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Whales in F2P - how much do they spend?

laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,123
edited September 2015 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Reading the recent F2P articles, I've been curious how much do the most spending players actually spend.

I have seen some proportionate figures, showing what % do whales spend in relation to other groups.

Looking at it from an individual's perspective, how much would I be spending in $ if I were at the end of the spectrum? 200$, 1000$, do some people spend more than 2000$ on a F2P mobile game?
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Comments

  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    I haven't seen any figures, and I doubt any F2P titles would release them. I think that the ever escalating prices of pre-order packs can provide some indication of what whales are willing to spend.  
  • JaimlJaiml Member UncommonPosts: 130
    I hope someone has solid numbers but I heard it is in the $10,000+

    I personally know people who spend $1,000 a month on F2P mobile games.

    Personally I think it is stupid but it is their money...
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 33,142
    I've heard of players spending thousands.

    but it sort of makes sense because if a game requires x amount of dollars to say afloat, let alone thrive, it's going to need a LOT of money. Even just to recoup the investment. If the majority of the players spend "nothing" then the only way to stay in business is to court people who have a LOT of money and are willing to spend it.

    If you read the interview with one of Funcom's founders, he says that some of their investors were very rich people who though nothing of spending a few million because it was "fun".

    So there are people out there who wouldn't even blink at several thousand.


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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    The woes of e.g. Zynga suggest "not enough" and / or "for not long enough".

    Publishers have talked about wanting everyone to "pay something" - even if its only 99 pennies - but words and actions are not necessarily in accord.
  • parpinparpin Member UncommonPosts: 220
    the hyper crate in swtor almost cost 50$ but the whales sell it for almost 5 million in game currency which is almost easy to get if you play 2 hours a day for 10 days..you can buy hyper crate...so yes the whales are big in swtor.
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Enough to keep games making a sufficient profit.  What else matters?

    VG

  • HighestHandHighestHand Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Whales spend a lot... I was a whale for this game called puzzle and dragons and I have spent about $2,000 dollars. 

    Then there are others who spent even more than me around the $10,000 range. Then there are some that lose count, but they claim they spend $300 a month on it because they have good jobs. 

    But that is just from PAD. It is a really popular game so I expect whales to spend a little more on this game than some others. 
  • danmax67danmax67 Member UncommonPosts: 37
    Third-hand, but a friend who used to play Game of War (cell phone game) claimed some people there spend $2-3,000 per month. I find it hard to imagine, but I suppose it's possible.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Back in the days of AOL and TSN/IGN, you were paying $6.00/hour to play their games.  There were a lot of people racking up hundreds of dollars every month.  So it isn't surprising that people 20+ years later are willing to spend thousands.
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  • donger56donger56 Member RarePosts: 443
    Well sadly I know several people who have spent themselves into some serious financial disasters with F2P games. Some have spend upwards of 20k on one game. I guess it is the same as having a gambling problem or something like that. I don't blame the companies, but they sure do everything they can to sucker people into spending on impulse with flash sales and lot's or rewards for high spending rates in a short time. I almost never cash shop in games so I guess those people keep the servers online for me to play for free. I still think some of the tactics they use borders on predatory. Especially in pvp oriented games people really go nuts and over spend it seems. 
  • DrisdaneDrisdane Member UncommonPosts: 97
    I spent almost $1,000 in 2 months on an F2P-B2W game once (Wartune), and I was nowhere close to the upper echelon of players. The top 2 players that come to mind probably spent $12,000 - $15,000 in that same time period. It was sickening, but as a previous poster said, it is their money to spend. It really does make it difficult for free players to remain competitive, however, when that type of cash is required to be competitive.
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Some people are lonely and only have the social interactions of games.  Some people have gambling issues or lack any sense of spending control.  Some of these people drop thousands a month.  Its honestly sad when you think about it.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • DrisdaneDrisdane Member UncommonPosts: 97
    @Talonsin It isn't always "sad" as you put it. To some people, that amount of money may be negligible, and if that brings them enjoyment, who are we to tell them how to spend. In other cases, yeah, I could see how it could lead to huge debt levels for an everyday person with an addictive personality.
  • theAsnatheAsna Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Is it really that significant how much a big whale would spend? How many big whales are there on average on any game? Is milking the "big whales" really a sustainable business model?


    I know that sometimes hobbies can get expensive. I am collecting PnP rulebooks. Some books will be expensive and others will be available at discount prices so it evens out. Overall the per year expenditures are negligible (< 150$) compared to the overall annual income.


    With MMORPGs, especially f2p titles, it's rather different. I now spend significantly less than I would when paying for a subscription. How much can you possibly spend?
    1. I can see spending money on unlocking new content, new classes. Checked.
    2. Account features like more characters slots, vault space. Checked.
    3. Cosmetic items and pets. Occasionally. Checked.
    4. Convenience ... erm items for the lazy. Not Checked.
    5. Server transfers. Well. I prefer rerolling. Not checked.
    6. Respec your character. Occasionally but only with in-game currency. Not checked.
    7. Purchasing in game items (e.g. consumables, gear, crafting ingredients, etc.). Only with NPC vendors or via an in-game auction house. Not checked.

    3) literally costs peanuts.
    2) is a bit more costly but it's useful.
    1) Big content updates don't come that frequently. It's still significantly less than going full subscription.


    I can see that it's possible to spend hundreds of dollars a year if you go on a shopping spree. But who could sustain it?
    • Kids can't. Or if they do it's more likely that the parents will intervene sooner than later.
    • Students will have other worries. College fees, university fees, tuition fees, etc. You may be lucky and have rich parents.
    • Jobless will more likely play without paying. Well, your ISP bills, electricity, food, hosuing, etc. have priorities.
    • Employed people will have other priorities as well. Paying off university loans, property loans, car loans, divorce, children/ family, saving for vacations, etc.
    • People that run their own business will hardly find the time to play MMORPGs. In the early years you'll more likely work 50 - 70 hours a week to get things started. It's not unusual if during the starting phase you'll burn money. Why would you then additionally sink money into a game?
    • People in relationships will find it hard to spend too much on activities which the partner doesn't approve (or they'll somehow have to do it somehow in secret).

    You can do so many assumptions to who the big whales are.


    I have seen some casual games on mobile devices where with time the in-game progress gets slower and slower. You have the option to buy in-game items/ currencies to speed up that advancement, though. I may try such an MMORPG which is build in a similar way. What is more important is if the gameplay is to my liking (i.e. controls, game flow, not too shallow). That's the first barrier. After that I would see if I can play without being nickled and dimed too much.

    To be honest I could also live with a trial period (e.g. 30-60 days) as was usual some years ago. An "unlimited trial period" that most f2p games offer, doesn't make me try more games. Time and motivation are my main limiting factors when it comes to gaming. I can't play more than 2 MMORPGs at a time. And even if I'm playing 2, then I won't log in to both every day. Especially getting an overdose of the same routine in two MMORPGs (accept quest, go collect/ kill/ escort, collect reward) kills the motivation. Additionally the MMORPG I play has to compete with offline games, movies, sports, etc. and not with other MMORPGs.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    @Talonsin It isn't always "sad" as you put it. To some people, that amount of money may be negligible, and if that brings them enjoyment, who are we to tell them how to spend. In other cases, yeah, I could see how it could lead to huge debt levels for an everyday person with an addictive personality.
    That came out the wrong way.  I was thinking of the person sitting at home with no real friends who is excited to go home on Friday so he can game with internet friends.  Instead of dropping money for movie tickets or going out to eat with friends, he drops it in the cash shop each payday.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Whales are not only in free to play games. You should checkout STO. That's a sub.game that's a whales dream.
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    Hariken said:
    Whales are not only in free to play games. You should checkout STO. That's a sub.game that's a whales dream.
    Any PWE game for that matter. They are all about milking whales... which I imagine to be quite a difficult and dangerous activity.  
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Talonsin said:
    Some people are lonely and only have the social interactions of games.  Some people have gambling issues or lack any sense of spending control.  Some of these people drop thousands a month.  Its honestly sad when you think about it.
    Whats the difference, go to amazon, and look at sonys 4k projector, at 100k....................... It is the way of things, and I am not gonna even try to change it. Waste of time, the real life whales, like their power to much.... lol, in a micro of it, look at how much the game whales love their power.....
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    edited September 2015

    Hariken said:
    Whales are not only in free to play games. You should checkout STO. That's a sub.game that's a whales dream.
    Any PWE game for that matter. They are all about milking whales... which I imagine to be quite a difficult and dangerous activity.  
    Arche age, and Uncharted waters are a whales dream game..... O my bad my bad, being able to buy a super valuable tree in the cash shop, you cant get in the game isn't whale hunting, or p2w. O wait, better yet, neither is selling super boats, that you can't get in game, that are 100 times better than anything you can make in game. I have seen some one I was playing with in UCW pay 4000 a month till his injury check ran out, and he said he had to force him self to get work, even though he was injured. I never went back to that game again........
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    It really depends on the game. Also consider not just official F2P games but private servers of games as well.

    I used to dev for a couple private servers and in one game in particular (RF Online) we had a player who, after already spending a few thousand over the years on the official servers spent around $40k across a couple of iterations of our private servers over 3 or 4 years. Funny thing about it was, even without spending all that money he was already one of the top players. But he didn't spend it all on himself. He was also known to drop hundreds at a time on helping other players get into top end gear as well. To him it was all about helping his race / faction. Having stronger players on his side only made it easier for him to win wars and events.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    edited September 2015
    laxie said:
    Reading the recent F2P articles, I've been curious how much do the most spending players actually spend.

    I have seen some proportionate figures, showing what % do whales spend in relation to other groups.

    Looking at it from an individual's perspective, how much would I be spending in $ if I were at the end of the spectrum? 200$, 1000$, do some people spend more than 2000$ on a F2P mobile game?
    If you are not spending in the thousands of dollars a month range, you are not a whale. They are also sustained spenders, they do this every month (not just once). 

    Whales have been in the online gaming industry ever since the early days. I met some in Isle of Kesmai in the 80's, and again the late 90's when graphic MMORPG's took off. The faces may have changed, but the spending habits have not.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,065
    I always felt kinda sorry for people that couldnt control their spending habits....Their priorities seem to be that video games are very important and that they must "win" at them.....I guess its just low self esteem.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    I always felt kinda sorry for people that couldnt control their spending habits....Their priorities seem to be that video games are very important and that they must "win" at them.....I guess its just low self esteem.
    You can find a breakdown of spending for a whale here:

    http://www.slideshare.net/emily_greer/dont-call-them-whales-freetoplay-spenders-virtual-value-gdc-2015

    Check page 23 for the breakdown.
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    I always felt kinda sorry for people that couldnt control their spending habits....Their priorities seem to be that video games are very important and that they must "win" at them.....I guess its just low self esteem.
    You can find a breakdown of spending for a whale here:

    http://www.slideshare.net/emily_greer/dont-call-them-whales-freetoplay-spenders-virtual-value-gdc-2015

    Check page 23 for the breakdown.
    Interesting. "0.1% of our players bought in about half the revenue".  Obviously this figure is skewed hugely in F2P games where  many people may try it for a vanishingly small period of time and uninstall, so I can't put a great deal of weight on some of these statistics, but it must be concerning for developers if so much of their revenue is reliant upon such a small percentage of their playerbase.    
  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    I dont know, but I can assure you that they walk past starving families and children on the way to loading up their bank accounts and do nothing about it.
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