I feel a lot of this depends on how good you are at suspending your disbelief. Pretty much any story any where is going to be somewhat cliche. Movies, books, games, tv shows, etc., all use extremely similar plot devices to move the story along. Hell, if you even break down any story to the core it's usually just protagonist vs. antagonist, plot devices introduce the two, there's conflict, climax, anti-climax and resolution typically with the protagonist "winning". The typical difference between a good and bad story is writing and the users ability to suspend disbelief (which is heavily affected by writing).
Yup, in a mmo you might be one out of one million "chosen ones", but it's how YOU choose to perceive the story that determines whether you immerse yourself or not. If you choose to dwell on the fact that everyone else around you is doing the same quest, well yeah you're going to feel less involved. If you ignore everyone else and treat them like extras in a scene, well then you may find yourself enjoying things a bit more.
I do enjoy how GW2 delivers the personal story though. It's all instanced, and you can bring friends. However, you're not directly seeing the "masses" who are also completing the same story as you. It adds a layer to the veil to assist with the suspension of disbelief.
So...Treat the MMO as if you're the only person in the world. Because that really spells out "MMO experience".
People are complaining that in many storylines for mmos they are one of many "chosen ones". I get the complaint, but at the same time the suspension of disbelief falls on the user. In terms of storyline, specifically, you are the only one doing it as far as your character is concerned. Anyone else in the immediate area, who isn't in your group, can basically be treated like an extra, like I said.
The MMO experience, better yet, experiencing a living and breathing world doesn't immediately require you to readily acknowledge anyone else around you. You are but one of many, as a collective you make a world, but whether you choose to acknowledge anyone else is immaterial to the story itself. Which is what we are discussing.
Let me ask this to those who have an issue with being one of a million chosen ones. Do you have a problem playing the story in a single player rpg? When Skyrim launched there were something like 500,000 steam users playing all at once. Did it bother you that there was 500,000 others playing the exact same opening scene as you if you played at the launch? The only difference between playing a story in a srpg vs. mmo is that there are other players immediately around you in a mmo.
What's the saying? Something like 'there are only 6 truly original stories.' It's not the originality anymore with MMO stories, or books or tv films. They all fall into a few well worn patterns. I think it's in the telling of those stories. In this case, I think MMOs are doing better than in the past. There are several MMOs that are story driven and for those who like that sort of thing, it is a good time to play, I think.
While I think you are correct, I also think the problem is MMO's aren't supposed to deliver stories, that's for single player RPG's. The design should permit the players to create the stories a la EVE which actually resolves most of the issues you stated.
If you want a good fantasy story, consider reading a novel
We have a winner! MMO's should be a big open dangerous world in which you and your guild mates create your own stories.
Ugh, not interested in "create your own stories". Games have the potential to be _better_ than novels because they can be interactive illustrated novels.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
While I think you are correct, I also think the problem is MMO's aren't supposed to deliver stories, that's for single player RPG's. The design should permit the players to create the stories a la EVE which actually resolves most of the issues you stated.
If you want a good fantasy story, consider reading a novel
We have a winner! MMO's should be a big open dangerous world in which you and your guild mates create your own stories.
Ugh, not interested in "create your own stories". Games have the potential to be _better_ than novels because they can be interactive illustrated novels.
For a MMORPG I'd rather create a legend with other players than be hand fed stories like a single player game. I rather play a single player game if I am going to play a single player game.
Quite honestly, MMOs shouldn't be anything other than a game that is custom tailored to it's own unique target audience. It's impossible to generalize it. Making decisions based on general "should be"s would be horrible game design.
Story based and world based are both very viable approaches and will work great in their respective target segments.
The "everyone is a hero" problem mentioned above is indeed a tricky one. The game will lose some customers either way, epic "you're the hero" stories or not. Either because it's not epic enough and people don't feel like heroes or because of the 1000heroes problem causing people to not be able to immerse. So it kinda boils down being a target audience and money issue too. Aim at one or the other (whichever is a better fit / potentially more profitable for your game) and try to hit it exactly. The other solution would be to come up with some really innovative gameplay systems and world setups that can satisfy both sides, but that ofcourse has it's own assortment of pitfalls.
MMOs increasingly rely on a story to lead you through the world and the lore; be they personal stories, a main questline or individual quest arcs. To me they all feel rather tired and derivative...
They are my thoughts on the subject, please share your own.
ok.
They are tired and erivative because they, in terms of MMORPGs, are crap and ill suited.
My thoughts is that a huge part of MMORPGs going 'wrong' was the focus on 'story'. It's always gonna be a bullshit shadow of what single player games do well, so why even bother? This genre should just do what it does well and stop trying to be single player RPGs.
The first key feature of a classic MMORPG has always been community, the second has been self determination (giving the player space to form his own story in his head as he goes). When solo story driven play became the focus it all went to shit. It delivered in the short term, sure, because the new breed of fan was just here because it was the fashionable thing to be doing and that's all they knew, but in terms of the industry it was a case of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
Scripted stories have been awful for the genre. Dump them.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
There are upsides and downsides to story telling approaches, there are upsides and downsides to the "create your own stories" approach. Being able to enjoy them both seems to be a rare thing around these parts, I for one can, and see the merits in both ways of doing things.
Story MMO's work out of the box, just as any other game does, the other method not so much, which is the biggest draw back to the create your own story idea. It only works with the right type of community, and can be easily ruined by that community. This is why IMO you see more of the former rather than the latter. Hire a decent writing team, offer decent game-play you have yourself a decent game. It's not so easy to create the open ended scenario many clamor for here. As it's not really up to the development team what type of experience their game will offer, it's on the players, that's an extremely risky thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
The MMO experience, better yet, experiencing a living and breathing world doesn't immediately require you to readily acknowledge anyone else around you. You are but one of many, as a collective you make a world, but whether you choose to acknowledge anyone else is immaterial to the story itself. Which is what we are discussing.
Let me ask this to those who have an issue with being one of a million chosen ones. Do you have a problem playing the story in a single player rpg? When Skyrim launched there were something like 500,000 steam users playing all at once. Did it bother you that there was 500,000 others playing the exact same opening scene as you if you played at the launch? The only difference between playing a story in a srpg vs. mmo is that there are other players immediately around you in a mmo.
I self identify as a monkey.
It's impossible to generalize it. Making decisions based on general "should be"s would be horrible game design.
Story based and world based are both very viable approaches and will work great in their respective target segments.
The "everyone is a hero" problem mentioned above is indeed a tricky one.
The game will lose some customers either way, epic "you're the hero" stories or not.
Either because it's not epic enough and people don't feel like heroes or because of the 1000heroes problem causing people to not be able to immerse.
So it kinda boils down being a target audience and money issue too. Aim at one or the other (whichever is a better fit / potentially more profitable for your game) and try to hit it exactly.
The other solution would be to come up with some really innovative gameplay systems and world setups that can satisfy both sides, but that ofcourse has it's own assortment of pitfalls.
ok.
They are tired and erivative because they, in terms of MMORPGs, are crap and ill suited.
My thoughts is that a huge part of MMORPGs going 'wrong' was the focus on 'story'. It's always gonna be a bullshit shadow of what single player games do well, so why even bother? This genre should just do what it does well and stop trying to be single player RPGs.
The first key feature of a classic MMORPG has always been community, the second has been self determination (giving the player space to form his own story in his head as he goes). When solo story driven play became the focus it all went to shit. It delivered in the short term, sure, because the new breed of fan was just here because it was the fashionable thing to be doing and that's all they knew, but in terms of the industry it was a case of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
Scripted stories have been awful for the genre. Dump them.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
There are upsides and downsides to story telling approaches, there are upsides and downsides to the "create your own stories" approach. Being able to enjoy them both seems to be a rare thing around these parts, I for one can, and see the merits in both ways of doing things.
Story MMO's work out of the box, just as any other game does, the other method not so much, which is the biggest draw back to the create your own story idea. It only works with the right type of community, and can be easily ruined by that community. This is why IMO you see more of the former rather than the latter. Hire a decent writing team, offer decent game-play you have yourself a decent game. It's not so easy to create the open ended scenario many clamor for here. As it's not really up to the development team what type of experience their game will offer, it's on the players, that's an extremely risky thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson