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Single reason why Blade & Soul will fail in the west

13

Comments

  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by timeraider
    Would suck if RNG-crafting/upgrading would be a thing... look how fucked up it workedf out to be in Archeage. Horrible fucking crafting system

    It's only a horrible system if you wrap yourself around it.  I'd rather use up my time to make gold so I could buy the gear I want from the auction house or from the trade channel.  Not once do I have to touch rng crafting for gear, I'll let others do it for me while it may be expensive to purchase, I'll still have my sanity and a comfortable amount of gold.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567

    It's another cultural difference we see in Korean MMO's, this grind and they seem to get away with it over there. The asian audience seem to have no problem with these very grindy games, which could explain why a lot of them don't do so well in the west. Apparently we don't like the grind.

     

    No doubt we'll see the same pattern we always see, a couple of months of activity and then a drop off down to the hardcore fans. Same old same old.

  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    It's another cultural difference we see in Korean MMO's, this grind and they seem to get away with it over there. The asian audience seem to have no problem with these very grindy games, which could explain why a lot of them don't do so well in the west. Apparently we don't like the grind.

     

    No doubt we'll see the same pattern we always see, a couple of months of activity and then a drop off down to the hardcore fans. Same old same old.

    So, western style RNG is based off of getting that one piece from one of the raid bosses in an instanced weekly raid.  You get one chance per week at that item and if that item does drop you usually would have to RNG roll against one or more people who have also been waiting weeks for that specific item unless your raid has a DKP system or someone just ninja loot.  By the time you get the gear you wanted from running the same raid week after week for months on end what else is there for you to do?  There's nothing left to chase.  Now you are one of the people in the guild to run others through the same raid every week, in the same instance, using the same macros, standing in the same positions, doing the same rotations.  Then expac comes and your gear is crap (insert clown music, here we go again).

     

    Western RNG may be the lesser of the two type of grind but it is the most monotonous of the two.

  • shalissarshalissar Member UncommonPosts: 508

    Oh yeah waiting for a boss drop is so much better! I can't wait to have to show my boobs to the guild leader so that in the small chance that my gear drops in a dungeon with a hefty lockout timer, I can have a better chance to get it over someone else!

    F'in' unreal.

  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608

    I've been playing the Russian version with the Eng patch, and, it sure feels dated. In a bad way.

     

    But it's also so cool looking and the combat is really flashy, and the character creation is awesome. I love the art and the music, it's just... I'm really bummed out that the AI, Pathing, world design (invisible walls, static world, incredible hand holding, lifeless npcs) really put a damper on the experience. 

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by booniedog96
    Originally posted by timeraider
    Would suck if RNG-crafting/upgrading would be a thing... look how fucked up it workedf out to be in Archeage. Horrible fucking crafting system

    It's only a horrible system if you wrap yourself around it.  I'd rather use up my time to make gold so I could buy the gear I want from the auction house or from the trade channel.  Not once do I have to touch rng crafting for gear, I'll let others do it for me while it may be expensive to purchase, I'll still have my sanity and a comfortable amount of gold.

    Don't worry, just as in ArcheAge, there will be an option to buy items in the cash shop that will drastically improve your chances to upgrade gear successfully, the more cynically minded of course might suggest that the whole RNG thing was introduced just so they could sell those 'items' to you in the first place image

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,187


    Originally posted by Caladiel
    Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Caladiel RNG in gear progression     Any counter arguments?
    Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?
    There's a factor of control in that you have to just get lucky on the drop itself.

    With Blade & Soul it's like this.

    You need crystals and essences for evolutions.

    Crystals you only get 20 each day through daily quests.

    Essences only 2 a day through daily quests.

    Alternatively you can buy these two off players for a steep price.

     

    To get Shadow weapon you need :

    Anger  (drops from Mushin Floor 8 Phase 2)

    Soldier (drops from Mushin Floor 7)

    Sorceress (drops off Po Hvaran)

    Pirate (drops off Mysterious Man)

    Get Anger to level 5

    Then get Pirate to 5 and break it through with a blue weapon, crystals and essences and gold. This step CAN fail.

    Get Pirate to level 10 now.

    Attempt to fuse it with Anger Level 5, this will cost you 72 Gold, 170 Crystals, and 20 Essences.

    If you fail this step, have fun grinding it out another week on 2 characters to get enough crystals.

     

    Now if you're lucky enough to pass this step, Do the same with Sorceress and fusing that sonovabi with Soldier.

    Same costs involved again with same risks involved again.

     

    If you pass those hurdles, you need 10 Evolution stones and another heep of crystals I bet.

     

    Now tell me that Diablo 3 is bad :P


    Ok, so you don't just get success handed to you. I am not seeing the issue here. Of course, I did not cry in old school Lineage 2 either, but eh that is me and not needing hand outs.

    I agree, I do not think the game will do very well in the West, but your point would not dissuade me from playing it.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • MothanosMothanos Member UncommonPosts: 1,910
    RNG is certainly not a western feat we embrace, it depends how big the rng is and how much effort is needed to give another attempt.

    If this is tuned in a way one needs to grind their eyeballs out or give up their social life then we just see another sub par mmo with empty servers.

    Lets wait and see what NCsoft has in store for this mmo in the west.
  • AzureSkiesAzureSkies Member UncommonPosts: 59
    It's hilarious seeing people getting touchy about the OP and then retorting with the "hand out" argument. People not wanting to sit on their asses for 5 hours a day, doing mind numbing tasks and then have all their hard work blown away by a stroke of bad luck somehow equates to...begging for handouts. 

    I definitely will try BnS and will do the grind, but all this self-righteousness is astounding. Really, you're insulting people because they don't want to spend as many hours in the game as you do? I thought we left that sort of mentality behind, along with games like EQ and Lineage.  :confounded: 
  • ShadowzzlShadowzzl Member UncommonPosts: 7
    Hard work in order to get good stuff,just like tera,i love it
  • dustyfellowdustyfellow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    dont worry there will be a pretty decent player base. as people who player korean and russian will want better pings. also tera has a pretty rng based system and is doing great.
  • CaladielCaladiel Member CommonPosts: 5
    To be clear people, I don't mind grinding but I frankly don't have the time for it due to LIFE in the REAL WORLD taking priority over a game.

    If I did have the time for it I would NOT mind.

    But let's put it this way, you need casual players to keep a game running.
    You know what publishers do to a game that doesn't get enough players? You guessed it.

    My point is that having RNG based progression in fusing gear and a chance to lose weeks of farming in a streak of bad numbers is beyond ridiculous and will turn off a lot of players.

    Also saying that tera is doing "fine" is only because first of all it's F2P and secondly the combat system is just so good people that start playing Tera keep coming back to it (me included).
    On the US side it's perhaps doing good, but the EU servers are being hit by very bad publicity because of how they started and keep going.

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,127
    I tried to have a relationship with RNG but it turned out he was an absolute flake, jerk and completely unreliable. He would cheat on me constantly rewarding some other chick who spent far less time with him but some how he thought should get his love over me who slavishly followed him about and did everything he asked. So I dumped his ass and I told him to never shadow my doorway again.


    I can never win a damn thing if you ask me to rely on luck . Lady luck ain't no lady. So RNG is something I just give up on. Every time I roll on something I really want I lose so I have learnt to make do without . Not a system I will ever spend huge amount of cash or time on because it seldom rewards me. I learnt this very early on and have since made my peace with my shit luck

  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,363
    Me and RNG don't work at all. I quit Diablo 3 over it. I would hear how people are getting these epic drops and i would rarely get legendary's to drop.
  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,472
    Caladiel said:

    I honestly don't see your point in comparing mmo's with gravity. Your analogy is complete bull. You should practice some reading comprehension.

    For korean/eastern games is due to overhyping and later on it dies (when more people reach a decent level) due to the RNG involved in progression. Overhyping kills anything if the product disappoints, regardless of where the product originated.

    The western developers sadly have a heavier hand at this, so it's more prominent.

    Eastern market is more "adjusted" to the mechanic of RNG, the western market is more adjusted to the concept of impatience and "right now matters".

    That's actually not true, even eastern developers realize that the amount of power that comes from pure RNG needs to be fixed. For instance, Dragon Nest, one of the larger enhancement offenders will be siphoning 70% of the total stats gained from maximum enhancement and adding it into the base stats of the weapon. Moreover back in 2014 the Weapon Evolution system was severely overhauled in order to make it much much easier for new players. Weapon feeding is basically a thing of the past.

    Honestly I didn't find the enhancements systems(weapon evolution) of Blade and Soul to be that strenuous, I would even say it's easier than PSO2

    Then again, Legendaries are different story. If anything is going to be the downfall of the game it is legendary weapons.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,464
    The only real thing that ever ruins Asian games for me is they never show any effort put into systems,their games all play generic which really leaves me asking why would i want to play your game over the thousand others doing the same things?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,350
    Wizardry said:
    The only real thing that ever ruins Asian games for me is they never show any effort put into systems,their games all play generic which really leaves me asking why would i want to play your game over the thousand others doing the same things?

    There are just more MMOs from Asia so that is why you think they are "all the same". Numerous differences exist between Lineage, Lineage II, Aion, Blade and Soul, Tera, Archeage, FFXIV, Black Desert, etc.
    Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War
    Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    Caladiel said:

    I honestly don't see your point in comparing mmo's with gravity. Your analogy is complete bull. You should practice some reading comprehension.

    For korean/eastern games is due to overhyping and later on it dies (when more people reach a decent level) due to the RNG involved in progression. Overhyping kills anything if the product disappoints, regardless of where the product originated.

    The western developers sadly have a heavier hand at this, so it's more prominent.

    Eastern market is more "adjusted" to the mechanic of RNG, the western market is more adjusted to the concept of impatience and "right now matters".

    That's actually not true, even eastern developers realize that the amount of power that comes from pure RNG needs to be fixed. For instance, Dragon Nest, one of the larger enhancement offenders will be siphoning 70% of the total stats gained from maximum enhancement and adding it into the base stats of the weapon. Moreover back in 2014 the Weapon Evolution system was severely overhauled in order to make it much much easier for new players. Weapon feeding is basically a thing of the past.

    Honestly I didn't find the enhancements systems(weapon evolution) of Blade and Soul to be that strenuous, I would even say it's easier than PSO2

    Then again, Legendaries are different story. If anything is going to be the downfall of the game it is legendary weapons.
    That's great to hear. I don't mind weapon feeding up to a point. A lot of western games have a take on it too (LotRO is an example). I just hate when you get to that point where you must constantly pump money or excessive time in to progress.

    Does it get to a point where you have to pvp? That is usually the thing that kills NCSoft and Korean games for me. At some point you're in pvp land unles you want to forego a major portion of the elder game. I would still be playing Aion or ArcheAge if that wasn't the case.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    Hariken said:
    Me and RNG don't work at all. I quit Diablo 3 over it. I would hear how people are getting these epic drops and i would rarely get legendary's to drop.
    That's all mmos are. RNG. All RNG all the time. How did you last this long in the sub-genre if you hate the RNG? In fact most all games, except maybe 4x strategy games, have a huge RNG in some activity or another.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • kishekishe Member UncommonPosts: 2,010
    Biggest difference between Asian and western MMOs are, asians love to grind for their level, westerners for shinier item.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,472
    Torval said:
    Caladiel said:

    I honestly don't see your point in comparing mmo's with gravity. Your analogy is complete bull. You should practice some reading comprehension.

    For korean/eastern games is due to overhyping and later on it dies (when more people reach a decent level) due to the RNG involved in progression. Overhyping kills anything if the product disappoints, regardless of where the product originated.

    The western developers sadly have a heavier hand at this, so it's more prominent.

    Eastern market is more "adjusted" to the mechanic of RNG, the western market is more adjusted to the concept of impatience and "right now matters".

    That's actually not true, even eastern developers realize that the amount of power that comes from pure RNG needs to be fixed. For instance, Dragon Nest, one of the larger enhancement offenders will be siphoning 70% of the total stats gained from maximum enhancement and adding it into the base stats of the weapon. Moreover back in 2014 the Weapon Evolution system was severely overhauled in order to make it much much easier for new players. Weapon feeding is basically a thing of the past.

    Honestly I didn't find the enhancements systems(weapon evolution) of Blade and Soul to be that strenuous, I would even say it's easier than PSO2

    Then again, Legendaries are different story. If anything is going to be the downfall of the game it is legendary weapons.
    That's great to hear. I don't mind weapon feeding up to a point. A lot of western games have a take on it too (LotRO is an example). I just hate when you get to that point where you must constantly pump money or excessive time in to progress.

    Does it get to a point where you have to pvp? That is usually the thing that kills NCSoft and Korean games for me. At some point you're in pvp land unles you want to forego a major portion of the elder game. I would still be playing Aion or ArcheAge if that wasn't the case.
    You don't have to pvp, but you do get rewarded for pvping, but no there's no forced pvp interaction. The flagging system is worked into the Doboks, so wearing a certain faction's Dobok, will allow players wearing the other faction's Dobok to attack you.

    The over-arch of the pvp systems are similar to Guild Wars 2 in which you have large scale conquest via factions, and then structured mostly uninfluenced by gear styled arena pvp. However the actual pvp itself is much different than Guild Wars 2, as pvp is wholly about eliminating your enemy rather than a primary score objective. Though there are some weird pvp events that crop every now and then.
  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    I figured this game will have some sort of "Pay 2 win" element .  Or pay 2 get better faster.


    Unfortunately people pay and until people stop paying we are stuck with these sorts of money making schemes in games .


    Kinda bad timing tho , Fallout 4 is due out in November . Why will I play this game over that?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    A pay to win pvp game.  Yea the problem is people pay tons of money to win and those who aren't willing just go somewhere else.  For some reason they don't take lessons from WOW, GW2, ESO.  Very heavy populated games with no pay to win models.  Sad thing is the pay to win pvp games would be more fun if they didn't evolve around that 1 feature.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    shalissar said:

    Oh yeah waiting for a boss drop is so much better! I can't wait to have to show my boobs to the guild leader so that in the small chance that my gear drops in a dungeon with a hefty lockout timer, I can have a better chance to get it over someone else!

    F'in' unreal.


    Hmm I assume you are speaking of WOW,  Let me help you.   All the other western mmo's have fixed this bullcrap.  Why play WOW and put up with it further?
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    Shadowzzl said:
    Hard work in order to get good stuff,just like tera,i love it
    Try and convince anyone under 30.  This clip puts it into perspective...

    http://www.newslinq.com/dragnet-speech/
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