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Will you admit that you were wrong ?

IKShadowIKShadow Member UncommonPosts: 783

I wonder how many fanbois and "hatebois" will admit that they were wrong about Dark and Light.

What will you "hatebois" do if Dark and Light turn out to be great at release ( or week or two after it ).
( or at least functional and fun to play )
IMO for DnL should have:
- Client/Server stable
- Client optimised for higher FPS
- Have more terrain/character details
- Combat animation
- Working skills and attribs
- Crafting
- Repair option
- Housing ( for storage or at least storage at villages/towns)
- Quests
- Ground to air combat
( I ignored already implemented SoG features )

All other announce features can be implemented in during next few months.
(siege weaponary, merriage, air to air combat, etc ...)

In that case will you admint that you was wrong for unnecessary forum troll etc...

This apply only for real fanbois who defend the game/farlan at any cost.

And blineded "fanbois" will you open your eyes if Dark and Light is postopned for few months or most of features listed above missing.
This apply only for real fanbois who defend the game/farlan at any cost.

Personaly I hope that at release we will get functional game with listed features.
About farlan/np3 the only thing i hate is no communication, currently AD Serpico is doing good job and releasing new info.
About pioneers and new preoders: NO ONE WAS SCAMED.
Pioneers have the right to be disapointed couse game was hyped a lot and when SoG was released everyone saw at what crappy state it was.

Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]

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Comments

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by IKShadow

    What will you "hatebois" do if Dark and Light turn out to be great at release ( or week or two after it ).



     

    I will see a proctologist, because I am sure that all of those pigs flying out my butt will hurt.

    There is no miracle patch or miracle version. If they had it SoG players would be getting it. If you were trying to sell your auto, you would at least wash it and get all the McDonalds bags from the rear floorboard wouldn't you? They are trying to sell the game, they will surely have their best version on display. Nothing else would make a bit of sense.

     

    I miss DAoC

  • blacksacblacksac Member Posts: 1,045

    My take on this, and I've said this to Jack before

    If it doesnt work out we ALL lose!!! (Jack my prefer this senario, he's a bad one that Jack image )

    If it does work out we ALL win!!! (Thats what I'm hoping)

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by blacksac

    My take on this, and I've said this to Jack before
    If it doesnt work out we ALL lose!!! (Jack my prefer this senario, he's a bad one that Jack image )
    If it does work out we ALL win!!! (Thats what I'm hoping)



    We have already lost Black. Bugs that were in the beta a year ago are still present with 2 months left before launch because the database is laggy and corrupts itself. They have already toned back the textures to try and get the game to run decently on average computer to where it looks like crap close up and it still does not run worth a damn. They can't even get skills and stats to work correctly for the basic gameplay so combat is a joke. All they have are graphics that look good at a distance and their transportation system which is really cool. Their one server concept gags and pukes when there are more than 1000 or so players logged in, that isn't a problem now because at peak they might have three or four hundred.

    I could go on about the "quest" system being a joke, the political and housing systems never even been tested and other features that are standard fare in the typical MMORPG being either bugged or not even at test stage yet but why bother. They can't even get the basics working, let alone that fantasy of a FAQ they still have posted. It is a dead game walking Black, wake up and smell the coffee.

    They should have worked on the basic gameplay and optimizing their database code for the last three years and then implemented the large world and fancy transport system but they went about it ass backward and bit off more than they could chew. Now they/we are screwed. This game is dead bubba and all their forums cleansing over there and shady sales techniques will not save it. Word is out on the street that the game is shit and posting your screenshots all day long will not change that.

    I miss DAoC

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    First of all your second sentence blows the whole thread for me :

    or at least functional and play is fun

    already lowering the standard for the public to judge this game.

    The things you listed as what is not already there -- do you honestly believe it will be implemented, tested, tweaked and tested again all within 2 months?

    Do you honestly believe there is a super-secret-fantastical-blow-you-away-functional-working-seperate whole game of DNL behind the scenes?

    And again, you allow for low standards when you state - "added within a few months"  after release. That kind of release was acceptable as the "norm" a few years back, doesnt cut it nowadays. More players in the mmorpg are demanding much more and getting it with the many new games coming out. Recent releases (altho not your cup-of-tea mayhaps) prove that a successful release includes months and months of testing - closed beta , even after the devs have done their testing. A game releasing nowadays is just waiting for the release date. I could name 3 off the top of my head that are in quality release state right now , they simply are waiting for the days to go by for announced release date. Servers are stable, content is in, npcs, crafting, mobility, quests, housing, and alllll the little extras with it are all in working order and fine jobs they did at that. You again are allowing for low standards and continuing with the "this game was released in bad condition" is not an up to date comparable for all the other games releasing within the month, two months and in one case, dang near release ready 4 months in advance!

    DNL isnt even close. Simply because it releases doesnt make a game. Again, all of the above has to be there, in working order, in order for you to call it a release. Otherwise you are simply releasing a Beta stage 3 game and calling it complete.

    As far as scammed? (correct spelling btw). The simple fact of the no-refund is a scam in itself. I wont go into that huge hullabulloo in this thread but the refund limit is indeed a slimy move and is a scam. What other game out there makes a deadline for refund on a game that is not even released yet? What other game out there takes your money UPFRONT , before the game is shipped? NONE. Even retailers know - you do not charge until delivery. Simple fact.

    And JD, I agree with you once again -- why not show your "sunday school best" when trying to sell a game? Selling it on a poor malfunctioning "separate" alpha/beta makes no sense and as you can see, already scared more than half the player base away. There is NO miracle DNL waiting in the wings. This is DNL.

     

  • NaarNaar Member UncommonPosts: 165

    Shadow let me get straight to the point:

     The present lack of features/content/progress/communication/etc is as effects of the underlying cause: NP3 have no idea what they are doing...period. The fact is they have done such a poor job throughout the development of this game that they have sabotaged their own game. It's not only their shody code that has caused all the problems either..They're approach to testing is borderline insanity.

    After all these years of spitting in face of their fans, they have lowered the bar so far that now people would have an orgasm if they add any crappy, untested content at all. Blacksac has been around DnL almost as much as me except that he chooses to ignore the writiing on the wall. Most of the people following DnL now have only the actions of the past couple months to judge the Devs and game so I don't blame them for having hope.

    The people who were DnL biggest fans have pretty much either left or joined AD image I also think it's amusingthat you have Community reps telling people that SoG is NOT Beta when they have only been around for 3 months and were never even IN the Beta...morons.

    image

  • RedRabRedRab Member UncommonPosts: 280

    Jackdog, Cholayna and Narr have pretty much covered it. Might as well light the gas at the crematorium now and buy in the booze for the wake.

    “Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
    William S. Burroughs

  • jssand2jssand2 Member Posts: 65


    Originally posted by Cholayna
    First of all your second sentence blows the whole thread for me :
    or at least functional and play is fun
    already lowering the standard for the public to judge this game.
    [

    You hit the nail on the head here - OP starts out saying the game plays fine... then moves on to a few weeks after release.... then slides into a at least functional mode.

    I think most of us realize that this game is going nowhere


  • IKShadowIKShadow Member UncommonPosts: 783

    Let me explain what I belive.

    The fact is that DnL have very slim to none chance to be perfect with all announced features at release. (27.April 2006)

    Devs have internal server for testing new features and a lot of those wont be implemented in SoG. We all know that test on internal server is not the same if few thousand people is testing it, so which ever features they dont implement in SoG or closed beta server ( atm there is no close beta ) will need to be fixed after release.

    Anyone can see that NP3/Farlan is doing all newbie mistakes that was acceptable few years ago, and I dont belive this will change soon.

    I belive that DnL will be very good game let say at end of the year 2006 if they release it at announced date 27.April. The only problem is if they can support it without going under.

    Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by IKShadow

    Let me explain what I belive.
    The fact is that DnL have very slim to none chance to be perfect with all announced features at release. (27.April 2006)
    Devs have internal server for testing new features and a lot of those wont be implemented in SoG. We all know that test on internal server is not the same if few thousand people is testing it, so which ever features they dont implement in SoG or closed beta server ( atm there is no close beta ) will need to be fixed after release.
    Anyone can see that NP3/Farlan is doing all newbie mistakes that was acceptable few years ago, and I dont belive this will change soon.
    I belive that DnL will be very good game let say at end of the year 2006 if they release it at announced date 27.April. The only problem is if they can support it without going under.



    a couple of points

    1. no one expects perfect in a MMORPG, however SoG goes far beyond  the acceptable

    2. You will understand if I am not impressed with the devs "internal" testing if SoG is any example

    3. What can they accomplish in 9 or ten months. SoG is a result of around 4 years worth of efforts

    I miss DAoC

  • IKShadowIKShadow Member UncommonPosts: 783

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Jackdog

    a couple of points

    1. no one expects perfect in a MMORPG, however SoG goes far beyond  the acceptable
    Even the well known publishers/devs had problems at release with bugs and missing announced features..
    ( SoE -> SWG, PlayNC -> Lineage 2, Blizzard -> WoW )
    DnL is not released yet and Iam almost shure that Farlan/NP3 will have even bigger problems.

    2. You will understand if I am not impressed with the devs "internal" testing if SoG is any example
    Me neither so what ? I only stated this couse people belive that all features they test now are directly integrated in SoG.

    3. What can they accomplish in 9 or ten months. SoG is a result of around 4 years worth of efforts.
    That realy depends, couse the biggest problem with making mmorpg is game enigne, once this is done everything else is quite easy, but demands man power.
    Let say if you now buy MMORPG game engine from any already released MMO all you have to do is implement new graphics, change some game mehanics rules, write down some content/quests and you are ready for release. ( Thats why there is so many MMO clones like Silkroad, Rose online etc...)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I for once will support this game to bitter end or success whatever it will be, but Iam not a blind fanboi who will defend the game and post arround how great it is etc ...
    Some of us can have fun even with SoG and dont get frustrated that easy others are fanbois who will play it and blindly belive it how everything would be magicly fixed very soon and that kind of people will becom biggest "hatebois" if/when game does not deliver.

    I will try to have fun, SoG/DnL can disappoint me only if they go under.
    If I get bored with it I will play someting else and check it after a while to see if anything new happend-

    I support that truth must be told and its stupid that some of fanbois promote and defend it like nothing is wrong couse they are just creating more "hatebois"

    I would not recommend SoG to anyone that get fustrated easy and are not aware of all missing features and bugs.

    Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]

  • RedRabRedRab Member UncommonPosts: 280

    **I would not recommend SoG to anyone that get fustrated easy and are not aware of all missing features and bugs.**

    All I can say is IKShadow you have a strange concept of fun. Do you read De Sade perchance, or enjoy a few hours on the tower-of-power at your local BDSM chamber? Personally I play games for enjoyment and relaxation not to struggle with, and persevere through, some bug ridden pile of doo in the hope it just may be ok at some indeterminate time in the future. I'd rather strap on a cilice and engage in some really enjoyable self-mortification than put myself through the SoG 'experience', but hey that's me...Maybe I just can't take the pain? Let me kiss the gunner's daughter anytime in preference to Farlan's dodo droppings.

    It also amuses me that the dictionary definitions of dodo are:

    1. A large, clumsy, flightless bird (Raphus cucullatus), formerly of the island of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean, that has been extinct since the late 17th century.

    2. One who is out-of-date, as in dress or ideas.

    3. A stupid person; an idiot.

    Oh, the irony...

    “Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
    William S. Burroughs

  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,350
    People that played the beta, and gave an honest opinion about the profesionality of DnL, will not have to admit they were wrong... ever. That you call them "Haters" says more about you... than them.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • AlouisiousAlouisious Member Posts: 201

    I can see IKShadow is still stuck on the "other games released like crap". Cholayna, JackDog and Zippy are all correct. That was the normal acceptable release YEARS ago. You keep trying to compare a crappy release of DNL with some of the top games currently. So many differences that Farlan cant even hope to compete with.

    Number 1 being staff. A staff of 100 is normal, working on a game before release. And thats 100 for the entire production period!

    Number 2 is experience. Those games you mentioned were the first generation out. Crappy releases yes but not even close to how DNL is right now, so close to their own release.

    Number 3 ties in with 1&2 - experience. You need experienced full fledged team members throughout the entire production.Farlan has bits and pieces and basically laymen to provide the knowledge. Hardly even close to what the other games had even in their infancy!

    Number 4 - I cant confirm - Money. Making a mmorpg takes millions of dollars for an extended period of time. Investors are loathe to shell out money on a "revolutionary" concept without concrete results. Its obvious Farlan cant/hasnt provided the confidence to the biz end in order to raise and keep the money bags rolling.

    Number 5 - Tangible Results - there are none. Even recent events (the egg hunt) they messed up spells and pets again. Mayhaps to help ppl find the eggs (dont see the reasoning in that but this is what is being shoveled over at DNL forums) but they needed to disable features in order to do this. That is not a tangible result. The engine is still unstable. The servers are unable to handle a mere fraction of what a true M(assively)M(ulitplayer)O(nline) game could and is designed to do.

    With that comes the content, skills, etc etc yada yada that goes with an MMO. Releasing an unfinished game with promises of features to come at a later date is a huge mistake. Again, basing the releases on the ones that have been out now for 4 and 5 years is ridiculous. Its not even in the ratio. They were released in MMO infancy and since the biz has had a chance to expand astronomically. WIth the influx of more and more ppl on the internet, more and more games coming out since and in the future, the demand for smooth, complete, content and feature filled games is almost too much for even current mega production staffs.

    If DNL releases as an unfinished, untested (and no, there are no internal testings, closed betas, etc , etc going on) gold release, many would not even consider playing it.

    Its best and has been since the release of SOG, if Farlan would simply say, we are closing this and keeping our current player base as true testers. When we get it together, we will again provide the community with a fun, enjoyable and blow you away game. Saving themselves and the game itself. They would certainly improve their credibility in the community if they showed a professional attitude towards all.

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604
    well said.
  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Touche' Harafnir!

    Our opinions have already been proven. There is no admitting to wrong.

  • AmegashieAmegashie Member UncommonPosts: 289

    It's weeks until release and their database isn't working. That ends this discussion right on the spot.

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524

    If DnL releases without most of the much hyped and promised features, I'll consider it a collossal failure. Right now, after seeing SoG, I merely consider it the game that never was and probably never will be. While I could be wrong, I don't think they meant to scam people. What they've done, however, is to make 9K people victims of their incompetence to produce the game they promised.

    I'm not a harsh judge and I don't have unrealistic expectations, but when a company announces that particular features will be launched with their product and then take people's money... well, they've made a contract, haven't they? At least make sure most of those features exist. I didn't send them any money because I didn't and still don't think they can produce a viable game any thing like what they've described over the past several years. Seeing SoG in action only confirmed my initial decision. If, by some small chance, they pull it off, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. Why would I? It would be a win/win situation, no?

  • AlouisiousAlouisious Member Posts: 201

    Yep and considering the smoke and mirrors this company is so famous for --- releasing the game without was promised is not in the equation.

    Any fool can "release" a game -simply because its "released" doesnt make ppl wrong -- it has to have what it promised it would at release. And dude, that just aint gonna happen.

  • deggilatordeggilator Member Posts: 520


    Considering the state of SoG and the slow bug-fixing process, I highly doubt that DnL will include a stable version of its advertised features.

    Currently playing:
    * City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
    * City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524


    Originally posted by deggilator

    Considering the state of SoG and the slow bug-fixing process, I highly doubt that DnL will include a stable version of its advertised features.

    Since you're one of the people here whose opinions I actually respect, deggilator (despite your youth), and you have a Marvin the Martian avatar:

    Is it still in that bad of shape? I could barely stand it when I got my SoG thingy so I removed it from my computer in a hissy fit. (I really have to learn to control my hissy fits) That was back during the first few days of SoG. Has there been any progress at all? Have they, at least, announced or indicated they'll be pushing the release date back? Sorry, for the questions but I don't read their board anymore... it makes me think bad thoughts when I do. I have mostly written this game off like I did a while back with Mourning... is there any reason at all why I shouldn't have it surgically wiped from my memory?

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by Signe


    Is it still in that bad of shape? I could barely stand it when I got my SoG thingy so I removed it from my computer in a hissy fit. (I really have to learn to control my hissy fits) That was back during the first few days of SoG.


     

    Hehhe can't believe you actaully bought it. Not only were you warned here by beta testers but I know you were warned over at F13 also. Just had to throw that $60 bucks away didn't you LOL.

    I miss DAoC

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524

    Oh, I didn't buy it... it was a freebie. I was one of those who accidentally clicked too fast when they went up and actually got one. ::::19::

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by Signe

    Oh, I didn't buy it... it was a freebie. I was one of those who accidentally clicked too fast when they went up and actually got one. ::::19::



    Well if you threw a hissy over a free one you would have probably had a stroke and died of terminal diarrhea if you had payed money then LOL

    I miss DAoC

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524

    Well, to be fair... it was REALLY frustrating trying to get my character to do ANYTHING!

    Honestly, it's not the money that irritates me into having hissy fits. It's the dishonesty and duplicitious nature of it all. I'm not singling out DnL specifically, but we've seen this sort of thing before. Mourning is a good example a lot of people have brought up.... they took money and then basically ran off with it. Now they're back and seemingly trying to do it all over again. There are even about a dozen people who seem to be giving them another go.

    And what about Horizons? It may not be exactly the same thing, but look at all the promises made and look at what they have now, what is it... 2 years later? I checked out a trial of it and, besides a new race, not much has been delivered. Same bugs, same issues... it's even hard to find a mob to kill. I played that game for a while and I remember contributing my construction skills to open and new area and when we did... what did we find? A crash... they hadn't actually finished it. Our server was down for ages, too. What pissed me off the most, was they knew what would happen and let us continue wasting our time.

    Anyway, that's the sort of stuff that annoys me. I don't know if DnL is exactly the same sort of thing, but they don't seem to have done much to reassure their supporters by releasing SoG into their midst.

  • AlouisiousAlouisious Member Posts: 201

    LOL You sound like one of the other posters here.

    I still have an account - a pioneer - and yes its that bad. I log on, or try to, when there is news of a fix or an event that ultimately results in my crashing episode to end my 15 mins of play for the day.

    yes its that bad. And yes, there is less and less players every day and yes they say there are less problems with the logins and permabugs but that is simply because everybody is dropping out in frustration and yes there is still no content and yes the skills arent fixed and yes the pvp is incredibly unbalanced and full of bugs itself. It seems as tho all they do is is try to make the graphics better, period.

    You can only fly around so much. You can only admire the scenery so much. If you like a flight simulation its good but nothing else is.

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