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Bioware frauds players with 4.0.2 patch

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  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Gdemami said:
    Malabooga said:
    Gdemami said:
    Malabooga said:
    So now that "fraud" doesnt seem that far fetched any more huh?
    Game balance = fraud...yeah, not farfetched at all!
    They made companions WORSE than they were before the patch and 5+ levels ago.

    You should check "balance" in dictionary.
    Yes, it is still a balance change.

    You should ckeck fraud...
    Can i "balance" your wallet?
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    edited November 2015
    The official forums are on fire. I was about to give this game another try. 
    Give it a couple of weeks. They'll make adjustments again.
    They just have to find a good middle ground between the original 4.0 comps and today's.

    Besides, they're not the only devs to go overboard with the nerfbat. Just about every company out there does. Which pretty goes to show that the majority of devs don't bother to play their own games, they make their decisions entirely based on "metrics" - which are often highly skewed by the hardcore elite.
    "But other devs do it, too!" is not a defense.

    You don't justify or excuse poor behavior by pointing at similarly poor behavior. Also, what other devs do with their games isn't relevant to what Bioware is doing with SWTOR.

    Seriously, it's tantamount to the whole "if you see others jump off a bridge, does that mean you should, too?"




  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,036
    Pratt2112 said:
    Seriously, it's tantamount to the whole "if you see others jump off a bridge, does that mean you should, too?"
    Funny you say so because that is precisely what you are doing by jumping on that bandwagon of idiocy...
  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    edited November 2015
    I had said in another thread that I was glad to see Companion's abilities nerfed a bit. I had not seen the numbers, I just assumed everything would be reasonable... I was wrong.

    I had thought Bioware would have used a nerfbat.... instead they must have used one of them huge wooden twohanded Mallets the Army uses to drive fence stakes in for GP Large Tents or something... way over kill. Bioware may have just squashed the game they were trying to fix.

    I apologize if my previous statement seemed insensitive to some Players.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,496
    Pratt2112 said:
    The official forums are on fire. I was about to give this game another try. 
    Give it a couple of weeks. They'll make adjustments again.
    They just have to find a good middle ground between the original 4.0 comps and today's.

    Besides, they're not the only devs to go overboard with the nerfbat. Just about every company out there does. Which pretty goes to show that the majority of devs don't bother to play their own games, they make their decisions entirely based on "metrics" - which are often highly skewed by the hardcore elite.
    "But other devs do it, too!" is not a defense.

    You don't justify or excuse poor behavior by pointing at similarly poor behavior. Also, what other devs do with their games isn't relevant to what Bioware is doing with SWTOR.

    Seriously, it's tantamount to the whole "if you see others jump off a bridge, does that mean you should, too?"





    This is a common false argument - you are correct what othet companies have done is of no relevance. 

    However the original Fraud claim is still hard to take seriously. 
  • VaultFairyVaultFairy Member UncommonPosts: 566
    I can tell you yesterdays patch is going to lose them all those subs they FINALLY won back. A total faceplant once again by a company who, by now, should have its sh*t together.

    It is now 1:30am EST and I've been downloading their patch on a 15MB connection since 3pm and am still only at 27%. They have their speeds set back to 56k.

    Then of course, there's the knee jerk nerf. I really think they're trying to kill the IP so they can get out from under EA. It has to be the reason why they handle things so ineptly.
    Ergh! Don't get me started on that launcher! For the life of me i can never get the damn thing to download/install/update correctly.

    Would of been great to check out the new update for the companions but noooooooope.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    What was being farmed in these low level heroics that was being sold and now someone's cash cow needs some effort to continue farming?
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,603
    edited November 2015
    In my not so humble opinion the very idea of making a player reliant on an NPC companion to be successful in an MMORPG was a stupid thing to do in the first place. The ease of the game with healing companions is what made me uninterested in playing SW TOR in the first place. And now that players have had, what a month, to become even more entrenched in them by making them such a ridiculous security blanket people wonder why many players are pissed to have that blanket taken away from them? Get a clue Bioware ... oh wait ... not gonna happen.


    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    "I realized that my training was useful in less than ten percent of the calls, and saving lives was rarer than that. After a while, I grew to understand that my role was less about saving lives than about bearing witness. I was a grief mop. It was enough that I simply turned up."


  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    What was being farmed in these low level heroics that was being sold and now someone's cash cow needs some effort to continue farming?
    You see? This kind of ignorant posts are part of the problem.

    FYI, these heroics are part of main storyline, you have to farm them to raise reputation with your alliance with unknown cosequences to the future storyline if you dont.

    And you literally have to farm thousands of them (theyre capped for 1/week) if you have few alts.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Posts from the SwTor general forums.

    "Oh, I suppose if I went and smashed my head against the wall for 2+ hours, I might get lucky and muddle through it, but no thanks."

    "The companions WERE overpowered in most of the game.

    "Regular quests were a joke to complete. Most Heroics were as well, and while they're a bit more challenging now, they're easily still soloable as intended."

    "Well I did the H2 Starfortress tonight without the terminal buffs or the alliance abilities you pick up, with a rank 21 Lana, had no problems until the bit where you go from platform to plaftorm shutting down the reactor core and fighting oodles of adds while breaking the Exarch's shield. There I ran into 2 problems. First the adds were sometimes immune to my AOE attacks, and sometimes Lana would freeze in middle of room.
    Took me five tries but got past that. Final fight was a challenge but I killed the boss on my first go.

    I was running a Powertech Advanced Prototype spec in a mix of 216-224 gear. "


    So they can be done by 1 player + companion, just not everyone can with the latest change. Sounds like some people quickly got use to being OP and having the game on farm status.



  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Posts from the SwTor general forums.

    "Oh, I suppose if I went and smashed my head against the wall for 2+ hours, I might get lucky and muddle through it, but no thanks."

    "The companions WERE overpowered in most of the game.

    "Regular quests were a joke to complete. Most Heroics were as well, and while they're a bit more challenging now, they're easily still soloable as intended."

    "Well I did the H2 Starfortress tonight without the terminal buffs or the alliance abilities you pick up, with a rank 21 Lana, had no problems until the bit where you go from platform to plaftorm shutting down the reactor core and fighting oodles of adds while breaking the Exarch's shield. There I ran into 2 problems. First the adds were sometimes immune to my AOE attacks, and sometimes Lana would freeze in middle of room.
    Took me five tries but got past that. Final fight was a challenge but I killed the boss on my first go.

    I was running a Powertech Advanced Prototype spec in a mix of 216-224 gear. "


    So they can be done by 1 player + companion, just not everyone can with the latest change. Sounds like some people quickly got use to being OP and having the game on farm status.



    You do understand that is OP class in raid gear right? That classes are badly balanced? Doing stuff that drops 208 gear? Right? You are aware there are 6 of them and that SOME of them cant be done? Right?
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    DMKano said:
    Fraud is a bit extreme IMO - this is a game we are talking about right?

    If you read the EULA of any online game - the game company can make any changes at anytime to the game as they wish.

    It's there in black and white.

    How can this be fraud when all players agree to this before playing? 

    Yes you are right, we agreed to this, so technically we can not call it fraud. But think about it, a company makes public statement about a product to their customers, customers like see the statement and feature and decide to buy the product. Now a month later company goes ahead and changes the product feature completely and makes it less than what they stated before without discussing the customers or taking their feedback. Is this really ok? What it is if it is not fraud?

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,814
    I really dislike the idea of level sync. It completely trivializes the effort players put forth in leveling and developing characters. I didn't mind it, the way FFXIV and Rift did it, where I can opt in if I wanted. But forcing it? Why did I bother to level and gear up then?
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,496
    DMKano said:
    Fraud is a bit extreme IMO - this is a game we are talking about right?

    If you read the EULA of any online game - the game company can make any changes at anytime to the game as they wish.

    It's there in black and white.

    How can this be fraud when all players agree to this before playing? 

    Yes you are right, we agreed to this, so technically we can not call it fraud. But think about it, a company makes public statement about a product to their customers, customers like see the statement and feature and decide to buy the product. Now a month later company goes ahead and changes the product feature completely and makes it less than what they stated before without discussing the customers or taking their feedback. Is this really ok? What it is if it is not fraud?

    You can label it as dishonest, disappointing, disheartening etc..... it just isn't fraud.

    I personally abhor forced downscaling  (the main reason I don't play gw2), so I understand the upset over such a change.

    Still though let's call spade a spade.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,496

    I really dislike the idea of level sync. It completely trivializes the effort players put forth in leveling and developing characters. I didn't mind it, the way FFXIV and Rift did it, where I can opt in if I wanted. But forcing it? Why did I bother to level and gear up then?
    Right on.

    Again not to harp on GW2 too much but forced downscaling.... why? No, make it optional and I am a happy camper. 
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,204
    DMKano said:
    Pratt2112 said:
    The official forums are on fire. I was about to give this game another try. 
    Give it a couple of weeks. They'll make adjustments again.
    They just have to find a good middle ground between the original 4.0 comps and today's.

    Besides, they're not the only devs to go overboard with the nerfbat. Just about every company out there does. Which pretty goes to show that the majority of devs don't bother to play their own games, they make their decisions entirely based on "metrics" - which are often highly skewed by the hardcore elite.
    "But other devs do it, too!" is not a defense.

    You don't justify or excuse poor behavior by pointing at similarly poor behavior. Also, what other devs do with their games isn't relevant to what Bioware is doing with SWTOR.

    Seriously, it's tantamount to the whole "if you see others jump off a bridge, does that mean you should, too?"





    This is a common false argument - you are correct what othet companies have done is of no relevance. 

    However the original Fraud claim is still hard to take seriously. 
    Actually, what other companies have done is relevant. It is relevant in setting expectations. You may not like this practice, but it is common for MMO companies. It is unreasonable to assume that any specific company would NOT do this, when it is the norm.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before

    Or did they say you would still be able to solo them.


    This comment on the forums sums up the rage.

    "Already cancelled. Came back a few months ago after originally being a beta to live player. Enjoyed the 12x xp, liked KOTFE, but stuck around because the change in companion healing and usefulness really opened the game up for my casual approach to the game. Now that this is gone, so am I. "

    Insta leveling and trivial content - yes
    Anything that may take more than a second and require some effort - no


    Maybe the easy solution is to just get one more person. 2 players & 2 companions. But that would require a modicum of effort. And you would have to socialize with the rest of the people posting their rage.

    Who am I kidding, creating I quit/unsub posts is easier.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before

    Or did they say you would still be able to solo them.


    This comment on the forums sums up the rage.

    "Already cancelled. Came back a few months ago after originally being a beta to live player. Enjoyed the 12x xp, liked KOTFE, but stuck around because the change in companion healing and usefulness really opened the game up for my casual approach to the game. Now that this is gone, so am I. "

    Insta leveling and trivial content - yes
    Anything that may take more than a second and require some effort - no


    Maybe the easy solution is to just get one more person. 2 players & 2 companions. But that would require a modicum of effort. And you would have to socialize with the rest of the people posting their rage.

    Who am I kidding, creating I quit/unsub posts is easier.

    ooooh, smart guy.

    But nm, BW got their feedback. More than enough.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,603
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before

    Or did they say you would still be able to solo them.


    This comment on the forums sums up the rage.

    "Already cancelled. Came back a few months ago after originally being a beta to live player. Enjoyed the 12x xp, liked KOTFE, but stuck around because the change in companion healing and usefulness really opened the game up for my casual approach to the game. Now that this is gone, so am I. "

    Insta leveling and trivial content - yes
    Anything that may take more than a second and require some effort - no


    Maybe the easy solution is to just get one more person. 2 players & 2 companions. But that would require a modicum of effort. And you would have to socialize with the rest of the people posting their rage.

    Who am I kidding, creating I quit/unsub posts is easier.

    I remember the snarky posts aimed at the people who said this game was not doing well and was going to go FTP. That worked out well. I imagine Bioware will worry more about their precious bank account than in the callous wit of their defenders on web forums.
    "I realized that my training was useful in less than ten percent of the calls, and saving lives was rarer than that. After a while, I grew to understand that my role was less about saving lives than about bearing witness. I was a grief mop. It was enough that I simply turned up."


  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before

    Or did they say you would still be able to solo them.


    This comment on the forums sums up the rage.

    "Already cancelled. Came back a few months ago after originally being a beta to live player. Enjoyed the 12x xp, liked KOTFE, but stuck around because the change in companion healing and usefulness really opened the game up for my casual approach to the game. Now that this is gone, so am I. "

    Insta leveling and trivial content - yes
    Anything that may take more than a second and require some effort - no


    Maybe the easy solution is to just get one more person. 2 players & 2 companions. But that would require a modicum of effort. And you would have to socialize with the rest of the people posting their rage.

    Who am I kidding, creating I quit/unsub posts is easier.

    I remember the snarky posts aimed at the people who said this game was not doing well and was going to go FTP. That worked out well. I imagine Bioware will worry more about their precious bank account than in the callous wit of their defenders on web forums.
    According to these forums SwTor was suppose to be dead long ago. Seems to be doing mighty fine to me.

    Can never take anything on MMORPG.COM seriously. This is where every game gets bashed and is predicted to die a horrible death.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,603
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before

    Or did they say you would still be able to solo them.


    This comment on the forums sums up the rage.

    "Already cancelled. Came back a few months ago after originally being a beta to live player. Enjoyed the 12x xp, liked KOTFE, but stuck around because the change in companion healing and usefulness really opened the game up for my casual approach to the game. Now that this is gone, so am I. "

    Insta leveling and trivial content - yes
    Anything that may take more than a second and require some effort - no


    Maybe the easy solution is to just get one more person. 2 players & 2 companions. But that would require a modicum of effort. And you would have to socialize with the rest of the people posting their rage.

    Who am I kidding, creating I quit/unsub posts is easier.

    I remember the snarky posts aimed at the people who said this game was not doing well and was going to go FTP. That worked out well. I imagine Bioware will worry more about their precious bank account than in the callous wit of their defenders on web forums.
    According to these forums SwTor was suppose to be dead long ago. Seems to be doing mighty fine to me.

    Can never take anything on MMORPG.COM seriously. This is where every game gets bashed and is predicted to die a horrible death.
    Oh totally agree, but it looks like SW TOR is taking quite the pasting on their own forums, which I think is quite a bit different.
    "I realized that my training was useful in less than ten percent of the calls, and saving lives was rarer than that. After a while, I grew to understand that my role was less about saving lives than about bearing witness. I was a grief mop. It was enough that I simply turned up."


  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    edited November 2015
    filmoret said:
    This thread is proof that the general public wants easymode mmo's.  He's mad cuz he cant solo the group content of the game.  I'm not saying the nerfs were good but if you were able to solo all the group content then they did need nerfs.
    Umm..no...you did not read anything, did you? The group content in question are 20 to 30 level below us. We should be able to solo them with ease but with level sync in place we are being dumbed down to content level and it was officially stated that we will still be able to solo them with ease just like we did before with the companion changes they added. 1 month later they nerf the companion and we can not solo content that is 20-30 level below us. This is an insult to players, we did not spend hours upon hours leveling and gearing just  to die in the hands of bunch of mob 30 level below us.
    So would you give up the level synced gear rewards you are getting from these zones in return for soloing them with ease?  I thought the whole point of level syncing was to give high level players more options for challenging content to play not to allow them to face roll anything they want and get useful rewards for doing it.

    I have no doubt that BioWare overreacted and took the nerf to far but the idea that one person should be able to do these with "ease" just seems to negate the whole point of level sync in the first place.  If they wanted that why not just leave the zones as they where?  Why go though the trouble of implementing level sync if you are not going to challenge players at least a bit in these zones to complete them?  When I think level synching I think it's a good opportunity to turn full group zones into duo or small group zones or maybe solo zones for players with decent gear and good play techniques.
  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    edited November 2015
    These are weekly ish dailies.  They aren't raids, if you want challenging content go to nightmare operations, side track questing systems are supposed to be easy.  Previously with the buffed companions all the quests were worth about 6 hours time if you did them all in a week, now it is far far more probably double if you % the nurf to time ratio correctly.

    In the words of a famous woman "I don't got no time for that".  Especially for a side option quest system.

    This is the first game to make dailies "challenging" f that.  

    FYI Challenging Content isn't content that makes you watch and grind the HP bars, challenging content makes you think and react which engages the brain not shit yourself if your going to make it in the same scenario over and over and over 4-6 quests per planet.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,136
    So here's what I take away from this mostly,  it sounds like all the people that liked to solo around in an MMO doing group content using their companions to replace grouping with real players cant do that anymore?  Or did I miss something.  I don't play it much so sorry if I missed some other underlying point.
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