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Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes!

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  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Some relevant entertainment here:



    That was entertaining. 
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,630
    Erillion said:

    So while yes they are successful together (not saying otherwise), they also have a history of not so good project management. If you have studied project management you will know that project management is about Time and Scope as well, not just Deliverables. If it was just deliverables that you are counting then yet CR and ER is doing fine, but you are ignoring the Time and Scope part.

    Time and scope = resource required.


    Yes, I am aware of the Project Management Triangle. Its been my job for the last two decades.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle

    I am not ignoring the things you mentioned. But you may want to take a closer look at the last 10 years of Erin Robert's successful project management career ... which had basically nothing to do with Wing Commander or Freelancer, but instead one successful LEGO computer game after the other. Maybe he just got better, learning from the mistakes he made early in his career ?

    In my opinion Erin knows what he is doing. And Chris knows what makes SC great - better than other games.

    I (personally) give them the time needed to prove it.


    Have fun
    I'll have to support you here.   I asked around the old Origin folks I know, and while they pretty uniformly dislike and have little respect for Chris, no one really has anything bad to say about Erin.   And Erin is in the unique position of being relatively competent and apparently capable of working with Chris.   Personally, imo it's a good hire.

    Especially since those much ballyhoo'd industry professionals jumped ship within a year of seeing what things were really like on the inside.   Remember discussing that when they came in?


    Like I told you a long time ago, 'Long and bumpy road....'

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 992
    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    I agree, but the problem is, where's the investigation? At this point it's just finger pointing and accusation by faceless people, yeah they know who they are, but what use is that to everyone else? Another question is, why didn't they take this straight to a DA? Why wait for one to become interested? IMHO why not just do it right instead of this obscure hidden way. 
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Herase said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    I agree, but the problem is, where's the investigation? At this point it's just finger pointing and accusation by faceless people, yeah they know who they are, but what use is that to everyone else? Another question is, why didn't they take this straight to a DA? Why wait for one to become interested? IMHO why not just do it right instead of this obscure hidden way. 
    Because you can't just walk up to a DA and tell them what to do. These are busy officials that can't just drop every other case on their desk. I am pretty sure that after these federal crime accusations have been printed that someone is already looking into it and deciding if it is enough to pursue it legally. These things usually don't just go away.

    Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away. They can also address these issue at citizenCon and make it a huge media circus by going on stage and showing their black and 40+ employees for example. Not that this proofs anything but it will satisfy most of the sheep to buy the next ships that go on sale.

    I am looking forward to Saturday. It will be interesting to see how they approach this.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,026

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,167

    Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away.
    I am pretty sure it has to go to court before anyone need to defend anything... And going by your logic there could be years before this case get priority.. as you said.. they are busy people. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    tawess said:

    Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away.
    I am pretty sure it has to go to court before anyone need to defend anything... And going by your logic there could be years before this case get priority.. as you said.. they are busy people. 
    Their "lawyer" threatened to file suit if The Escapist does not apologize and retract the story. So now they need to make good on the thread or look like a paper tiger. There is a difference between filing a civil or criminal suit and the DA stepping in prosecuting. These are completely different things.

    If CIG files a suit we know within 48 hours because it is part of the public record. After that we will most likely hear nothing for quite some time. Filing a suit takes a couple of days. You fill out the legal form, have your attorney send it to the venue (courthouse) you want to file at, have someone server the defendant and you are done. Then you wait for the hearing.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    edited October 2015
    Asm0deus said:

    And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell.  Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation.  So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.  

    While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,026
    Asm0deus said:

    And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell.  Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation.  So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.  

    While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).

    Did you even watch the video?  The pre concept junk at the end wasn't really the point of it. As for ED which I backed as well it's a different type of game and while I enjoy it is indeed a mile wide and an inch deep.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,607
    edited October 2015
    I will toss out a keyword here because i still see many people don't do it....."think"

    First of all none of know anything for fact,unless we can read the mind of said female.
    I just want to point out that people do need to think before making a conclusion.

    So dud in the video shows some videos of Black people and older people.Ahemmm>think

    You THINK perhaps it is possible she had NO part of their hiring?She was only brought into the forefront AFTER the fact.It is possible somebody else hired them ,example Chris or who knows who else.At least one of those other employees shown was a long time friend/working associate of Chris ,so again she would have no part in that.

    videos....Well this assumption again would claim that just because you see some people smiling in a video that  it is that way 100% of the time,which would be FALSE...bzzzzzzzz wrong.Example they might have video tape or any video shown to the public is no way in hell going to show anything negative,i mean seriously c'mon now.My point is that it is VERY easy to search and pick out some video footage that supports your theory,it still does not make it FACT.

    Things change over the course of time,bosses can be happy great one day and sons of Beeotches the next.

    One last comment again only because i have been around a very long time and seen things.Now this is of course not fact just an objective viewpoint by me.It is VERY possible that when things started to struggle at CGI and Chris brought his successful brother and wife on board or promote them to the top,Chris's demeanor could change a LOT.Chris does not want to appear as a failure to his wife or Brother so it is VERY possible those bosses could get agitated angry to the point of not being the same cheerful people from day 1.When you are the face of the operation there is a lot of pressure to succeed and always look good,if things don't happen smoothly there is a tendency to BLAME others.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Asm0deus said:
    Asm0deus said:

    And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell.  Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation.  So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.  

    While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).

    Did you even watch the video?  The pre concept junk at the end wasn't really the point of it. As for ED which I backed as well it's a different type of game and while I enjoy it is indeed a mile wide and an inch deep.
    I watched it, its a bunch of nothing, because CIG are not even close to implementing any of the features used by that ship, nor is that ship even close to them even thinking of making it.  Its nothing but a bunch of hype created to sell ships.  
  • AirwrenAirwren Member UncommonPosts: 648

    I'm very curious to see if CIG makes good on their threat to TheEscapist.  I personally don't think they will for various sticky reasons. 

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    edited October 2015
    Sandi Gardiner has been part of the project since day one and was responsible, amongst other things like hiring, for the KS and CF campaign and therefor the marketing of the project. 

    Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).

    What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game? 

    It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask. 

    Nothing stops the Cole train baby! 

    But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way. 

    Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.

    After all, the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.

    edit update:

    Chris Roberts could have taken a different part (like ED for example) and build on existing and proven tech and just say: 

    I want to build a new Wing Commander and it will be done in 2015.

    But he wanted to do things new... push the boundaries of what was possible in the gaming industry at that time. Something he had done before (even if was a long time ago).

    And of course, when you try something completely new, you cannot plan everything and things go wrong and not according to plan. That is the prize of doing things new and in a different way. Doing things completely new is definitely prone to errors. Heck...  there is no development if no errors are made. But if I want to play a "new" CoD, FIFA, AC, FC then that's ok. I enjoyed most AC games and the first CoDs. FIFA lost me a long time ago. 

    Before Star Citizen the PC gaming industry was lagging a bit behind especially in the space sim genre. 

    Since Chris Roberts first announcement there have been plenty of games targeting the space game genre (does not matter if for PC and/or consoles) that could have been inspired by this. Some developers even clearly admitted that.

    And no one can deny that people enthusiastically yelled YES and flooded him with money which surprised everybody. That's how Star Citizen became the biggest crowdfunding project in history with two world records.

    It it was an outcry by gamers who were sick of yearly game releases, the same game mechanics with updated graphics and no real aspiration and inspiration. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy a lot of games but in the end it felt like grinding like in MMOs (like searching the map for collectibles, cleaning the map of enemy camps, etc.). Sometimes it felt like a real waste of time.

    And I'm not declining that there have been games that did something new and therefor stood out.

    So Chris Roberts took the hard way... and hard it is as we can see by the huuuuuge amount of discussions all around the web... no way of declining that.

    There are always two sides of the medal.

    When I play I want to sit there with my mouth open, emotionally attached and immersed... not feeling hypnotized and somehow bored.

    Can Star Citizen do that for me/us?

    I do not know for sure. But maybe in that big present under the Christmas tree there is what I wished for. 
    Post edited by SmartySmart on
  • AirwrenAirwren Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Sandi Gardiner has been part of the project since day one and was responsible, amongst other things like hiring, for the KS and CF campaign and therefor the marketing of the project. 

    Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).

    What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game? 

    It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask. 

    Nothing stops the Cole train baby! 

    But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way. 

    Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.

    After all the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.

    I agree with most of what you said here.  I will say this, and this is my personal opinion, hype =/= excitement.  Hype to me is almost a bad word, as it generally means over promising and under delivering.  This website itself does this from time to time, talking about how wonderful a games supposed 'features' are going to be and in reality they are not at all as described.  Be excited, nothing wrong with that. :D
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Sandi Gardiner has been part of the project since day one and was responsible, amongst other things like hiring, for the KS and CF campaign and therefor the marketing of the project. 

    Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).

    What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game? 

    It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask. 

    Nothing stops the Cole train baby! 

    But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way. 

    Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.

    After all, the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.

    edit update:

    Chris Roberts could have taken a different part (like ED for example) and build on existing and proven tech and just say: 

    I want to build a new Wing Commander and it will be done in 2015.

    But he wanted to do things new... push the boundaries of what was possible in the gaming industry at that time. Something he had done before (even if was a long time ago).

    And of course, when you try something completely new, you cannot plan everything and things go wrong and not according to plan. That is the prize of doing things new and in a different way. Doing things completely new is definitely prone to errors. Heck...  there is no development if no errors are made. But if I want to play a "new" CoD, FIFA, AC, FC then that's ok. I enjoyed most AC games and the first CoDs. FIFA lost me a long time ago. 

    Before Star Citizen the PC gaming industry was lagging a bit behind especially in the space sim genre. 

    Since Chris Roberts first announcement there have been plenty of games targeting the space game genre (does not matter if for PC and/or consoles) that could have been inspired by this. Some developers even clearly admitted that.

    And no one can deny that people enthusiastically yelled YES and flooded him with money which surprised everybody. That's how Star Citizen became the biggest crowdfunding project in history with two world records.

    It it was an outcry by gamers who were sick of yearly game releases, the same game mechanics with updated graphics and no real aspiration and inspiration. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy a lot of games but in the end it felt like grinding like in MMOs (like searching the map for collectibles, cleaning the map of enemy camps, etc.). Sometimes it felt like a real waste of time.

    And I'm not declining that there have been games that did something new and therefor stood out.

    So Chris Roberts took the hard way... and hard it is as we can see by the huuuuuge amount of discussions all around the web... no way of declining that.

    There are always two sides of the medal.

    When I play I want to sit there with my mouth open, emotionally attached and immersed... not feeling hypnotized and somehow bored.

    Can Star Citizen do that for me/us?

    I do not know for sure. But maybe in that big present under the Christmas tree there is what I wished for. 
    No I think nothing is going to stop people from looking where the money went. That is the biggest problem CR has at this time. Way to many questions need to be answered.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    edited October 2015
    It also boils down to our own expectations. 

    Yes hype can can be a bad thing... but it depends on people's expectations. Sometimes I am hyped but after checking my expectations I am mostly only excited.

    Yes there are questions that people want answered. No problem with that. But drawing the devil on the wall is the opposite of being hyped.

    There will come the time where all our answers will be answered. Be it in responses by CR or "sources" or by the release or not release of Star Citizen.

    But let's give Chris Roberts and whole CIG the chance to prove it. And in my opinion this will take time... as all things that are done in a new, complex and unexpected way.
  • AirwrenAirwren Member UncommonPosts: 648
    It also boils down to our own expectations. 

    Yes hype can can be a bad thing... but it depends on people's expectations. Sometimes I am hyped but after checking my expectations I am mostly only excited.

    Yes there are questions that people want answered. No problem with that. But drawing the devil on the wall is the opposite of being hyped.

    There will come the time where all our answers will be answered. Be it in responses by CR or "sources" or by the release or not release of Star Citizen.

    But let's give Chris Roberts and whole CIG the chance to prove it. And in my opinion this will take time... as all things that are done in a new, complex and unexpected way.
    Again, would have to agree with your outlook on it.  I remembered reading where someone stated that most AAA MMO titles sit in development for 5 or more years because of the complexity of building the game world, quest, voice acting, and all that goes into building games of this type.  The biggest thing I think CR and CIG may have done that shot themselves in the foot was not tempering the time it would take to build a game of this size.  I don't think that's criminal though
  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Airwren said:
    It also boils down to our own expectations. 

    Yes hype can can be a bad thing... but it depends on people's expectations. Sometimes I am hyped but after checking my expectations I am mostly only excited.

    Yes there are questions that people want answered. No problem with that. But drawing the devil on the wall is the opposite of being hyped.

    There will come the time where all our answers will be answered. Be it in responses by CR or "sources" or by the release or not release of Star Citizen.

    But let's give Chris Roberts and whole CIG the chance to prove it. And in my opinion this will take time... as all things that are done in a new, complex and unexpected way.
    Again, would have to agree with your outlook on it.  I remembered reading where someone stated that most AAA MMO titles sit in development for 5 or more years because of the complexity of building the game world, quest, voice acting, and all that goes into building games of this type.  The biggest thing I think CR and CIG may have done that shot themselves in the foot was not tempering the time it would take to build a game of this size.  I don't think that's criminal though
    I agree... they underestimated the sheer work that needs to be done to accomplish what they strive for. But that is part of the process like in many projects all over the world. A lot of projects overall take more time and money... even if proved mechanics are used because sometimes the scope is hard to catch (or people want to squeeze more money out of it)

    One bad example is the German airport in Berlin. The amount of mismanagement is horrifying to the degree that there are voices who say it's "cheaper" to build it completely new.

    But considering CIGs finances, their ambition and workload I am still pretty confident. There are some good calculations floating around Reddit that are more founded than "SOURCES" claims. And these suggest that enough money is left. 

    Of course critics of CIGs money spending would like to have their questions answered but what would happen? Everyone would give his own opinion... and all those opinions and demanding then could never be satisfied because we would have too many of them.

    People do not trust easily these days... just look what's happening in the world today where we have the feeling to ripped off at almost every corner.

    But I still trust CR because his heart is, in my humble opinion, in the right place and he really really wants to play his own game and is a passionate gamer. People who see a rip off/scam in him should tighten their knowledge of human nature or should ask themselves what kind of people they are... just my two cents in this regard.
  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    What credible sources. So far all sources have been anonymous. Derek Smart has been caught playing fast and loose with the truth in regards to FTC complaints which he said there were many and none have surfaced. A DA becomes interested in what? Federal Jurisdiction is not a matter for a district attorney.

    Chris Roberts owns CIG it is hard to embezzle from yourself and he can set his own salary. The man wasn't poor when he started this venture. 

    Let's review what we know so far. 
    1. The Game is Late. (um Yeah it's a Kickstarter game that is now funded 45x the original goal duh! but they do owe you a reasonable delivery date of Squadron 42)

    2. Derek Smart has made Many unsubstantiated claims without solid evidence of ANY third party going on record saying the company or the game is in trouble.

    3. Mr Smart has made a huge Number of unfounded allegations against Ms. Sandi Gardiner. They are unfounded mostly because they are opinion based. IE she is not qualified to be the marketing manager. Well she managed to Market 90 million dollars worth of what you call Vapor ware Mr. Smart and you haven't sold that much of your own games.

    4. Chris Roberts Largely tried to ignore Derek Smart until the press started reprinting what he said. Personally I think the journalism both here in the last 2 days and on the Escapist has been shoddy at best and inexcusable at worst. MMORPG.COM has allowed an author to make some accusations that have no foundation in fact and are opinion only. This could lead them into real trouble. It's called Libel.

    5. Nobody has ANY facts that have been laid open and bare and CIG does not have to open their doors books or any other part of their company to satisfy the internet hordes curiosity. They must deliver a game or the FTC or a State Attorney General can get involved in the United States. NONE of that has happened yet publicly.

    I hope @thebillmurphy would contact me so someone can write a reasonable article on this. I am not a backer not a fan of CIG or Chris Roberts. I think he owes his public a game and now.

    image
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    Saxx0n said:
    Saxx0n said:
    Brenics said:

    That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.

    But people still need to follow the money.

    An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.

    Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?

    You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.

    There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.

    If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
    You missed the point.

    Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
    There have been credible sources. That is enough.

    If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.

    I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
    What credible sources. So far all sources have been anonymous. Derek Smart has been caught playing fast and loose with the truth in regards to FTC complaints which he said there were many and none have surfaced. A DA becomes interested in what? Federal Jurisdiction is not a matter for a district attorney.

    Chris Roberts owns CIG it is hard to embezzle from yourself and he can set his own salary. The man wasn't poor when he started this venture. 

    Let's review what we know so far. 
    1. The Game is Late. (um Yeah it's a Kickstarter game that is now funded 45x the original goal duh! but they do owe you a reasonable delivery date of Squadron 42)

    2. Derek Smart has made Many unsubstantiated claims without solid evidence of ANY third party going on record saying the company or the game is in trouble.

    3. Mr Smart has made a huge Number of unfounded allegations against Ms. Sandi Gardiner. They are unfounded mostly because they are opinion based. IE she is not qualified to be the marketing manager. Well she managed to Market 90 million dollars worth of what you call Vapor ware Mr. Smart and you haven't sold that much of your own games.

    4. Chris Roberts Largely tried to ignore Derek Smart until the press started reprinting what he said. Personally I think the journalism both here in the last 2 days and on the Escapist has been shoddy at best and inexcusable at worst. MMORPG.COM has allowed an author to make some accusations that have no foundation in fact and are opinion only. This could lead them into real trouble. It's called Libel.

    5. Nobody has ANY facts that have been laid open and bare and CIG does not have to open their doors books or any other part of their company to satisfy the internet hordes curiosity. They must deliver a game or the FTC or a State Attorney General can get involved in the United States. NONE of that has happened yet publicly.

    I hope @thebillmurphy would contact me so someone can write a reasonable article on this. I am not a backer not a fan of CIG or Chris Roberts. I think he owes his public a game and now.
    The sources are not anonymous, they are verified ex-employees that chose to not have their name printed. Since you don't know the difference this discussion is pretty pointless.

    You don't know the financials of CR. We can do know however that Chris Roberts has not made a game on over a decade. He failed with his movie studio and even got sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 Million over mismanagement of funds for a movie. I would say this was a windfall for CR if anything.

    The rest is about Derek Smart so i won't even go into it because it has nothing to do with the article. The obsession with Derek Smart as the boogeyman for everything is really very interesting from a psychological point of view.

    It's really like you are all brainwashed and can't talk about anything else than Derek Smart. Go over to  and watch the chat. It's all about Derek Smart. Everyone has to chime in how much they hate him and make childish jokes.

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!


    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!


    You clearly are unaware of the full history of the man.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,954

    This is mass hysteria because one man said something bad about a computer game. Let that sink in for a minute. Someone badmouths a computer game and his developer and all the sheep start to bleak the same nonsense over and over. 

    Deeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeeeeeeeek Smaaaahaahhahahhahaart!


    You clearly are unaware of the full history of the man.
    So it's ok to look the other way when Chris Roberts past history in piss poor management in 2 different industries is brought up but mention Derek Smart's name and everything he says is a lie?
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,411
    edited October 2015
    I might not agree with what Derek Smart has to say but I do believe he has every right to say it, just as I have every right to not listen to him. It's a bit sad seeing so many people trying to shut him down.
    Free speech is a very important thing.
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