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Old school communities weren't all that great.

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  • Gaming.Rocks2Gaming.Rocks2 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Remember that earlier account from UO, where PKers were costing the company income by driving new players away (resulting in trammeling)?

    Collision Doorway Blockers executing DOS attacks on other players?

    Not sure I'd agree with a "freedom of chaos" argument. A sane degree of restraint is necessary in even the most minimally functional society.

    I realize this is anathema to "mah phreedums!" sandbox players, but still...

    Many like virtual worlds because they can do different stuff than real world - one being bad. That should be treated differently than sociopathic sadistic behavior - it's ok to be bad. 
    Have a rewarding system for bounty hunters and you'll see a lot less griefers imo. 
    Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    The earliest MMOs had a pretty close target group which did improve the community somewhat, you did have more in common with other MMOs in the late 90s than today because the group that plays MMO todays are far broader.

    There are advantages with people comming from different backgrounds as well as disadvantages though and maybe MMOs could find a way to use that better

    Many like virtual worlds because they can do different stuff than real world - one being bad. That should be treated differently than sociopathic sadistic behavior - it's ok to be bad. 
    Have a rewarding system for bounty hunters and you'll see a lot less griefers imo. 
    Yes, having bounty hunters or knight orders with players do help, it is not enough if you go full FFA full loot however, you need more for that. I think you also need a far less powergap then MMO usually have so PvP combat actually becomes fun no matter what powerlevel you character have.

    Add something to GW2s system of leveling down people to the zone they are in as well and give loot from a loot table instead of a players inventory (and maybe a 10% or so to get one item from the player) and you might get it right enough to actually make open world PvP fun enough to really compete with PvE.

    After all do gamers love PvP, just look on the FPS and RTS genres, I don't buy that MMOers just love PvE because they are the type of players drawn to such games. Open world PvP just ain't good enough at the moment and if you could make a game where it is good enough that would be the holy grail of MMOs.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    Many like virtual worlds because they can do different stuff than real world - one being bad. 
    You don't need a virtual world to do different stuff than than real world. I just play some Fallout 4 .. no persistent online world, and kill some super mutant with a laser rifle. Don't tell me i can do that in the real world.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Kyleran said:


    And yet people that were considered jerks still got groups and epics.
    and those who don't care about grouping can always train to grief others. 
    As it should be, multi player games should always seek to add more ways for players to "interact" with others and impact their gaming experience, for good or ill.
    "should always" ... means "my preference" in your case.

    Why should devs add interactions that their audience find un-fun? Add something for "ill" just in the name of interactions in entertainment products ... really?

    Games, MP or not, "should be" fun for its audience. Otherwise, what is the point?
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited December 2015

    nariusseldon said: I just play some Fallout 4 .. no persistent online world, and kill some super mutant with a laser rifle. Don't tell me i can do that in the real world.
    Not unless you have an N.R.A. card.

    Whup, delete that, political commentary.
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited December 2015
    Many like virtual worlds because they can do different stuff than real world - one being bad. That should be treated differently than sociopathic sadistic behavior - it's ok to be bad.
    Sure, but even CCP recognizes there is a line which cannot be crossed in the name of "emergent gameplay."

    That line is, simply put, when you're costing the producers money and players. (i.e. when you're harming the game itself)
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    I'm sorry but I loved the old communities. Someone taught me how to play EQ by roleplaying with me and I quite enjoyed alot of good times in WoW during Vanilla and even up to Cataclysm just chatting in the regular channels.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,708
    Black listing didn't work. Very very few people  paid any attention to that.  Almost no one knew about websites where characters were posted and fewer went to them.  People  that were considered jerks still got groups and epics proving  that rep actually did not  matter to the general population only to you and your circle. 

    That is not completely true.  I remember many conversations at East Commons tunnel about jerk players and people such as myself took note of that.  In fact, at one point, I would compile my own list of jerks to avoid thanks to /ooc chat and my own experiences.  There were consequences, especially if you wanted to raid.

    Your point actually doesn't counter my own.  This was you and your circle.
    "rep actually did not  matter to the general population only to you and your circle."

    Do you have the data to support your claim or is it anecdotal, like mine.  We can only go by what we perceive or choose to believe what others have perceived since even "Data" can be fudged, lied about or taken out of context.  From my experiences, there were consequences for bad behavior in old EQ.  You can take it or leave it, but I and others can do the same with your claims.  The difference is that I did not dismiss your point of view, I merely stated that I had differing experiences which make your very first two declarative sentences untrue.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,708
    Cecropia said:
    Black listing didn't work. Very very few people  paid any attention to that.  Almost no one knew about websites where characters were posted and fewer went to them.  People  that were considered jerks still got groups and epics proving  that rep actually did not  matter to the general population only to you and your circle. 

    That is not completely true.  I remember many conversations at East Commons tunnel about jerk players and people such as myself took note of that.  In fact, at one point, I would compile my own list of jerks to avoid thanks to /ooc chat and my own experiences.  There were consequences, especially if you wanted to raid.

    Your point actually doesn't counter my own.  This was you and your circle.
    "rep actually did not  matter to the general population only to you and your circle."
    From my point of view it's just your word versus his; which by the way I've read countless posts over the years which supports Vorthanions' perspective over yours and by a large margin.

    And yet people that were considered jerks still got groups and epics.
    No one ever claimed that black listing or reputation prevented 100%  of the bad players for 100% of the time, but it did happen and a lot more than it happens in modern games.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,708
    Kyleran said:


    And yet people that were considered jerks still got groups and epics.
    and those who don't care about grouping can always train to grief others. 
    As it should be, multi player games should always seek to add more ways for players to "interact" with others and impact their gaming experience, for good or ill.
    "should always" ... means "my preference" in your case.

    Why should devs add interactions that their audience find un-fun? Add something for "ill" just in the name of interactions in entertainment products ... really?

    Games, MP or not, "should be" fun for its audience. Otherwise, what is the point?

    Perception of fun is not universal.  Hence the reason we have multiple genres, platforms and design choices.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    nariusseldon said: I just play some Fallout 4 .. no persistent online world, and kill some super mutant with a laser rifle. Don't tell me i can do that in the real world.
    Not unless you have an N.R.A. card.

    Whup, delete that, political commentary.
    lol ... 

    I don't realize a NRA membership can get me a LASER rifle, and a crack at shooter at SUPER mutants. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

     From my experiences, there were consequences for bad behavior in old EQ.  
    So what? In my experience, consequences did not eliminate bad behavior because there are always a**hole who does not care ... and it takes ONE to train the whole dungeon. 
  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

     From my experiences, there were consequences for bad behavior in old EQ.  
    So what? In my experience, consequences did not eliminate bad behavior because there are always a**hole who does not care ... and it takes ONE to train the whole dungeon. 
    And laws and fines and jail and prison don't eliminate crime, because there are always a**holes who do not care.

    Their presence still makes the world better.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357

    nariusseldon said: I just play some Fallout 4 .. no persistent online world, and kill some super mutant with a laser rifle. Don't tell me i can do that in the real world.
    Not unless you have an N.R.A. card.

    Whup, delete that, political commentary.
    lol ... 

    I don't realize a NRA membership can get me a LASER rifle, and a crack at shooter at SUPER mutants. 
    Well yeah, you don't get out enough then.  =)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

     From my experiences, there were consequences for bad behavior in old EQ.  
    So what? In my experience, consequences did not eliminate bad behavior because there are always a**hole who does not care ... and it takes ONE to train the whole dungeon. 
    And laws and fines and jail and prison don't eliminate crime, because there are always a**holes who do not care.

    Their presence still makes the world better.
    We are talking about games ... i do not have to settle with a game that is merely better, i can have one that has no bad behavior, because bad interactions (such as training) are plainly possible.

    Games are not the real world. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    Kyleran said:

    nariusseldon said: I just play some Fallout 4 .. no persistent online world, and kill some super mutant with a laser rifle. Don't tell me i can do that in the real world.
    Not unless you have an N.R.A. card.

    Whup, delete that, political commentary.
    lol ... 

    I don't realize a NRA membership can get me a LASER rifle, and a crack at shooter at SUPER mutants. 
    Well yeah, you don't get out enough then.  =)
    Certainly not enough to a post-apocalyptic world :)
  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    And laws and fines and jail and prison don't eliminate crime, because there are always a**holes who do not care.

    Their presence still makes the world better.
    We are talking about games ... i do not have to settle with a game that is merely better, i can have one that has no bad behavior, because bad interactions (such as training) are plainly possible.

    Games are not the real world. 
    Good job sidestepping the point.

    Here's the thing: Games are made with componentry from the real world (people) and employ psychology that works in the real world (carrot on a stick). MMOs, have also been used for behavioral studies (here's an after-the-fact incident involving WoW) because it is people playing them. Real people having real interaction that has a psychological quality we still don't quite understand.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    And laws and fines and jail and prison don't eliminate crime, because there are always a**holes who do not care.

    Their presence still makes the world better.
    We are talking about games ... i do not have to settle with a game that is merely better, i can have one that has no bad behavior, because bad interactions (such as training) are plainly possible.

    Games are not the real world. 
    Good job sidestepping the point.

    Here's the thing: Games are made with componentry from the real world (people) and employ psychology that works in the real world (carrot on a stick). MMOs, have also been used for behavioral studies (here's an after-the-fact incident involving WoW) because it is people playing them. Real people having real interaction that has a psychological quality we still don't quite understand.
    So? Games have taken out bad behavior (instancing .. no more camp drama, aggro tag .. no more training, roll your own loot .. no more ninjaing).

    MMO has been used for behavioral studies .. but that is not the main purpose. The main purpose of games is to entertain. And if bad behavior makes a game not fun to players, is that a reason not to take them away?

    Tell me, which game today will bother to let players train and try to fix it with sticks and carrots?
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