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Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes!

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Comments

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited October 2015
    CitizenCon live stream:

    Nice speech and acting from Sandi at the start. Good job weaving in some of the points like her running the campaign since the start, attacks on her and showing the other co-workers love her giving her flowers. Followed by re-enforcing the "we are all a family (cult)" mantra. We are part of something greater than a game. We are all Star Citizens.

    I have to admit that was really impressive.


    They announced SC Alpha 2.0 actually a game with all the modules! No date however.

    They are showing the game. Looks pretty good part from the sync and fps issues which hopefully will be fixed.
    Post edited by MrSnuffles on
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • barasawabarasawa Member UncommonPosts: 609

    ...
    Does anyone really believe that Derek Smart would create fake accounts to post on forums? He is running a blog and a twitter where he speaks without any hesitation about his believes. He loves publicity. If anything Derek Smart is a narcissist that likes the public attention.

    It is completely irrational to think that man would use anonymous accounts to discuss anything with the CIG followers in their forum.
    Why not, he's done it before, and yes, he is completely irrational.

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited October 2015
    barasawa said:

    ...
    Does anyone really believe that Derek Smart would create fake accounts to post on forums? He is running a blog and a twitter where he speaks without any hesitation about his believes. He loves publicity. If anything Derek Smart is a narcissist that likes the public attention.

    It is completely irrational to think that man would use anonymous accounts to discuss anything with the CIG followers in their forum.
    Why not, he's done it before, and yes, he is completely irrational.
    Proof? Yeah, i thought so, i just file this under paranoid delusion with the other cult like behaviors.
    Post edited by MrSnuffles on
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    What credible sources. So far all sources have been anonymous. Derek Smart has been caught playing fast and loose with the truth in regards to FTC complaints which he said there were many and none have surfaced. A DA becomes interested in what? Federal Jurisdiction is not a matter for a district attorney.

    Chris Roberts owns CIG it is hard to embezzle from yourself and he can set his own salary. The man wasn't poor when he started this venture. 

    Let's review what we know so far. 
    1. The Game is Late. (um Yeah it's a Kickstarter game that is now funded 45x the original goal duh! but they do owe you a reasonable delivery date of Squadron 42)

    2. Derek Smart has made Many unsubstantiated claims without solid evidence of ANY third party going on record saying the company or the game is in trouble.

    3. Mr Smart has made a huge Number of unfounded allegations against Ms. Sandi Gardiner. They are unfounded mostly because they are opinion based. IE she is not qualified to be the marketing manager. Well she managed to Market 90 million dollars worth of what you call Vapor ware Mr. Smart and you haven't sold that much of your own games.

    4. Chris Roberts Largely tried to ignore Derek Smart until the press started reprinting what he said. Personally I think the journalism both here in the last 2 days and on the Escapist has been shoddy at best and inexcusable at worst. MMORPG.COM has allowed an author to make some accusations that have no foundation in fact and are opinion only. This could lead them into real trouble. It's called Libel.

    5. Nobody has ANY facts that have been laid open and bare and CIG does not have to open their doors books or any other part of their company to satisfy the internet hordes curiosity. They must deliver a game or the FTC or a State Attorney General can get involved in the United States. NONE of that has happened yet publicly.

    I hope @thebillmurphy would contact me so someone can write a reasonable article on this. I am not a backer not a fan of CIG or Chris Roberts. I think he owes his public a game and now.
    The sources are not anonymous, they are verified ex-employees that chose to not have their name printed. Since you don't know the difference this discussion is pretty pointless.

    You don't know the financials of CR. We can do know however that Chris Roberts has not made a game on over a decade. He failed with his movie studio and even got sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 Million over mismanagement of funds for a movie. I would say this was a windfall for CR if anything.

    The rest is about Derek Smart so i won't even go into it because it has nothing to do with the article. The obsession with Derek Smart as the boogeyman for everything is really very interesting from a psychological point of view.

    It's really like you are all brainwashed and can't talk about anything else than Derek Smart. Go over to  and watch the chat. It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!


    Tell me Mr. Snuffles where you get all your information from if NOT from Derek Smart? The article by the Escapist is almost Verbatim Smart.
    Second tell me how you know these anonymous witnesses are real? have they come forward and testified in anything resembling a court of law about financial mismanagement? So far all I have seen them talk about is how they hate Sandi Gardiner and Chris Roberts but they don't seem to be accounting people at all Snuffles.

    I want Solid Identifiable fact. 
    So show me Solid identifiable fact that you have Mr. Snuffles. Not rumor Innuendo or anonymous sources. Factual documentation of any of this. So far everything has been about Derek Smart allegations. I want more information that YOU have.

    Show me.

    Cheers,
    Ravensworth

    image
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939

    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    What credible sources. So far all sources have been anonymous. Derek Smart has been caught playing fast and loose with the truth in regards to FTC complaints which he said there were many and none have surfaced. A DA becomes interested in what? Federal Jurisdiction is not a matter for a district attorney.

    Chris Roberts owns CIG it is hard to embezzle from yourself and he can set his own salary. The man wasn't poor when he started this venture. 

    Let's review what we know so far. 
    1. The Game is Late. (um Yeah it's a Kickstarter game that is now funded 45x the original goal duh! but they do owe you a reasonable delivery date of Squadron 42)

    2. Derek Smart has made Many unsubstantiated claims without solid evidence of ANY third party going on record saying the company or the game is in trouble.

    3. Mr Smart has made a huge Number of unfounded allegations against Ms. Sandi Gardiner. They are unfounded mostly because they are opinion based. IE she is not qualified to be the marketing manager. Well she managed to Market 90 million dollars worth of what you call Vapor ware Mr. Smart and you haven't sold that much of your own games.

    4. Chris Roberts Largely tried to ignore Derek Smart until the press started reprinting what he said. Personally I think the journalism both here in the last 2 days and on the Escapist has been shoddy at best and inexcusable at worst. MMORPG.COM has allowed an author to make some accusations that have no foundation in fact and are opinion only. This could lead them into real trouble. It's called Libel.

    5. Nobody has ANY facts that have been laid open and bare and CIG does not have to open their doors books or any other part of their company to satisfy the internet hordes curiosity. They must deliver a game or the FTC or a State Attorney General can get involved in the United States. NONE of that has happened yet publicly.

    I hope @thebillmurphy would contact me so someone can write a reasonable article on this. I am not a backer not a fan of CIG or Chris Roberts. I think he owes his public a game and now.
    The sources are not anonymous, they are verified ex-employees that chose to not have their name printed. Since you don't know the difference this discussion is pretty pointless.

    You don't know the financials of CR. We can do know however that Chris Roberts has not made a game on over a decade. He failed with his movie studio and even got sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 Million over mismanagement of funds for a movie. I would say this was a windfall for CR if anything.

    The rest is about Derek Smart so i won't even go into it because it has nothing to do with the article. The obsession with Derek Smart as the boogeyman for everything is really very interesting from a psychological point of view.

    It's really like you are all brainwashed and can't talk about anything else than Derek Smart. Go over to  and watch the chat. It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!


    Tell me Mr. Snuffles where you get all your information from if NOT from Derek Smart? The article by the Escapist is almost Verbatim Smart.
    Second tell me how you know these anonymous witnesses are real? have they come forward and testified in anything resembling a court of law about financial mismanagement? So far all I have seen them talk about is how they hate Sandi Gardiner and Chris Roberts but they don't seem to be accounting people at all Snuffles.

    I want Solid Identifiable fact. 
    So show me Solid identifiable fact that you have Mr. Snuffles. Not rumor Innuendo or anonymous sources. Factual documentation of any of this. So far everything has been about Derek Smart allegations. I want more information that YOU have.

    Show me.

    Cheers,
    Ravensworth

    The article is verbatim from the verifyed ex-employees and 2 current employees that also talked to DS. So DS has been verified that what he said is true. Man you guys need to get over DS. Stop listening to CR and his smoke and mirrors. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited October 2015
     It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!

    Tell me Mr. Snuffles where you get all your information from if NOT from Derek Smart? The article by the Escapist is almost Verbatim Smart.
    Second tell me how you know these anonymous witnesses are real? have they come forward and testified in anything resembling a court of law about financial mismanagement? So far all I have seen them talk about is how they hate Sandi Gardiner and Chris Roberts but they don't seem to be accounting people at all Snuffles.

    I want Solid Identifiable fact. 
    So show me Solid identifiable fact that you have Mr. Snuffles. Not rumor Innuendo or anonymous sources. Factual documentation of any of this. So far everything has been about Derek Smart allegations. I want more information that YOU have.

    Show me.

    Cheers,
    Ravensworth

    OK, notice the hilarity answering my post about irrational behavior always blaming Derek Smart and you answer by accusing me i get some sort of information from Derek Smart.
     
    Excuse me? What information are you talking about? Please let me know which information you are referring to because i don't know what the #@!^ you are talking about.

    This is exactly the cult like psychotic behavior i talked about. I never claimed to have any information other than what everyone else can verify online. 

    Take a step back and breathe then show me a post where i said i have any information or claimed to have any information.

    If you are able to read then you could check for yourself that the Escapist says that they know the names of these people and saw pay stubs to confirm they worked at CIG. At this point this is all we know so unless someone proofs these sources are fake their depositions are what we have.

    Wow, man, you need to really calm down.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    Given the incredibly stupid and poorly worded letter written by the co-founder of CIG to The Escapist, they may soon be forced to disclose all of their accounts should this proceed to court.

    CIG will then lose the case largely due to the cross-examination resulting from one idiot's ill-conceived letter. This soap opera has become a sit-com.   
  • user547user547 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    Before Derek Smart accused Chris Roberts of being the scumbag of the universe, nobody had ever said anything of the sort about Chris Roberts.  Since Derek Smart's smear campaign, all of a sudden a bunch of internet warriors have shown up slinging all sorts of outlandish, horrible accusations about Chris Robert's character and invented a whole universe where Chris Roberts is the devil.

    It's pretty safe to say that this is 100% Derek Smart and his character assassination.  He will continue to attack, slander, libel, defame, and attempt to steal the property of the target he has designated until people stand up and tell him to go away.  He will never stop until he has been soundly rebuked.

    People who join in this smear campaign are themselves scurrilous and deserve the same rebuke.  Those that are not sock puppet accounts that Derek Smart is famous for, that is.

    As far as ClickBaitGate and the Escapist goes, if you publish unsourced accusation of federal crimes, it is you yourself that is making the accusations.  You will not be able to hide behind some idea of journalistic protection, because you have crossed the line and become the accuser.  If you listen to Derek Smart and continue down the path you are currently on, he will ruin you and then laugh in your face. 

    That's what sociopaths do.  They do not have friends, only victims and co-conspirators who are future victims.  Don't let him Derek Smart you too.
  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827
    edited October 2015
    user547 said:
    Before Derek Smart accused Chris Roberts of being the scumbag of the universe, nobody had ever said anything of the sort about Chris Roberts.  Since Derek Smart's smear campaign, all of a sudden a bunch of internet warriors have shown up slinging all sorts of outlandish, horrible accusations about Chris Robert's character and invented a whole universe where Chris Roberts is the devil.

    It's pretty safe to say that this is 100% Derek Smart and his character assassination.  He will continue to attack, slander, libel, defame, and attempt to steal the property of the target he has designated until people stand up and tell him to go away.  He will never stop until he has been soundly rebuked.

    People who join in this smear campaign are themselves scurrilous and deserve the same rebuke.  Those that are not sock puppet accounts that Derek Smart is famous for, that is.

    As far as ClickBaitGate and the Escapist goes, if you publish unsourced accusation of federal crimes, it is you yourself that is making the accusations.  You will not be able to hide behind some idea of journalistic protection, because you have crossed the line and become the accuser.  If you listen to Derek Smart and continue down the path you are currently on, he will ruin you and then laugh in your face. 

    That's what sociopaths do.  They do not have friends, only victims and co-conspirators who are future victims.  Don't let him Derek Smart you too.

    Be hoenst that letter had more to do with it than anything by DS or TEM.  Pick a medium, website, blog, or forum an check unique posters/respondedents during the originall "smear" campaign. Now do so after the letter was plastered everywhere.  Orders of magnitude difference.  Prior to that it was the same people hashing the same &$*(&#( no one else cared.

    image
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,353
    edited October 2015
    Why did Sandi said: "...I have been running the project's marketing in it's interity, up until now..."

    Does that mean she quit? :open_mouth: 
    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • salaciouscrumbssalaciouscrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 169
    Given the incredibly stupid and poorly worded letter written by the co-founder of CIG to The Escapist, they may soon be forced to disclose all of their accounts should this proceed to court.

    CIG will then lose the case largely due to the cross-examination resulting from one idiot's ill-conceived letter. This soap opera has become a sit-com.   
    I couldn't care less if they disclosed their accounts of not.

    Would be nice to see though. Funny thing is, even if such a "forensic accounting" showed that CIG is flush with cash, the conspiracy nuts like yourself would immediately rationalize it as some kind of "fraud" etc.

    No different than the Obama birth certificate "scandal". When people want something to be true or false so badly, their minds will go to whatever stretch is necessary in order to preserve their ego.

    So tell me, FomaldehydeJim. If the books were revealed and it was proven by a third party that there is tons of cash left, will you believe it?

    I'd be my left nut that you wouldn't believe it under any circumstances. Why? Because then you wouldn't have any reason to post your negative bullshit here.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,096
    edited October 2015
    Brenics said:


    The article is verbatim from the verifyed ex-employees and 2 current employees that also talked to DS. So DS has been verified that what he said is true. Man you guys need to get over DS. Stop listening to CR and his smoke and mirrors. 
    Allegedly verified sources. You have to take Escapists word for, you also have to be willing to accept these sources don't have a personal grudge and are not lying. The accusations were pretty bad and so far there has been zippo action against CIG, that we know of ofc, and as more times passes and nothing happens the more it looks bogus with escapists trying to cover their arses while getting clickbait revenue. SC has done something and taken some routes I didn't like but me pledging doesn't give me any rights to tell them how to create this and all that malarky. From what we have seem so far they indeed have done work on the game, clearly anyone saying they have no game and are scamming people well, get a clue I must say or at least buy a vowel.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • salaciouscrumbssalaciouscrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 169
     It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!

    Tell me Mr. Snuffles where you get all your information from if NOT from Derek Smart? The article by the Escapist is almost Verbatim Smart.
    Second tell me how you know these anonymous witnesses are real? have they come forward and testified in anything resembling a court of law about financial mismanagement? So far all I have seen them talk about is how they hate Sandi Gardiner and Chris Roberts but they don't seem to be accounting people at all Snuffles.

    I want Solid Identifiable fact. 
    So show me Solid identifiable fact that you have Mr. Snuffles. Not rumor Innuendo or anonymous sources. Factual documentation of any of this. So far everything has been about Derek Smart allegations. I want more information that YOU have.

    Show me.

    Cheers,
    Ravensworth

    OK, notice the hilarity answering my post about irrational behavior always blaming Derek Smart and you answer by accusing me i get some sort of information from Derek Smart.
     
    Excuse me? What information are you talking about? Please let me know which information you are referring to because i don't know what the #@!^ you are talking about.

    This is exactly the cult like psychotic behavior i talked about. I never claimed to have any information other than what everyone else can verify online. 

    Take a step back and breathe then show me a post where i said i have any information or claimed to have any information.

    If you are able to read then you could check for yourself that the Escapist says that they know the names of these people and saw pay stubs to confirm they worked at CIG. At this point this is all we know so unless someone proofs these sources are fake their depositions are what we have.

    Wow, man, you need to really calm down.
    Escapist can say anything they want. There's no proof that it is true. No proof that the sources are real.

    When major publications write stories they don't rely on anonymous sources alone. They corroborate with evidence. Escapist does not present any evidence. Zero. Just sources that they cannot prove are real.

    People want evidence. Show me evidence of wrong-doing and I will immediately become a detractor of this game. Why? Because I'm rational and I haven't staked out one side or the other. I'm flexible and willing to change my view. I'm exactly the opposite of conspiracy theorist nuts on this website.

    And yes, until you prove with evidence that there is wrong-doing, you are 100% a conspiracy theorist nut. Not a skeptic, not a critic . . . a complete nut. 

    Because skeptics and critics are people who base their feedback and opinions on evidence, not "faith". Conspiracy nuts base their opinion on rumor, theoretical connections and hearsay. See alien abduction bullshit for example.
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    user547 said:
    Before Derek Smart accused Chris Roberts of being the scumbag of the universe, nobody had ever said anything of the sort about Chris Roberts.  Since Derek Smart's smear campaign, all of a sudden a bunch of internet warriors have shown up slinging all sorts of outlandish, horrible accusations about Chris Robert's character and invented a whole universe where Chris Roberts is the devil.

    It's pretty safe to say that this is 100% Derek Smart and his character assassination.  He will continue to attack, slander, libel, defame, and attempt to steal the property of the target he has designated until people stand up and tell him to go away.  He will never stop until he has been soundly rebuked.

    People who join in this smear campaign are themselves scurrilous and deserve the same rebuke.  Those that are not sock puppet accounts that Derek Smart is famous for, that is.

    As far as ClickBaitGate and the Escapist goes, if you publish unsourced accusation of federal crimes, it is you yourself that is making the accusations.  You will not be able to hide behind some idea of journalistic protection, because you have crossed the line and become the accuser.  If you listen to Derek Smart and continue down the path you are currently on, he will ruin you and then laugh in your face. 

    That's what sociopaths do.  They do not have friends, only victims and co-conspirators who are future victims.  Don't let him Derek Smart you too.
    This isn't strictly true. 

    Given that CIG is a public figure the onus is on them to prove actual malice, i.e. The Escapist new the statements to be false but printed them regardless. Given that the Escapist is backing their article I would imagine they are confident in their sources. This is at least true in the US.

    But legal action was also threatened in the UK (where I hark from). In the UK you merely need to prove that the allegations are false (i.e. there is no actual malice burden), but for CIG to pursue the Escapist in the UK, the Escapist would need to have holdings there.  

    Derek Smart has no relevance to any of this; raising his name is just a distraction technique.   
  • user547user547 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    Nonsense.  This is Derek Smart's baby all the way.
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,353
    Why did Sandi said: "...I have been running the project's marketing in it's interity, up until now..."

    Does that mean she quit? :open_mouth: 
    So is she quitting?

    Rumour has that she was about to quit on stage and Erin interrupted her.
    (according to Derek Smart's twitter)

    Something is rocking that boat, and not in a good way.
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  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Why did Sandi said: "...I have been running the project's marketing in it's interity, up until now..."

    Does that mean she quit? :open_mouth: 
    So is she quitting?

    Rumour has that she was about to quit on stage and Erin interrupted her.
    (according to Derek Smart's twitter)

    Something is rocking that boat, and not in a good way.
    Getting info from DS's twitter is akin to getting dating info written on truck stop bathroom walls.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    edited October 2015
    Erillion said:
    Sorry, I have seen Derek Smart in action (e.g. Alganon) long before Star Citizen was a wet dream in Chris Roberts mind. Not being a fan of Derek Smart LONG predates anything SC related.


    Have fun
    Umm... Not sure what your point is in bringing up Alganon?

    Derek was brought in - at the request of Alganon's investors - to turn things around and get the game out the door, because it was being mismanaged and run into the ground by its previous/original lead (David Allen). 

    Under Derek, Alganon:
    - Was turned around, successfully launched and has had many problems ironed out; it's a very stable game, at least as of last time I played.
    - Has had an expansion released
    - Is still up and running, and perfectly playable, with an active playerbase - however small.

    That's all fact. Not opinion.

    I've played Alganon a bit and, while it's not my kind of game and I didn't stick around for very long, it's a perfectly acceptable and, more importantly, playable game. That "playable" bit is pretty important.

    So... if your intent was to illustrate how Derek was actually able to wrangle together, save and successfully launch a project that was destined for oblivion.. then... umm... good job, I guess?

    As for his own titles... again, say what you want about them... They were released, are playable, and have their own core audience of people who enjoy playing them, quite a lot.  

    What you think of him, Alganon or his own titles, or his own development history, is completely irrelevant to anything going on with SC, CR or anyone else to do with that game. So, why you people think bringing any of that up is some kind of valid defense for anything happening with SC is really quite curious. Looks like straight-up deflection to me.

    Your obsession with DS really is pretty disturbing. If only you people could see how obsessed you all look to an outsider. Maybe down the road, with enough time and distance from this whole thing, you should come back and look at the way you and others carried on during this whole thing. I'd be surprised if you didn't cringe even a little bit at the way you people are carrying on.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,683
    user547 said:
    Before Derek Smart accused Chris Roberts of being the scumbag of the universe, nobody had ever said anything of the sort about Chris Roberts.  Since Derek Smart's smear campaign, all of a sudden a bunch of internet warriors have shown up slinging all sorts of outlandish, horrible accusations about Chris Robert's character and invented a whole universe where Chris Roberts is the devil.

    It's pretty safe to say that this is 100% Derek Smart and his character assassination.  He will continue to attack, slander, libel, defame, and attempt to steal the property of the target he has designated until people stand up and tell him to go away.  He will never stop until he has been soundly rebuked.

    People who join in this smear campaign are themselves scurrilous and deserve the same rebuke.  Those that are not sock puppet accounts that Derek Smart is famous for, that is.

    As far as ClickBaitGate and the Escapist goes, if you publish unsourced accusation of federal crimes, it is you yourself that is making the accusations.  You will not be able to hide behind some idea of journalistic protection, because you have crossed the line and become the accuser.  If you listen to Derek Smart and continue down the path you are currently on, he will ruin you and then laugh in your face. 

    That's what sociopaths do.  They do not have friends, only victims and co-conspirators who are future victims.  Don't let him Derek Smart you too.
    Well, I certainly know I was talking here about problems that were probably going to crop up for SC, all the way from around the kickstarter on.   Not because I had knowledge of the internals of CIG, but because I know a bunch of folks who worked with Roberts.  The tales of his mismanagement during the Origin days are very similar to the tales of his CIG mismanagement.  

    One of the telling comments I heard was 'Maybe Chris Roberts has matured in the last 15 years....'   From the stories leaking out, and his Letter of High Dudgeon, it does not appear  that's happened.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    edited October 2015
    Given the incredibly stupid and poorly worded letter written by the co-founder of CIG to The Escapist, they may soon be forced to disclose all of their accounts should this proceed to court.

    CIG will then lose the case largely due to the cross-examination resulting from one idiot's ill-conceived letter. This soap opera has become a sit-com.   
    I couldn't care less if they disclosed their accounts of not.

    Would be nice to see though. Funny thing is, even if such a "forensic accounting" showed that CIG is flush with cash, the conspiracy nuts like yourself would immediately rationalize it as some kind of "fraud" etc.

    No different than the Obama birth certificate "scandal". When people want something to be true or false so badly, their minds will go to whatever stretch is necessary in order to preserve their ego.

    So tell me, FomaldehydeJim. If the books were revealed and it was proven by a third party that there is tons of cash left, will you believe it?

    I'd be my left nut that you wouldn't believe it under any circumstances. Why? Because then you wouldn't have any reason to post your negative bullshit here.
    I will repost another response of mine:  

    Given that CIG is a public figure the onus is on them to prove actual malice, i.e. The Escapist new the statements to be false but printed them regardless. Given that the Escapist is backing their article I would imagine they are confident in their sources. This is at least true in the US. 

    But legal action was also threatened in the UK (where I hark from). In the UK you merely need to prove that the allegations are false (i.e. there is no actual malice burden), but for CIG to pursue the Escapist in the UK, the Escapist would need to have holdings there.  

    I don't know what the truth of this, I do not have any more inside knowledge than you do. I am merely commenting on the legal process that will likely follow. But please feel free to throw around random allegations to distract from the (actually quite interesting) subject at hand.  

    And the letter from CIG's co-founder was stupid and ill-conceived. If they had instructed lawyers, the lawyers would not have allowed him to send it. 

  • LydarSynnLydarSynn Member UncommonPosts: 181

    Whether this company is in trouble or not, I do not know. Usually when there is smoke, there is fire to one degree or another. This is why my personal policy is to never, ever give money for products which I cannot see or use.

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,183
    Why did Sandi said: "...I have been running the project's marketing in it's interity, up until now..."

    Does that mean she quit? :open_mouth: 
    So is she quitting?

    Rumour has that she was about to quit on stage and Erin interrupted her.
    (according to Derek Smart's twitter)

    Something is rocking that boat, and not in a good way.

    If she was... would you blame her...? I have seen public figures fold for a lot less than this rather ugly campaign. Things always change once it gets take to a personal/family level. 

    But as others have mentioned... I would not use DS evaluation of the situation as grounds for anything.. he has what we could call a strong bias in the case. Some could even argue that eh sees what he wants to see. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • salaciouscrumbssalaciouscrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 169
    LydarSynn said:

    Whether this company is in trouble or not, I do not know. Usually when there is smoke, there is fire to one degree or another. This is why my personal policy is to never, ever give money for products which I cannot see or use.

    Prudent philosophy. Only problem is, there is no evidence of "smoke" aside from a big delay to release. All the rest is bullshit conspiracy theories with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.


  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    We had a meaningful discussion for a while and now the hate and mud slinging is back.

    I watched the whole presentation and will give my opinion of it here.

    The initial speech of Sandi Gardiner showed how invested she is into the project. Parts of her speech almost made her cry which shows how hard she was pushed by the accusations that were made by "SOURCES" and how much she is invested into her husbands work. Why do people rate that down? Do you hate so much that you search for every detail that might prove your accusations? 

    Why do some people here interpret that she quit? You dig too deep into words while loosing sight for the overall picture. And even if she does... would that make you happy (better said "Schadenfreude")? Why? What does that give you personally? A big boner how good you can be a Keyboard Warrior? For your self esteem? Petty you...

    What was shown pretty much detailed how good and steady the development has come so far. We had a presentation of SC Alpha 2.0 with some bugs (welcome to alpha testing) but it showed that the tech is in place and working. Starting in a space station, taking off, traveling to another POI, EVA out of the hornet and seeing this from the view of another player, gathering details and continuing the travel to a repair station and then to another station where some FPS fights occurred (but poorly presented by the responsible "cutter"). 

    Yes there were bugs... once again... this is alpha and a testbed for the alpha participants. 

    They showed a SQ42 trailer which detailed the facial animations which are pretty impressive. I already read elsewhere that the facial animations of L.A. Noire were much better. It's was not better but different and from a technical POV SCs facial animation is a big step and much more complex (down to blood flow and skin tone changes). To not admit that it was impressive shows ignorance and just hate towards the ambition. Also saying that money is wasted on the cast is founded on nothing but guesses. We do not know how much the cast costs but I could guess it was not cheap. Is that a problem when you want to create something truly special? It was a stretch goal the backers wanted and backed for.

    The presentation of one of the first parts of SQ42 was nice and a bit buggy (as told by Chris Roberts before the presentation multiple times) but they showed it to prove that it is there and looking quite good in my opinion. There is a game overall

    So there we are... the moaning and nitpicking will continue and "SOURCES" will not stop to defame and play it down. This will never end. And it's normal because that is what the Internet has become. A place to anonymously write what you would never do in a personal conversation or even confrontation. Emotionally based things that come out of unsatisfied people's head. Nothing against critics who can voice their concern in an appropriate manner and for everybody to understand. Critic is very important and keeps things in line. 

    I am sure if I could sit down with some of the anti-SC people and look deeply into their eyes that the masks will fall. Some of you might even cry ;) but that's ok because I will cry with you because I am no better and are able to feel with you but I do not need to hide behind a monitor. Not because I do not fear as others like to yell out but because I am self-conscious.

    I want others to succeed in their life... and if there is an asshole who eventually falls down I would always help him get up, clap his shoulder or give him a hug and say... it's ok... You are human and have emotions. 

    Oh boy... I have been much too off topic... sorry again for that. I read so many negative and stupid posts and meanings on some websites who wrote about CitizenCon... I needed to get it out somewhere. But I like watching behind people's eyes and into their brain. No need for faking.
  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 76
     It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!

    Tell me Mr. Snuffles where you get all your information from if NOT from Derek Smart? The article by the Escapist is almost Verbatim Smart.
    Second tell me how you know these anonymous witnesses are real? have they come forward and testified in anything resembling a court of law about financial mismanagement? So far all I have seen them talk about is how they hate Sandi Gardiner and Chris Roberts but they don't seem to be accounting people at all Snuffles.

    I want Solid Identifiable fact. 
    So show me Solid identifiable fact that you have Mr. Snuffles. Not rumor Innuendo or anonymous sources. Factual documentation of any of this. So far everything has been about Derek Smart allegations. I want more information that YOU have.

    Show me.

    Cheers,
    Ravensworth

    OK, notice the hilarity answering my post about irrational behavior always blaming Derek Smart and you answer by accusing me i get some sort of information from Derek Smart.

    Okay let's answer the first part of this. Chris Roberts is NOT my developer. I think if you asked around you would find that I have been very critical of Star Citizen not reaching it's Goals and Chris Roberts making promises he didn't keep with regard to the FPS module. I am Not a backer of the game.

    So the irrational behavior seems to be following the alleged evidence of the Escapist magazine. So far they have not answered CIG's letter or shown to the journalist press any of their evidence.

    You accuse people of Cult like behavior. I think that can be said of both camps and since I reside in neither I don't think I qualify.

    Quote for you again
    Mr. Snuffles
    "  The issue i see is merging all of them together because i am pretty sure there is no PC that would be able to run such a game effectively. Single player probably with high end systems, multiplayer however, pretty sure it's a problem."

    Are you a Programmer or game designer. What sort of expertise do your bring to this topic other than being an end game user?

    I am asking these thing because I am trying to point out the futility of the "Average Joe" trying to report facts instead of opinion. though to be fair you used the words "pretty sure" so maybe that was just more troll  bait.

    Next. Calming down. Unlike most rabid fan boys or haters as a Journalist I am calm. I don't really care. I just want the real story to be true. So far we know no facts. At one point Either DS or The Escapist claimed that they had seen CIG name Badges. Well we know that is a lie. Why because CIG does not issue name badges and I have verified that as have other journalists. Now if you claim as a source of fact checking that you did something that turns out to be a lie, then your entire system of fact checking come into question. I would point you to the Rolling Stone Article about the University of Virginia.

    image
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