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Significant Changes Coming to Several Systems in KotFE | Star Wars: The Old Republic | MMORPG.com

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    elocke said:
    Lots of great changes. I really like the one where they finally put a different quest indicator over npc heads delineating main story quests from world quests from side quests as well as all Heroic quests being on Terminals. Always thought the game needed that from day 1 to help players decide how to best level their character. Looking forward to playing again and getting that legacy title as well as playing the new content.

    The quest marker thing was something I emailed so of the devs back in early beta. It just seems natural.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    That seems quite the shake up on how the game is played. Not saying it's bad or good. Interesting though to say the least. The game has been running for a while and has shown be to be successful. This makes me think that they have plenty of future content (and customers) they want to bring in so these changes will probably serve to streamline that process for everyone on both sides going forward.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited October 2015
    So you have subbed since day one but have only completed those three raids?  

    Again if you can't solo using Yavin 4 weekly companion gear:

    A) Your own gear isn't good 

    B ) You need to L2P 

    Sorry if you don't agree with that its just how it is. 

    I stopped serious progress raiding because of life and profession related obligations.

  • heider89heider89 Member UncommonPosts: 159
    i like this changes only thing i wish they change is the level synq so you can togle it on and off. but i be happy with this any way :)
  • orionblackorionblack Member UncommonPosts: 493
    Roin said:
    NukeGamer said:
    Archlyte said:
    lmao they simplified the game yet again. Damn if they don't keep improving how bad their approach is to this game. I'm glad EA/Bioware does not control anything other than video games.
    Oh cute good job you got your Swtor bashing and EA basing all in three sentences.  I'd love to hear from these last two players who clearly don't play the game how these changes will simplify and make it easier. 
    Not like you would listen anyway. Only takes reading one of your post to tell that much. It doesn't matter what anyone says, doesn't matter what valid points they make. In your mind you are right they are wrong. Discussing anything with you would be futile.

    On topic: I agree with what has been said by some of the posters in this thread. Instead of teaching people to be better. You teach them to avoid or don't bother trying to learn. Didn't like it when WoW did it, don't like like the fact that SWTOR did it, and is taking it even a step further. To me it just says "Why teach people to be better, when we can help them to revel in mediocrity".

    The QoL changes like to hotbar skills make sense. Better late then never, but too much of the other stuff is just "meh".
    Have to agree with Roin here, just solidifies for me that this game is no longer worth playing. Oh and to NukeGamer..it's a public forum,people are allowed to express their joy or hate of a product.
  • NukeGamerNukeGamer Member, AMA Guest UncommonPosts: 309
    Roin said:
    NukeGamer said:
    Archlyte said:
    lmao they simplified the game yet again. Damn if they don't keep improving how bad their approach is to this game. I'm glad EA/Bioware does not control anything other than video games.
    Oh cute good job you got your Swtor bashing and EA basing all in three sentences.  I'd love to hear from these last two players who clearly don't play the game how these changes will simplify and make it easier. 
    Not like you would listen anyway. Only takes reading one of your post to tell that much. It doesn't matter what anyone says, doesn't matter what valid points they make. In your mind you are right they are wrong. Discussing anything with you would be futile.

    On topic: I agree with what has been said by some of the posters in this thread. Instead of teaching people to be better. You teach them to avoid or don't bother trying to learn. Didn't like it when WoW did it, don't like like the fact that SWTOR did it, and is taking it even a step further. To me it just says "Why teach people to be better, when we can help them to revel in mediocrity".

    The QoL changes like to hotbar skills make sense. Better late then never, but too much of the other stuff is just "meh".
    Have to agree with Roin here, just solidifies for me that this game is no longer worth playing. Oh and to NukeGamer..it's a public forum,people are allowed to express their joy or hate of a product.
    That's true but all I've asked for is actual examples to their claim...which they have avoided doing.  And I'll ask you what in these changes "solidifies " for you it's not worth playing? 
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,803
    Roin said:
    NukeGamer said:
    Archlyte said:
    lmao they simplified the game yet again. Damn if they don't keep improving how bad their approach is to this game. I'm glad EA/Bioware does not control anything other than video games.
    Oh cute good job you got your Swtor bashing and EA basing all in three sentences.  I'd love to hear from these last two players who clearly don't play the game how these changes will simplify and make it easier. 
    Not like you would listen anyway. Only takes reading one of your post to tell that much. It doesn't matter what anyone says, doesn't matter what valid points they make. In your mind you are right they are wrong. Discussing anything with you would be futile.

    On topic: I agree with what has been said by some of the posters in this thread. Instead of teaching people to be better. You teach them to avoid or don't bother trying to learn. Didn't like it when WoW did it, don't like like the fact that SWTOR did it, and is taking it even a step further. To me it just says "Why teach people to be better, when we can help them to revel in mediocrity".

    The QoL changes like to hotbar skills make sense. Better late then never, but too much of the other stuff is just "meh".
    It's all about "accessibility", which in turn leads to money. The latter in turn leads to a healthy game with plenty of updates.

    Besides, it doesn't personally affect me for the most part if some "mediocre/bad" player actually manages to get through the story content. The only place where this really matters is during raids, which I'll generally do with a guild or with people who I know can actually play the game.

    Not to mention those lesser skilled players deserve to have fun too, and the elitists still have their raids and actual content aimed at them.

    Will I miss gearing my companions? Absolutely. I loved being grossly OP throughout most of the game and soloing the group content. But it's hardly a deal breaker. And I've enjoyed the level scaling on different games, I'll enjoy it on this one too. It actually gives me a reason to start working through a backlog of skipped quests. xD

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Level Sync should be a toggle feature. It's a nice option to have, giving more flexibility to leveling, but should not be forced. Forced, it negates the purpose of gear and level progression in a game, and for games that are built with progression at the core of the game, that's pretty ridiculous.

    I don't think it would work as a toggle feature - many wouldn't use it which would (IMO) discourage those that would use it.


    Most people take the path of least resistance.  If the most efficient way to get something is to stand in one place and jump up and down for an hour - guess what most people will do?  It is human nature =)
  • Rockinw311Rockinw311 Member UncommonPosts: 125
    edited October 2015
    Scott23 said:
    Level Sync should be a toggle feature. It's a nice option to have, giving more flexibility to leveling, but should not be forced. Forced, it negates the purpose of gear and level progression in a game, and for games that are built with progression at the core of the game, that's pretty ridiculous.

    I don't think it would work as a toggle feature - many wouldn't use it which would (IMO) discourage those that would use it.


    Most people take the path of least resistance.  If the most efficient way to get something is to stand in one place and jump up and down for an hour - guess what most people will do?  It is human nature =)
    The toggle could work pretty easily, depending on how it was implemented. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat

    Instead of those with the toggle on/off all being on the same map, swtor has the opportunity to have those with level sync toggled on 1 map, and those w/o on another map

    Yes, that would segment the population into a couple of buckets. But forcing the level sync mass nerf, undoing the core progression mechanics of their game, is likely to cause part of the population to leave the game entirely. I've seen it happen before, and have left games myself because of it.

    This is a polar topic, like pve vs pvp segments (which also segments the population on servers). There will be those in favor of the level sync, and those just as strongly opposed to it
  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568
    zzzzzzzz
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Emeraq said:
    Not a fan of the gear not impacting companions stats.. They are just as powerful and as well defended naked as they are with clothing/armor is just silly and ridiculous. Likewise they are just as powerful with their weapon that was made by an amateur that may have defects or may malfunction, as they are with a weapon that was crafted by a master in that particular weapon trade... Yeah.. Not liking this.. I enjoyed gearing my companions up.
    Main problem with gear is that you must keep up with ALL of your alts if you want to swap them for fun ... at the end I have ended to decide for one or two and have stick with then only. Not really fun. And also love all can fulfill any role so I can keep preferred one or swap them for change. Anyway ... we will see soon how well they have implemented changes and I trust they will do it well.
  • masaki23masaki23 Member UncommonPosts: 42
    edited October 2015
    They are doing the same thing wow did. dumbing things down
  • NukeGamerNukeGamer Member, AMA Guest UncommonPosts: 309
    masaki23 said:
    They are doing the same thing wow did. dumbing things down
    Any chance you have any examples of this?  Nobody has been able to give a single example of how these charges "dumb down"
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited October 2015
    And here we go again.

    once you figure out that you are small minority, and that vast majority wants to play the game at their own leisure without petty annoyances and dont want to "go pro" youll be all that happier.

    Same as GW2 NPE.

    Level sync is one of best things that happened to the game since launch. Levels make NO sense whatsoever, or do you think that mandalorians on dromund kaas (lvl10-ish) are several magnitudes crappier than those on tatooine (lvl30-ish) that are again several magnitudes crappier than those on Ilum (lvl50-ish)....and all those in between.

    Also klor slugs on Korriban that you pwn at "lvl1", but suddenly those same klor are super powerful lvl 60 in Korriban incursions that challenge group of 4 dark council/wrath/.....most powerful force users in galaxy.

    Or if lvl50 Belsavis bunny decides to go on lvl10 dromund kass and lay wast to everything including dark council because hes "god mode" to those lvl10 wimps.

    Next best thing is if they stick to their roots (kotor and story) instead MMO crap that just waters down/bogs down whole game.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,803
    Malabooga said:

    Next best thing is if they stick to their roots (kotor and story) instead MMO crap that just waters down/bogs down whole game.
    I think they've actually come to realize that, hence all of the dramatic changes with KotFE.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Member UncommonPosts: 144
    edited October 2015
    We are getting closer, each and every day. https://media.giphy.com/media/9mWpvIW3nPR96/giphy.gif

    via GIPHY

  • NukeGamerNukeGamer Member, AMA Guest UncommonPosts: 309
    We are getting closer each and every day. https://media.giphy.com/media/9mWpvIW3nPR96/giphy.gif

    via GIPHY

    Yep that's about right for all those saying these changes are making the game easier.  So far nobody has gave an example.  
  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,379
    edited October 2015
    NukeGamer said:
    We are getting closer each and every day. https://media.giphy.com/media/9mWpvIW3nPR96/giphy.gif

    via GIPHY

    Yep that's about right for all those saying these changes are making the game easier.  So far nobody has gave an example.  
    Removal of Talent trees (something SWTOR also did). Good bye diversity. Because when everyone is special, no one is.

    WoW removed the need to level skills (Weapon, Defense, etc not hotbar skills)

    Tactical FP's, no need for strategy just roflstomp it, not saying they aren't fun, but they don't really require any planning or skill to do

    Removal of Skills (hotbar ones) my Mara/Sent use to have a need for more then 2 hotbars. I can barely fill 2 bars now with the skills left. Because apparently instead of teaching people how to use all the options available to them, it is just easier to limit the number.

    A Change coming to SWTOR:
    No need for Companion gear - That is definitely dumbing down, instead of removing the need to stat them properly, and gear them properly. They should have given them REAL talent trees.

    @Malabooga
    Lets talk about your level comment from a real world perspective. Lets say you have two boxers. Comparable skill. Boxer A barely beats out Boxer B in a match. Boxer A goes off to train, faces other opponents, sharpens his skills, wins titles. While Boxer B does not do anything of the sort to better himself. Boxer B decides he is fine the way he is. Boxer A and Boxer B have a rematch. Why should Boxer B be equal or slightly less equal to Boxer A?

    It's much the same way with mobs in level based games. They are static. They do nothing to improve. Their levels and skills are set in stone unless programmed to be different. Like during an event or special instance version. If SWTOR was from the start a non-level based game I would agree with you completely. But it was never designed that way. The idea that I can start on Korriban, rise to Darth, then later sit on the Dark Council. Only to return to Korriban to the same mobs I fought during my earliest training days, and have them even have a small chance to give me a run for my money is beyond silly.

    I don't knock people for being in favor of scaling. Me personally I just don't feel like it has a place in a game with traditional levels. It cheapens the feeling of progressing my character. For in-game events, sure doesn't bother me as much. But if I've been leveling my character, getting raid gear or just all around better gear, why would I want the game to make me feel like I wasted my time. Because after x amount of man hours I traveled back to a place I visited earlier on in my travels and find myself still getting my ass kicked by something that nearly kicked my ass 30 levels ago. Sorry that just doesn't sound like progress to me.

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  • Rockinw311Rockinw311 Member UncommonPosts: 125
    Roin said:
    NukeGamer said:
    We are getting closer each and every day. https://media.giphy.com/media/9mWpvIW3nPR96/giphy.gif

    via GIPHY

    Yep that's about right for all those saying these changes are making the game easier.  So far nobody has gave an example.  
    ...

    It's much the same way with mobs in level based games. They are static. They do nothing to improve. Their levels and skills are set in stone unless programmed to be different. Like during an event or special instance version. If SWTOR was from the start a non-level based game I would agree with you completely. But it was never designed that way. The idea that I can start on Korriban, rise to Darth, then later sit on the Dark Council. Only to return to Korriban to the same mobs I fought during my earliest training days, and have them even have a small chance to give me a run for my money is beyond silly.

    I don't knock people for being in favor of scaling. Me personally I just don't feel like it has a place in a game with traditional levels. It cheapens the feeling of progressing my character. For in-game events, sure doesn't bother me as much. But if I've been leveling my character, getting raid gear or just all around better gear, why would I want the game to make me feel like I wasted my time. Because after x amount of man hours I traveled back to a place I visited earlier on in my travels and find myself still getting my ass kicked by something that nearly kicked my ass 30 levels ago. Sorry that just doesn't sound like progress to me.
    <p>I agree - level sync in a game built around levels (character, item, whatever) doesn't make any sense as a normal option. Special events or something, fine, let's talk. If the game had been designed to be non-level based, that'd be a different story.</p>

    <p>If they were going to go with this mentality, as crazy as it sounds to me, then it should also flow in both directions. I should be able to fly out to Ilum or Ziost as a nublet and take on those mobs on equal footing (as a 'lvl 10' or whatever taking on a lvl 50 or 60) using the exact same arguments where I as a 'lvl 60' (or 65 or whatever) am being reduced to be 'sync'd' with a lvl 10 just because I went back to that area on a map.</p>

    <p>Again, if it was a non-level based game, that would be a very different setup, with characters/mobs not having levels, gear being pretty much entirely cosmetic, etc.. And that may even be a game I'd be interested in if swtor had been designed that way, but it wasn't. It is a progression based game built entirely around the concept of levels (character, items, skills, etc..) as part of their 'carrot' to keep us all on the treadmill and gate their content.</p>
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited October 2015
    "The idea that I can start on Korriban, rise to Darth, then later sit on the Dark Council. Only to return to Korriban to the same mobs I fought during my earliest training days, and have them even have a small chance to give me a run for my money is beyond silly."

    Thats EXACTLY what happens in Korriban incursions with lvl 60 klor slugs, not only THAT but you need 4 dark council members to beat them.

    WTF "game is static"? Well, they got educated and learn now. Levels are abstract. Its how it always should have been, when you get to lvl 65 you have crapton of skills more than on lvl 1, and no, lvl1 klor slug wont pwn you, you will STILL be much more powerful than when you were at lvl1, but not stupidly, irrationally so as it was until now.

    No, Mandalorians dont suck because they have little "lvl30" by their name just because it happens they are on Tatooine. You progressed the story, it very much sounds like progress to me, you get many more skills, yup, progress. You just dont get redonculous numberz.
    Post edited by Malabooga on
  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 314
    I love the changes, and am looking forward to giving them a spin sooner than later.

    All the angry Uncle Owens that don't even play are as classy as every I see.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • NuclearCoffeeNuclearCoffee Member UncommonPosts: 4
    eastercow said:
    wonder if they fixed the FPS drop in the battlegrounds.
    Probably not. The only game that has managed that is PS2, it still drops just not as bad. ESO, SW, Neverwinter, GW2 has not some never will.
  • NukeGamerNukeGamer Member, AMA Guest UncommonPosts: 309
    edited October 2015
    Roin said:
    NukeGamer said:
    We are getting closer each and every day. https://media.giphy.com/media/9mWpvIW3nPR96/giphy.gif

    via GIPHY

    Yep that's about right for all those saying these changes are making the game easier.  So far nobody has gave an example.  
    Removal of Talent trees (something SWTOR also did). Good bye diversity. Because when everyone is special, no one is.

    Really?  no diversity?  Thats funny because in the old trees there was an optimal build that almost everyone used.  In the new talent tree its pretty much the same but you also have options.  
    TIER 1 = total of 7 options you get to pick 3
    TIER 2= total of 7 options again you get to pick 2
    TIER 3= total of 7 options again you get to pick 2

    While the old Skill Trees appear on the surface to provide flexibility and choice, in practicality they give very little of either. Players of the old skill tree all tend to take the same skills in roughly the same order, with only minor variations on which utility choices they pick up by the end of their leveling system. 

    YOUR GRADE ON THIS ATTEMPT: F


    WoW removed the need to level skills (Weapon, Defense, etc not hotbar skills)

    Tactical FP's, no need for strategy just roflstomp it, not saying they aren't fun, but they don't really require any planning or skill to do

    They added Tact so people who didnt want to worry about needing the best gear in the game could  follow the story.  If you think a few random players who dont know how to play their class and dont have gear can jump into a Tact FP and succeed you are sadly mistaken.  

    They also never stopped making story mode and hard mode flashpoints.  The Hard Mode FP this go round were by far some of the hardest they have put in the game.  If you were around during launch of Revan you would know the forums were littered with post about how hard they are.  

    Adding a way for those who choose not to gain the best gear in order to complete hard modes and still allowing those who want to is not making it easier.  Its opening it up to more people so those people can progress to the harder content.  We have had a ton of 'casual' players in our guild that ran the Tact and said how fun they were and wanted to learn the SM/HM options.  Adding Tacts didnt simplify anything, it opened up something to a few players that they would never had experienced it otherwise and they now are going through the harder content.  

    YOUR GRADE ON THIS ATTEMPT: F

    Removal of Skills (hotbar ones) my Mara/Sent use to have a need for more then 2 hotbars. I can barely fill 2 bars now with the skills left. Because apparently instead of teaching people how to use all the options available to them, it is just easier to limit the number.

    Ok do you have a Mara or a Sent? (Probably neither)  I was going to walk you through the rotation so ill pick Carnage mara.  I will show two one for 2.10 and one for 3.0.


    Now you will notice in 2.10 he doesnt have more than 2 hotbars for actions as you claimed.  



    Now in 3.0 he almost has two full bars plus on the left side he has more actions bars.  Maybe you just need to L2P your class?  Because clearly they didnt limit the number of abilities.  
    YOUR GRADE ON THIS ATTEMPT:  F

    A Change coming to SWTOR:
    No need for Companion gear - That is definitely dumbing down, instead of removing the need to stat them properly, and gear them properly. They should have given them REAL talent trees.

    Currently in SWTOR you can get to 60 and do the YAVIN 4 weekly where get the YAVIN 4  gear for all your companions and never have to worry about their stats again.  If you cant clear all solo even champions with a Companion in Yavin 4 gear then A) you need to L2P your class or B  ) get better gear.    
    In the XPAC once you hit   YAVIN you never had to worry about their stats.  No change from Revan.  Sure you can complain that people were leveling their companions but from someone who actually played the game, you now how many times i heard can i need for my companion this XPAC ZERO.  And before that ZERO.  You never had to worry about 'properly gearing your companions" it came to you with out effort.  

    No they didnt dumb down the companions, they were never 'smart' to begin with.  

    YOUR GRADE ON THIS ATTEMPT:  D-

    Oh fun somebody wanted to try and explain this...

    Well I will give you a D for effort but overall a complete failure.  Nice try though.  

    As for the other scaling garbage, If you played SWTOR I can guarantee you never flew back to pretend you were some big bad sith.  That is the most desperate excuse.  IF you did go back and a level 30 gave you a run for your money you got more issues then thinking it doesnt fit.  

    You dont lose any of your new skills, you scale to the highest level (level for that planet) so instead of one shotting the poor level 30 it now will (SHOULD) take about three shots...again oh the horror.  

    In the Star Wars movies how many time did Luke have to fight through Storm Troopers?  He never just walked into a planet and said hey a few years ago I was here and I am stronger now I should just be able to look at you and you all fall down.  Nope he was always fighting his way through, even the strongest yedi had to...oh but you are special and shouldn't  have to got it...
  • NukeGamerNukeGamer Member, AMA Guest UncommonPosts: 309

    eastercow said:
    wonder if they fixed the FPS drop in the battlegrounds.
    Probably not. The only game that has managed that is PS2, it still drops just not as bad. ESO, SW, Neverwinter, GW2 has not some never will.
    Not true...

    http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/9222015/game-update-3.3.2-patch-notes

    Once this dropped the forums (if you know SWOTR forums you will understand the significance) were completely positive about the impact this had on the game.  
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,136
    eastercow said:
    wonder if they fixed the FPS drop in the battlegrounds.

    Remember the devs said it wasn't their game it was our computers....
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