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Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes!

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  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    AnnaTS said:
    So you mock the sc fanbois for being close minded and unwilling to doubt cr but you can't find an doubt of the escapist piece. Granted the testimonies can be 100% true the card is an issue that could raise a reasonable doubt.
      No i don't think it's an healthy attitude that  some have, who believe he is telling the 100% truth.
    the fact that there are people who truly give Derek Smart any sort of props is amazing

    hes just as much a clown of the industry such as Peter Molyneux: a man of big words but not much thing put down on the table .
    Yet I can't understand why people aren't grateful for him exposing CR for the scammer he is. 

    The funny part is your statement "a man of big words but not much thing put down on the table " really fits CR to a tee.

    If you think Derek smart is a hero you haven't done your homework.
    If you think Chris Roberts is a hero you haven't done your homework.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    edited October 2015
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    AnnaTS said:
    So you mock the sc fanbois for being close minded and unwilling to doubt cr but you can't find an doubt of the escapist piece. Granted the testimonies can be 100% true the card is an issue that could raise a reasonable doubt.
      No i don't think it's an healthy attitude that  some have, who believe he is telling the 100% truth.
    the fact that there are people who truly give Derek Smart any sort of props is amazing

    hes just as much a clown of the industry such as Peter Molyneux: a man of big words but not much thing put down on the table .
    Yet I can't understand why people aren't grateful for him exposing CR for the scammer he is. 

    The funny part is your statement "a man of big words but not much thing put down on the table " really fits CR to a tee.

    If you think Derek smart is a hero you haven't done your homework.
    If you think Chris Roberts is a hero you haven't done your homework.

    Never said he was. Check my previous posts. I think every one is being sketchy.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    Here's the deal. If you think one side is 100% right or wrong you need to do more research. There are very few black and white cases. Anyone who says that one side is 100% right or wrong is a fanboi who lives in an echo chamber.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,233
    edited October 2015
    AnnaTS said:
    So you mock the sc fanbois for being close minded and unwilling to doubt cr but you can't find an doubt of the escapist piece. Granted the testimonies can be 100% true the card is an issue that could raise a reasonable doubt. Edit: Sorry misread you post. What is your view point?
    I think the game may get realeased but i think some people will be disappointed with what they get, because it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of money has been wasted redisgning the game.

    they have already said they are trying to make the game different from they originally planned so it's not far fecthed that a lot of monies might of been wasted that way.

    I also said if they could stop selling ships because apparently chris has said they already have enough money for the game, so then people would be a lot less suspicious that they need more money to make the game.



    Every game in development ends up different at release then was on the first drawing board! Every single game!

    You as gamer never knew about it, because development was always hidden behind closed doors.

    You people also deeply underestimate the amount of work and time that goes into making a game of this scope.

    He also had to build up a company from scratch, hiring people, finding suitable office locations, getting development processes going and getting these in sync. Which he admitted was very challenging.
    This alone can take up 2 years to get going and not something you do overnight.

    They have made a lot of progress in the last year. It's no longer just a hangar module, where you can just walk in a room and climb in your ship.
    They released PVP combat module, they released a PVE training module, where you can walk out of your hangar to a big launch bay, go to your ship, manually or auto pilot your ship to space, fly around, shoot enemy drones (different training missions) and land your ship back in the launch bay either manually or auto pilot.
    They now also launched the first iteration of the social area module.

    This has all been added in the last 10 months or so alone and more is on the way.

    People are just impatient little brats, don't understand the development process and that things take time, that sometimes sertain design choices end up not working and need to be changed. All part of a normal development process and this doesn't happen solely in the game industry. This happens everywhere.

    And yes. People get laid off all the time. some people get fired outright, when they end up not fitting in the team. Also happens everywhere.
    Some just move on and find a new job, others are disgrunteld and feel the need to take it to the press to get attention. /shrug . Nothing new either.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    edited October 2015
    AnnaTS said:
    Actually if you look at my post history i said in a post i think the game might get made but  people might be disappointmented with the quality.

    But then again you wouldn't use that here because it doesn't suit this argument you are trying to make.

    Just FYI, the point I was trying to make was that you are being hypocritical. I've still never heard you say definitively that  you have any doubts about the escapist piece. But you mock sc fanbois for not being doubtful of cr. And now all you have to do is express any kind of doubt in the honesty of the escapist piece to prove me wrong. Simply saying there does seem to be some descrepencies is good enough.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,233
    edited October 2015
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol


    Are you a backer? No

    Have you actually followed the game? No

    Have you downloaded the game client and seen it's progress with patches and new module additions in the last year alone? No

    I can say the same thing to you. The game is not going to get released because Derek Smart says so. lol.


    Fact is. He is still hiring people. If you out of money, you cannot hire more people. As this would be all over the press if he can no longer pay people's salaries!

    Fact is. He is still working on the game, so it will still be released.

    If he truly runs out of money. Believe me. With nearly 300 employees which salaries need to be paid every single month. That is not something you can hide! Not even Houdini could do that.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015
    AnnaTS said:
    Actually if you look at my post history i said in a post i think the game might get made but  people might be disappointmented with the quality.

    But then again you wouldn't use that here because it doesn't suit this argument you are trying to make.

    Just FYI, the point I was trying to make was that you are being hypocritical. I've still never heard you say definitively that  you have any doubts about the escapist piece. But you mock sc fanbois for not being doubtful of cr. And now all you have to do is express any kind of doubt in the honesty of the escapist piece to prove me wrong. Simply saying there does seem to be some descrepencies is good enough.
    why would someone risk their job and write an arcticle that isn't true, people keep saying she didn't check the sources where she got the information from yet they still standby the article, i can not see any reason why anyone would do that she hasn't got anything to gain but she has got something to lose her job.

    Sorry but my view hasn't been clouded with what ever derek smart and chris roberts has too say this is my view.
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,310
    fyerwall said:
    H0urg1ass said:
    Jacxolope said:
    Jacxolope said:
    Most of the sources who are riding on the Derek Deadman Smarts Train are sources who never covered S.C. and they ar eusing this hype to sell advertising page views.

    A Law suit of defamation agains Deadman Smart and Ecapist would suceed with one demo of the game in court. As well as an outline of the entire processes that SC took to get to where they are.

    Deadman Smart is building a lot of powerful enemies right now. I see him fading out of this sooner then later. Words only go so far in this world.
    Yeah "Powerful enemies"/....

    Arent you guys glad we have crowdfunding to get away from those evil publishers?

    That aside, DS has the grass roots. And Powerful Enemies are going to come crashing down because they are unethical, unscrupulous and things are now  beginning to come to light.
    What happens when it comes out that Deadman Smarrt has been getting paid to cause this ruckus ? (speculation since that is what all of this is)
    Paid by who?
    Exactly ?  Isn't a worthy question to ask if someone is getting some kind of kickback for trolling SC or causing the game to fail ? I can only think of a handful of games to cater to that audience...
    I had a brief conspiracy theory moment earlier this week.  I was thinking that a great scam would be to raise 90 million in non-enforceably-refundable crowdfunding, gin up some kind of controversy from a third party like DS, and then fold up shop due to "legal fees" or other company breaking issues such as unethical hiring practices.  Then you simply abscond with tens of millions of dollars.

    Unfortunately there's a few things that don't add up in my theory such as opening other studios in Austin.  If you're planning on escaping with as much money as possible then you keep as small a team as you can and produce as little content as you can.  Also, Chris Roberts is not Stanley Kubric; there's no way he could come up with a plan this complex.
    Meanwhile a year from now:

    *Sounds of waves gently crashing on a sandy shore - Fade in to Chris Roberts sitting on a beach chair overlooking the ocean in some non-extradition country while sipping an umbrella drink*

    "I have to give it to you," Chris says to a man sitting in a chair next to him with a hat covering his face, "This worked out perfectly!"

    "Remember what I said, Chris?' The man says as he removes the hat and takes a sip of his drink
    "What's that, Derek?" Chris inquires.
    *Camera pans to reveal Derek Smart as the man in the hat*
    "There is a sucker born every minute"

    *Pan out and fade to black*

    *Credits roll*
    You stole my tin foil conspiracy! Haha :chuffed: 

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6751125/#Comment_6751125

    Hahaha but that would be funny as hell if it was true! :pleased: 
    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • MellowTiggerMellowTigger Member UncommonPosts: 84
    hfztt said:
    Funny how CIG could kill all this by simply giving us some basic financial numbers. Then everyone could see they are not about to run out of money.  Yet they dont.  All the rest is just noise to distract you from that.
    All Obama has to do is show his birth certificate, and this controversy would end immediately.

    Do you see how this situation looks in translation?  It's not that the idea is wrong, just the premise that strangers ought to have access to details that nobody would even be wondering about if this "argument" hadn't been manufactured first.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,736
    With all the posts claiming The Escapist lacks any kind of journalistic integrity, what happens if they are right? And I don't mean coincidentally, I mean, they actually did do their fact finding as they reported in the post above?

    So according to their published update, they did do their due diligence. So what makes them lack integrity? The popularity level of the subject? Seems Derek Smart may have been right all along? What does that say about those trying to silence him?

    The thing that I find so ridiculous here is the "What If" factor. "What If" all this was the truth all along? Were these accusations from the beginning really all that far fetched? The Star Citizen defense force came out of the woodwork to put down the accusers. But what if they are right? All those coming to the defense of this project haven't done anyone any favors. They've actually hurt their cause...and everyone else.

    Of course if the opposite is true and this was an elaborate plot drummed up by someone with a personal vendetta, Then that truth will also come to light and people like that will end up discrediting themselves.

    So, at the end of the day, why are some people afraid to let the truth be revealed? If I were monetarily invested here, you'd dam well better be sure I'd want to know what's what.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    edited October 2015
    AnnaTS said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Actually if you look at my post history i said in a post i think the game might get made but  people might be disappointmented with the quality.

    But then again you wouldn't use that here because it doesn't suit this argument you are trying to make.

    Just FYI, the point I was trying to make was that you are being hypocritical. I've still never heard you say definitively that  you have any doubts about the escapist piece. But you mock sc fanbois for not being doubtful of cr. And now all you have to do is express any kind of doubt in the honesty of the escapist piece to prove me wrong. Simply saying there does seem to be some descrepencies is good enough.
    why would someone risk their job and write an arcticle that isn't true, people keep saying she didn't check the sources where she got the information from yet they still standby the article, i can not see any reason why anyone would do that she hasn't got anything to gain but she has got something to lose her job.

    Sorry but my view hasn't been clouded with what ever derek smart and chris roberts has too say this is my view.
    Lol!! Ahh the irony!! I hope its not lost on  anyone else!
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,233
    AnnaTS said:
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    Forget this you're just as close minded as the cr fanbois.
    Yeah i see common sense does fall on deaf ears when it comes to crazy fans.

    And you are any less crazy then those crazy fans?

    You are not a backer of the game, haven't followed it's progress.

    All you do is blindly believing everything of The Escapist article. That's it. How is that any different?


    I have only pledged 50 bucks on Star Citizen and don't feel entitled in any way.

    I just patiently wait till this game gets released. Have plenty of other games to play in meantime.
    If he does end up running out of money and the game doesn't get released. Well tough luck! Lesson learned and I'll move on!

    If I have to recount how much money I have wasted the last years on overhyped so called AAA games by big publishers that ended up being broken, buggy pieces of trash... I would start crying.
    I have wasted over 300 dollars on two CE editions of SWTOR alone (for me and my wife). Was a big lesson learned right there.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    AnnaTS said:
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    Forget this you're just as close minded as the cr fanbois.
    Yeah i see common sense does fall on deaf ears when it comes to crazy fans.
    And finally we agree.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    With all the posts claiming The Escapist lacks any kind of journalistic integrity, what happens if they are right? And I don't mean coincidentally, I mean, they actually did do their fact finding as they reported in the post above?

    So according to their published update, they did do their due diligence. So what makes them lack integrity? The popularity level of the subject? Seems Derek Smart may have been right all along? What does that say about those trying to silence him?

    The thing that I find so ridiculous here is the "What If" factor. "What If" all this was the truth all along? Were these accusations from the beginning really all that far fetched? The Star Citizen defense force came out of the woodwork to put down the accusers. But what if they are right? All those coming to the defense of this project haven't done anyone any favors. They've actually hurt their cause...and everyone else.

    Of course if the opposite is true and this was an elaborate plot drummed up by someone with a personal vendetta, Then that truth will also come to light and people like that will end up discrediting themselves.

    So, at the end of the day, why are some people afraid to let the truth be revealed? If I were monetarily invested here, you'd dam well better be sure I'd want to know what's what.

    I think it'll ultimately depend on the severity of which accusations are truthful and CIGs reaction. There is a lot of talk here about how CR isn't very nice. Honestly, that has very little bearing on my opinion of CIG as a company. Steve Jobs was a monster, yet became universally loved. That doesn't mean he wasn't an asshat, it just means he learned how to deal with people better. WRT some of the more serious accusations, specifically against Sandi Gardiner, I would have a hard time supporting the company if the more severe accusations were substantiated and no action was taken. 

    I think it's good that CIG reacted to the article with a threat of legal action. Whether it was posturing, I don't know. Now with The Escapists response, I guess we'll see. If it goes to court, though, I'd be very surprised if The Escapist could get the people to testify. If it doesn't go to court, well... I've said before that sometimes inaction is just as bad as admitting guilt. So it's still a wait-and-see situation. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    CrazKanuk said:
    With all the posts claiming The Escapist lacks any kind of journalistic integrity, what happens if they are right? And I don't mean coincidentally, I mean, they actually did do their fact finding as they reported in the post above?

    So according to their published update, they did do their due diligence. So what makes them lack integrity? The popularity level of the subject? Seems Derek Smart may have been right all along? What does that say about those trying to silence him?

    The thing that I find so ridiculous here is the "What If" factor. "What If" all this was the truth all along? Were these accusations from the beginning really all that far fetched? The Star Citizen defense force came out of the woodwork to put down the accusers. But what if they are right? All those coming to the defense of this project haven't done anyone any favors. They've actually hurt their cause...and everyone else.

    Of course if the opposite is true and this was an elaborate plot drummed up by someone with a personal vendetta, Then that truth will also come to light and people like that will end up discrediting themselves.

    So, at the end of the day, why are some people afraid to let the truth be revealed? If I were monetarily invested here, you'd dam well better be sure I'd want to know what's what.

    I think it'll ultimately depend on the severity of which accusations are truthful and CIGs reaction. There is a lot of talk here about how CR isn't very nice. Honestly, that has very little bearing on my opinion of CIG as a company. Steve Jobs was a monster, yet became universally loved. That doesn't mean he wasn't an asshat, it just means he learned how to deal with people better. WRT some of the more serious accusations, specifically against Sandi Gardiner, I would have a hard time supporting the company if the more severe accusations were substantiated and no action was taken. 

    I think it's good that CIG reacted to the article with a threat of legal action. Whether it was posturing, I don't know. Now with The Escapists response, I guess we'll see. If it goes to court, though, I'd be very surprised if The Escapist could get the people to testify. If it doesn't go to court, well... I've said before that sometimes inaction is just as bad as admitting guilt. So it's still a wait-and-see situation. 
    The sources will not testify and Escapist will do everything they can to protect their sources. That is how it works, also I believe there are only  a handful of cases where journalists go to jail to protect sources.

    But if they do go to court that means CR will have to open the books, I do not see him willing to do that.  
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    And you call me a troll ... sheesh.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    And you call me a troll ... sheesh.
    I am not trying to troll i am trying to get a point across, which is don't believe what a guy tells you over the internet to be the 100% truth.

    Obviously some don''t get it because they are so wrapped up in what ever Chris Roberts has to tell them.


  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    AnnaTS said:
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    And you call me a troll ... sheesh.
    I am not trying to troll i am trying to get a point across, which is don't believe what a guy tells you over the internet to be the 100% truth.

    Obviously some don''t get it because they are so wrapped up in what ever Chris Roberts has to tell them.


    I think it's a fairly simple concept to grasp and should also, of course, be applied to anonymous ex-employees with an axe to grind, until more concrete evidence is presented.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    AnnaTS said:
    AnnaTS said:
    I had to check this because i first i thought it was what people where calling the game a con but now i just  searched it, how can Star Citizen be having a CitizenCon when there isn't a game realeased yet, this just seems like another way to get money from the crazy fans.

    But don't worry there is still enough money to make the game because Chris says so. lol

    I noticed it's in my home city of manchester i think i will stay in that day. lol

    And you call me a troll ... sheesh.
    I am not trying to troll i am trying to get a point across, which is don't believe what a guy tells you over the internet to be the 100% truth.

    Obviously some don''t get it because they are so wrapped up in what ever Chris Roberts has to tell them.


    I think it's a fairly simple concept to grasp and should also, of course, be applied to anonymous ex-employees with an axe to grind, until more concrete evidence is presented.
    Other people and even myself have explained why people who blow the whistle on a company like to anonymous just a little bit of common sense used may of brought other people to same reason why as well.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    edited October 2015
    And common sense would also tell you that's it's odd that all of those sources who wished to remain anonymous contacted the author the same day.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015
    And common sense would also tell you that's it's odd that all of those sources who wished to remain anonymous contacted the author the same day.
    My view isn't just coming from the arcticle that is why i am not just focusing on the arcticle but also what Chris Roberts is doing.

    But you just keep focusing on the arcticle and not the other things.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    And common sense would also tell you that's it's odd that all of those sources who wished to remain anonymous contacted the author the same day.
    Indeed.  Both sides of this deserve the benefit of the doubt until more is known.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    And common sense would also tell you that's it's odd that all of those sources who wished to remain anonymous contacted the author the same day.
    Indeed.  Both sides of this deserve the benefit of the doubt until more is known.

    I'm cool with that. Seems fair to me. But it won't generate clicks:)
  • WarleyWarley Member UncommonPosts: 507
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    With all the posts claiming The Escapist lacks any kind of journalistic integrity, what happens if they are right? And I don't mean coincidentally, I mean, they actually did do their fact finding as they reported in the post above?

    So according to their published update, they did do their due diligence. So what makes them lack integrity? The popularity level of the subject? Seems Derek Smart may have been right all along? What does that say about those trying to silence him?

    The thing that I find so ridiculous here is the "What If" factor. "What If" all this was the truth all along? Were these accusations from the beginning really all that far fetched? The Star Citizen defense force came out of the woodwork to put down the accusers. But what if they are right? All those coming to the defense of this project haven't done anyone any favors. They've actually hurt their cause...and everyone else.

    Of course if the opposite is true and this was an elaborate plot drummed up by someone with a personal vendetta, Then that truth will also come to light and people like that will end up discrediting themselves.

    So, at the end of the day, why are some people afraid to let the truth be revealed? If I were monetarily invested here, you'd dam well better be sure I'd want to know what's what.

    I think it'll ultimately depend on the severity of which accusations are truthful and CIGs reaction. There is a lot of talk here about how CR isn't very nice. Honestly, that has very little bearing on my opinion of CIG as a company. Steve Jobs was a monster, yet became universally loved. That doesn't mean he wasn't an asshat, it just means he learned how to deal with people better. WRT some of the more serious accusations, specifically against Sandi Gardiner, I would have a hard time supporting the company if the more severe accusations were substantiated and no action was taken. 

    I think it's good that CIG reacted to the article with a threat of legal action. Whether it was posturing, I don't know. Now with The Escapists response, I guess we'll see. If it goes to court, though, I'd be very surprised if The Escapist could get the people to testify. If it doesn't go to court, well... I've said before that sometimes inaction is just as bad as admitting guilt. So it's still a wait-and-see situation. 
    The sources will not testify and Escapist will do everything they can to protect their sources. That is how it works, also I believe there are only  a handful of cases where journalists go to jail to protect sources.

    But if they do go to court that means CR will have to open the books, I do not see him willing to do that.  
    What you guys fail to realize is the accusations of racism and ageism (discrimination) potentially opens up CIG to lawsuits from anyone that fits certain profiles. Now, I believe that the judge will let a case go forward against Escapist since all CIG has to do is prove that Sandi hired two African Americans that report directly to her to discredit these accusations.

    Now, what you guys are also completely missing from this is CIG doesn't necessarily have to be the one filing the lawsuit. Sandi can do it personally with her own money.


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