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Are Developers pushing us to use gold farmers?

TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

More and more games are using what I call gambling boxes.  It is getting harder and harder to buy what you actually want in a game.  You now have to buy these gambling boxes and take a chance where the odds are stacked against you.  In Archeage you have a 10% chance at getting a thunderstruck tree in a pack and in Star Wars the Old Republic it feel like the odds of getting a Rancor in a gold mount pack are even less than that.  They also pack these things with an incredible amount of crap you don’t actually want.

I have been trying to get a Rancor mount which currently goes for like 8 million on the auction house or I could try my luck with $12 to $15 gold mount packs.  My buddy showed up last night with his rancor mount and I was all ga-ga over him and asked him how he scored it.  He said he dropped $20 in the store, purchased two gold mount packs, opened them and got trash he did not want or could not sell.  He then went to a gold farmers site and purchased 8 million credits for $16 and then purchased the mount through the auction house. 

This got me thinking, maybe this is the answer for games like this.  I’m in my 40’s with plenty of disposable income to throw at games but I don’t like gambling money away on crap.  I like to buy what I want but game developers are making it harder and harder for me to do that.  I have always opposed gold sellers in games and have been under the impression they are bad for game economies but now I am not so sure.  If game makers could also include sought after items like the rancor in the store for $40 as well as the $12 cartel packs I would be ok but that is not the case. 

What is your opinion on gambling boxes and do you think using a gold farmer is an acceptable alternative to get around them?



"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    My opinion .. ignore the gambling boxes and play the game for free. If some whales want to gamble, let them. 
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,666
    With regards to gambling boxes, I'm very much against them. If you have to pay money to even get the gambling box then I'm even more against them as I believe it's just ethically wrong. However, if you can acquire boxes through in game means then its not too bad, just lazy design. 


    As to gold sellers and ever increasing prices in game, this is an unintended side effect of the transition from single-player to mmo RPGs. Most MMOs are constantly pumping more and more "money" into the local economy, through quest rewards, loot, pvp etc, but most MMOs do very little to take money out of economy (e.g. through repair costs). This leads to rapid inflation like you've spotted in SW:TOR. Its generally not an issue for long term players, but if you join the game late then it can be a pain at times trying to catch up. 

    I don't really have a problem with people using gold sellers in principle, but the reality of how gold sellers operate usually has a negative impact on the game. For example, "good" gold selling companies will have a lot of people simply farming stuff endlessly to make gold, but they'll also have teams of people who try to manipulate the market to their advantage, e.g. buying every single item of a certain type, then inflating the prices for that one item knowing they are the only supplier left. This leads to situations where you end up buying gold off the gold seller in order to spend that gold buying something from the gold seller. The gold seller wins twice. 


    At the end of the day, its personal choice. I don't think developers are pushing us towards using gold sellers (if they were, they'd just sell us the gold directly) but i do feel that developers have stopped putting in effort to develop sustainable ingame economies. 
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Devs just want you to buy those boxes for real money or buy their subscription token that you can exchange for in game currency.

    The developers took over the Gold Sellers.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited November 2015

    Talonsin said:
     I could try my luck with $12 to $15 gold mount packs.

    Yah, don't try your luck, it's gambling.

    First it is $15, then $30, then $100, and now you're addicted to spending money.

    And just to remind you the value of $15, it will get you a final fantasy games, instead of silly mount.

    You can also try FFXIV, none of that sillyness in that game.




  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Kiyoris said:

    Talonsin said:
     I could try my luck with $12 to $15 gold mount packs.

    Yah, don't try your luck, it's gambling.


    That's exactly what it is.

    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.
    Usually they are all over anything that shows half a nipple but if you get kids hooked on gambling, they don't give a damn.
    Go and figure.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    It might just be me but a Rancor sounds like the worst thing to ride I can think of...

    But you are right of course, selling expensive packs with mostly crap and a few rare good things is gambling. I don't think they expect you to buy gold from a cheap third party though, they want you to buy 30 or so packs for a fortune.

    You don't need to be Admiral Ackbar to realize: It's a trap!!!
  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    ste2000 said:
    Kiyoris said:

    Talonsin said:
     I could try my luck with $12 to $15 gold mount packs.

    Yah, don't try your luck, it's gambling.


    That's exactly what it is.

    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.
    Usually they are all over anything that shows half a nipple but if you get kids hooked on gambling, they don't give a damn.
    Go and figure.
    Not enough money to be made by the Bureaucrats yet... when more money can be made they will be all over it.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    ste2000 said:
    That's exactly what it is.

    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.
    Usually they are all over anything that shows half a nipple but if you get kids hooked on gambling, they don't give a damn.
    Go and figure.
    Not enough money to be made by the Bureaucrats yet... when more money can be made they will be all over it.
    To be fair are they over certain games like Smurf village that are aimed to really small kids and many times worse, I guess they just pick their battles because there are too many to fight all of them.
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Loke666 said:
    To be fair are they over certain games like Smurf village that are aimed to really small kids and many times worse, I guess they just pick their battles because there are too many to fight all of them.
    It shouldn't be too difficult IMO.
    That's clearly a gambling device, It works exactly  the same as the Slot Machines, with the difference that instead of winning cash you win an item, but in both you pay real money to have a tiny chance to win something big.
    I don't even think you need to change the law for it, I am pretty sure that if someone starts a class action they can win pretty easy.
    I guess we need to wait until someone gamble all his possession to win some Thunderstruck Trees and sues Trion lol

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    ste2000 said:


    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.

    Because you cannot win money?

    This is no different than physical or digital CCGs, and no one is trying to take them down yet. 
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,228
    edited November 2015
    ste2000 said:


    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.

    Because you cannot win money?
    Nope, it's in the grey area because you always get something from the boxes - it's more like a raffle with a guaranteed win. True, mostly "win" just crap.
    A more valid attempt was to take them from the money side (taxing), but you can't get real money from the boxes just some virtual items, which you can sell for virtual currency, it's still in the grey area...

    I think the title question is much more interesting than the lockbox crap. That's an easy one (saying this since years), just avoid them entirely. I just trash the dropped boxes right away, never buy keys, never buy lockbox items from the AH, etc. Don't support the lockbox gamble in any way, if you can :wink: 

    The title however... interesting topic. In the last few years almost every game countered external and shady goldseller sites by starting to offer legit, "official" gold selling. So yep, nowadays devs are indeed pushing you to buy ingame currency from them, since it's just free, additional income to their pockets. And to get two birds with the same stone most games are selling you ingame currency through lockbox keys, so with goldselling they're also fueling their lockbox gamble scam. Solution is easy again, just buy content and services for your games, and not the lockbox keys.

    edit, sorry during the rant I missed the question :wink: Sure, if you have the money and don't mind aiding the gamble scam in the game, then just buy the ingame money and get the needed item from the AH. I'd never do that, but to each their own.
  • JohnxboyJohnxboy Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Thing is, you probably wouldn't want that whatever mount if it "luck" and "rarity" wasn't the only way to get it. Think a lil, it's just another way to suck you in. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Po_gg said:


    The title however... interesting topic. In the last few years almost every game countered external and shady goldseller sites by starting to offer legit, "official" gold selling. So yep, nowadays devs are indeed pushing you to buy ingame currency from them, since it's just free, additional income to their pockets. And to get two birds with the same stone most games are selling you ingame currency through lockbox keys, so with goldselling they're also fueling their lockbox gamble scam. 
    This .. it is the opposite.

    The devs are killing the gold farmers at their own game. Devs can create as much currency as they want with no costs, and also the demand for it (with lock boxes, sales, and what-not).

    Gold farming is no longer a good business to be in. 
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,742
    My opinion .. ignore the gambling boxes and play the game for free. If some whales want to gamble, let them. 
    Exactly, well put
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    ste2000 said:


    I am quite surprise authorities didn't pick up on that yet.

    Because you cannot win money?

    This is no different than physical or digital CCGs, and no one is trying to take them down yet. 
    Mhhh?

    It doesn't matter if you win money or a flying pony, what you win is irrelevant.
    Anything that gives people a compulsory need to pay money in the hope of winning something they desire it is classified as gambling.
    If the person that wants to win the pony plays the game until he gets one, that's the same as someone that plays Slot Machines until they win big money.
    Both can cause addiction, and when an addiction involves money, that's called gambling.
    It is not rocket science.

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    edited November 2015
    boxes like that should be illegal to sell, at least unless they are sanctioned by official gambling authorities. thats my view on em.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,228
    Po_gg said:


    ....
    Gold farming is no longer a good business to be in. 
    It never was, but earlier they couldn't really fight it. Taking their market and offering a similar service was a clever move - but to be honest, I can't fully support it since I don't like the whole "ingame money for real cash" mechanic. Pulling the goldselling market into their hands is just like the end of prohibition was - getting rid of the shady and dangerous part, but not solving the real issue :wink:
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Po_gg said:
    Po_gg said:


    ....
    Gold farming is no longer a good business to be in. 
    It never was, but earlier they couldn't really fight it. Taking their market and offering a similar service was a clever move - but to be honest, I can't fully support it since I don't like the whole "ingame money for real cash" mechanic. Pulling the goldselling market into their hands is just like the end of prohibition was - getting rid of the shady and dangerous part, but not solving the real issue :wink:
    Whether you, a single individual, are supporting RMT is relevant to the market. Clearly there is such a market and it is doing quite well.

    Personally i don't see a problem as long as I do not participate. If someone wants to buy some pretty skin for their guns, or that p2w +1000 sword, who am I to disagree. It is a free world. I can always choose not to play a game if I think i am not enjoying it.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,323
    Yeah...blame the game for having to support RMT activity. I didn't even need to read the post to immediately laugh because any point following that is just stupid. ANYTHING devs put into their game can be acquired via in game means through work unless it cannot be gifted and if that's the case buy it or dont. But saying purchasing in game currency with real money via a third party outlet is justifiable is ludicrous. People will always do it though if its an option. If you already have a job you dont want to come home to a second one. With that mind set RMT will always exist.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Are you even allowed to buy anything with in-game currency anymore??

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

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