individuals will have the ability to build up a town, defense it, equip it via crafters, and establish trade. Of course, you could just as easily spend resources creating a conquering force, but it wont be so easy as porting over to the settlement 30 miles away and crashing a party. You'll have have to work to get their and you better have logistics planned out in advance. The same goes for killers within settlement boundaries. They will have to risk it and work for it. I hope it makes it and is a hit so that those wishing for PvP with consequences will have at least one more choice when it comes to gaming.
www.trialsofascension.com
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
You can skill up all you want. But it's going to be funny when your first pvp experience is you dying to a 2 week old in a nooby frigate..
lol so true
it seems he doesnt understand the game at all... but wait: he isnt even playing hehe
and I really thought everyone finally got it that you can be an asset in PvP in 2 weeks time.... maybe he doesnt read the board, the corp channel OR the help channel... you dont have to be able to fly Tec 2 cruisers to do PvP, mate!
those guys played too many EQ clones where the "endgame" really starts after you reach the maximum level.... too bad he doesnt get that in EVE NO ONE will ever reach the point in which he has trained all skills max.... that would be pointless anyway...
focus, specialize and train few but important skills! you can fly a cruiser in A FEW DAYS. you can get fregatte 4 even at character creation if you pay some attention to skills....
and if you dont play the game, you cannot get good in it... (or get money to buy the more expensive skills... or ships or whatever.... ) you will be a n00b with millions of skillpoints.... no use for anybody... the difference between the best ships/items and the nearly best in EVE is very small, but huge in skill requirements... your ACTUAL experience is much more valuable that to have some skill risen from 4 to 5 (max skill level for the non EVEs). 4 to 5 costs nearly 5 times more time than 1-4
anyway.... kind of pointless to tell him that, I guess
Askatan
Problem is that there's no honor in PVP anymore. Very few are the guild vs. guild wars. Most of the "hardcore"'s idea of PvP is ganking, PKing, gate camping, etc.. Most of the MMOs out there have a duel system where it can be one-on-one, but yet, you whine that the "Age of the Carebear has dawned upon us"... Why? Because most of the PvPers only engage on their version of PVP when they either outnumber their victim or they have superiority. I remember the good old days of UO where there were true wars between guild against guild. But then it degraded into constant ganking by lamers who wondered around looking for someone to kill and loot. So they had to split it up between Trammel and Felucca.
Same is with every game today. I used to play SWG since it began, and I remember this particular guy who killed me while I was very new. I remember I told him that it was very lame of him, he being so strong while I was just a Weaponsmith looking for minerals wearing bone armor. He said: "An Imp is an Imp" and ran away laughing. So later I ran unto him on Bestine and I called a RL friend who was a Jedi (also Imp). My friend waived his glow stick around him and even challenged him to a duel. But I guess "An Imp is an Imp" didn't apply to Jedi because he just ran away.
Now I recently started playing EVE. I want to be a miner, but I've been running courier missions to get money. So one of those missions took me to low sec space, and sure enough, there was a gate-camper there. I'm flying a little frigate while he has an Apocalypse. Under those odds, it would seem like a waste of a missile to even kill me, let alone pod me. What the hell did he have to gain? None of my modules would do him any good on such mighty ship? But sure enough, he blew up my ship and podded me. And now I'm screwed because by the time I have a ship tough enough to kill him, my kill rights would've ran out.
So what I'm trying to say is that, the reason why the "Age of the Carebear has dawned on you" is because MOST (not all) of you PVPers are just bullies who won't get into a fight unless the balance is tipped on your favor. So I hope the Age of the Carebear is here to stay!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
I was playing Conquest which is a FFA environment, and within the first 5 minutes I got killed twice.
I dont see the thrill of FFA when someone who is level 70, wearing high level armor and packing the Almighty Noob Killer sword crushes my level 1 guy who is trying to kill chickens with a pointy stick in the noob area.
PVP limited to certain areas gets a lot of complaints from people, but it at least gives the noobs a chance to get into a game a bit before getting killed.
Overall I like PVP and did a lot of faction fighting in SWG, but I go out of my way to not target someone who has no chance against me.
First of all
If you were in a frig how in gods name did an Apoc catch you? I fly an Apoc and the lock time on a frig is huge - even with sensor boosters.
Even if you lock a frig unless you are at sniping range a BS gun has a hard time hitting such a small target. If the Apoc was at close range you could actually orbit it at 4km and it couldn't even touch you unless it was specially fitted purely anti-frig with small med guns and small med drones.
The only way an Apoc would catch you at a gate is if you are dawdling and not taking enough care. Jumping in a frigate should align and warp before a BS even gets a lock on you and if you were approaching a gate from 15km - well you should have considered using an MWD which in a frig will again get you to the gate almost before the Apoc can locked and fire at you.
When I want to travel around I buy an Executioner frigate (one of the cheapest available) I stick an MWD (speed boost) and 2 Internal Nanofibres (extra speed & faster alignment for warp) and nothing has ever caught it - even going through 0.0 pirate camps in notorious systems such as HED-GP.
Now you also have to look at this from the perspective of this 'Apoc' bully. He is clearly out looking for some action... but he is also taking a huge risk of his own - his loot afterall is that much more attractive that yours.
Pirates get ganked all the time. While they will kill targets of opportunity that may wander by they are themselves a target of opportunity... so in a way they are putting way more on the line than your starter frigate....
You talk about PvP honour... well tell me how much PvP honour do you see in the real world? When 95 year old granny is mugged by a gang of 6 youths, or when a global superpower invades a developing country? If you wanted to kick the shit out of some guy who insulted your mother would you wait till he had 5 mates with him or get him when he is on his own? Do people in the real world seek out 'balanced' fights. No they don't. Everyone always wants a tactical advantage because everyone always wants to win.
EVE mirrors life.
Pirates will try and kill you anyway they can. Your only hope is to be badder and better than they are. If you are feeling picked on do what you would do in real life. Learn how to defend yourself and get some friends. The more friends the better - they are easy to make as everyone is after the same thing you are - mutual protection. EVE forces you to interact for your very survival... Want to play solo... fine then dont take any risks and dont compain about being ganked...
Take precautions, be clever and you can succeed in EVE... EVE is about risks vs rewards. If you want the rewards then you have to take the risks and those risks include gate camps...
Amarr Victor
Like I said, I'm pretty new at EVE so I didn't know that I could out-run it. I just wanted to get to the station where I was supposed to leave the goods.
Second of all, in real life, I'm 6 feet tall and I weigh 250 pounds. That doesn't give me the right to go around beating up people who are smaller than me. Just because I can doesn't mean I should.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Lets see, if you view the numbers of the games above I think you get an idea why "carebears" rule. As loud and overly self promoting as all PvPers are on forums like this one, you really can't all seem to get together pick one game and give it 400,000 subscribers and make it a sucess. Ultima was succesful back in the day but that was when you had 2 choices. Otherwise a lot of people just don't want their game time "ruined" by someone who is confused as to what exactly "our game" means.
In the future, DnL, Mourning (revamped), Darkfall and a ton of Korean imports are coming that will offer PvP. If you wish to see this perfect PvP game that every PvPer is clamoring for then go out and support one of them and make it successful. If you go to the EQII, EQI, SWG, Vanguard, WOW froums etc etc etc you will see people whining about PvP not being like the games above you mentioned. Thats because those games were made for someone else. For them to change would cause thousands of people to depart. You guys are barking up the wrong tree. Unify for a game that is being created specifically for you (not us carebears) and then give them money, tell them what is wrong, make that game great in your opinions. Most importantly remember that Carebears won't care about your game or want to hear about how it rules or whatever. It seems like in every article you guys want to namecall and insuniate how we ruined the gaming community, blah, blah, blah and then you wonder in total confusion how someone could not also want the game you all dream of?
I'd just like to say thanks to Duncan for saving me the time. I don't have to fill this full of my own stories about how the "hardcore" MMORPG players crying about FFA PvP are really just kids who are bullying the "carebears".
Whoever it was that said games mirror real life is a jackass. He said that because when he gets picked on in real life he jumps on some game and ganks low level players as his "defense". If games mirrored real life I wouldn't play 'em, I'd sit in my room crying because there's no freedom from my normal life. That's like the gamers who talk about how you should have to spend hours getting from one town to the next, you should spend thousands of hours grinding, and everything in game should be very expensive so you have to farm gold.
I personally think that EQ II has a great system now. I actually love the game. I hate having to say that because of all the insinuations that come with liking Everquest but I'll admit it. The PvP servers are fun. Even though it is full of the above-mentioned bullys you can easily pull together a raid at the gates of Qeynos or Freeport and take things into your own hands. And the penalty may seem stiff, half your cash, rez sickness, battered arrmor but you get lots in exchange for returning the favor. I lost and made 3 gold one night because of fighting other players and it was exhilirating. The best part, I chose to play on a PvP server.
I now play WoW with my friends at work because I can't convince 'em to play EQ II with me but I will go back one day. It gives the gankers their freedom with limits that allow the rest of us to enjoy the game. It boils down to bullies wanting all of us to have to play their game so they can beat up on us. Well, Sony may usually screw us all over but this time they're taking our side and saying no to the bullies. I'm sure they'll all cry online about how Sony is depriving us of our wants and needs, but to me it sounds like the bullies are taking Sony's place in telling us what we really want and should have.
Turns out you didn't save me that much time anyway, Duncan.
--- "FFA PVP
- Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere
- When a player dies they drop all items.
- Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions.
- No instances (So you can't hide)
- No Zones
- World PVP Only
- No NPC Guards." ----
Heres some games for you.
1) Street fighter.
2) Call of Duty Multiplayer.
3) Quake (Whatever derivative they are up to these days).
4) Any of the Tom Clancy Online stuff.
Have fun with your total lack of COMPLEX teamwork, complete lack of explorative value, and merry-go-round game play.
Personally I play roleplaying games to roleplay out an interesting story. Endlessly smashing another player with a slower computer is not my idea of a good story telling effort. And games that use PvP as an EASY solution to end game content are simply, to simple for me.
FINBAR
-------------------------------------------
--This post is long, random, and poorly written.
I think you do not a have good understanding of PvP in the MMORPG world, that or you have never really played an MMORPG in your life. First off you say that Controversey and Drama between players is non-existant, and this is a blatanly false statement. If you believe that you need PvP to create Drama and Controversey you need to stick with any MMORPG until you reach the highest levels and experience that. You mentioned UO when you were pointing out this fact, and UO most of all lack any sense of drama. Because of its free form tactics and open-ended gameplay it was hard most times to really create a dramatic environment. Now if you look at your "carebear" MMORPGs, WoW, EQ, etc the drama that is built up by their "end-game" content makes anything that UO and AC could develop seem trivial. I have heard grown men break down and cry via Vent over issues of loot and other elements that result from PvE. Sure I have heard loud strings of curses and profanity that would make a sailor blush whenever a poor felow lost his Tower Deed to a "evil" PK but hearing someone cry? Very playing the game because of that? Hardly.
Next you point out about how you know who your real friends are because they do not kill you. Maybe your friends are just gigantic carebears. The first boat deed in UO I ever got was the result of me killing my best friend. I got my first tower deed by killing a guildmate. If you are able to form that deep of a bonding relationship with someone via the internet that you can trust them to cover you while you are transporting your Castle deed, maybe you two should date because I would not even trust my Mom in that regard.
I can agree with the lack of penalities, but how it creates a lack of adrenaline rush I disagree with. Playing DAoC, WoW, EQ2, I have gotten that twitch when some random person trying to gank me, and I had to fight for my life to fend them off. If you look at a game based only on what happens to you when you die and the penalities that may be incured you are missing most of the game play there. Sure you may die and not lose any items, but you did lose and that person who killed you may very well remember that and look at you as an easy target. Reputation. That is what you want, to strike fear into the hearts of many and it can be done in any of these carebear games. Whenever I would get jumped in UO I never cared about what items I may lose, mainly because it was super easy to get anything, I was more worried about what people may say. My guild was well known for being one of the best and to lose to some no name warrior and have that chance of our guild name being run through the mud? That was the higher priority.
Are we in an Era of Carebear MMORPGs? Definetly, but not for the reasons you described. The games are fine, the players are not. Many of these new MMORPGs are full of first time players and many have come over not for PvP but for a different experience. These games are what you make it, and you have not tried to make it anything besides a pretty UO which they are not. The hardcore PvP experience is still there, you are just missing it.
My pleasure/Sorry for the time I did/didn't save you!
In the end, no matter how much they want to justify it, MOST (not all) harcores are virtual bullies who only engage in their version of PVP when the scales are tipped in their favor. Most games have a /duel system and others have areas where it's free for all, yet they still whine about the death of PVP and one must wonder why...
It's because they cannot wonder around ganking the lesser and going impune.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
-Ahem-
Friend Bear:' Hiya everyone, let's be friends! let's play a game, it's called a mmorpg.' 'Let's play one which is fun! Let's hope Professor Coldheart isn't playing it!' says Funheart Bear. Harmony Bear:' Naah, he wouldn't play a game where the sun shines and where everyone lives in harmony.' Share Bear speaks:'Let's all share this wonderful experience and ask our friends on Earth to join!' Laugh-a-lot Bear & Love-a-lot Bear reply in unison:'YES! That's a great idea let's laugh and love the community!' Secret Bear:' I can even look for secrets and show em to my clostest friends!' Bashful Heart Bear:' Even shy people can join in and look forward to finding friends!' Surprise Bear:' There are even surprises! New things may come with time!' Tenderheart Bear:' When friends are in trouble, we all will go help and care for him!' Daydream Bear:' It's like a dream come true!' Champ Bear:' We can even have some healthy competition!' Cheer Bear:' I will cheer you all on!' Goodluck Bear:' I will wish you all good luck!' Grumpy Bear:' Sometimes i'll be grumpy playing it, but I will persevere.' Trueheart Bear:' All in all we all want to have fun and be friends!' Wish Bear:' I'm also wishing for this to happen!' Do-your-best Bear:'Let's do our best to make this happen!' Bedtime Bear:' But let's not forget to get into bed on time, so we all can start fresh tomorrow!'
Professor ColdHeart:' Hehehehehheheheeh, I will spoil their fun! I will throw a monkey in the wrench! I will be naughty!!'
Developer :'Hmmmm, I need to make a lot of cash. How do I do this? the Care Bears have a lot of friends on Earth and like to play together.
Yes! I make a game where they all can play together and have fun, I give them all the freedom they want!' Then Professor ColdHeart & Co. (Grim Reaper, Dr. Death, Lady Death etc.) come and abuse the freedom given by the developer and the Care Bears & friends leave for greener pastures.
Developer loses a lot of income and changes his game, he limits the freedom and makes sure everyone in the game can ignore Professor Coldheart & friends. So a new game emerges, a game where people can have fun AND still be competitive. The game became such a hit that the Care Bears & friends play it all the time! Professor Coldheart tries to kill the Carebears fun, but nobody hears him.
So Professor Coldheart gets mad and shouts that he has been done wrong. He hopes that the developer will listen to him, but the developer is to busy counting all the money he gathered from the Care Bears. But the Care Bears wouldn't be Care Bears if they didn't listen to his cry for help. So we all listen to Professor Coldheart and try to help him, but he just doesn't want to change, because he has a cold heart. So we pity him and show him developer Underworld, this developer makes a game almost exactly like the original game of Developer.
So Professor Coldheart & friends go play this game, but it is not the same. They can't annoy the Care Bears & friends or spoil their fun, because the Care Bears aren't even here! The Professor Coldheart team can only annoy themselves and as you know they all have short fuses. So, the obvious thing happened, developer Underworld has a hardtime cashing in and changes the game to a clone game of Developer's second game. All the friend's of Care Bears come to Underworld's game, but Professor Coldheart can't annoy or spoil the fun of the Carebears, because the Care Bears still can't hear him.
So again Professor Coldheart starts to shout again that he has been done wrong. So again the Care Bears & friends try to care for him, but some of the Care Bear friends get fed up with the Professor's attitude and try to find out why he wants to be so coldhearted all the time. And then the Professor blew his top and uses a lot of short words & insults, just to vent his anger or actually he's just depressed, because he's always ignored. The friends of the Care Bears were shocked by this behavior, so they just avoid Professor Coldheart. But the Care Bears find it sad to leave Professor Coldheart all alone, so they try their best to comfort him, because they know that deep, deep inside Professor Coldheart's heart there's a timid young boy looking for some motherlove. But Professor Coldheart simply can't take charity from the Care Bears so he resorts to his old tricks...and all starts again...
The Care Bears still will try to care!
I liked SWG's old system for PvP.
If I attacked an enemy NPC I was flagged for PvP for 5 minutes. Or I could go to a recruiter and go perma overt. The choice was mine.
As a Jedi, I truly enjoyed the bounty hunter pvp. I always had to look over my shoulder. It really made me feel like I was being hunted and had to go into hiding.
WoW's pvp servers never felt like SWG's system. Once I hit level 20 and left my so-called home controlled lands, it was open gank season. I spent all night sometimes trying to finish one stinking quest because some punk kids thought it was funny to gank camp my body for hours.
Again, have you actually played EVE?
The environment is most definitely NOT static.You can build starbases (also referred to as player-owned-stations, or POS) around a moon. These starbases are basically a collection of structures inside a force field, and can serve a number of purposes, all different depending on which structures the owning corporation (guild) decides to put up.
In addition to POS, there are also conquerable stations, which can be taken over by players. These are controlled in conjunction with POS - while there is a friendly POS up in the same system and officially claiming sovereignty of it, the conquerable station cannot be attacked. The POS (or POSes, if more than one, as there usually is) must be destroyed before the aggressor can attack the station. These stations are only found out in 0.0. Ooo, capture the flag, how exciting.
Finally, there are outposts. These are basically conquerable stations that are built by players where there was no station before. In order to build them, you must first have sovereignty over the system, then you have to bring in about 20 billion bajillion ISK worth of materials in a freighter. From there, the outpost is put together, and a temporary construction platform (known as an "egg" due to its appearance) is the result. Once the temporary construction platform is finished, if it survives through the next downtime (i.e. isn't attacked and destroyed by another group of players), it becomes an outpost when the servers finish coming back up.
Here's a link to a video showing a partially-constructed outpost, then the finished product. It was done by the Mercenary Coalition, who were hired to protect the construction endeavor and help insure that it succeeded: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=286857&page=1#1
Again, how is that part of a static environment? Just as SWG was a static environment. If you want, I can also get some links to videos showing the destruction of various POS, and it took a bajillion missles to do it.
Anyway, please make sure you have your facts straight before posting. It tends to help.
Eve Online fanboys. *sigh*
*shrug*
PvP will never work with everquest clones,where you only control 1 uber-character all twinked out. ANd neither will permadeath be implimented.
what we need is a completely new foundation like MMO-RTS.
5) Planetside.
6) WWIIONLINE
So call me a carebear, just dont forget I got Brigadier General rank in the German Army, and Colonel in the Luftwaffee (wwiionline). I know all about PvP. The twinkers, e-bayers, and lowbie-gankers dont know what PvP is.
forum trolls. *sigh*
cry yourself to sleep ^^ before you do that, at least download the movie that guy linked and watch it. then you know in which great game you are NOT welcome
here is the link again: http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/videos/mc_eggwarmer_ws.wmv
and for vids with action: http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/main/videos/index.asp
lol
loser
Askatan
forum trolls. *sigh*
cry yourself to sleep ^^ before you do that, at least download the movie that guy linked and watch it. then you know in which great game you are NOT welcome
lol
loser
Askatan
Your the loser, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Times a million, infinity.
this link highlites what scenarios can be created with ffapvp
http://www.mmodig.com/?p=155
it is truly inspiring to see people have such an effect on there gaming community...not only that but the after effects and fallout must also have been huge...guilds screening for spys, guilds wanting revenge. guilds literally wanting to wipe out the assasins from the universe becuse they are a threat. i dont blame them i would too.....
if you r a long term mmo player no explanations are need for this player content ffapvp occurence....
http://www.aschulze.net/ultima/stories9/beta.htm
these scenarios will never ever happen in todays mmo market....and to ignore them is to stop the whole genre from evolving, if youve never played ultima or eve u cant comment on ffapvp
C
I knew about the UO thing with LB, but that story about Eve is astounding. Almost makes me want to finish the tutorial on my trial...
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.