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Poll: How much do you have vested in the many up and coming kickstarter/grass roots/homebrew MMORPG.

1246

Comments

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
    $0.00 USD, I don't blindly invest in a dream or idea. Show me something worth investing in, and then I'll consider it.
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    edited September 2015
    I've backed a couple of single player games through KS like Divinity 2, Book of Unwritten Tales 2 and Kingdom Come.  In total I must have spent just under £100 over the last couple of years.  Divinity 2 was a steal due to getting the original and the new game for around £30.  The games I've backed I had faith the devs will/did deliver.

    MMORPG's are a different matter.  So far I've only spent money on a finished product.  Up to this point in time IMO the majority of the low budget offerings have been trash.  I did back Pantheon at the beginning of their KS but pull out due to the crap KS.

    I've got no faith in the devs.  They can talk the talk and offer loads of features on paper, but we have seen with DF and MO and Pathfinder that they cannot deliver.

    I may be cautious when it comes parting with my money but I do hope that the latest batch of games like Pantheon, SC, Crowfall and CU will deliver and become successful.

    Edit: Just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Project Gorgon.  It's amazing what they have done with their limited resources and for not chasing the money with early access and opening the game for free for everyone.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,725
    edited September 2015
    Dullahan said:
    MrSnuffles said:

    The only 2 i am worried about are Shroud of the Avatar which looks horribly boring and the Unity engine is too restrictive for a real MMORPG and Star Citizen which i hope i can play before i don't really care any more. I doubt it will be finished and playable before 2020.

    The others are way behind in schedule, which is normal for Kickstarter. Most are 3 years behind.
    In what way are they finding Unity restrictive? Seems many other developers are creating MMOs in it without much trouble. Are you sure you aren't confusing Portalarium's limitations for Unity's?

    It's C# for crying out loud. You can not make a real MMORPG in C#. You can make lobby, small map multiplayer games but not MMORPG's. 

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity. It just can not deliver the size and performance. All Unity games will ALWAYS have extremely small map size due to memory restrictions and the inability to optimize code in C#.

    Please share all these other developers that make MMO's in it.
    The performance difference between programming in C# rather than C or even assembly will tend to be overwhelmed by the performance difference of a more efficient programmer versus a less efficient one.  That tends to still be true if you substitute in other compiled languages, though it can go out the window if you compare the performance of a compiled language versus an interpreted one.

    Once in a class, I coded something in Java and the person next to me wrote it in C, and my code outperformed his by about a factor of 1000.  That's not the difference between Java and C; it's the difference between an O(n ln(n)) algorithm and an O(n^2) algorithm.

    Or to put it another way, you can usually get a lot more performance in C# or Java today than you could in even the lowest level languages ten years ago, simply because hardware has advanced that much.  Would you say that there were no real games ten years ago?  If you want to talk about fancy graphics, then so long as you've got full access to either DirectX or OpenGL, you've got everything you need for GPU performance and the video card doesn't care what language your host code is in.
  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827
    Quizzical said:
     


    Or to put it another way, you can usually get a lot more performance in C# or Java today than you could in even the lowest level languages ten years ago, simply because hardware has advanced that much.  .
    And this Dumb &^&#$ right there is why crappy @$$ KSers are all optimized for ^&^*@#*.  They rely on Hware(usually a limited band) to compensate for &*^*# efficiency in code.

    image
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    BMBender said:
    Quizzical said:
     


    Or to put it another way, you can usually get a lot more performance in C# or Java today than you could in even the lowest level languages ten years ago, simply because hardware has advanced that much.  .
    And this Dumb &^&#$ right there is why crappy @$$ KSers are all optimized for ^&^*@#*.  They rely on Hware(usually a limited band) to compensate for &*^*# efficiency in code.

    If CPU code execution is the bottleneck for someone's game, then I would argue they wouldn't have been able to make a good game anyway, in any language or engine.

    That said, I agree Unity isn't a great choice if you are purely aiming for performance. 
    Unity is a jack of all trades master of none engine that tries to be easy to use while supporting any possible game type on a variety of very different systems. That has to take a toll, no way around it.
    It's performance will ofcourse pale in comparison to a custom tailored (for a specific game) well optimized (for one specific type of hardware) engine that also doesn't need to bend over backwards to be easily accessible for untrained people.

    But most indie projects will not have the luxury of creating an own specialized engine, nor will they be able to create all assets and subsystems, thus performance will not be the main focus for them, and it's understandable they chose Unity and it's Asset store. (the result will ofcourse be appropiate)

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Quizzical said:
    Dullahan said:
    MrSnuffles said:

    The only 2 i am worried about are Shroud of the Avatar which looks horribly boring and the Unity engine is too restrictive for a real MMORPG and Star Citizen which i hope i can play before i don't really care any more. I doubt it will be finished and playable before 2020.

    The others are way behind in schedule, which is normal for Kickstarter. Most are 3 years behind.
    In what way are they finding Unity restrictive? Seems many other developers are creating MMOs in it without much trouble. Are you sure you aren't confusing Portalarium's limitations for Unity's?

    It's C# for crying out loud. You can not make a real MMORPG in C#. You can make lobby, small map multiplayer games but not MMORPG's. 

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity. It just can not deliver the size and performance. All Unity games will ALWAYS have extremely small map size due to memory restrictions and the inability to optimize code in C#.

    Please share all these other developers that make MMO's in it.
    The performance difference between programming in C# rather than C or even assembly will tend to be overwhelmed by the performance difference of a more efficient programmer versus a less efficient one.  That tends to still be true if you substitute in other compiled languages, though it can go out the window if you compare the performance of a compiled language versus an interpreted one.

    Once in a class, I coded something in Java and the person next to me wrote it in C, and my code outperformed his by about a factor of 1000.  That's not the difference between Java and C; it's the difference between an O(n ln(n)) algorithm and an O(n^2) algorithm.

    Or to put it another way, you can usually get a lot more performance in C# or Java today than you could in even the lowest level languages ten years ago, simply because hardware has advanced that much.  Would you say that there were no real games ten years ago?  If you want to talk about fancy graphics, then so long as you've got full access to either DirectX or OpenGL, you've got everything you need for GPU performance and the video card doesn't care what language your host code is in.
    While you are right that a shitty programmer can do a lot of harm to a Program there are also limitations in C# that can not be overcome by programming. Memory Management is one such limitation where no matter how good your programmer is, C# is not able to handle large data structures which are required for large scenes (Maps in a game are just large data structures). That is why all Unity games have very tiny maps and a limit on assets you can have per map before performance suddenly drops so hard it becomes unplayable.

    Your comment about graphics shows how little you know about game development and programming. One of the areas that has the biggest impact on your main game loop is how and when you push information to the GPU. This is something you have no control over in C# or Unity. The optimization of the render loop is the most essential piece in your engine. You want to be able to keep the GPU busy at all times and have data structures ready to be rendered whenever the GPU has free resources.

    For your 60 FPS game your main game loop has to be done in 17ms. That is not a lot of time to do all the work you have to do for a AAA game. This includes EVERYTHING.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,964
    edited September 2015
    Dullahan said:
    MrSnuffles said:

    The only 2 i am worried about are Shroud of the Avatar which looks horribly boring and the Unity engine is too restrictive for a real MMORPG and Star Citizen which i hope i can play before i don't really care any more. I doubt it will be finished and playable before 2020.

    The others are way behind in schedule, which is normal for Kickstarter. Most are 3 years behind.
    In what way are they finding Unity restrictive? Seems many other developers are creating MMOs in it without much trouble. Are you sure you aren't confusing Portalarium's limitations for Unity's?

    It's C# for crying out loud. You can not make a real MMORPG in C#. You can make lobby, small map multiplayer games but not MMORPG's. 

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity. It just can not deliver the size and performance. All Unity games will ALWAYS have extremely small map size due to memory restrictions and the inability to optimize code in C#.

    Please share all these other developers that make MMO's in it.
    First of all, you obviously have not a clue about what you're talking about. Do you really think Unity is 100% C# ? The core of the engine is C++. C# (and several other scripting languages in the case of unity) are what is used for... yeah, scripting. You have the same in major games with proprietary engines, among which World of Warcraft which uses LUA. All game engines nowadays include one or more scripting engines that are used to change stuff on the fly without having to recompile the whole engine. And more amusing, even the quake engine (20+ years old...) was already including one...

    Second, Shroud of the Avatar NEVER claimed to be a MMORPG. So maybe you got your expectations wrong because you failed to inform yourself about what the game really was. The way the game is designed is a modern version of how old Ultima RPGs from Richard Garriott were made, it was intended to be that way.

    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Amana on
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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,725
    Quizzical said:
    The performance difference between programming in C# rather than C or even assembly will tend to be overwhelmed by the performance difference of a more efficient programmer versus a less efficient one.  That tends to still be true if you substitute in other compiled languages, though it can go out the window if you compare the performance of a compiled language versus an interpreted one.

    Once in a class, I coded something in Java and the person next to me wrote it in C, and my code outperformed his by about a factor of 1000.  That's not the difference between Java and C; it's the difference between an O(n ln(n)) algorithm and an O(n^2) algorithm.

    Or to put it another way, you can usually get a lot more performance in C# or Java today than you could in even the lowest level languages ten years ago, simply because hardware has advanced that much.  Would you say that there were no real games ten years ago?  If you want to talk about fancy graphics, then so long as you've got full access to either DirectX or OpenGL, you've got everything you need for GPU performance and the video card doesn't care what language your host code is in.
    While you are right that a shitty programmer can do a lot of harm to a Program there are also limitations in C# that can not be overcome by programming. Memory Management is one such limitation where no matter how good your programmer is, C# is not able to handle large data structures which are required for large scenes (Maps in a game are just large data structures). That is why all Unity games have very tiny maps and a limit on assets you can have per map before performance suddenly drops so hard it becomes unplayable.

    Your comment about graphics shows how little you know about game development and programming. One of the areas that has the biggest impact on your main game loop is how and when you push information to the GPU. This is something you have no control over in C# or Unity. The optimization of the render loop is the most essential piece in your engine. You want to be able to keep the GPU busy at all times and have data structures ready to be rendered whenever the GPU has free resources.

    For your 60 FPS game your main game loop has to be done in 17ms. That is not a lot of time to do all the work you have to do for a AAA game. This includes EVERYTHING.
    I'll concede that I don't know C# and have not used Unity.  But I have created my own graphics engine in Java, and if Java has everything you need, I'd be very surprised if C# doesn't.

    Setting up data to pass it along to the video card is pretty trivial to scale to as many threads as you like.  If you had a reasonable 100 core CPU ("reasonable" meaning adequate caches, memory bandwidth, etc. to make actually using all 100 cores viable) and had enough work in setting up the data each frame to keep 100 cores busy, making that part of the game engine scale well to 100 cores is easy to do.

    It's only the rendering thread that has to actually have the graphics API calls that has to be single-threaded.  (Well, almost; DirectX 11 offers multi-threaded rendering, but it doesn't work very well, which is why no other graphics APIs have adopted that approach.)  Even there, it's mostly, hand something to the video drivers, hand something else to the video drivers, hand something else to the video drivers, and so forth.  Setting up the data is trivial to do in other threads.  You likely have a little bit of branching to make sure you skip redundant API calls, but the single-threaded bottleneck there is what the video drivers do after they get your data--and that has nothing to do with your host code language.

    If you're not using the cutting edge APIs, the biggest single-threaded rendering bottleneck is switching textures.  Here, you just pass an ID number to the video drivers and let it do its thing.  This is a much bigger bottleneck than passing uniforms, in spite of the latter needing to be done far more times and actually having arbitrary data to copy over rather than just an ID number.  And yes, I've timed it to know this.

    Now, I guess you could turn copying textures or vertex data into a big bottleneck if you're not buffering it on the GPU.  But that's a problem of "programmer is an idiot"--and I don't expect it to be a common problem unless you're talking about very old games.  If you're running out of video memory, shuffling buffers in and out is handled automatically by video drivers, and doesn't care which host code language or even which game engine you're using.  How much space buffers take in video memory likewise doesn't care which host code language you're using.

    I mentioned above, "if you're not using the cutting edge APIs".  You don't really need to if you're not having trouble with a single-threaded rendering bottleneck of the video drivers handling all your API calls.  But if that is the big bottleneck, switching to C++ or C or Fortran or assembly or whatever won't save you.  Batching your draw calls, on the other hand, will.  That's available in DirectX 12, OpenGL 4.x (via extensions), Mantle, and soon Vulkan.

    The idea is that instead of setting uniforms, possibly switching textures, and occasionally switching programs or samplers for every single draw call, you batch them up into a bunch of draw calls that use the same program and sampler and the same texture resolution--but not necessarily the same texture.  You can then have a few API calls to pass the video drivers all of the uniforms for perhaps dozens draw calls in only a few API calls rather than hundreds, and similarly get large savings on switching textures and actually passing along the draw calls.  One Nvidia slide deck I saw claimed a 90% reduction in overhead; I expect 90% to be an unrealistic corner case, but expect a 60% or 70% savings in overhead to be very doable in real games.

    The reason switching textures is so expensive is that you don't just move a pointer to a different texture.  You have to change a whole bunch of things to account for the data format, horizontal and vertical resolutions of the texture, and also the resolution of each mipmap separately.  If all of those things that could change when you switch textures are guaranteed to be the same except for the data in the texture, then you really do just move a pointer and that's it.

    As for the size of a map and the number of assets in it, that's got nothing to do with a CPU bottleneck anywhere.  If you want big, seamless maps, that's all about covering up loading times from a hard drive.  "Load this file into memory" as a single, big operation is something straightforward enough that I'd expect even scripting languages to do a passable job of making it perform decently.

    The real problem is how large of assets you have to load and how often.  That has nothing to do with the host code language.  Rather, it's all about programmer cleverness to get what you want with as little hard drive activity as possible.  Alas, the lack of good programming skills is what leads more than a few indie games to try to find an engine that can handle everything for them.
  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593
    I buyed fews alphas on steam (LiF , Rust , 7day) but never pledged on kickstart , indiegogo
    Market so sick dont want waste my money in projects never become release 

    "Jump over alphas" its actual stage from mmo/game market 
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,973
    Is there a good blog or article series that covers MMO kickstarters each month or so?  I keep not hearing about them until the kickstarters are over :/  It'd be even better if I could hear about this kind of project in the design phase where I could maybe get on the staff.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited September 2015
    Dullahan said:
    MrSnuffles said:

    The only 2 i am worried about are Shroud of the Avatar which looks horribly boring and the Unity engine is too restrictive for a real MMORPG and Star Citizen which i hope i can play before i don't really care any more. I doubt it will be finished and playable before 2020.

    The others are way behind in schedule, which is normal for Kickstarter. Most are 3 years behind.
    In what way are they finding Unity restrictive? Seems many other developers are creating MMOs in it without much trouble. Are you sure you aren't confusing Portalarium's limitations for Unity's?

    It's C# for crying out loud. You can not make a real MMORPG in C#. You can make lobby, small map multiplayer games but not MMORPG's. 

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity. It just can not deliver the size and performance. All Unity games will ALWAYS have extremely small map size due to memory restrictions and the inability to optimize code in C#.

    Please share all these other developers that make MMO's in it.
    First of all, you obviously have not a clue about what you're talking about. Do you really think Unity is 100% C# ? The core of the engine is C++. C# (and several other scripting languages in the case of unity) are what is used for... yeah, scripting. You have the same in major games with proprietary engines, among which World of Warcraft which uses LUA. All game engines nowadays include one or more scripting engines that are used to change stuff on the fly without having to recompile the whole engine. And more amusing, even the quake engine (20+ years old...) was already including one...

    Second, Shroud of the Avatar NEVER claimed to be a MMORPG. So maybe you got your expectations wrong because you failed to inform yourself about what the game really was. The way the game is designed is a modern version of how old Ultima RPGs from Richard Garriott were made, it was intended to be that way.

    Not liking a game is fine, but try to get informed before posting nonsense just to bash it.

    EDIT: oh, I just read your last post... it's not because you bought "graphic coding for dummies" that you are suddenly a game developer, or even just a graphic engine developer. You mock the ability of Quizzical to understand game development, but from the content of your own posts, you obviously know nothing about it at all except mindlessly repeating what someone else wrote intelligently on some web page or book.
    First of all, the Unity runtime is written in C++. It is separate from your game logic. There is really no point in discussing this any further since it is common knowledge. The UI, Terrain Engine and almost all other components are written in C#/Mono including most crucial your complete game logic. Feel free to talk to a Unity Developer to confirm this or get the source license and see for yourself.

    Here is the performance of Sudoku a 2D game written in C/C++/C#/Mono (lower is better). Remember that Game logic in Unity is written in C#/Mono not in C++. [source]



    Yes all modern games use scripting and even Quake did... in C++! It was called Kismet. Look it up.




    The scripting Engines in modern game engines are based on C++ components that you connect with a visual scripting "language" based on the original Kismet and are compiled before use with C++ for maximum performance. You can write your own C++ Scripting components in all modern engines. (WoW has a Lua API for UI mods, that is something completely different)

    Second, Ultima was a big open world. SoA is a zone based Multiplayer RPG hodgepodge with maps the size of my backyard.

    Thirdly, i advise you to stop with the ad hominem attacks if you have nothing to say regarding the topic or you have no arguments then please refrain from replying to me.

    PS: Still waiting on those examples of AAA games or real open world MMMOPRG's released on Unity. Thanks.
    Post edited by MrSnuffles on
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • ZharreZharre Member UncommonPosts: 80
    I've backed several things through Kickstarter, but MMO-wise, the list is short:
    Repopulation
    Camelot Unchained
    Star Citizen

    I absolutely love Kickstarter. For many years prior to KS becoming so popular, I felt as though shouting into the wind my desires was just about as effective as anything else for letting my gaming desires be known. Now I can put my money to use instead, which is far more effective than fruitlessly shouting into space. I can put money down in support of something I want, (and probably something I haven't seen much of for years) instead of something some dudes in suits decided was the Hot Thing (Guaranteed Generic Enough To Be Loved By The Masses!).

    So I'm still excited for Kickstarter. Still supporting things I find interesting and worthy of support. AND greatly enjoying the (mostly only single player) games I've backed that have been released so far. 


  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 1,973
    Is there a good blog or article series that covers MMO kickstarters each month or so?  I keep not hearing about them until the kickstarters are over :/  It'd be even better if I could hear about this kind of project in the design phase where I could maybe get on the staff.
    Massively has their weekly "make my mmo" roundup that talks about what's going on with kickstarters and other crowdfunded games.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity.

    Battlestar Galactica Online
    Pillars of Eternity
    Sword Coast Legends
    Hearthstone

    I'm sure you'll have an excuse for each one, but those are just a few that come to mind right now. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Loktofeit said:

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity.

    Battlestar Galactica Online
    Sword Coast Legends
    Hearthstone

    I'm sure you'll have an excuse for each one, but those are just a few that come to mind right now. 
    No idea if they were made with Unity or not.  But are any of these truly AAA games?

    The first is a browser base game that does not look like a MMORPG to me but I know almost nothing about it.
    The second is developed by Paradox Interactive and as much as I like there products they are not a AAA developer IMHO, and although it seems to be an RPG it does not seem to be multiplayer.
    The third is a yet to be releases ARPG from a publisher that is unknown to me again I doubt it can be said to be a AAA game.

    The final game, Hearthstone is from a AAA publisher but it is an online collectible card game.  I really do not think this counts either.

    I think by posting this you have admitted you cannot show MrSnuffles an example to justify your claim.
  • NyteWytchNyteWytch Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Hmmm, I'm in pretty deep to KS for games and a few of them were MMOs.

    Novus AEterno (they call it a MMO)
    Shroud of the Avatar
    Star Citizen
    The Repopulation
    Pathfinder Online

    I only regret PFO but I ended up selling my account for more than I paid for it so can't really complain.  I would've put in for more but found the kickstarters after the campaigns had ended.  I have no problems with KickStarter in the future though I might be a bit more selective now (but that's mostly from just not having time to play all the games I have).
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    edited September 2015
    Loktofeit said:
    Loktofeit said:

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity.

    Battlestar Galactica Online
    Sword Coast Legends
    Hearthstone

    I'm sure you'll have an excuse for each one, but those are just a few that come to mind right now. 
    No idea if they were made with Unity or not.  But are any of these truly AAA games?

    The first is a browser base game that does not look like a MMORPG to me but I know almost nothing about it.
    The second is developed by Paradox Interactive and as much as I like there products they are not a AAA developer IMHO, and although it seems to be an RPG it does not seem to be multiplayer.
    The third is a yet to be releases ARPG from a publisher that is unknown to me again I doubt it can be said to be a AAA game.

    The final game, Hearthstone is from a AAA publisher but it is an online collectible card game.  I really do not think this counts either.

    I think by posting this you have admitted you cannot show MrSnuffles an example to justify your claim.

    Exactly the kind of nonsense I expected. By what measure is Hearthstone NOT a AAA game? Wait... nevermind. You've already typed out enough crazy for one thread. No need to try to one up yourself. 

    "The third is a yet to be releases ARPG from a publisher that is unknown to me"   Wizards of the Coast    

    That was my favorite part, bro. 

    [mod edit]

    I will grant you Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast is a AAA publisher. But the game is yet to be released and an ARPG.  We shall have to wait and see how it is regarded a couple of months after release.

    As I said: "Hearthstone is from a AAA publisher but it is an online collectible card game" I still do not think that an online collectible card game counts.

    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Amana on
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,378
    Loktofeit said:
    Loktofeit said:
    Loktofeit said:

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity.

    Battlestar Galactica Online
    Sword Coast Legends
    Hearthstone

    I'm sure you'll have an excuse for each one, but those are just a few that come to mind right now. 
    No idea if they were made with Unity or not.  But are any of these truly AAA games?

    The first is a browser base game that does not look like a MMORPG to me but I know almost nothing about it.
    The second is developed by Paradox Interactive and as much as I like there products they are not a AAA developer IMHO, and although it seems to be an RPG it does not seem to be multiplayer.
    The third is a yet to be releases ARPG from a publisher that is unknown to me again I doubt it can be said to be a AAA game.

    The final game, Hearthstone is from a AAA publisher but it is an online collectible card game.  I really do not think this counts either.

    I think by posting this you have admitted you cannot show MrSnuffles an example to justify your claim.

    Exactly the kind of nonsense I expected. By what measure is Hearthstone NOT a AAA game? Wait... nevermind. You've already typed out enough crazy for one thread. No need to try to one up yourself. 

    "The third is a yet to be releases ARPG from a publisher that is unknown to me"   Wizards of the Coast    

    That was my favorite part, bro. 

    Firstly I am not your brother so do not call me "bro" I find it very offensive.

    I will grant you Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast is a AAA publisher. But the game is yet to be released and an ARPG.  We shall have to wait and see how it is regarded a couple of months after release.

    As I said: "Hearthstone is from a AAA publisher but it is an online collectible card game" I still do not think that an online collectible card game counts.

    But live in your own world, you seem to enjoy it there.
    Again, more illogical nonsense.  

    Can you answer the question?  If all you have is wiseass comments, fine, but it would be interesting to know by what measure you feel Hearthstone is not a AAA game.

    Is your answer really that you have some weird personal issue with CCGs, therefore it doesn't count? If so, do you not see the humor in telling someone else they're living in their own alternate reality? :D 


    I am not a Hearthstone fan - imo MTG is a far more rewarding game.

    But without a shadow of a doubt Hearthstone is a AAA CCG through and through.

    Blizzard nailed it from all aspects - this is imo undeniable and I really dislike the gameplay, but the level of development and polish is as clear as day. 

    AAA title without a doubt 
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited September 2015

    Loktofeit said:

    Show me one, just a single real MMORPG or AAA game made with Unity.

    Battlestar Galactica Online
    Pillars of Eternity
    Sword Coast Legends
    Hearthstone

    I'm sure you'll have an excuse for each one, but those are just a few that come to mind right now. 

    You could have also listed Blackguards 1/2, Warhammer 40k, Assassins Creed Identity and many more small map, low performance and/or non Multiplayer games. Just as i repeatedly said that this is what Unity is good for. Small map, lobby style, strategy or card/puzzle games. None of these are AAA MMORPG's.

    Listing a card game in a discussion about Engine Performance just shows you are only fishing for flames and i will not do you that favor.

    You know very well that what you listed does not qualify. Let's leave it at that.

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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,378
    I've backed too many to list.

    Anything that has major industry veterans behind it i usually back without even thinking about it. 

    Smaller indie unknown projects from unknown devs I am a lot more cautious about.

    But anything from the likes of Mark Jacobs, Brian Fargo etc.... I'll back blindly. I mean it could be watch paint dry online and I'll give them money.



  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    MrSnuffles said:  None of these are AAA MMORPG's.

    I never said they were, and that wasn't your question. Thanks for playing. o7

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,556
    Voted Nothing.
     There are probably a number of kickstarter games that will be finished, but its ultimately a gamble if any of them do.
     I refuse to gamble, if the games make it to a finished product, and i like it enough, then i'll buy in at that point, i don't have so much money i can afford to waste it on pipedreams.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Phry said:
    Voted Nothing.
     There are probably a number of kickstarter games that will be finished, but its ultimately a gamble if any of them do.
     I refuse to gamble, if the games make it to a finished product, and i like it enough, then i'll buy in at that point, i don't have so much money i can afford to waste it on pipedreams.
    Makes sense, especially at the rate that these things are popping up. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,754
    Distopia said:
    Weird usually there's an indicator at the top of a post saying which way you voted.. Bugged or removed?
    When yo make the poll, you have a public or private option.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Phry said:
    Voted Nothing.
     There are probably a number of kickstarter games that will be finished, but its ultimately a gamble if any of them do.
     I refuse to gamble, if the games make it to a finished product, and i like it enough, then i'll buy in at that point, i don't have so much money i can afford to waste it on pipedreams.

    So put your money into blue chip Kickstarters. Invest in the larger projects that seem to have realistic budgets. Shoot, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is about as much of a lock as they come. Shadowrun is another which is, basically, guaranteed to be delivered, and be quality. With Divinity, you can pick up their last-minute deal at $27, which is $13 cheaper than Divinity: Original Sin (going for $40 on steam). 

    I can understand why people wouldn't put their money into something like Star Citizen, or The Repopulation, or something new and high-risk. However, to say you can't afford to waste your money on pipe dreams makes it sound like you're spending $30 on a lottery ticket. It's nowhere CLOSE to that. Also, there are titles which are simply locks to be delivered. Instead, people continue to believe the hype and will end up throwing away 2 times the money to play it when it's released. 

    I've published on here before that about Kickstarter delivery numbers and, at this point, and not fully updated, of 422 projects, 83% have shipped in some way, either early release or full release. That includes all successfully-funded projects up until the end of 2013. I haven't added any 2014 projects as of yet. Even still, the negative stigma is completely unwarranted at this point. Especially considering the fact that you end up saving 50% on the retail price (on average). So even if they were only shipping at a rate of 50%, you'd still be at least even. As it stands, though, waiting for the retail release actually costs you, approaching, double the money. 

    Crazkanuk

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