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Do you think forced-grouping could work if...

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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited November 2015
    A new mmo is either going to emphasize the future, or the past.

    Nostalgia marketing works great on certain people who believe the MMO best days are already behind them. That's a powerful pitch.

    Both approaches will net some cash. How much cash will depend more on the quality of the product than the quality of the marketing.

    I'm just not into re-playing old games. If I were, I'd choose MUDs; a much more verbal and imaginative "immersion" experience.
    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.

    Both "forced grouping" and what you could call "forced soloing" MMOs were originated in the past.  The difference is nobody has tried making a forced grouping MMO in the past decade.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772

    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.


    What are you talking about? Who is churning out wow-clones anymore? At least the western AAA devs have abandoned MMORPGs. They may make online games, but it is more likely to be a MOBA, shooter, even card games, before they will make wow-like MMORPGs.

    Heck, even Blizz is no longer making new MMORPGs. 
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,066
    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.
    Games like SW:TOR and ESO seem to do pretty well despite all the doomsayers...
    Not to mention games which aren't WoW clones like GW2.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited November 2015
    Vardahoth said:
    It worked really well in lineage 2. In fact the best experience parties were 9 man groups. That is one thing I miss about mmorpg's, grouping with people. Logging in and seeing who on your friends list is online and starting or joining a party. Or shouting in towns.

    Solo play is what killed mmorpg's.
    Guilds went somewhere?

    "I miss grouping" generally means someone who rejects grouping voluntarily (for whatever reason). And then gripes about it.
    They were called clans (and clans were able to form alliances). Depended on the clan. But the ones I were in were all about exploring and going all over the place.

    Most the time though, for exp parties I just had a friends list of about 80+ players from different clans. I logged in and whispered the ones to form a party, or would shout in town for what class I needed. Having parties with multiple clans involved formed some good friendships/alliances. So when clan wars were active, your friends could give away their locations.

    Of course I'm talking about Lineage 2 (2004 - 2006), and not the blasphemy it's called today.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,618
    SEANMCAD said:
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'
    NOBODY means forced, there has  never been a FORCED grouping game ever.

    I am sure Eve players will tell you "join a Corp",most games will say "join a guild",every single game has a NEED for grouping but it is never forced.

    Without mentioning the term forced,grouping would obviously have a benefit,it only makes sense,so just because it benefits you as a player it doesn't make it FORCED,it just makes it an intelligent decision to want to group.

    I don't know why people constantly make excuses why they shouldn't group,yet they have joined a MMO to game,,makes no sense what so ever.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,556
    edited November 2015
    Because MMO's are about far more than grouping. If you don't get that by now there is no hope for you.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited November 2015
    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.
    Games like SW:TOR and ESO seem to do pretty well despite all the doomsayers...
    Not to mention games which aren't WoW clones like GW2.
    That's 3 WoW clones (GW2 is definitely a WoW clone- if GW2 represents "new and different from WoW" to everyone, I fear for the future of ingenuity in MMOs) that are doing OK, after a couple of them went f2p.

    But they didn't do as well as expected (except GW2).

    And for those 3 there are many that didn't do well at all.

    Any way, my point is forced soloing MMOs are as much of a relic from the past as forced grouping ones are.  The difference is nobody has tried a forced grouping one in the past decade.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,556
    edited November 2015
    And no one has tried to mass market a horse and buggy set in the last decade either.

    I guess there is a chance it could work.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    And no one has tried to mass market a horse and buggy set in the last decade either.

    I guess there is a chance it could work.
    Last forced grouping game was ffxi in 2001. Most games copy WoW's forced soloing which started in what, 2003? Your analogy makes sense only if you think 2001 is ancient compared to 2003.
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited November 2015
    holdenhamlet said:That's 3 WoW clones (GW2 is definitely a WoW clone- if GW2 represents "new and different from WoW" to everyone, I fear for the future of ingenuity in MMOs) that are doing OK, after a couple of them went f2p.

    But they didn't do as well as expected (except GW2).

    And for those 3 there are many that didn't do well at all.
    This is baffling, when we're holding up games that stalled at 500k subs, then went into free-fall, as the paragons of virtue.

    Yet newer games, making far more money, are "failing." Would you think this might be because of necessary spin required to establish a Crisis that isn't there?

    Just restoring some perspective to this conversational drift.

    How's FFXIV doing? Oh, three times as well as XI ever did? But "not as well as expected" = "Fail," right?

    Hmm, XIV was the game declared dead, then resurrected. I wonder how that fits into this weird binary cosmology.
    Post edited by Antiquated on
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,066
    edited November 2015
    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.
    Games like SW:TOR and ESO seem to do pretty well despite all the doomsayers...
    Not to mention games which aren't WoW clones like GW2.
    That's 3 WoW clones (GW2 is definitely a WoW clone- if GW2 represents "new and different from WoW" to everyone, I fear for the future of ingenuity in MMOs) that are doing OK, after a couple of them went f2p.

    But they didn't do as well as expected (except GW2).

    And for those 3 there are many that didn't do well at all.

    Any way, my point is forced soloing MMOs are as much of a relic from the past as forced grouping ones are.  The difference is nobody has tried a forced grouping one in the past decade.
    I see that non-argument often, and it always make me smile... because there is no such thing as forced soloing.
    You can force people to group by making enemies not "soloable", but you can't force people to solo by making enemies not "groupable". Well, I can imagine a few ways to achieve that, but no sane developer would do that, and none actually did.

    Right now, I'm having a couple of "casual" rerolls in WoW on a French server, because some real life friends aren't good enough English readers to play on international servers, and we only play them together, grouped, be it for simple quests, or most of the times, for dungeons. We never play those characters solo. But it's OUR choice, it's not forced on us. So where's your "forced soloing" of WoW clones ? It does NOT exist. If you feel forced to solo in those games, then the problem is not the game, but you.

    And if GW2 is a WoW clone, then Asheron's Call was a WoW clone too.

    SEANMCAD said:
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'
    Very insightful post.
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited November 2015
    And yet practically every other month another solo-centric quest-based WoW-clone is churned out, only to fail.
    Games like SW:TOR and ESO seem to do pretty well despite all the doomsayers...
    Not to mention games which aren't WoW clones like GW2.
    That's 3 WoW clones (GW2 is definitely a WoW clone- if GW2 represents "new and different from WoW" to everyone, I fear for the future of ingenuity in MMOs) that are doing OK, after a couple of them went f2p.

    But they didn't do as well as expected (except GW2).

    And for those 3 there are many that didn't do well at all.

    Any way, my point is forced soloing MMOs are as much of a relic from the past as forced grouping ones are.  The difference is nobody has tried a forced grouping one in the past decade.
    I see that non-argument often, and it always make me smile... because there is no such thing as forced soloing.
    You can force people to group by making enemies not "soloable", but you can't force people to solo by making enemies not "groupable". Well, I can imagine a few ways to achieve that, but no sane developer would do that, and none actually did.

    Right now, I'm having a couple of "casual" rerolls in WoW on a French server, because some real life friends aren't good enough English readers to play on international servers, and we only play them together, grouped, be it for simple quests, or most of the times, for dungeons. We never play those characters solo. But it's OUR choice, it's not forced on us. So where's your "forced soloing" of WoW clones ? It does NOT exist. If you feel forced to solo in those games, then the problem is not the game, but you.

    And if GW2 is a WoW clone, then Asheron's Call was a WoW clone too.

    SEANMCAD said:
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'
    Very insightful post.
    If forced soloing doesn't exist than forced grouping doesn't exist either.  The key is to not take the term literally.
     
    You can solo in forced grouping games too.  Beastmaster for example was a totally solo job when ffxi was a completely forced grouping game.  But just like WoW is built to be played mostly solo, ffxi was originally built to be played mostly in a group.

    You and your friends would probably have a better time in a forced grouping game that was built around grouping since you're always in a group.  But yeah you can group in a forced soloing game just like you can solo in a forced grouping game... if you want.  But why would you want to?

    You're missing out on what the game is built for (soloing and occasional grouping in WoW or grouping and occasional solo in old ffxi).

    Most people in this thread are responding to the word "forced" more than what we're actually suggesting, which is a game focused on grouping instead of soloing.

    I mean yeah you can do dungeons together in WoW but the bulk of the game is solo questing.  I really doubt you guys do much of the quests together because that would just bore you to tears with how easy they would be to complete in a group (they're already almost too easy solo to begin with).

    So, sure, soloing isn't forced in Wow, but you need to solo if you want to experience the game the way it was built to be played.  In the same way grouping wasn't forced in old ffxi- but if you wanted to experience the bulk of the game- you needed to be in a group to do it.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,066
    You can solo in forced grouping games too.  Beastmaster for example was a totally solo job when ffxi was a completely forced grouping game.  But just like WoW is built to be played mostly solo, ffxi was originally built to be played mostly in a group.

    You and your friends would probably have a better time in a forced grouping game that was built around grouping since you're always in a group.  But yeah you can group in a forced soloing game just like you can solo in a forced grouping game... if you want.  But why would you want to?

    You're missing out on what the game is built for (soloing and occasional grouping in WoW or grouping and occasional solo in old ffxi).

    Most people in this thread are responding to the word "forced" more than what we're actually suggesting, which is a game focused on grouping instead of soloing.
    Please, don't make me laugh. You mention a specific class that can barely solo. Sorry, but the exception doesn't make a rule.

    And no, me and my friends would NOT have a better time in a "forced" grouping game, because we also enjoy soloing on other characters. The difference is we don't have to be forced to also group. We also group because it's FUN and it's OUR choice.

    Forced is exactly what it is: you have no choice. I don't want to log onto a damned "beastmaster" to solo when I feel like soloing, I want to do it on my favorite character. Same thing for grouping.

    You're clutching at straws...
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited November 2015
    You can solo in forced grouping games too.  Beastmaster for example was a totally solo job when ffxi was a completely forced grouping game.  But just like WoW is built to be played mostly solo, ffxi was originally built to be played mostly in a group.

    You and your friends would probably have a better time in a forced grouping game that was built around grouping since you're always in a group.  But yeah you can group in a forced soloing game just like you can solo in a forced grouping game... if you want.  But why would you want to?

    You're missing out on what the game is built for (soloing and occasional grouping in WoW or grouping and occasional solo in old ffxi).

    Most people in this thread are responding to the word "forced" more than what we're actually suggesting, which is a game focused on grouping instead of soloing.
    Please, don't make me laugh. You mention a specific class that can barely solo. Sorry, but the exception doesn't make a rule.

    And no, me and my friends would NOT have a better time in a "forced" grouping game, because we also enjoy soloing on other characters. The difference is we don't have to be forced to also group. We also group because it's FUN and it's OUR choice.

    Forced is exactly what it is: you have no choice. I don't want to log onto a damned "beastmaster" to solo when I feel like soloing, I want to do it on my favorite character. Same thing for grouping.

    You're clutching at straws...
    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    Or you guys could just stay on WoW and play it's half-assed small amount of group content.  Doesn't hurt me any, but for other people like me that actually enjoy entire games based around grouping, it would be cool for a new game focused on grouping to be made.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772

    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
    If such a game has a market.

    I agree there is no "forced" anything. Everyone is free not to play a game. But people forget devs are free to make whatever game too. They don't have to cater to those who want all grouping games.

    (To be fair, there are tons of all grouping pvp games like World of Tanks).
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756

    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
    If such a game has a market.

    I agree there is no "forced" anything. Everyone is free not to play a game. But people forget devs are free to make whatever game too. They don't have to cater to those who want all grouping games.

    (To be fair, there are tons of all grouping pvp games like World of Tanks).
    It's true, but I think there's a substantial market for it.  All forced grouping MMOs were successful (unlike all forced soloing games).

    FFXI had a steady 500k subs for like 5 years, and this was in the heat of WoW first being released.

    Yeah that's not WoW numbers but I'm sure there's a lot of studios that wouldn't mind 7.5 million in revenue a month for 5 years straight.  It's certainly much more than most forced soloing games get.


  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,066
    You can solo in forced grouping games too.  Beastmaster for example was a totally solo job when ffxi was a completely forced grouping game.  But just like WoW is built to be played mostly solo, ffxi was originally built to be played mostly in a group.

    You and your friends would probably have a better time in a forced grouping game that was built around grouping since you're always in a group.  But yeah you can group in a forced soloing game just like you can solo in a forced grouping game... if you want.  But why would you want to?

    You're missing out on what the game is built for (soloing and occasional grouping in WoW or grouping and occasional solo in old ffxi).

    Most people in this thread are responding to the word "forced" more than what we're actually suggesting, which is a game focused on grouping instead of soloing.
    Please, don't make me laugh. You mention a specific class that can barely solo. Sorry, but the exception doesn't make a rule.

    And no, me and my friends would NOT have a better time in a "forced" grouping game, because we also enjoy soloing on other characters. The difference is we don't have to be forced to also group. We also group because it's FUN and it's OUR choice.

    Forced is exactly what it is: you have no choice. I don't want to log onto a damned "beastmaster" to solo when I feel like soloing, I want to do it on my favorite character. Same thing for grouping.

    You're clutching at straws...
    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    Or you guys could just stay on WoW and play it's half-assed small amount of group content.  Doesn't hurt me any, but for other people like me that actually enjoy entire games based around grouping, it would be cool for a new game focused on grouping to be made.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
    The question remains, why do you guys need to be forced, when optional grouping works just fine. What's the difference between a game when you are forced to group, and a game where grouping is optional but efficient and where you can group non-stop if that's your choice ?

    I still think Sean got the answer to that question:

    SEANMCAD said:
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'

    And yourself pointed the main problem of forced grouping games:
    "You would in no way be "forced" to buy it."
    And guess what, that's what happens. Nowadays, players know better than to accept being forced into a single playstyle. That's why those games who make attempts at "old school forced grouping" fail.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,474

    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
    If such a game has a market.

    I agree there is no "forced" anything. Everyone is free not to play a game. But people forget devs are free to make whatever game too. They don't have to cater to those who want all grouping games.

    (To be fair, there are tons of all grouping pvp games like World of Tanks).
    It's true, but I think there's a substantial market for it.  All forced grouping MMOs were successful ~

    City of Heroes. Despite it having one of the first lfg tools, (which was simply a modified /who system that allowed you to add extra information.) I often found myself waiting around for a few hours to find something to do. Probably because I stuck to my guns with Empathy instead of hopping aboard the Pain Domination train. When you look back at it CoH barely lasted 8 years. That being said you could also say that 8 years is a success, and to that I would point out that Warhammer Online lasted 5 years. Do the extra 3 years make a difference?

    I still liked CoH, however not being able to do anything on your own kinda sucked.

    Moreover DFO competes with WoW, and that's definitely a "solo" game.
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Dullahan said:
    Nope. Its just about chasing the almighty dollar. People have been emulating the game that made megabucks for a decade, and I can tell you people did not change that much between '98 and '04. There also hasn't been a new game resembling those of the first gen in over a decade.

    Meanwhile, the games that have changed with the modern player are losing players faster than ever, so there goes that theory.
    Yes, it wasn't people changing.  People didn't change much at any point in MMORPGs' history.

    The only thing that changed was MMORPGs: they shifted to better reflect what people actually wanted out of a MMORPG (which meant being a lot more videogame-RPG-like, and less empty-sandbox-like.)  As a result, even "failed MMORPGs" nowadays have substantially larger audiences than the most successful early MMORPGs.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    You can solo in forced grouping games too.  Beastmaster for example was a totally solo job when ffxi was a completely forced grouping game.  But just like WoW is built to be played mostly solo, ffxi was originally built to be played mostly in a group.

    You and your friends would probably have a better time in a forced grouping game that was built around grouping since you're always in a group.  But yeah you can group in a forced soloing game just like you can solo in a forced grouping game... if you want.  But why would you want to?

    You're missing out on what the game is built for (soloing and occasional grouping in WoW or grouping and occasional solo in old ffxi).

    Most people in this thread are responding to the word "forced" more than what we're actually suggesting, which is a game focused on grouping instead of soloing.
    Please, don't make me laugh. You mention a specific class that can barely solo. Sorry, but the exception doesn't make a rule.

    And no, me and my friends would NOT have a better time in a "forced" grouping game, because we also enjoy soloing on other characters. The difference is we don't have to be forced to also group. We also group because it's FUN and it's OUR choice.

    Forced is exactly what it is: you have no choice. I don't want to log onto a damned "beastmaster" to solo when I feel like soloing, I want to do it on my favorite character. Same thing for grouping.

    You're clutching at straws...
    Or, they could introduce a modern MMO that catered to groups and you guys could log onto that when you wanted to group.  All of the content would be catered for grouping (not just dungeons).

    When you wanted to solo you could log onto WoW.

    Or you guys could just stay on WoW and play it's half-assed small amount of group content.  Doesn't hurt me any, but for other people like me that actually enjoy entire games based around grouping, it would be cool for a new game focused on grouping to be made.

    You would in no way be "forced" to buy it.
    The question remains, why do you guys need to be forced, when optional grouping works just fine. What's the difference between a game when you are forced to group, and a game where grouping is optional but efficient and where you can group non-stop if that's your choice ?

    I still think Sean got the answer to that question:

    SEANMCAD said:
    I think 'forced' in a game is a bad idea.

    basically if you have to 'force' people to group then there is something wrong with your group design and the answer is not to force people to do it but rather find ways to make it more appealing...or as more likely the case...somehow fix the toxic community which is usually not possible.

    'forced grouping' to me sounds like 'I am mean to people that that is why I dont have friends, they should make it a requirement for me to have more people to tick off'

    And yourself pointed the main problem of forced grouping games:
    "You would in no way be "forced" to buy it."
    And guess what, that's what happens. Nowadays, players know better than to accept being forced into a single playstyle. That's why those games who make attempts at "old school forced grouping" fail.
    "The question remains, why do you guys need to be forced, when optional grouping works just fine."

    It works just fine for you.  You're happy with WoW.  I'm not (and I'm not alone).

    To make a game that's solo-centric, you need to spend a lot of resources towards it.  I'd much rather play a game where those resources went towards group content and gameplay.

    You're wrong though- there have been no attempts to make an "old school forced grouping" MMO in the past decade.  And any attempts at making a forced grouping game have not failed, ever.

    The opposite is true for forced-soloing games (or what you would call "optional grouping" games).  Most of them have failed.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,146
    EQ2 failed till it added solo stuff. DDO added better solo ability to make it.  
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,146
    edited November 2015
    Grouping fails to group/solo games due to simple facts.  Off hours people can not find groups people leave game.  If the spread of players gets to heavy on one level/content area then new people can not find groups and leave.  Hoping that people will constantly reroll or "run" people through content enough to keep new people is fallacy.  With all the new games and ease of game hopping you can not risk someone logging in and unable to play.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    No such thing as forced grouping.

    If you don't like/want to group to play a game where it is required you have the choice to find a game that suits your likes/wants.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,066
    And any attempts at making a forced grouping game have not failed, ever.

    The opposite is true for forced-soloing games (or what you would call "optional grouping" games).  Most of them have failed.

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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