I find it funny that the two sides fighting here seems to think that only two outcomes are possible for this game: Total succes or total failure.
I find it far more likely that it will not hit either of these but end up somewhere in the range between those two extremes.
Having read the official forums for quite some time now, the opinion "end up somewhere in the range" is the prevalent one. Most people are realistic enough to understand that some things might not quite work out as planned ... or have to be added later when the computing power catches up with the technical demand of certain features. So far people are optimistic that most things will make it into the Gold (feature complete Final Beta/Launch) version on Day 1 of the PU.
I don't know all the facts because CIG and RSI refuse to acknowledge them with proof, only words. One thing I've learned in life is when someone is asked a question and they can only respond with words as proof, not to believe them. Humankind has always said, trust makes a relationship work. Well, trust is earned with proof, not with words.
I like how they are keeping everything at the top in the family. That point alone raises a lot more questions than answers. Also when I went to bed last night i said to my self, there will be a comment about how everything is fine and nothing to see here.
I hate it when am right. A journalist should have wanted more answers than what he was spoon fed in that article. We have gone past just spoon fed damage control, we need the books opened to see exactly what is going on. Personally if it was me doing a story about SC and possible corruption, I would start looking at Roberts (not his brother) and getting on the record answers from him and ask if he has a problem opening the books to where the money has gone from his gamer backers.
What I find funny with my first paragraph is this is like an episode from NCIS or Law and Order.
Have a nice gaming day!
What Right do you have to say how a company is run, and demand them to open the books?
And don't give me that crap about being a concerned customer. As a Customer you have the right to not be a Customer anymore, and demand a refund. Which I'm pretty sure they refunded and this point. If they haven't show the proof and take it to the BBB.
As a Backer, you might want to read the rights you have at that point. As the rights are very specific as to what you can do, and it amounts to not much. It clearly states you are not an investor, but an early Customer with guarantees of a finished product at the end. If there is even a finished product. If the campaign fails and the goods are not deliverable then Kickstarter will get involved. If you backed the game through their site you are just another Customer please see above.
If you are an Investor (and I think you are not, as it is not publicly traded company), you can take it to your Shareholder meetings and start a vote of non confidence.
Until then keep quiet and go fix your own game before we start in on that one.
P.S. Was a rant at the situation not that I think you are DS.
ROFL, that hit a nerve, did it go very deep? I must have really said something that has some people scared. I know if I was Roberts right now I would be scared, because you do not need to be a rocket scientist to see something is just not right with him and this game.
@JeroKane yes i do know their are creditable family's that run companies. But this one is not one of them. Way to many things smell fishy with this one.
Um what? You didn't even hit the broadside of the barn. If you would take notice I didn't post an opinion on either side of the fence. I just asked a question as to who are you to make demands on a Company you have no interest in. But looking into the posts on here it seems you are just a troll looking to come out from under the bridge.
I like how they are keeping everything at the top in the family. That point alone raises a lot more questions than answers. Also when I went to bed last night i said to my self, there will be a comment about how everything is fine and nothing to see here.
I hate it when am right. A journalist should have wanted more answers than what he was spoon fed in that article. We have gone past just spoon fed damage control, we need the books opened to see exactly what is going on. Personally if it was me doing a story about SC and possible corruption, I would start looking at Roberts (not his brother) and getting on the record answers from him and ask if he has a problem opening the books to where the money has gone from his gamer backers.
What I find funny with my first paragraph is this is like an episode from NCIS or Law and Order.
Have a nice gaming day!
What Right do you have to say how a company is run, and demand them to open the books?
And don't give me that crap about being a concerned customer. As a Customer you have the right to not be a Customer anymore, and demand a refund. Which I'm pretty sure they refunded and this point. If they haven't show the proof and take it to the BBB.
As a Backer, you might want to read the rights you have at that point. As the rights are very specific as to what you can do, and it amounts to not much. It clearly states you are not an investor, but an early Customer with guarantees of a finished product at the end. If there is even a finished product. If the campaign fails and the goods are not deliverable then Kickstarter will get involved. If you backed the game through their site you are just another Customer please see above.
If you are an Investor (and I think you are not, as it is not publicly traded company), you can take it to your Shareholder meetings and start a vote of non confidence.
Until then keep quiet and go fix your own game before we start in on that one.
P.S. Was a rant at the situation not that I think you are DS.
ROFL, that hit a nerve, did it go very deep? I must have really said something that has some people scared. I know if I was Roberts right now I would be scared, because you do not need to be a rocket scientist to see something is just not right with him and this game.
@JeroKane yes i do know their are creditable family's that run companies. But this one is not one of them. Way to many things smell fishy with this one.
Um what? You didn't even hit the broadside of the barn. If you would take notice I didn't post an opinion on either side of the fence. I just asked a question as to who are you to make demands on a Company you have no interest in. But looking into the posts on here it seems you are just a troll looking to come out from under the bridge.
Yeah am just a troll that likes looking at facts, and the facts here is something just does not smell right with SC and Roberts.
It's very beautiful term for a layoff, but when a thing like this happens people with families are still being told that as they are unable to move to another continent they're now being laid off.
While I agree it sucks. But one fact most people just overlook or choose to ignore is that the gaming industry is a high turnover industry. Jobs are constantly coming and going as games start and end development. If you want a stable job that is not going to go anywhere then you do not choose the gaming industry regardless how much passon you have in it.
The only exception is if you are at the top of the company and / or in a position where your heading the multiple projects being worked on. Programmers, designers, artest, ect. They are all positions that come and go and games start and end production. They are in essence throwaway positions (sucks to say it that way but its the god honest truth). A company can not be expected to hang onto people that it no longer needs. If you start development on a game / project you may need 20 programmers. But by the time that project is nearing finish you may only need 5. The company can not just eat 15 other programmers just setting around doing in essence nothing. And there is not always another project in the pipeline. Sometimes things are just a one off and your just needed to do X job until its finished.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
This is totally untrue. everything you stated-
That aside I find it funny that the whole point of 'crowdfunding' (and SC) was to get away from the evil., lying, greedy corporations and now we have SC using corporate double-speak and acting FAR MORE shady than most corporations (and with no oversight ) as they near 100 million in funding from fans.
Examine the statement- "Streamlining" by letting people go but "No,. we're not laying anyone off" and "everythings great- trust us"
Streamlining by getting rid of staff IS laying people off. Its twisting words and playing with semantics. Its why we dont trust those greedy corporations lolz.
Anyhow, knew this statement was coming.
Shits not going well- At all. This is damage control, plain and simple and now with typical word games to give the impression that telling people they are fired is NOT really laying anyone off- its "Streamlining".
EDIT- Everything SC has done of late has been damage control and redirection- Even their "Attorney response" to DS was really meant to play to the crowd- funding. I rarely hear high powered attorneys use the word "Troll" do you? Is this a new legal term? Even that letter was meant to invigorate the crowd...Funding. =P
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck which is crashing hard.
That said, they will release something to try and fulfill their legal obligation since they (at this point) can see the future and it isnt pretty. So get ready for a broken,buggy ass POS "game" and "we tried..."
Even their "Attorney response" to DS was really meant to play to the crowd- funding. I rarely hear high powered attorneys use the word "Troll" do you? Is this a new legal term? Even that letter was meant to invigorate the crowd...Funding. =P
Except that CIG never made the letter public. Everything written in there was not meant to be heard by the internet at large. It was not the CIG attorney that leaked the letter, so it was never meant to "play to the crowd".
More PR spin from the masters of spin. If people can't figure out by now this project is in trouble, they have fanboy blinders stapled to their heads or something. Chris Roberts is notorious for going way over budget and long past deadlines. I don't see how the fact that he's hired everyone he's related to helps the situation either. This is right on track for being the biggest crowdfunding fail of all time. The only bad thing is we are probably going to have to wait a few more years to even see a release. What was the original projected release date Q4 2014 I think? LOL.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all
rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not
or cannot fulfill. (This
is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to
create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their
projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that
backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel
that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project
and fulfill.
Pretty sure that shows you are totally wrong. Like I said Roberts has to be scared, legally backers can go after everything he owns. That is a legal contract between Roberts and backers. Would you like to rephrase the comment you just made?
Even their "Attorney response" to DS was really meant to play to the crowd- funding. I rarely hear high powered attorneys use the word "Troll" do you? Is this a new legal term? Even that letter was meant to invigorate the crowd...Funding. =P
Except that CIG never made the letter public. Everything written in there was not meant to be heard by the internet at large. It was not the CIG attorney that leaked the letter, so it was never meant to "play to the crowd".
Have fun
Bullshit-
No legal team ever would use the word "troll" when corresponding to another legal team on an opposing side. EDIT- Unless it was meant to reach the masses and provide 'talking points' and 'spin'-
That was meant to 'rile the masses" and provide talking points to the fans and viral marketers.
"Troll" is not a legal term and has no basis in law. Skilled attorneys would use legal words if that was meant to be read only by another attorney, DS and eventually (possibly) the courts-Its slang, dude....But the fanboys know what it means and it went along perfectly with the narrative CIG wants spun.
You're not that naive- Nobody is- maybe its the paycheck thats forming your opinions, huh?
Patent troll- may be a legal term (and is more akin to a kind hoarding of ideas to keep competition from using them) it has nothing to do with "trolling" the internet. It has nothing to do with the 'troll" DS was called by these 'high powered" attorneys in the letter we are discussing. EDIT- Unless hes being accused of buying up patents with no intention of using them so others cannot create said item outlined in the patents hes hoarding.
TROLL- (the way it is used by us and the internet) is NOT a legal term- It would be defined along the lines of "harassment" or something else that already is an established legal word.
try again.
Also- try Blacks Law as its a wee bit more accurate than wiki when discussing legal terms.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
What an idiotic thing to say. If CR closed up shop tomorrow he'd have so many lawsuits thrown his way he'd have to move to Russia to hide. He is contractually obligated to deliver a functional game. If he doesn't he's either going to end up in jail for fraud (unlikely) or broke for the rest of his life (more likely).
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
What an idiotic thing to say. If CR closed up shop tomorrow he'd have so many lawsuits thrown his way he'd have to move to Russia to hide. He is contractually obligated to deliver a functional game. If he doesn't he's either going to end up in jail for fraud (unlikely) or broke for the rest of his life (more likely).
Which brings up the point about his brother and opening overseas.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
What an idiotic thing to say. If CR closed up shop tomorrow he'd have so many lawsuits thrown his way he'd have to move to Russia to hide. He is contractually obligated to deliver a functional game. If he doesn't he's either going to end up in jail for fraud (unlikely) or broke for the rest of his life (more likely).
How do you sue if there is no more money ? They could just spend all the money, say they tried and failed and move on. Look at Greedmonger.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
What an idiotic thing to say. If CR closed up shop tomorrow he'd have so many lawsuits thrown his way he'd have to move to Russia to hide. He is contractually obligated to deliver a functional game. If he doesn't he's either going to end up in jail for fraud (unlikely) or broke for the rest of his life (more likely).
How do you sue if there is no more money ? They could just spend all the money, say they tried and failed and move on. Look at Greedmonger.
This wont be so simple-
GM never went to an actual lawsuit and thus no books were ever opened to see if any wrongdoing actually happened. In this cases this could start as a criminal complaint or even ifnot- Assets could be liquidated and liens issued.- edit- Example- The OJ Simpsons ruling when he was 'broke"-
This isnt going to be GM merely because we are talking about nearly 100 million dollars which is larger than the GDP of some nations. Also we are talking about money being wired and transferred all over the damn world which could even be more trouble if anything unlawful becomes uncovered.
IMHO they will scramble and release enough to fulfill their base ob ligation which will be a barely functioning 'game" and at that point the waters will be so muddy that there probably wont be legal action- BUT they have to string a game together and right now its hard to ascertain if that will even be possible.
The 80/20 rule comes into play- 80% of the work comes during the last 20% of the project (generally)- So I imagine even stringing together something workable before the books are forced open MIGHT not even be feasible.
Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
What an idiotic thing to say. If CR closed up shop tomorrow he'd have so many lawsuits thrown his way he'd have to move to Russia to hide. He is contractually obligated to deliver a functional game. If he doesn't he's either going to end up in jail for fraud (unlikely) or broke for the rest of his life (more likely).
How do you sue if there is no more money ? They could just spend all the money, say they tried and failed and move on. Look at Greedmonger.
You go after everything he owns. Which is why opening a company and putting his brother in charge of it is a bad thing for the backers. But then there is international laws which could really open a can of worms for him.
But there would need to be something to liquidate, 90% of the 100 million will be gone in salaries, if not more. If the game doesn't happen, there is nothing we can do about it. So I'd rather hope that it actually gets made.
But there would need to be something to liquidate, 90% of the 100 million will be gone in salaries, if not more. If the game doesn't happen, there is nothing we can do about it. So I'd rather hope that it actually gets made.
It doesnt work that way-
first there is always something to liquidate (they took OJ Simpsons trophy collection that he earned for gods sake) EDIT- In a roundabout way thats what led him to his current prison sentence.
Second there are liens. you dont have to have money to have liens placed against you.
Thats why 'Im broke you cant sue me" does not work.
Even in GMs case had those books opened they would have found a way to squuze blood from a stone or that stone would never own anything again. EDIT- I saw those 'books" i.e skype itemization
The new $450 ship should be for sale soon (maybe already is- havnt exactly looked) and over at SC central the forums were abuzz with people talking about what a "fantastic price" that is and how generous CIG is for offering such a great picture of a concept for only $450.
Comments
Have fun
Here you are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding
"Each individual acts as an agent of the offering, selecting and promoting the projects in which they believe. "
Have fun
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Have a great and nice Football Sunday!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Always a great read to see the usual suspects on both sides arguing over other people's livelihoods.
The only exception is if you are at the top of the company and / or in a position where your heading the multiple projects being worked on. Programmers, designers, artest, ect. They are all positions that come and go and games start and end production. They are in essence throwaway positions (sucks to say it that way but its the god honest truth). A company can not be expected to hang onto people that it no longer needs. If you start development on a game / project you may need 20 programmers. But by the time that project is nearing finish you may only need 5. The company can not just eat 15 other programmers just setting around doing in essence nothing. And there is not always another project in the pipeline. Sometimes things are just a one off and your just needed to do X job until its finished.
Working as intended until doom calls.
If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice. So calm down with the demands.
If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.
That aside I find it funny that the whole point of 'crowdfunding' (and SC) was to get away from the evil., lying, greedy corporations and now we have SC using corporate double-speak and acting FAR MORE shady than most corporations (and with no oversight ) as they near 100 million in funding from fans.
Examine the statement- "Streamlining" by letting people go but "No,. we're not laying anyone off" and "everythings great- trust us"
Streamlining by getting rid of staff IS laying people off. Its twisting words and playing with semantics. Its why we dont trust those greedy corporations lolz.
Anyhow, knew this statement was coming.
Shits not going well- At all. This is damage control, plain and simple and now with typical word games to give the impression that telling people they are fired is NOT really laying anyone off- its "Streamlining".
EDIT- Everything SC has done of late has been damage control and redirection- Even their "Attorney response" to DS was really meant to play to the crowd- funding. I rarely hear high powered attorneys use the word "Troll" do you? Is this a new legal term? Even that letter was meant to invigorate the crowd...Funding. =P
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck which is crashing hard.
That said, they will release something to try and fulfill their legal obligation since they (at this point) can see the future and it isnt pretty. So get ready for a broken,buggy ass POS "game" and "we tried..."
We are close to full on "red alert" [-
Have fun
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.Pretty sure that shows you are totally wrong. Like I said Roberts has to be scared, legally backers can go after everything he owns. That is a legal contract between Roberts and backers. Would you like to rephrase the comment you just made?
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
No legal team ever would use the word "troll" when corresponding to another legal team on an opposing side. EDIT- Unless it was meant to reach the masses and provide 'talking points' and 'spin'-
That was meant to 'rile the masses" and provide talking points to the fans and viral marketers.
"Troll" is not a legal term and has no basis in law. Skilled attorneys would use legal words if that was meant to be read only by another attorney, DS and eventually (possibly) the courts-Its slang, dude....But the fanboys know what it means and it went along perfectly with the narrative CIG wants spun.
You're not that naive- Nobody is- maybe its the paycheck thats forming your opinions, huh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll
Have fun
Patent troll- may be a legal term (and is more akin to a kind hoarding of ideas to keep competition from using them) it has nothing to do with "trolling" the internet. It has nothing to do with the 'troll" DS was called by these 'high powered" attorneys in the letter we are discussing. EDIT- Unless hes being accused of buying up patents with no intention of using them so others cannot create said item outlined in the patents hes hoarding.
TROLL- (the way it is used by us and the internet) is NOT a legal term- It would be defined along the lines of "harassment" or something else that already is an established legal word.
try again.
Also- try Blacks Law as its a wee bit more accurate than wiki when discussing legal terms.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
GM never went to an actual lawsuit and thus no books were ever opened to see if any wrongdoing actually happened. In this cases this could start as a criminal complaint or even ifnot- Assets could be liquidated and liens issued.- edit- Example- The OJ Simpsons ruling when he was 'broke"-
This isnt going to be GM merely because we are talking about nearly 100 million dollars which is larger than the GDP of some nations. Also we are talking about money being wired and transferred all over the damn world which could even be more trouble if anything unlawful becomes uncovered.
IMHO they will scramble and release enough to fulfill their base ob ligation which will be a barely functioning 'game" and at that point the waters will be so muddy that there probably wont be legal action- BUT they have to string a game together and right now its hard to ascertain if that will even be possible.
The 80/20 rule comes into play- 80% of the work comes during the last 20% of the project (generally)- So I imagine even stringing together something workable before the books are forced open MIGHT not even be feasible.
A whole lot of what ifs-
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
first there is always something to liquidate (they took OJ Simpsons trophy collection that he earned for gods sake) EDIT- In a roundabout way thats what led him to his current prison sentence.
Second there are liens. you dont have to have money to have liens placed against you.
Thats why 'Im broke you cant sue me" does not work.
Even in GMs case had those books opened they would have found a way to squuze blood from a stone or that stone would never own anything again. EDIT- I saw those 'books" i.e skype itemization
Is there still time to buy a ship?
The new $450 ship should be for sale soon (maybe already is- havnt exactly looked) and over at SC central the forums were abuzz with people talking about what a "fantastic price" that is and how generous CIG is for offering such a great picture of a concept for only $450.
Act fast-