I don't know man... There always were and continue to be many things about WOW that weren't done in my preferred way: cartoony, too much zany humor, underdeveloped PVP... many more.
But I can't take away from the fact that it has been at times a very fun game with interesting and varied class mechanics, a world that felt huge and especially Blizzard's willingness to change and adapt with the times (some would consider the end product of that a bad thing, but their willingness to change is, IMO, a very good thing.)
It's not my favorite nor do I do any more with it nowadays than just drop in for a short visit after a new expansion, but it has dominated the MMORPG market for a decade for good reason. IMO, no other MMO deserves number 1 more than WOW.
I cant disagree with you but the reason I would be sad if it won 1st place is because as much as they made the market we are in today with so many MMOs, they also made the market we are in today with so many cookie cutter MMOs. They really are the best and the worst of MMOs all in one package. But they did eat up 6 years + of my gaming time lol. Only other game I played that long was EQ1. My heart still loves EQ1 more.
Is it truly the fault of Blizzard that so many others decided to copy their method to attempt to cash in? I see people blame Blizzard and WoW for the cookie-cutter mmo fiasco we've had for the last decade, but in reality they have zero control over other projects.
Investors and publishers are the primary culprits here, as they saw the money Blizzard was making with WoW and wanted to cash in. Development teams went along and most made very little attempt to truly innovate on the previous model to move it forward. Unfortunately, they couldn't see the forest for the trees.
Additionally, the player community is partially to blame as well. How many times have we seen people piss and moan about a game being a WoW-clone. When someone does something different, people piss and moan that it's missing X and Y from WoW.
Corporate greed along with gamers wanting to get their fix in just the right way are to blame for the abysmal state of the genre over the last decade.
On the bright side, there are some good single player and multiplayer games coming out that look super fun and innovative.
Half the people posting probably never played some of these games, or completely biased toward some. This list is for amusement purposes and nothing else, so I would not sweat it.
Bingo. Plus it's voted on just by writers. What I'll likely do is take the 35 when we're all said and done and host another survey to have the community rank theirs and compare.
Well there is the problem because most writers don't actually play most of the games they write about either. They play something for a day or a week and write all kinds of biased opinions to suck up to developers. No real MMO player would put FF14 ahead of DAOC, that is just idiocy. Neither GW2 or SWTOR should be in the top 5 either.
Top 5 should be EQ1, DAOC, UO, SWG and WoW in some order that people will base upon their personal preference. You could make an argument for AC or EVE in there but they never really had as wide of an appeal. Meridian 59 is a MUD, so I guess I don't even think of it in the same category.
Their opinion is biased, same as yours. It's not really possible to be completely objective when discussing something you're passionate about. Your post is a perfect example.
You said "No real mmo player would be FF14 ahead of DAoC, that is just idiocy". Why is that idiocy? The only true claim to fame DAoC has is the tremendous RvR system and that wasn't without some glaring flaws. The PvE in DAoC was fairly mediocre, and all it took was for a true gear progression system to pretty much kill off the game since so many jumped ship with ToA. FF14 on the other hand, went through a failed initial launch, rebuilt itself and has become a well regarded game. Again, not without it's flaws. The class system is pretty unique though since you can be all things with one character if you choose to be, and the combat system is pretty good. PvE in FFXIV is far superior to anything DAoC ever offered. I played DAoC for about two years, while I only lasted in FFXIV two months. I personally preferred DAoC, but I also wouldn't rank it above FFXIV on a mmo list for a myriad of reasons.
Why does SWG deserve to be top 5? It was a mmo that shut down. It had little impact on the gaming world as a whole. The only thing it's truly notable for is the NGE fiasco that people can't seem to let go.
I don't really agree that UO should be top 5 either. Just because it was one of the first doesn't automatically mean it should be a top 5 mmo of all time. It was the first mmo with IP power. The game itself was great at what it did, but the impact the game had on the genre is pretty small when looking back. It's also another game that had controversy when they made Trammel and took out the forced open world PvP aspect of the game. Other than being one of the first and the trammel controversy, there hasn't been anything super notable about UO.
I do agree that EQ1 and WoW are the two games that deserve top 5. Actually they deserve top two, in the order I listed them. EQ popularized the mmo and WoW took what EQ did and went numerous steps further with it. Of course, that's my bias talking. Although, I never played EQ.
Wow will be number 1...simply because if it wasn't for WoW you wouldn't have 90% of the MMOs that are out there today. EQ should be number 1 or 2 because it's the one that started making MMOs cool to play.
Cool is subjective. From my gaming circle only carebears and sheep played EQ. Real MMOs had PvP/PK systems.
Wait, what, EQ1 had Rallos Zek, a PVP server......in fact I think it even had some of the world firsts, if not only kills on some PVE content as well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This list is ridiculous. I hate EvE but for that game to not be in the top 3 let alone top 5 is absurd. Also FFXIV, I like the game but whats so innovative about it?
Hard to take a list like this serious, was a joke from the get go.
Eve is a niche game....It has done well but not top 5 sorry....Point and click and no avatar
People are acting like this list is based on facts e.g. "This list is trash. OP must have never played my favorite games. My list is better."
I can't believe this needs to be explained, but it's list based on freaking opinions, people. Share yours, but don't be surprised that the list doesn't match up with your "facts."
I don't know man... There always were and continue to be many things about WOW that weren't done in my preferred way: cartoony, too much zany humor, underdeveloped PVP... many more.
But I can't take away from the fact that it has been at times a very fun game with interesting and varied class mechanics, a world that felt huge and especially Blizzard's willingness to change and adapt with the times (some would consider the end product of that a bad thing, but their willingness to change is, IMO, a very good thing.)
It's not my favorite nor do I do any more with it nowadays than just drop in for a short visit after a new expansion, but it has dominated the MMORPG market for a decade for good reason. IMO, no other MMO deserves number 1 more than WOW.
I cant disagree with you but the reason I would be sad if it won 1st place is because as much as they made the market we are in today with so many MMOs, they also made the market we are in today with so many cookie cutter MMOs. They really are the best and the worst of MMOs all in one package. But they did eat up 6 years + of my gaming time lol. Only other game I played that long was EQ1. My heart still loves EQ1 more.
Is it truly the fault of Blizzard that so many others decided to copy their method to attempt to cash in? I see people blame Blizzard and WoW for the cookie-cutter mmo fiasco we've had for the last decade, but in reality they have zero control over other projects.
Investors and publishers are the primary culprits here, as they saw the money Blizzard was making with WoW and wanted to cash in. Development teams went along and most made very little attempt to truly innovate on the previous model to move it forward. Unfortunately, they couldn't see the forest for the trees.
Additionally, the player community is partially to blame as well. How many times have we seen people piss and moan about a game being a WoW-clone. When someone does something different, people piss and moan that it's missing X and Y from WoW.
Corporate greed along with gamers wanting to get their fix in just the right way are to blame for the abysmal state of the genre over the last decade.
On the bright side, there are some good single player and multiplayer games coming out that look super fun and innovative.
Yup they are as they also did the same. Every new MMO to come out with something new and awesome, Blizzard would copy it and put it in their game before the new MMO could release. They added as much to the generic feel of MMOs as anyone. Maybe more so.
Half the people posting probably never played some of these games, or completely biased toward some. This list is for amusement purposes and nothing else, so I would not sweat it.
Bingo. Plus it's voted on just by writers. What I'll likely do is take the 35 when we're all said and done and host another survey to have the community rank theirs and compare.
Well there is the problem because most writers don't actually play most of the games they write about either. They play something for a day or a week and write all kinds of biased opinions to suck up to developers. No real MMO player would put FF14 ahead of DAOC, that is just idiocy. Neither GW2 or SWTOR should be in the top 5 either.
Top 5 should be EQ1, DAOC, UO, SWG and WoW in some order that people will base upon their personal preference. You could make an argument for AC or EVE in there but they never really had as wide of an appeal. Meridian 59 is a MUD, so I guess I don't even think of it in the same category.
Their opinion is biased, same as yours. It's not really possible to be completely objective when discussing something you're passionate about. Your post is a perfect example.
You said "No real mmo player would be FF14 ahead of DAoC, that is just idiocy". Why is that idiocy? The only true claim to fame DAoC has is the tremendous RvR system and that wasn't without some glaring flaws. The PvE in DAoC was fairly mediocre, and all it took was for a true gear progression system to pretty much kill off the game since so many jumped ship with ToA. FF14 on the other hand, went through a failed initial launch, rebuilt itself and has become a well regarded game. Again, not without it's flaws. The class system is pretty unique though since you can be all things with one character if you choose to be, and the combat system is pretty good. PvE in FFXIV is far superior to anything DAoC ever offered. I played DAoC for about two years, while I only lasted in FFXIV two months. I personally preferred DAoC, but I also wouldn't rank it above FFXIV on a mmo list for a myriad of reasons.
Why does SWG deserve to be top 5? It was a mmo that shut down. It had little impact on the gaming world as a whole. The only thing it's truly notable for is the NGE fiasco that people can't seem to let go.
I don't really agree that UO should be top 5 either. Just because it was one of the first doesn't automatically mean it should be a top 5 mmo of all time. It was the first mmo with IP power. The game itself was great at what it did, but the impact the game had on the genre is pretty small when looking back. It's also another game that had controversy when they made Trammel and took out the forced open world PvP aspect of the game. Other than being one of the first and the trammel controversy, there hasn't been anything super notable about UO.
I do agree that EQ1 and WoW are the two games that deserve top 5. Actually they deserve top two, in the order I listed them. EQ popularized the mmo and WoW took what EQ did and went numerous steps further with it. Of course, that's my bias talking. Although, I never played EQ.
You ever watch the credits in EQ? Funny how in the credits they thank Ultima Online and it's producers.
I fear for the top 5. A lot of these games already listed were far ahead of their time and set the foundation for every game that is out now. Of course it is a very subjective list as there is no real criteria for why the games are where they are on the list.
FWIW, GW2 wouldn't even make my list. But for the list displayed here, I was surprised to see Rift place there. But when I read the paragraph where it said the gameplay was even stronger than before, I realized the reviewer hasn't actually played the game in the last year or so. It only takes a casual check to read the complaints and realize that most of the current actives are not very happy right now. So this list is pretty much crap which is what most of us reading this had thought. Just a filler series. Can you guys get back to what you used to do? You've really lost your way.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
1. World of Warcraft 2. Everquest 3. Star Wars Galaxies 4. Guild Wars 2 5. ESO
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
These lists typically cater to the crowd that was introduced to MMOs through WoW and there is a lot more of them around now. If EverQuest ever topped one of these lists, I'd be surprised.
EQ was my first MMO experience and my nostalgia usually revolves around it. I would put it as my own #1 for this reason, but it had a lot going for it in the years leading up to WoW's release (EQ had already survived and continued growing after DAoC released in 2001).
EQ has changed so much since those early years and for a lot of reasons, it's an entirely different game now. This is why people that try it now quite often don't understand why us older players loved it so much. It's one of those "You had to be there" moments. /shrug
Guess:
5. SW:ToR
4. GW2
3. SWG
2. EQ1
1. WoW
SW:ToR I'm not sure of, but I'm not sure what else to put in its place. The other four are probably virtual locks to make the top five, and I think WoW and EQ1 are locks to be the top two in that order.
Since Swtor was released I'm constantly split by Swtor (currently my no1) and Wow (once for me indisputable champ), second and third place I guess Gw2 and Rift, ... for the rest nothing was enough fun to keep me in.
This list is ridiculous. I hate EvE but for that game to not be in the top 3 let alone top 5 is absurd. Also FFXIV, I like the game but whats so innovative about it?
Hard to take a list like this serious, was a joke from the get go.
Eve is a niche game....It has done well but not top 5 sorry....Point and click and no avatar
While I don't disagree that EVE is a niche game it recently implemented WASD ship movement and has had Avatars for many years now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
5. SWG - it was well loved, but also kind of a mess that ruined itself long before the NGE/CU 4. GW2 - very successful and much loved, but didn't become the new king 3. SW:TOR - like GW2 very successful still, but didn't cure cancer or revive Jesus 2. WoW - hail to the king baby 1. EQ - because most of the games on the list wouldn't be here if it wasn't for EQ
I just cant imagine ESO not making the top 35 list... same however goes for these 5 games and city of Heroes, GW1 and some others..
EQ1 beongs there at spot 1, because it is the grandmother of all current MMO's.. WoW and allmost ll others are actually copycats of the lovely EQ. But thats maybe us oldtimers sentiments..
Top position by anything else then EQ or WoW, is unthinkable.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Dark Age of Camelot only at #9? I'm a little shocked at that. A game that had so much variety and the best PVP model even to this day.
I also think you should have reserved the "niche" comment for Eve Online.
Comments
Investors and publishers are the primary culprits here, as they saw the money Blizzard was making with WoW and wanted to cash in. Development teams went along and most made very little attempt to truly innovate on the previous model to move it forward. Unfortunately, they couldn't see the forest for the trees.
Additionally, the player community is partially to blame as well. How many times have we seen people piss and moan about a game being a WoW-clone. When someone does something different, people piss and moan that it's missing X and Y from WoW. Corporate greed along with gamers wanting to get their fix in just the right way are to blame for the abysmal state of the genre over the last decade.
On the bright side, there are some good single player and multiplayer games coming out that look super fun and innovative.
You said "No real mmo player would be FF14 ahead of DAoC, that is just idiocy". Why is that idiocy? The only true claim to fame DAoC has is the tremendous RvR system and that wasn't without some glaring flaws. The PvE in DAoC was fairly mediocre, and all it took was for a true gear progression system to pretty much kill off the game since so many jumped ship with ToA. FF14 on the other hand, went through a failed initial launch, rebuilt itself and has become a well regarded game. Again, not without it's flaws. The class system is pretty unique though since you can be all things with one character if you choose to be, and the combat system is pretty good. PvE in FFXIV is far superior to anything DAoC ever offered. I played DAoC for about two years, while I only lasted in FFXIV two months. I personally preferred DAoC, but I also wouldn't rank it above FFXIV on a mmo list for a myriad of reasons.
Why does SWG deserve to be top 5? It was a mmo that shut down. It had little impact on the gaming world as a whole. The only thing it's truly notable for is the NGE fiasco that people can't seem to let go.
I don't really agree that UO should be top 5 either. Just because it was one of the first doesn't automatically mean it should be a top 5 mmo of all time. It was the first mmo with IP power. The game itself was great at what it did, but the impact the game had on the genre is pretty small when looking back. It's also another game that had controversy when they made Trammel and took out the forced open world PvP aspect of the game. Other than being one of the first and the trammel controversy, there hasn't been anything super notable about UO.
I do agree that EQ1 and WoW are the two games that deserve top 5. Actually they deserve top two, in the order I listed them. EQ popularized the mmo and WoW took what EQ did and went numerous steps further with it. Of course, that's my bias talking. Although, I never played EQ.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't believe this needs to be explained, but it's list based on freaking opinions, people. Share yours, but don't be surprised that the list doesn't match up with your "facts."
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I self identify as a monkey.
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Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
WoW will get #1 just based on numbers.
These lists typically cater to the crowd that was introduced to MMOs through WoW and there is a lot more of them around now. If EverQuest ever topped one of these lists, I'd be surprised.
EQ was my first MMO experience and my nostalgia usually revolves around it. I would put it as my own #1 for this reason, but it had a lot going for it in the years leading up to WoW's release (EQ had already survived and continued growing after DAoC released in 2001).
EQ has changed so much since those early years and for a lot of reasons, it's an entirely different game now. This is why people that try it now quite often don't understand why us older players loved it so much. It's one of those "You had to be there" moments. /shrug
Just saying....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)