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Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

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  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Minuszer0 said:
    Most of this is fairly inaccurate.

    1.  Nothing new about this.  It has never not been this way.

    2.  This is almost entirely false.  The longer you've played Eve the more diverse you are, but there's a hard limit on the number of skill points that can be applied at any given time.  Engagement envelope is the single most important factor, and that's largely based on ship choice and fitting decisions - not SPs (at over 120 million, I most commonly solo PvP in T2-fit tech 1 frigates and the occasional T2 frigate.  Training a newb to 95% of my current efficacy in these ships would not take long at all). 

    3.  I'll give you the learning curve.  Problematically, this is part of why people believe 2 to be true.

    4.  Plenty of aspects of Eve work just fine solo.  You can't hold Sov, perhaps, but you also can't do at-level raids solo in other games.

    5.  Not really sure how this matters to the type of player you're largely talking about (Solo carebears). 

    6.  "I'm mad at the game because I did something stupid, bloobloobloo!"

    7+8.  See 2.  You don't have to "catch up" - the efficacy model simply does not work that way.  This is baggage that people bring with them from other games, where you "level up" and each subsequent level is objectively stronger than the last.  Every new Eve player thinks they need to "level up" from a frigate to a cruiser to a battleship, because that most closely approximates what they are used to.  Then they get into their battleship, and I come along in a frigate and reduce it to scrap for lulz.

    Really, the more salient contributing factors are likely:

    -It's now possible to effectively train alts on a single account, reducing much of the need for a second account for people who want a trained alt. 

    -Lots of butthurt about capital ship jump fatigue and sov changes.  Especially given that capital ship pilots are often specifically trained alts, the devaluation of capital ships has likely lead to some alts that are less frequently logged in or unsubbed entirely.
    Okay well most of it is inaccurate to you because you are # 5 in my example as I will point out in a moment. But first to answer your questions.

    1. Yes this is new EVE was a place where there was a place for PVE players who wanted to exploit safe High Sec space and did for a long time and where manufacturers and traders and made money as brokers. You call them "Care Bears" because the choice of game that EVE made available to them that they chose to play was NOT PVP.  I'm sorry but this was a viable choice for a long time and people enjoyed messing with the economy and working with the Null Sec Corps to control the prices of rare metals etc by brokering them and letting the Null Sec people do what they did best which was PVP in Null sec.

    2. You use your # 7 to illustrate my point. Because you have way more skill points you reduce them to scrap in a frigate and you have done the spreadsheet required mathematics that someone in your Corp taught you. If you most commonly PVP in a T1 Frigate I have no idea why or where you are fighting and given the advantages of every tier 2 frigate over a tier one you are either tackling with a substandard frig or don't have a reimbursement policy for using a fast t2 to tackle with. Either way your are going to die fast if you are fighting in a fleet engagement. If not then whoever is fighting you in low sec space ought to be owning you with drones.

    3. We agree. The learning curve without a corp or friends is nigh unto impossible to learn. Spreadsheets only teach you so much. 

    4. Given the learning curve NONE of EVE works fine solo as you get GANKED out of existence without someone to teach you. Playing solo in High Sec Space is a sure way to die as pointed out by MANY people who have posted here. That's what happens when you party naked and do not post a guard is a saying of many people that mine. 

    5. People just like you! People that think anyone playing EVE except the way you play it are care bears and thus lesser human beings and not deserving of playing the game. CCP has finally agreed with you and look what happened their numbers dropped. All those Carebears, Mission Runners, and Miners, in high sec space punched eject.

    6. No I'm Really mad cause nobody explained to me that people could do this cause nobody reads the TOS. In MOST games this is against the rules. CCP celebrates players getting screwed. This is NOT a good way to entice NEW players. Don't care if they were dumb or not. I see a game where this happens I am not going to play if the developer is encouraging an exploit or in the Case of Band of Brothers the Developers is found to be actively cheating to help them.

    7&8. Your arguments here are ridiculous and don't hold water as you point out yourself. I cannot keep up with my friends who are now flying capitals if I am not in game or just paying for my account and updating skills. EVE is Pay to WIN or Pay To Advance.

    All of that said. Eve can be a dynamic and fun place to PVP and you can have a blast after about $150.00 investment. That's about a year in game. But the PVE aspect of the game is gone. NULL-SEC is Controlled by Big NAP's and is no Longer the War-Zone it constantly was. Rooks and Kings are the best example of what EVE can Be for a person who wants to PVP go google their videos. They truly play Null Sec PVP as it Used to be.

    image
  • Minuszer0Minuszer0 Member UncommonPosts: 54
    edited October 2015
    Okay well most of it is inaccurate to you because you are # 5 in my example as I will point out in a moment. But first to answer your questions.

    1. Yes this is new EVE was a place where there was a place for PVE players who wanted to exploit safe High Sec space and did for a long time and where manufacturers and traders and made money as brokers. You call them "Care Bears" because the choice of game that EVE made available to them that they chose to play was NOT PVP.  I'm sorry but this was a viable choice for a long time and people enjoyed messing with the economy and working with the Null Sec Corps to control the prices of rare metals etc by brokering them and letting the Null Sec people do what they did best which was PVP in Null sec.

    2. You use your # 7 to illustrate my point. Because you have way more skill points you reduce them to scrap in a frigate and you have done the spreadsheet required mathematics that someone in your Corp taught you. If you most commonly PVP in a T1 Frigate I have no idea why or where you are fighting and given the advantages of every tier 2 frigate over a tier one you are either tackling with a substandard frig or don't have a reimbursement policy for using a fast t2 to tackle with. Either way your are going to die fast if you are fighting in a fleet engagement. If not then whoever is fighting you in low sec space ought to be owning you with drones.

    3. We agree. The learning curve without a corp or friends is nigh unto impossible to learn. Spreadsheets only teach you so much. 

    4. Given the learning curve NONE of EVE works fine solo as you get GANKED out of existence without someone to teach you. Playing solo in High Sec Space is a sure way to die as pointed out by MANY people who have posted here. That's what happens when you party naked and do not post a guard is a saying of many people that mine. 

    5. People just like you! People that think anyone playing EVE except the way you play it are care bears and thus lesser human beings and not deserving of playing the game. CCP has finally agreed with you and look what happened their numbers dropped. All those Carebears, Mission Runners, and Miners, in high sec space punched eject.

    6. No I'm Really mad cause nobody explained to me that people could do this cause nobody reads the TOS. In MOST games this is against the rules. CCP celebrates players getting screwed. This is NOT a good way to entice NEW players. Don't care if they were dumb or not. I see a game where this happens I am not going to play if the developer is encouraging an exploit or in the Case of Band of Brothers the Developers is found to be actively cheating to help them.

    7&8. Your arguments here are ridiculous and don't hold water as you point out yourself. I cannot keep up with my friends who are now flying capitals if I am not in game or just paying for my account and updating skills. EVE is Pay to WIN or Pay To Advance.

    All of that said. Eve can be a dynamic and fun place to PVP and you can have a blast after about $150.00 investment. That's about a year in game. But the PVE aspect of the game is gone. NULL-SEC is Controlled by Big NAP's and is no Longer the War-Zone it constantly was. Rooks and Kings are the best example of what EVE can Be for a person who wants to PVP go google their videos. They truly play Null Sec PVP as it Used to be.
    1.  Huh?  I still make most of my income from high-sec trade and industry.  High sec has NEVER been safe at any point in Eve's lifespan (it is, in fact, far safer now, from a mechanical perspective, than it has been for most of Eve's life).  Eve has never had a "no pvp" option, short of never undocking. 

    2.  I've never been in a corp with more than a handful of other people, and all RL friends I brought to the game.  I learned how to do math in gradeschool ;).  Maybe you haven't played in a long time, but T1 frigates are quite formidable now, (especially pirate ones).  I win fights by knowing my engagement envelope.  I quite cheerfully slag several T2 frigates in a breacher.  Retribution?  No problem, toss on a tracking disruptor and get in close, he only has 2 mid slots.  No webs for him.  Vengeance?  Hells-to-the-no.  Hawk or Harpy?  Not going anywhere near that Hawk, but the harpy?  Maybe, if I can get a look at him, and he's rocking railguns, and I can figure out a way to get on top of him.  Jags and Wolfs I'll try out no matter what, Ishkur and Enyo are a big no-thank-you, sir.  The same assessment applies for Navy frigates (Slicers are a free kill after swapping out my AB for a MWD, comets are sketchy, an autocannon fit Firetail is a free kill,  a double-web artillery Firetail will wreck me, and a Hookbill I won't go anywhere near), T1 and even T2 cruisers.  Maller?  Sure.  Vexor?  Nope.  None of these outcomes are significantly contingent on SP.  Same applies for battleships getting fragged by frigates. 

    What's a mission-running Megathron going to do to me if I roll up on him with an Ishkur?  I don't need 10 years worth of SP to maximize an Ishkur, and I don't even remotely need a maximized Ishkur (and, bearing in mind that a HUGE chunk of that SP for a "maximized" one is only going to be in that last few level 5s accounting for extremely marginal performance improvements) to make a Mega go pop. 

    4.  Oh for FFS, high sec ganking of randoms is exceedingly rare.  It happens to:
    -Undertanked exhumers.
    -People hauling excessive amounts of cargo in flimsy ships.
    -Stupid mission runners who get baited and open fire thinking the tiny frigate can't possibly be a threat to their big bad battleship.

    Nobody is out suicide ganking to incur a loss.  You can trivially prevent it from ever happening.

    5.  lolwut.  They've been making it progressively safer and scrub-friendly for years now... and their numbers dropped.  Christ, they even have a SAFETY to prevent accidental Concordokken, now.

    6.  So a dev was busted, what, like 8 years ago now?  And, consequently, he was fired.  And you're still sore over that?  Really?  And it's the game's fault you didn't make yourself aware of the rules?

    7&8: Why would you NEED to keep up with your friends?  What does it matter if they're in capital ships?  Is that all they ever fly?  Do they use them without dictor/hictor/ceptor/bomber support?  Can't find room for a T3 cruiser in there?  There's nothing to "keep up" with.  You play to a role. 
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,283
    I think it's the barrier to entry.  The overwhelming issue that seems to pop up on the forums when potential new players start is the learning curve.  Vets can say all they want about how they've improved the tutorial, and all that, but at the end of the day, if people feel it's a barrier, it's a barrier.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,692
    edited October 2015
    All wolves and no sheep?
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 833
    Roll the game back to the way it was pre-2008 and I would return in a heart-beat.  I won't touch it the way it is now.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    Ravensworth said:
    1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!
    High sec always has and always should retain an element of danger.  If you don't want to lose your Drake blueprint during Burn Jita, then follow a few EVE blogs and news sites and keep up with what major events are taking place in the game.  Then simply don't go near Jita during burn Jita.  Pretty simple really.

    2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after  6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.
    The mythical "better" is only partially based on in-game skill.  Maybe 25% of a fight relies on what skills a player has trained.  Ship piloting, smarter fittings and general intel about your enemy are far more useful than pure in-game skills.

    Intelligence drives the fight.  If you don't have any intel about your enemy, then he's driving the fight and you're already on the defensive before the first shot is fired.  Not only that, but I guarantee you that I could wipe the floor in PVP with a player that has twice my Skill Points if all he's ever done is run missions and mine ore. That player won't have a clue what to do in a real fight.

    Ravensworth said:

    3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments. 
    The starting tutorial, EVE University, Red vs. Blue, Spectre Fleet... just a small handful of welcoming and friendly corporations and affiliations that help new players learn eve on a daily basis.

    EVE is a thinking person's game.  If someone wants a game with no learning curve, then they can go play WoW with a third party tool that tells them what buttons to push and when to push them.  I want EVE to have a high learning curve.  It's not just a casual game; it's a commitment.

    4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.
    Do you not understand what the second "M" in MMO stands for?  There are ten times the amount of single player games in the world as there are MMO's and quite a few good single player space simulators as well.  If someone doesn't want to group, then they're in the wrong genre, much less the wrong game.

    Ravensworth said:
    5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)
    You literally just described every multiplayer game in existence and real life at the same time.  Again, if playing with others is not someone's strong suit, then there are thousands of single player games in the world.

    Ravensworth said:

    6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.
    Without trying to be a jerk about it, it's pretty hard to get scammed in EVE if people would just put a little thought into what they're doing.

    1)  If it sounds too good to be true, then it is.
    2)  If you aren't sure if it's a scam, then it's probably a scam.
    3)  If it's being linked in Jita/Amarr/Rens/Dodixie local, then it's a scam.
    4)  If you think it's not a scam, then read the contract again, especially the words in red.
    5)  If it's time sensitive, then it's absolutely 100% a scam.

    Ravensworth said:
    7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them.
    EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.
    If your ability to shoot things isn't getting better over time despite skill training, then you're doing something wrong or not bothering to learn the game mechanics.  Weapons skill, signature radius, speed, tracking, transversal velocity, optimal range, falloff range, ammo effects, webifiers, ECM effects... so many things to consider for each and every shot.  I've seen ten year old FC's ask the entire fleet to shoot at a logistics ship that has a huge transversal velocity while another one right next to it has zero transversal... just because he forgot.

    New players don't know what they don't know yet and have a tendency to form beliefs like this one you just posted, when it's absolutely not true at all.


    8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!
    You can only legally buy someone else's character (not account) from within the game with in-game currency.  This is hardly the definition of pay to win, especially since I've gone into great detail in this post to explain how skill points are not some kind of magical "I Win"  elite points.  They just allow a player to do a thing, not make them any good at it.
  • wyldmagikwyldmagik Member UncommonPosts: 484
    Hourglass, you are a little bit ill informed if you think that skill points dont make you better at something lol, been playing eve since it was released think about this.

    Some guy has large autocannons lvl 1 or whatever vs a guy that has them maxed out and with any bonus skills for fire rate ontop or such?

    To me that would indicate really in english that skill level in a skill does mean the other guy would be at a loss if he does not pull off better positioning etc. I am not in any way saying that the lesser skill trained guy could not win a fight but just he will be less able to pack a punch maybe.


  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    wyldmagik said:
    Hourglass, you are a little bit ill informed if you think that skill points dont make you better at something lol, been playing eve since it was released think about this.

    Some guy has large autocannons lvl 1 or whatever vs a guy that has them maxed out and with any bonus skills for fire rate ontop or such?

    To me that would indicate really in english that skill level in a skill does mean the other guy would be at a loss if he does not pull off better positioning etc. I am not in any way saying that the lesser skill trained guy could not win a fight but just he will be less able to pack a punch maybe.


    Why would anyone go into a fight with Large Projectile Turret 1?  It takes literally minutes to train to level 2, a couple hours for level 3 and less than a day for level 4.

    Level 4 in Large Projectiles with meta 4 guns and Republic Fleet ammo is not a bad place to be in a fleet.  Unless that player is soloing in a Tempest... in which case they need to have their head examined as the "Suddenly Pest" hasn't been viable since "The Age of Cruisers".

    The point I was trying to make in my above counter-post is that new players tend to be skill point crazy, and they should be, but they also tend to equate skill points to skill.  All I'm saying is that skill points are only part of the equation.  The player's ability to fly their ship, collect intel on their targets, fit their ships properly and have a solid knowledge of game mechanics are about 75% of each fight.

    Maybe CCP should rename skill points to "Things I can use points"
  • Minuszer0Minuszer0 Member UncommonPosts: 54
    edited October 2015
    wyldmagik said:
    Hourglass, you are a little bit ill informed if you think that skill points dont make you better at something lol, been playing eve since it was released think about this.

    Some guy has large autocannons lvl 1 or whatever vs a guy that has them maxed out and with any bonus skills for fire rate ontop or such?

    To me that would indicate really in english that skill level in a skill does mean the other guy would be at a loss if he does not pull off better positioning etc. I am not in any way saying that the lesser skill trained guy could not win a fight but just he will be less able to pack a punch maybe.


    They make a difference, just not the difference people pretend they make.  I virtually never have a 1v1 fight that is so close that anyone could say that SPs determined the outcome.  It's almost never, "Well, I won, but I'm at 25% structure, capped out, and my ASB is on reload; if that guy had autocannon spec 5 he might have had me!"

    It happens, it's just rare.

    More commonly it's, "I ripped that guy's face off.  He nearly scratched my paint job," or vice versa because one person's fit provided a significant advantage over the other guy's fit, and this commonly doesn't even mean that one fit was objectively better than the other - just that it was better in that situation, for that particular fight, against that particular enemy.

    No amount of SP is going to save some pinned-down AB/brawler fit from a comparable kiting fit if the latter has managed to dictate range.  Odds are, the brawler is never going to land a shot, regardless of SP.  He screwed up when he got caught.  If the brawler gets a scram on the kiter, it's going to go the exact opposite way, and it's also not going to be a close, SP dependent outcome - the kiter will get rekt.

    Most solo or small fights are not a direct exchange of DPS Vs. Tank and whoever has the better damage:enemytank wins, but that's what the naive complaints about SP advantages assume.
    Post edited by Minuszer0 on
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    This is very misleading, the article says the average number of players that are logged on at one time is less.

    These aren't sub numbers, they are just taking an average of how many players are logged in at once compared to 2-3 years ago, so basically it's just comparing hours played.  It could just mean the players it has are playing less than they used to be cause they have kids/careers etc, doesn't mean they don't still pay and play.

    So yeah this doesn't mean there are less players subbed or playing, it just means they put less time in than they used to. 

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    edited October 2015
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
  • YanocchiYanocchi Member UncommonPosts: 660
    Could it be that some people are loosing motivation to continue playing Eve Online due to the rising popularity of Star Citizen? Eve Online used to be the best-known space MMO but now Star Citizen is taking the spotlight. That's my guess as someone who only played Eve Online over ten years ago during closed beta-test and knows very little about the game. Someone who plays Eve Online should tell us about the sentiment towards Star Citizen that people have on global chat in Eve Online. :)
    Baldur's Gate Online - Video Trailer
    * more info, screenshots and videos here

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,317
    Yanocchi said:
    Could it be that some people are loosing motivation to continue playing Eve Online due to the rising popularity of Star Citizen? Eve Online used to be the best-known space MMO but now Star Citizen is taking the spotlight. That's my guess as someone who only played Eve Online over ten years ago during closed beta-test and knows very little about the game. Someone who plays Eve Online should tell us about the sentiment towards Star Citizen that people have on global chat in Eve Online. :)
    two different games only connected with sci fi setting ;

    SC is  space sim SP MP-co-op game about shooting things in space ,EVE is mmorpg about players interactions !

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
    Lets say that I was bored with EVE and quitting the game.  I could sell my good account illegally for RL cash. Especially a carrier pilot a few years ago.  That would have fetched a pretty penny on the character sales web sites.  Then that player trains the account for a couple of years with their own money.  I decide that I'm interested in playing EVE again, so I claim that the account I sold was hacked.  But looksee, CCP, I'm the original owner!


    I had my main account hacked once.  A guy that I was showing the game when I was deployed to Korea saw my password I guess.  When I moved back to the states it took me a month before I could get back in game.  During that time he hacked my account, stole all of my ISK and ships and basically left me sitting in a station with nothing.

    I contacted CCP support and they returned everything he took and banned the other guy's accounts.  All of them.  I can't imagine that they would treat you any differently unless they suspected foul play.
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    H0urg1ass said:
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
    Lets say that I was bored with EVE and quitting the game.  I could sell my good account illegally for RL cash. Especially a carrier pilot a few years ago.  That would have fetched a pretty penny on the character sales web sites.  Then that player trains the account for a couple of years with their own money.  I decide that I'm interested in playing EVE again, so I claim that the account I sold was hacked.  But looksee, CCP, I'm the original owner!


    I had my main account hacked once.  A guy that I was showing the game when I was deployed to Korea saw my password I guess.  When I moved back to the states it took me a month before I could get back in game.  During that time he hacked my account, stole all of my ISK and ships and basically left me sitting in a station with nothing.

    I contacted CCP support and they returned everything he took and banned the other guy's accounts.  All of them.  I can't imagine that they would treat you any differently unless they suspected foul play.
    If i had done that i would have done it with all 3 accounts i owned not just one... but i can`t exactly convince you i guess. In the end they said that the best they can do given that the guy payed for the sub all those years is ban the account... just that account not the others bla bla. I didn`t sell it anyway, i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... without me knowing about it. I guess they didn`t expect i would be back. But to deny me ownership after it was clear i was the owner... yea. To this day i feel cheated by that... can`t confirm who it was as they did not say who was using it, just that it had continued the subscription for years lol like that gives them any right. What happened to you was more or less the same except they kept using mine... and to do that they must have known i quit that`s why i suspect a corp member... but for CCP to deny me access to my own account because that guy used it that`s theft on their part but whatever i just left after all its just a game. I could still play, out of the 2 accounts one was perfectly capable of doing missions as it was trained for that but you are left with a bad taste after that.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,601
    H0urg1ass said:
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
    Lets say that I was bored with EVE and quitting the game.  I could sell my good account illegally for RL cash. Especially a carrier pilot a few years ago.  That would have fetched a pretty penny on the character sales web sites.  Then that player trains the account for a couple of years with their own money.  I decide that I'm interested in playing EVE again, so I claim that the account I sold was hacked.  But looksee, CCP, I'm the original owner!


    I had my main account hacked once.  A guy that I was showing the game when I was deployed to Korea saw my password I guess.  When I moved back to the states it took me a month before I could get back in game.  During that time he hacked my account, stole all of my ISK and ships and basically left me sitting in a station with nothing.

    I contacted CCP support and they returned everything he took and banned the other guy's accounts.  All of them.  I can't imagine that they would treat you any differently unless they suspected foul play.
    If i had done that i would have done it with all 3 accounts i owned not just one... but i can`t exactly convince you i guess. In the end they said that the best they can do given that the guy payed for the sub all those years is ban the account... just that account not the others bla bla. I didn`t sell it anyway, i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... without me knowing about it. I guess they didn`t expect i would be back. But to deny me ownership after it was clear i was the owner... yea. To this day i feel cheated by that... can`t confirm who it was as they did not say who was using it, just that it had continued the subscription for years lol like that gives them any right. What happened to you was more or less the same except they kept using mine... and to do that they must have known i quit that`s why i suspect a corp member... but for CCP to deny me access to my own account because that guy used it that`s theft on their part but whatever i just left after all its just a game. I could still play, out of the 2 accounts one was perfectly capable of doing missions as it was trained for that but you are left with a bad taste after that.
    If it was clear that you were the owner, then i think it would have been returned to you, as accounts are linked to email addresses etc. i can only imagine that the account is now linked to another email address, so unless you are suggesting that they also hacked your email, which while not impossible, isn't really all that probable, then CCP could easily be forgiven for thinking that you had sold your account, and proving otherwise might be extremely hard given the passage of time involved, and there is also the possibilty, if not probability, that the current owner of that account has proof of their own which contradicts yours.
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Phry said:
    H0urg1ass said:
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
    Lets say that I was bored with EVE and quitting the game.  I could sell my good account illegally for RL cash. Especially a carrier pilot a few years ago.  That would have fetched a pretty penny on the character sales web sites.  Then that player trains the account for a couple of years with their own money.  I decide that I'm interested in playing EVE again, so I claim that the account I sold was hacked.  But looksee, CCP, I'm the original owner!


    I had my main account hacked once.  A guy that I was showing the game when I was deployed to Korea saw my password I guess.  When I moved back to the states it took me a month before I could get back in game.  During that time he hacked my account, stole all of my ISK and ships and basically left me sitting in a station with nothing.

    I contacted CCP support and they returned everything he took and banned the other guy's accounts.  All of them.  I can't imagine that they would treat you any differently unless they suspected foul play.
    If i had done that i would have done it with all 3 accounts i owned not just one... but i can`t exactly convince you i guess. In the end they said that the best they can do given that the guy payed for the sub all those years is ban the account... just that account not the others bla bla. I didn`t sell it anyway, i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... without me knowing about it. I guess they didn`t expect i would be back. But to deny me ownership after it was clear i was the owner... yea. To this day i feel cheated by that... can`t confirm who it was as they did not say who was using it, just that it had continued the subscription for years lol like that gives them any right. What happened to you was more or less the same except they kept using mine... and to do that they must have known i quit that`s why i suspect a corp member... but for CCP to deny me access to my own account because that guy used it that`s theft on their part but whatever i just left after all its just a game. I could still play, out of the 2 accounts one was perfectly capable of doing missions as it was trained for that but you are left with a bad taste after that.
    If it was clear that you were the owner, then i think it would have been returned to you, as accounts are linked to email addresses etc. i can only imagine that the account is now linked to another email address, so unless you are suggesting that they also hacked your email, which while not impossible, isn't really all that probable, then CCP could easily be forgiven for thinking that you had sold your account, and proving otherwise might be extremely hard given the passage of time involved, and there is also the possibilty, if not probability, that the current owner of that account has proof of their own which contradicts yours.
    So you are dreaming a scenario where you are right?

    I was the owner after some verification they did not dispute that, they just told me what i told you.

    Initially i contacted them thinking i`m writing the account name wrong or something, as i could log in on the other accounts but not that one. 

    It wasn`t hard for them to check anyway, my credit card info was linked to all 3 so that was that. It was easy to see who payed for what and when. Don`t even know if the guy who hacked my account used a CC or just game currency to pay.

    So i went from "hey guys can you please tell me what accounts i have for this name/CC, there must be 3, i logged in to 2, can you spell me the 3rd" to being told that that user payed for the account since then until now and even tho i`m the owner... well tough luck.

    They did give me the option to lock that account aka nobody got it... so i did that since i wasn`t planning to play the game anyway.

    I hope whoever hacked it had a lot of stuff on it. :-)
  • Minuszer0Minuszer0 Member UncommonPosts: 54
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    I've noticed zero difference.
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264

    Phry said:
    H0urg1ass said:
    CCP is a scam company itself. 

    I had 3 accounts, left the game for a few years... came back to see one of them, my capital ship pilot, hacked...

    Ok so i contacted support, proved it was me via Credit Card details(same name, address as the guy who made/payed for the account). You know what they said?

    They said that the guy who took over the account payed for a subscription for years and it would be unfair for me to now get the account. I swear that`s what their support finally said after i escalated it... 

    I still had my other 2 accounts(most serious EVE players have 2+ account, its how the game is designed... to milk people well) but after that i just quit. 

    I think i told this on this forum 2 or 3 years ago when it happened but yea its worth saying it again, as to this day i can`t believe they would do that. I guess you can`t scam your players over and over and have them willing to pay you.
    Lets say that I was bored with EVE and quitting the game.  I could sell my good account illegally for RL cash. Especially a carrier pilot a few years ago.  That would have fetched a pretty penny on the character sales web sites.  Then that player trains the account for a couple of years with their own money.  I decide that I'm interested in playing EVE again, so I claim that the account I sold was hacked.  But looksee, CCP, I'm the original owner!


    I had my main account hacked once.  A guy that I was showing the game when I was deployed to Korea saw my password I guess.  When I moved back to the states it took me a month before I could get back in game.  During that time he hacked my account, stole all of my ISK and ships and basically left me sitting in a station with nothing.

    I contacted CCP support and they returned everything he took and banned the other guy's accounts.  All of them.  I can't imagine that they would treat you any differently unless they suspected foul play.
    If i had done that i would have done it with all 3 accounts i owned not just one... but i can`t exactly convince you i guess. In the end they said that the best they can do given that the guy payed for the sub all those years is ban the account... just that account not the others bla bla. I didn`t sell it anyway, i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... without me knowing about it. I guess they didn`t expect i would be back. But to deny me ownership after it was clear i was the owner... yea. To this day i feel cheated by that... can`t confirm who it was as they did not say who was using it, just that it had continued the subscription for years lol like that gives them any right. What happened to you was more or less the same except they kept using mine... and to do that they must have known i quit that`s why i suspect a corp member... but for CCP to deny me access to my own account because that guy used it that`s theft on their part but whatever i just left after all its just a game. I could still play, out of the 2 accounts one was perfectly capable of doing missions as it was trained for that but you are left with a bad taste after that.
    If it was clear that you were the owner, then i think it would have been returned to you, as accounts are linked to email addresses etc. i can only imagine that the account is now linked to another email address, so unless you are suggesting that they also hacked your email, which while not impossible, isn't really all that probable, then CCP could easily be forgiven for thinking that you had sold your account, and proving otherwise might be extremely hard given the passage of time involved, and there is also the possibilty, if not probability, that the current owner of that account has proof of their own which contradicts yours.
    So you are dreaming a scenario where you are right?

    I was the owner after some verification they did not dispute that, they just told me what i told you.

    Initially i contacted them thinking i`m writing the account name wrong or something, as i could log in on the other accounts but not that one. 

    It wasn`t hard for them to check anyway, my credit card info was linked to all 3 so that was that. It was easy to see who payed for what and when. Don`t even know if the guy who hacked my account used a CC or just game currency to pay.

    So i went from "hey guys can you please tell me what accounts i have for this name/CC, there must be 3, i logged in to 2, can you spell me the 3rd" to being told that that user payed for the account since then until now and even tho i`m the owner... well tough luck.

    They did give me the option to lock that account aka nobody got it... so i did that since i wasn`t planning to play the game anyway.

    I hope whoever hacked it had a lot of stuff on it. :-)
    I found the mail... quoting it below:

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 11:43:37 +0000

    Hello there,
    We have investigated the (removing the actual account name) account and will sadly not be able to offer any assistance recovering it.
    The account is currently being used by the same player who apparently took it over back in 2008, and that player has been paying for the subscription for 5 years now.
    Account sharing is not allowed(as you already know) but the account appears to have been given away willingly so we will not be removing it from the player who has paid for it the longest.
    Please let me know if you have any further questions or trouble.
    Best regards,
    GM Stardust
    CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514


    There is more:


    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 14:37:38 +0000

    Hi again.
    You are of course entitled to a second opinion so I will now be sending this to our Senior Game Masters for review.
    Please note that it can take a few days for this matter to be resolved.
    Best regards,
    GM Stardust
    CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514


    And: 


    From GM Markab @ 2013-10-09 04:25:00:

    We apologize for the delay in getting back to you.

    I'm afraid that GM Stardust's decision in this matter will stand. We will not be able to give you access to it or the characters from it, but are banning the account.

    Given how long ago it is since the account changed hands, this is our only recourse.

    Best regards,
    Senior GM Markab,
    CCP Customer Support | Eve Online | Dust514 |


    Did not remember but yea they thought i had given it away well i kind of did, anyone who plays EVE Online knows that capital ship accounts back then were shared in a corp... you had to. So nothing new there that more knew the password, but i did not expect that they would actually do that.


    Anyway as you can see in the end they knew it was my account, even banned it... 


    The account sharing crap is just that, crap...  every Titan pilot in the game is sharing his account so they can use the Titan at any moment and so on, if the actually enforced that rule it would be the end of the game. But apparently they can remember about it when it suits them.

  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Minuszer0 said:
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
    If you ever played the game in a corp with capital ship accounts you would know that nobody has time/resources to buy one, back then they were not all that common. So yea, people shared them, if they would enforce that rule there would be only 10% of the population playing. :-)

    When you are under attack whoever is online logs into whatever capital ships there are available and goes to battle. CCP knows, doesn`t care... unless they can use it to their advantage apparently.

    Capital ships were a team effort, if the corp helped you get one, they expected you to either be on call 24/7 and ready to log in or to share the account details so in an emergency they can use it.

    As i said, its known, CCP never enforced it as it would basically ruin the game hell its not even a secret.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    Minuszer0 said:
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
    If you ever played the game in a corp with capital ship accounts you would know that nobody has time/resources to buy one, back then they were not all that common. So yea, people shared them, if they would enforce that rule there would be only 10% of the population playing. :-)

    When you are under attack whoever is online logs into whatever capital ships there are available and goes to battle. CCP knows, doesn`t care... unless they can use it to their advantage apparently.

    Capital ships were a team effort, if the corp helped you get one, they expected you to either be on call 24/7 and ready to log in or to share the account details so in an emergency they can use it.

    As i said, its known, CCP never enforced it as it would basically ruin the game hell its not even a secret.

    So, you abandoned your account for 5 years, after you gave other people your password, and some guy has been playing it for the past 5 years. Now you expected to get it back after someone had been working on it for you for 5 years. On top of that, you then end up getting that guy banned after he put 5 years worth of effort into it.

    I have no sympathy for you at all.
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Minuszer0 said:
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
    If you ever played the game in a corp with capital ship accounts you would know that nobody has time/resources to buy one, back then they were not all that common. So yea, people shared them, if they would enforce that rule there would be only 10% of the population playing. :-)

    When you are under attack whoever is online logs into whatever capital ships there are available and goes to battle. CCP knows, doesn`t care... unless they can use it to their advantage apparently.

    Capital ships were a team effort, if the corp helped you get one, they expected you to either be on call 24/7 and ready to log in or to share the account details so in an emergency they can use it.

    As i said, its known, CCP never enforced it as it would basically ruin the game hell its not even a secret.

    So, you abandoned your account for 5 years, after you gave other people your password, and some guy has been playing it for the past 5 years. Now you expected to get it back after someone had been working on it for you for 5 years. On top of that, you then end up getting that guy banned after he put 5 years worth of effort into it.

    I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I never told anyone to play it. I did not think they would. That`s what you get for stealing... even if they get it 5 years later.

    They had access for the capital ship use alone... and even then with my permission... that was no longer the case once i quit the game/left the corp.  Did not expect them to hijack it and did not expect CCP to say "yea its cool".

    Doesn`t matter how a password is found, i share it, somebody steals it, same thing, he gets the password. Why would any game developer side with the person trying to steal my stuff?

    If i leave my house for 5 years and a friend at one time had a key, knows i`m gone then just comes in lives there for 5 years pays for everything... does it make it his house? No. He goes to jail. So why is it any different here?


  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    Minuszer0 said:
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
    If you ever played the game in a corp with capital ship accounts you would know that nobody has time/resources to buy one, back then they were not all that common. So yea, people shared them, if they would enforce that rule there would be only 10% of the population playing. :-)

    When you are under attack whoever is online logs into whatever capital ships there are available and goes to battle. CCP knows, doesn`t care... unless they can use it to their advantage apparently.

    Capital ships were a team effort, if the corp helped you get one, they expected you to either be on call 24/7 and ready to log in or to share the account details so in an emergency they can use it.

    As i said, its known, CCP never enforced it as it would basically ruin the game hell its not even a secret.

    So, you abandoned your account for 5 years, after you gave other people your password, and some guy has been playing it for the past 5 years. Now you expected to get it back after someone had been working on it for you for 5 years. On top of that, you then end up getting that guy banned after he put 5 years worth of effort into it.

    I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I never told anyone to play it. I did not think they would. That`s what you get for stealing... even if they get it 5 years later.

    They had access for the capital ship use alone... and even then with my permission... that was no longer the case once i quit the game/left the corp.  Did not expect them to hijack it and did not expect CCP to say "yea its cool".

    Doesn`t matter how a password is found, i share it, somebody steals it, same thing, he gets the password. Why would any game developer side with the person trying to steal my stuff?

    If i leave my house for 5 years and a friend at one time had a key, knows i`m gone then just comes in lives there for 5 years pays for everything... does it make it his house? No. He goes to jail. So why is it any different here?


    You gave away your password. In EVE. It's pretty insane how rookie of a mistake that is in the first place. But to then expect to come back to your account 5 years later to recover it from someone you gave your password to... I just don't get it. 

    There isn't a 1 to 1 equivalency with your analogy. See, when you give your password away to someone else for their use, according to CCP, the account gets banned. There is no similar situation when you own property. 
  • alexhpy98721alexhpy98721 Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Minuszer0 said:
    i just quit and i suspect that somebody from my corp who knew the password(more than one did as the carrier was used as a hauler, standard practice) decided to keep playing it... 
    Oh, so you shared your password in violation of policy, but it's all their fault.  Got it.
    If you ever played the game in a corp with capital ship accounts you would know that nobody has time/resources to buy one, back then they were not all that common. So yea, people shared them, if they would enforce that rule there would be only 10% of the population playing. :-)

    When you are under attack whoever is online logs into whatever capital ships there are available and goes to battle. CCP knows, doesn`t care... unless they can use it to their advantage apparently.

    Capital ships were a team effort, if the corp helped you get one, they expected you to either be on call 24/7 and ready to log in or to share the account details so in an emergency they can use it.

    As i said, its known, CCP never enforced it as it would basically ruin the game hell its not even a secret.

    So, you abandoned your account for 5 years, after you gave other people your password, and some guy has been playing it for the past 5 years. Now you expected to get it back after someone had been working on it for you for 5 years. On top of that, you then end up getting that guy banned after he put 5 years worth of effort into it.

    I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I never told anyone to play it. I did not think they would. That`s what you get for stealing... even if they get it 5 years later.

    They had access for the capital ship use alone... and even then with my permission... that was no longer the case once i quit the game/left the corp.  Did not expect them to hijack it and did not expect CCP to say "yea its cool".

    Doesn`t matter how a password is found, i share it, somebody steals it, same thing, he gets the password. Why would any game developer side with the person trying to steal my stuff?

    If i leave my house for 5 years and a friend at one time had a key, knows i`m gone then just comes in lives there for 5 years pays for everything... does it make it his house? No. He goes to jail. So why is it any different here?


    You gave away your password. In EVE. It's pretty insane how rookie of a mistake that is in the first place. But to then expect to come back to your account 5 years later to recover it from someone you gave your password to... I just don't get it. 

    There isn't a 1 to 1 equivalency with your analogy. See, when you give your password away to someone else for their use, according to CCP, the account gets banned. There is no similar situation when you own property. 
    Yes let`s end it here as you are either trolling me or never actually played the game and had a capital ship back then.

    If they were to ban everyone sharing an account for capital ship use there would be no more corporations as the first and most important requirement for a corporation to help you get a capital ship is to share it... simple as that. As i said above. 

    So stop being a fanboi or a troll or whatever, its not working. They messed it up but whatever its been 2 years i don`t care anymore tho i am glad to see that such a thieving developer that only enforces what rule it suits them best won`t be around for much longer.
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