Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes!

1737476787994

Comments

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 2,915
    edited October 2015
    snip
    The charity example would still apply and if he used funds for personal things it would be embezzlement and he would go to jail. He and his company are a public figure so they have to play by the rules.

    Of cause none of the "backers" have a leg to stand on when it comes to compensation or return of their donations. But that has nothing to do with the allegations of misappropriation and embezzlement. Two completely separate things.

    The thing is with the KS terms settled it would be very easy for them to show they are working on the game etc etc as for misappropriation of funds I think that is not so easily proven especially as much of the accusations of such seem to come from KS terms or pledgers.

    I mean unless CR and family are extremely stupid and are using the CIG company credit card to pay for personal things like a trip to hawai etc etc

    Things like a meal at XYZ can easily explained as a meeting outside the offices, a car even a sports one can be said to be for getting around when at XYZ office so and so forth. 

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited October 2015
    BMBender said:


    Oh they did for a year, they did so QUIETLY they didn't post 15 page rants on the evils of the EPA a year ago when they started asking questions
    Well that's what I'd call tooth and nail (IE exaggerated). I mean there's denial and then there's taking the gloves off. Consider this, if you're guilty do you want even more attention coming to yourself, by escalating the situation? As that just puts more eyes on it, meaning more eyes looking into it.

    I'm not saying CIG is innocent, that would be silly as they may not be, yet I don't see why they'd want to garner more attention to themselves if they are not. Drumming up support from their backers only goes so far, so then what?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827
    Distopia said:
    BMBender said:


    Oh they did for a year, they did so QUIETLY they didn't post 15 page rants on the evils of the EPA a year ago when they started asking questions
    Well that's what I'd call tooth and nail (IE exaggerated). I mean there's denial and then there's taking the gloves off. Consider this, if you're guilty do you want even more attention coming to yourself, by escalating the situation? As that just puts more eyes on it, meaning more eyes looking into it.

    I'm not saying CIG is innocent, that would be silly as they may not be, yet I don't see why they'd want to garner more attention to themselves if they are not. Drumming up support from their backers only goes so far, so then what?

    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 2,915
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827
    edited October 2015
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet

    No there is not<EDIT any proof I mean/EDIT>, which is why it's stupid to write rants that make you look like  1/4 the allegations are true
    EDIT
    That rant can also be included in any future court case  regarding workplace issues regarding temper or the like.

    image
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,374
    Distopia said:
    BMBender said:


    Oh they did for a year, they did so QUIETLY they didn't post 15 page rants on the evils of the EPA a year ago when they started asking questions
    Well that's what I'd call tooth and nail (IE exaggerated). I mean there's denial and then there's taking the gloves off. Consider this, if you're guilty do you want even more attention coming to yourself, by escalating the situation? As that just puts more eyes on it, meaning more eyes looking into it.

    I'm not saying CIG is innocent, that would be silly as they may not be, yet I don't see why they'd want to garner more attention to themselves if they are not. Drumming up support from their backers only goes so far, so then what?

    Pathfinder Online and Mortals Online did exactly that though.

    I guess that's more of difference between how a public company with thousands of employees and billion dollar operation runs and how private company where CEOs are not professional CEOs but are owner/founders runs, then whether what you do when you are lying or not.

    Public companies with gets better advice and the board of directors forces the CEO to take those advices.
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,310
    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet
    That's the way I see it.  This could go either way.
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet
    That's the way I see it.  This could go either way.
    To be honest this all reminds me of visiting the girlfriends Memé in the retirement home.

    I was stuck in this little seating area with two old dues and this old woman with an oxygen tank. The two old guys were arguing quietly when the one sitting next to the old lady started getting louder.

    Old Guy A talking loud "You farted!"

    Old Guy B talking at a normal tone "No I did not"

    A: a bit louder and more animated "You did! Stop lying and just admit it!"

    B: still at a normal tone "Knock it off... I didn't fart..."

    A: turning to myself and the old lady, very animated and louder "He farted! You guys can smell that, right? Lying sack of..."

    B: now getting defensive "What the hell is wrong with you?! I did not fart, I didn't even move and I have no idea what the smell is!! Stop yelling, stop screaming and shut up I am trying to watch the weather!"

    Now this went on for a while and at first was kinda funny. Old Guy A actually got up and started asking staff and other people if they heard Old Guy B ripping it and getting upset with them when they said they heard/smelled nothing, calling them liars. He would come back over and insult Old Guy B for a bit, dramatically pointing and cursing before walking off again and harassing the staff. At some point I think they either walked him back to his room or somewhere else. 

    Then I noticed the old lady with the O2 tank - she would slightly lean to the left, scrunch her face and then relax and try not to smile...

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet
    If you really look around you see the same reaction you see anytime news like this breaks, perceived guilt, otherwise it wouldn't be so one sided in terms of coverage. Like the site Seelin just linked to a few posts up, all the articles come from a position of perceived guilt, that's what sells a story, and keeps folks talking about it. IF there's nothing there there's no interest generated. Rather than consider anything the accused says as possible, it becomes a point to demonize the entire message and "rip it apart"... That keeps the sensationalism going.

    We won't see that change unless proof arises that those claims are false. Then they'll turn around in the media and start a witch hunt against the other side. Generating more clicks. The longer they can keep this going the better for them. It's just the media being the media.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 798
    Distopia said:
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet
    If you really look around you see the same reaction you see anytime news like this breaks, perceived guilt, otherwise it wouldn't be so one sided in terms of coverage. Like the site Seelin just linked to a few posts up, all the articles come from a position of perceived guilt, that's what sells a story, and keeps folks talking about it. IF there's nothing there there's no interest generated. Rather than consider anything the accused says as possible, it becomes a point to demonize the entire message and "rip it apart"... That keeps the sensationalism going.

    We won't see that change unless proof arises that those claims are false. Then they'll turn around in the media and start a witch hunt against the other side. Generating more clicks. The longer they can keep this going the better for them. It's just the media being the media.
    90 million + 4 years with basically nothing but 'demos' to show for it.  That's your narrative. 
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    With CR being good at making movies it will be very interesting what they show at CitizenCon. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,462
    This whole thing reeks to high heaven. The longer this goes on, the less I believe Chris Roberts and RSI / CIG. Idle threats make you look stupid and more guilty. I can only pray Escapist doesn't give in and fall prey to bribery. All anyone wants or needs is the simple truth which apparently is a task too difficult for Chris Roberts to handle.

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Rhoklaw said:
    This whole thing reeks to high heaven. The longer this goes on, the less I believe Chris Roberts and RSI / CIG. Idle threats make you look stupid and more guilty. I can only pray Escapist doesn't give in and fall prey to bribery. All anyone wants or needs is the simple truth which apparently is a task too difficult for Chris Roberts to handle.
    While the threat was poorly handled, it remains to be seen whether or not it was genuine.
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Rhoklaw said:
    This whole thing reeks to high heaven. The longer this goes on, the less I believe Chris Roberts and RSI / CIG. Idle threats make you look stupid and more guilty. I can only pray Escapist doesn't give in and fall prey to bribery. All anyone wants or needs is the simple truth which apparently is a task too difficult for Chris Roberts to handle.
    While the threat was poorly handled, it remains to be seen whether or not it was genuine.
    Agreed. 

    While it all could have been pointless posturing, it might also be the eye of the storm. 

    Give it time and we will see.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Brenics said:
    With CR being good at making movies 
    :anguished: heh..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Distopia said:
    Brenics said:
    With CR being good at making movies 
    :anguished: heh..
    'heh..'

    What do you mean by 'heh..'

    He has some great movies!

    For instance theres that one, ummm.. forget the name...

    *loads up imdb.com and searches 'Chris Roberts'*

    Oh... oh dear... Umm...

    Yikes...

    Anyone up for Pizza?

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,137
    Have to say I agree with this quote here

    I'd like to conclude with a little pure opinion about the situation. To be absolutely clear, this segment is clearly labeled opinion, based on professional experience, and is not intended to represent absolute claims or accusations of malicious behaviour by the author or editorial staff: Even with the claims made by the Escapist writer and staff in the follow-up, I find myself unconvinced that the information is factually correct, produced by individual interviews, or even coming from verified authors in many of the cases. Their narrative of receiving dozens of emails that just happened to match Australian glassdoor reviews (or Smart's rantings) doesn't line up with the reality of what I saw in the newsroom, and how real anonymous sources behaved. Professionally and personally, it makes me genuinely sad to see a situation in which I believe a writer is either lying, or has been "snowed" by a number of malicious individuals, and has doubled down on the false information. Beyond my disbelief of the Escapist's narrative (as provided by the writer and repeated by the editor), their live stream was patently unprofessional (perhaps the point of doing it on a live stream?), which damaged their credibility, in my eyes. They presented patently false information, declared Smart to be a trustworthy source of information (if admittedly a blowhard), repeated their accusations verbatim from the article (largely ignoring CIG's response), and openly attacked CIG and its decisions (not surprisingly, with no genuine attempt made to address Chris Roberts' points). If this level of unfounded accusation passes as "journalism" for them, I'm happy to avoid them as a "news source."



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited October 2015
    Distopia said:
    Asm0deus said:
    BMBender said:
    snip
    all you have todo is look at what going on around and answer that question. 
    If you really look impartially you see there no proof anything either way as of now.  Just a whole lots of smacktalk with nothing to back it up, at least yet
    If you really look around you see the same reaction you see anytime news like this breaks, perceived guilt, otherwise it wouldn't be so one sided in terms of coverage. Like the site Seelin just linked to a few posts up, all the articles come from a position of perceived guilt, that's what sells a story, and keeps folks talking about it. IF there's nothing there there's no interest generated. Rather than consider anything the accused says as possible, it becomes a point to demonize the entire message and "rip it apart"... That keeps the sensationalism going.

    We won't see that change unless proof arises that those claims are false. Then they'll turn around in the media and start a witch hunt against the other side. Generating more clicks. The longer they can keep this going the better for them. It's just the media being the media.
    90 million + 4 years with basically nothing but 'demos' to show for it.  That's your narrative. 
    Have to agree with this.  For shits and gigs:

    Blizzard's World of Warcraft (note it was a freshman effort for the studio, just like CIG): 4-5 years of development, ~$50 million (adjusted for inflation from 2004 to 2015) budget.  Considering the total development time, Blizzard had a working beta of the entire game created from scratch in 4 years, at the latest.

    CIG's Star Citizen: 4 years of development, ~$90 million budget (damn near twice the budget Blizzard put into WoW, adjusted for inflation).  They've got a Hangar and Dogfighting module (which CIG themselves admitted was little more than a World of Tanks-style arena), and videos of work on an FPS that will eventually be incorporated into the final project. (If I'm leaving something out here, go ahead and let me know)

    Regardless of the Escapist or DS, this comparison alone sets off alarms in my head.  We're talking a development budget that surpasses ES: Skyrim's combined development, marketing, and manufacturing budgets.  All the while it's about to surpass Skyrim's development time as well.  And there's not even an actual game world created (as far as we can see).  Just the arena areas for the Dogfighting, a Hangar, and whatever they actually have created for their FPS portion.  CitizenCon needs to bring a huge, huge amount of new reveals for me to not think this project is being managed poorly.

    image
  • dsmartdsmart Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
    If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
    ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  • sludgebeardsludgebeard Member UncommonPosts: 788
    dsmart said:
    Hey Derek! Just wanted to say Big Fan and you have been absolutely charming throughout this whole ordeal, and now, with this whole Star Citizen fiasco finally coming to a close, I have to ask, whats next?

    Personally I think we should go after P.F. Changs. You know they claim to offer affordable Chinese-American Fusion, but everytime I go there I end up paying 46.95 for a bowl of pork rice and a serious case of the meat-shits.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    dsmart said:
    Hey Derek! Just wanted to say Big Fan and you have been absolutely charming throughout this whole ordeal, and now, with this whole Star Citizen fiasco finally coming to a close, I have to ask, whats next?

    Personally I think we should go after P.F. Changs. You know they claim to offer affordable Chinese-American Fusion, but everytime I go there I end up paying 46.95 for a bowl of pork rice and a serious case of the meat-shits.
    Well, I know I'm going to sleep better tonight with the knowledge that a Guardian Angel is watching over all of us.  Much like the Three Amigos, wherever there's injustice you will find them, wherever there's suffering they'll be there, wherever liberty is threaten you will find ... Derek Smart and his aliases.
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    dsmart said:
    Hey Derek! Just wanted to say Big Fan and you have been absolutely charming throughout this whole ordeal, and now, with this whole Star Citizen fiasco finally coming to a close, I have to ask, whats next?

    Personally I think we should go after P.F. Changs. You know they claim to offer affordable Chinese-American Fusion, but everytime I go there I end up paying 46.95 for a bowl of pork rice and a serious case of the meat-shits.
    Well, I know I'm going to sleep better tonight with the knowledge that a Guardian Angel is watching over all of us.  Much like the Three Amigos, wherever there's injustice you will find them, wherever there's suffering they'll be there, wherever liberty is threaten you will find ... Derek Smart and his aliases.
    I personally like PT Barnum's " sucker born every minute" quote.

    3 Musketeers are overrated imho- 3 Stooges though? Thats good stuff =)
  • Zontas_HierospiritZontas_Hierospirit Member UncommonPosts: 57
    Am I the only one who thought of Crusader: No Remorse/ No Regret and Doom 3 when I saw this?

    they are making it seem like a reality tv show, or like the emails in crusader and doom 3

    where there is all this futuristic drama going on in emails as you wander through the halls of the future space ships and shoot robots

    I hope Star Citizen has robots, and drama, and explosions, and cyborgs, and a war against robots and humans that joined the robots.

    I want to join the resistance against the robots.
  • MellowTiggerMellowTigger Member UncommonPosts: 84
    hfztt said:
    Funny how CIG could kill all this by simply giving us some basic financial numbers. Then everyone could see they are not about to run out of money.  Yet they dont.  All the rest is just noise to distract you from that.
    All Obama has to do is show his birth certificate, and this controversy would end immediately.

    Do you see how this situation looks in translation?  It's not that the idea is wrong, just the premise that strangers ought to have access to details that nobody would even be wondering about if this "argument" hadn't been manufactured first.
    Birth certificates are public record. Everyone can access that information. Birthers are conspiracy nuts.

    This "manufactured" argument as you call it will get pretty serious IF these sources put in a deposition under oath. We are talking federal crimes and embezzlement of funds. These are not tin foil hat conspiracy accusations like those birthers. These are serious allegations.
    No.  Apparently they can be public, but it's specific to the state.  Here's one counterexample, but there are more.  Maybe not a bad metaphor for this situation, since I repeatedly see it referred to as a grey area between donating money and buying a product.

    I highlighted that "if" in your statement.  It seems to be the condition upon which all of this hullabaloo hinges.  It seems unlikely to be fulfilled, though, since anonymous sources went to press instead of to court.  Any discussion until someone files a complaint in court seems almost pointless.
Sign In or Register to comment.