The Lack of Delivered Content

jmcdermottuk · November 2015

I pissed myself laughing at this. Lack of delivered content.

It's in development. It's not in beta or released, but in development. How can you expect content from a game that isn't even in a Beta test stage?

Put all the hooha about scams and money and timetables aside and what have you got? A game that's in development. You cannot reasonably expect sheduled delivered content from a game that's not even in Beta yet. Get real!

I swear, the IQ's on this forum are dropping rapidly.

Talonsin · November 2015

Erillion said:

That is not invented data. Its correct in the subset of backers personally known to me. It represents only my personal observation and personal estimate (see post above: ".....so my guestimate is ...." ).

I dont know if you are actually familiar with statistics but sample size is very important. Here is a link to help you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination

A sample size of 10 in a group of 500k is pretty much worthless.

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

Erillion · November 2015

Talonsin said:

A sample size of 10 in a group of 500k is pretty much worthless.

Its more a sample size of around 50 and i am not attempting to calculate the occurence of multiple accounts for the whole backer population. I only give my personal opinion based on personal observations.

http://www.research-advisors.com/tools/SampleSize.htm

For a confidence of 99 % and a rough estimate (5 % margin of error) in a "population size" of 1 million one would need a sample size of 663.

Have fun

TalulaRose · November 2015

TheYear1500 said:

Erillion said:

>>> We all know it's going to flop.>>>

No we do not.

>>>you might not want to keep your hopes that high>>>

My expectations are realistic. It is clear that with over a million fans that game simply cannot be 100 % suitable for 100 % of the people .. as some of their expectations are mutually exclusive. So yes, some will bitch and moan ... this is inevitable. Not everything will be 100 % fleshed out at launch. Not everything will be 100 % properly balanced at launch. But the more bugs WE the backer-testers find and report in alpha and beta during playtesting, the better.

Have fun

Why do you keep spreading this propaganda? You know better, they don't have a million fans, they have sold 792k accounts (with multiple people owning more then one account). That one million are just people that made accounts on the website, as CIG has given out free week codes multiple times, its a meaningless number.

No idea how your expectations are realistic when you can't even be realistic with facts.

That's what Erillion is paid to do. Post meaningless facts to bury anything negative about the game. Half-truths and meaningless stats presented in a certain way...."The Spin".

Brenics · November 2015

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Vrika · November 2015

Erillion said:

Talonsin said:

A sample size of 10 in a group of 500k is pretty much worthless.

Its more a sample size of around 50 and i am not attempting to calculate the occurence of multiple accounts for the whole backer population. I only give my personal opinion based on personal observations.

http://www.research-advisors.com/tools/SampleSize.htm

For a confidence of 99 % and a rough estimate (5 % margin of error) in a "population size" of 1 million one would need a sample size of 663.

I don't think sample size is the issue here, even a small sample brings usually good results if you manage to do a random selection or select a sample that represents the group.

Far larger problem is that Erillion is likely to know other active Star Citizen community members and players, who are much more likely to have multiple accounts than less active community members and players.

It's also questionable whether those Erillion's friends who have multiple accounts have told him about it honestly.

Talonsin · November 2015

Vrika said:

I don't think sample size is the issue here, even a small sample brings usually good results if you manage to do a random selection or select a sample that represents the group.

Far larger problem is that Erillion is likely to know other active Star Citizen community members and players, who are much more likely to have multiple accounts than less active community members and players.

It's also questionable whether those Erillion's friends who have multiple accounts have told him about it honestly.

To be quite honest, my opinion is he either works on or has a family member who works on this game project so he may have access to some actual data. I can not imagine anyone spending that amount of time and effort defending something they dont have a personal stake in.

GeezerGamer · November 2015

Erillion said:

Eternio said:

"1/3 of the backers have a second account"

hahaha gotta love invented data

That is not invented data. Its correct in the subset of backers personally known to me. It represents only my personal observation and personal estimate (see post above: ".....so my guestimate is ...." ).

Have fun

wait a minute......
"That is not invented data" =/= "It represents only my personal observation and personal estimate" ??????

Sounds like semantics to me. You still pulled it outta yer arse.

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

Azoth · November 2015

Brenics said:

Azoth said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

I am a fan, I don't bother with the shows tho. I tried arena commander a couple times. Now I am just patiently waiting for the finished game, the same way I am waiting for a couple other games.

Did you really watch a 3 hours show for a game you don't even believe will ever happen ? That's kinda pathetic, I now feel sorry for you.

Yep I watched it to see if it could change my mind on how I perceive the game. After watching Roberts body language it only reinforced my thinking on this so called game.

It is funny how you tell us to watch and learn about the game. Then when we do we are attacked for watching. Maybe you and people like you should be watching a little more and see what is actually being said and shown. 27 minutes during an over 3 hour live show on 2.0. you don't seem that is kind of strange when this is all about a game that is clearly not even in alpha which they say it is.

I really do believe if this was any other game CR would of been run out of town by now. With Roberts I just don't understand exactly what talent you see in him. Why he gets all these excuses for what he has been doing. It is like you guys look at him as a GOD in game making when he clearly isn't. It has always been the people working around him that created the games and yes that includes WC!

I don't remember telling you to go watch videos or learn about the game, I was actually happy when 2 months ago you said you were just walking away from all this. There is nothing sane about continuously posting the same negative stuff over and over. I never try to convince other people to like games/concept that I like.

I am not giving anyone a free pass, if SC doesn't happen, I will be pissed at CR like most people. I just don't throw a tantrum before the sky is actually falling. Why would you throw CR out of town yet ? It's not like other games never go thru delays, or change the scale of a game. Is there money being wasted ? Maybe. But what project never waste any money ? Just because it's people that gave that money doesn't magically make projects easier to manage.

/s I actually think Brad would make a better god than CR, at least Brad waste money on whores and drugs !

Turrican187 · November 2015

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

You are describing the Streisand Effect

Phaserlight · November 2015

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how great SC is and how good Christ Roberts is. The fanboism is strong in this thread.

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how much of a scam SC is and how criminal Christ Roberts is. The anti-fanboism is strong in this thread.

yea its not easy to have a decent conversation when you got two different extremists concentrating on a subject.

Well I'd like to think I'm not being extreme by demanding people back up their insinuations with actual factual evidence. I personally have no idea if SC is on track or a disaster, or any point in between, and I won't make the mistake of confusing my optimism that its probably doing as well as any MMO company can hope be, with cold hard facts, because I don't KNOW. I wish those in the extreme total optimism and total pessimism camps had that self awareness, as I feel both their behaviors are detrimental to the future health of this game.

I can't think of many instances where one would view having their position considered "extreme" a good thing. I think we would probably all like to think that we fall 'somewhere in the middle'.

As a proponent of logic, if you take a look at your several strawman arguments and tu quoque rejoinders throughout this thread, you may see why you tend to come off as a "fan".

Brenics · November 2015

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

LOL if you really have followed my posts then you know I already stated this, bad news has always been good marketing. No i didn't watch it to come into forums and trash it. I already said I went in with an open mind. Could CR change my mind about the game and the reason he has so many company's and how he is spreading the millions around, sure there is always that chance. I keep giving him the open mind but it always comes back with something smelling fishy.

Only problem I see is none of you are looking at this with an open mind. What CR says seems to be gospel to you. So yep at this time I guess we will always be on different sides of the argument.

It will be very interesting where CR goes from here, because you guys think he is on right track and I don't from just listening and watching what he does.

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

LOL if you really have followed my posts then you know I already stated this, bad news has always been good marketing. No i didn't watch it to come into forums and trash it. I already said I went in with an open mind. Could CR change my mind about the game and the reason he has so many company's and how he is spreading the millions around, sure there is always that chance. I keep giving him the open mind but it always comes back with something smelling fishy.

Only problem I see is none of you are looking at this with an open mind. What CR says seems to be gospel to you. So yep at this time I guess we will always be on different sides of the argument.

It will be very interesting where CR goes from here, because you guys think he is on right track and I don't from just listening and watching what he does.

This is a pretty stereotypical "you people" statement. If you've followed my post history I've told people that I wouldn't suggest putting money into the project right now. Wait for it. Also, I just mentioned earlier today that I felt like CIG would have difficulty scaling their revenues post-release due to the amount of people who pledged during crowdfunding.

So while you sit on your high-horse asking why "we" can't look at this with an open mind, I'd comment "Pot..... kettle....." We certainly could entertain insane theories, there are plenty of them on the Internet. However, logic dictates that there has to be supportive information, not speculative information.

Brenics · November 2015

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

LOL if you really have followed my posts then you know I already stated this, bad news has always been good marketing. No i didn't watch it to come into forums and trash it. I already said I went in with an open mind. Could CR change my mind about the game and the reason he has so many company's and how he is spreading the millions around, sure there is always that chance. I keep giving him the open mind but it always comes back with something smelling fishy.

Only problem I see is none of you are looking at this with an open mind. What CR says seems to be gospel to you. So yep at this time I guess we will always be on different sides of the argument.

It will be very interesting where CR goes from here, because you guys think he is on right track and I don't from just listening and watching what he does.

This is a pretty stereotypical "you people" statement. If you've followed my post history I've told people that I wouldn't suggest putting money into the project right now. Wait for it. Also, I just mentioned earlier today that I felt like CIG would have difficulty scaling their revenues post-release due to the amount of people who pledged during crowdfunding.

So while you sit on your high-horse asking why "we" can't look at this with an open mind, I'd comment "Pot..... kettle....." We certainly could entertain insane theories, there are plenty of them on the Internet. However, logic dictates that there has to be supportive information, not speculative information.

Funny I thought there was right out of Roberts mouth. he has made a lot I mean a lot of statements that do counter what he has said in the past. So can't we be logical about that?

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday?

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company.

Ok, so you're basing your opinion of the number of customers they have on how many concurrent people were watching a live feed? So what I'm hearing is that based on the concurrent number of viewers of a live stream, you have drawn the conclusion that it's more a money-laundering scheme than a real game company? Is that right?

Well, let me say that I did NOT watch the live stream yesterday, nor have I ever watched a live stream. So what does that mean in your case? I'm assuming Erillion did. So it might be fair to say that white knights and the cult of DS were both well represented. Beyond that, though, I really think that you're assessment is completely unfounded. See, if we were to use this logic then GTAV would be lying about their sales, since the concurrent hourly users peaks at just shy of 60k, yet their sales are shown as 3.3 million.

Logic..... so...... broken...

For a game that has pulled so much cash in from crowd funding i would expect a lot more to turn in to see what is being done with their money. Yes you could be right maybe watching a live stream on where the game is at may be jumping to conclusions that may not be true. But then can we really compare it to company's that have a proven track record to releasing. Where this has no record of ever releasing a game. At least with Roberts that clearly never released a game on his own. He was always surrounded by developers that would say no to him and to stay on track.

Lol, once again I'll giggle at this while looking at your signature of a $300M game that started alpha testing in 2009, didn't do beta until 2011, and then released in 2012 after being delayed. I'm really sorry, but your arguments are ALL OVER the place. Just in the last couple days you've complained about the lack of content being put out, the number of child companies they have, the fact that a child company is showing losses (after already being told this is intentional), then the track record of CR. All have been shot down using logical arguments, but you seem to just take them to another level whenever someone contests that.

On top of THAT, you're watching content that the VAST MAJORITY of backers, obviously, didn't watch. What? Just so you have some sort of ammunition to come to forums and trash it?

Here's a fun reality that is actually evidenced by a real, recent, event. So there's a saying that any press is good press. This is evidenced by the funding over the last few months right on the SC website. Huge spikes in monthly revenues. Similarly, there was a book released by a notorious, convicted, murderer in Canada back in June (A Mad World Order by Paul Bernardo). The guy is a horrible human being, really, and I'm surprised he's still alive in jail, to be honest. However, this book was released for 4 or 5 months before there was any major news coverage. Then on November 11th-ish I guess some people with pitchforks finally got wind of the book. They were calling for Amazon's head for listing the book on the kindle store. What's funny about this? Well, in the matter of 24 hours, the book went from zero reviews on Amazon.ca to nearly 500 (250+ on Amazon.com). On top of that, it shot up into the top 5 of all kindle books on Amazon.ca (top in the genre on Amazon.com). It's since been removed, so congratulations everyone. Unfortunately, in the process of causing an uproar, they spurred curious people to purchase the book, making Paul Bernardo a best selling author, lol. Plus, you know that whatever sales were made will be paid out, since they can't withhold that money.

So, yeah, keep talking... please! SC needs all of the funding it can get to continue development.

LOL if you really have followed my posts then you know I already stated this, bad news has always been good marketing. No i didn't watch it to come into forums and trash it. I already said I went in with an open mind. Could CR change my mind about the game and the reason he has so many company's and how he is spreading the millions around, sure there is always that chance. I keep giving him the open mind but it always comes back with something smelling fishy.

Only problem I see is none of you are looking at this with an open mind. What CR says seems to be gospel to you. So yep at this time I guess we will always be on different sides of the argument.

It will be very interesting where CR goes from here, because you guys think he is on right track and I don't from just listening and watching what he does.

This is a pretty stereotypical "you people" statement. If you've followed my post history I've told people that I wouldn't suggest putting money into the project right now. Wait for it. Also, I just mentioned earlier today that I felt like CIG would have difficulty scaling their revenues post-release due to the amount of people who pledged during crowdfunding.

So while you sit on your high-horse asking why "we" can't look at this with an open mind, I'd comment "Pot..... kettle....." We certainly could entertain insane theories, there are plenty of them on the Internet. However, logic dictates that there has to be supportive information, not speculative information.

Funny I thought there was right out of Roberts mouth. he has made a lot I mean a lot of statements that do counter what he has said in the past. So can't we be logical about that?

Sure, we can be logical about that, what are you referring to exactly?

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Turrican187 said:

You are describing the Streisand Effect

Sir, you just made my Friday. I've learned my one thing for the day. Never heard it called that before. The awesomeness is amplified because it's ACTUALLY after Barbara Streisand. I thought it might be about her nose, but.... guess not.

TalulaRose · November 2015

In summary: Still no game. Lots of promises, lots of money. Still no game.

TheYear1500 · November 2015

Erillion said:

TheYear1500 said:

Why do you keep spreading this propaganda? You know better, they don't have a million fans, they have sold 792k accounts (with multiple people owning more then one account). That one million are just people that made accounts on the website, as CIG has given out free week codes multiple times, its a meaningless number.

No idea how your expectations are realistic when you can't even be realistic with facts.

Someone who makes an registered account on a gaming webpage is NOT a fan ? Interesting. Why would they do that instead ? Masochistic pleasure ?

I said FANS, not backers. Try to understand the difference.

At the time of writing:
They have 792.022 pledge accounts that paid money (aka "backers"). And yes, some people have multiple accounts - judging by the people i know (a few dozen SC fans) about 1/3 of them, so my guestimate is about half a million individuals supporting the project.

They have 1.046.471 active "Star Citizens" with a registered account on the official homepage. What i consider a fan.

Feel free to show me where i get the facts wrong.

Have fun

Nope, they are interested in checking out the game for the free weekend.

Yep and you got FANS wrong, and you ended up being unrealistic with that number.

I have already shown you how you got the facts wrong, but heck don't let reality get in the way with your posts, its never stopped you in the past.

You are also making up the 1/3 number. So ya you are totally realistic about SC, haha.

Its really very funny, you are so desperate to defend SC that you actually made the situation worse for them. First, its not active "star citizens" just the number of accounts created, so again more propaganda from you. Then lets take you totally made up number of 1/3 into account and now CIG have even less fans then the 792k number I gave. Good job, you just proved your self wrong.

Arillix · November 2015

So @TalulaRose, [mod edit]

What may I ask do you call this?

<iframe src="http://player.twitch.tv/?channel=bod699" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" height="378" width="620"></iframe><a href="" style="padding:2px 0px 4px; display:block; width:345px; font-weight:normal; font-size:10px;text-decoration:underline;">Watch live video from Bod699 on www.twitch.tv</a>

Erillion · November 2015

TheYear1500 said:

First, its not active "star citizens" just the number of accounts created, so again more propaganda from you. Then lets take you totally made up number of 1/3 into account and now CIG have even less fans then the 792k number I gave. Good job, you just proved your self wrong.

First, "Active Citizens" is a direct quote from the official game website https://robertsspaceindustries.com/

Second, the 1/3 number is - and this has been clearly stated before - an observation in the subset of backers i personally know and a personal opinion and estimate. But you already knew that.

Third, the words "...CIG have even less fans then the 792k number I gave..." do not really make sense. I assume you mean that the actual number of individuals (in contrast to number of accounts) supporting the project is less than 792k, as some will have multiple accounts. THAT is a fact known since Kickstarter in October 2012 and not exactly a revelation.

Have fun

Brenics · November 2015

Erillion said:

TheYear1500 said:

First, its not active "star citizens" just the number of accounts created, so again more propaganda from you. Then lets take you totally made up number of 1/3 into account and now CIG have even less fans then the 792k number I gave. Good job, you just proved your self wrong.

First, "Active Citizens" is a direct quote from the official game website https://robertsspaceindustries.com/

Second, the 1/3 number is - and this has been clearly stated before - an observation in the subset of backers i personally know and a personal opinion and estimate. But you already knew that.

Third, the words "...CIG have even less fans then the 792k number I gave..." do not really make sense. I assume you mean that the actual number of individuals (in contrast to number of accounts) supporting the project is less than 792k, as some will have multiple accounts. THAT is a fact known since Kickstarter in October 2012 and not exactly a revelation.

Have fun

How do we know anything on their web site is truth? I don't take what is said on there as fact, just words.

Erillion · November 2015

Brenics said:

How do we know anything on their web site is truth? I don't take what is said on there as fact, just words.

Why stop at only a website ? Go for the REAL question !

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/now/question/216693-is-reality-real

Have fun

Amana · November 2015

Deleted post and banned spammer

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