Trove fits all requirements but I'm sure you'll find something wrong with any suggestion posted here as your primary intention is to show how your premise in OP is infallible and not actually look for help.
There are a lot of games that I consider worth a subscription simply because I enjoy them. The fact that you are unable to find anything is not indicative that there is a failure in this regard except a personal one for yourself. Thousands of players are paying and enjoying their games and quite frankly we do not want nor appreciate the type of player you are that is detrimental to the genre as a whole.
I think that your attitude and continuous struggle to free load on games has a negative and completely unnurturing effect on the genre and must be discouraged and I doubt any game developer will miss your type. Frankly I have a great deal of difficulty understanding why you still try to find games in this genre when your contempt for the games are very apparent.
Perhaps you enjoy your harangues but that does not mean we have to entertain them nor take them seriously.
Find or don't find a new game it is of no consequence.
So you wouldn't spend any money on the game, yet you want there to be content that will last you a year? How could any game company's do this?
With a donation system + cash shop that gives convenience over advantages to win or faster advance. Then the more players the game attracts, the easier it will be to afford the F2P model. We've already seen this happen. Players would gladly spend $ to contribute to a great game they enjoy, especially if the company was reasonable with its fees. Very few want to support greedy models or models that they don't know what they receiving for what they are paying.
Too many trying to derail this thread, so OK, ALRIGHT. LIST A SINGLE B2P/P2P game on the market here that justifies its cost, that it's totally worth spending the $ right now. Then we can compare it and what it offers vs other F2P products available. Also, I suggess you read the thread again, it cleary stated I would be inclined to spend $ on as well, but given what I know it's available on the market I choose not to for the time being.
You can spend how you like, play for free if you'd like, what you can't do is compare value based on your criteria vs another persons. What a game seems to offer to you, isn't always going to be what others view that it offers them.
Distopia if what you say is true then tell that to posters above who say things like F2P can't deliver what B2P/P2P could or that I can't expect to play the entire game for free. Then some say "no game is ever free", when there are P2P/B2P products out there with further cash shops and other fees attached for services like server/name/faction change, more characters, purchasing time for in game currency or purchasing ingame currency for $ (but being unable to sell ingame currency, ingame time for $) etc etc.
Then some say things like I'm not content or happy with games I DO CURRENTLY SPEND MY LIFE & PRECIOUS TIME GAMING if I make this thread. Then someone mentioned Trove that I feel that my eyesight will get damaged watching those pixels that remind me of the early days of 3D graphics in Playstation 2. Then, some say that there are plenty of games, but that I'm unable to find anything and that I'm a failure cuz of that, while the fact I'm always playing and enjoying a game proves the opposite.
Kitarad@, when you speak about something speak about "yourself" and don't bring words like "we" that implicate my ability to enjoy F2P games like the MILLIONS others as DETRIMAL to the genre as a whole. Voting with wallet is how we push the genre forward and I didn't vote for games that didn't catter to me, it's that simple.
If developers can deliver cheap products quick and deem them "profitable/successful", well more of the same will keep coming. If you want more of the same then continue paying and enjoying those games, you are welcome to do so. It is undeniable fact that the younger, less experienced audience in the gaming industry is more inclined to spending $ and I know this best from my own experience, but hey when I once played Driver on Playstation 1 even my grandfather showed interest in playing it with me...long before that my dad came to play Super Mario with me on Nintendo.
Vote with the wallet is it ? Is that where you openly admit to not spending anything on games and free load. That is voting with your wallet in your book I see.
People who enjoy games support the games they play. You on the other hand are looking for good games you can play for free so I have to say a player like you is what this genre definitely does not need or want.
I know nothing is perfect in this world, looking for a perfect game with a perfect payment model with a perfect company its a never ending waiting and will end in frustation soon or later, i live that few years ago.
Im playing ArcheAge since lunch, 1 year now, a game that is "persona non-grata" around here because of the payment model and Trion greedy, i know i know, but its the GAME i like atm and the only one that worth playing for me on the current market, it so i pay the monthly fee and learn to live with the rest of "bad" things imo should never be there. I allways prefer to see the bright side insted of the dark side and in every negative point about ArcheAge theres the oposite positive point.
In the end im very happy with my game of choice making 1 year now and dont imagine myself on other game in at least 1 more year. So yeah, after 10years im a happy gamer again
Wich the same for u all, whatever game you choose.
@kiterad, Until I can find a game that I'm satisfied with to open my wallet I'll continue to play games that can handle being F2P until that X game arrives that totally justifies its fees (for me).
In my book there are two type of games, ones that I can totally enjoy every moment I'm part of for years that are totally worth supporting with $ and then there are those games that I can manage to enjoy as much as I can manage to enjoy playing pong and tetris, in other words they are there to pass the time until this X game arrives.
Not long ago I purposely made a thread with a poll (now forum format is changed, can't see the poll) that I advocated that I would be gladly spending DOUBLE or TRIPLE the monthly sub for truly amazing MMORPG I could see myself immersed for many years to come.
So, please before you come with automated opinions about someone read twice what they are saying, and think three times before you bring an argument. I know I and many others have changed their spending behavior over the years and rightfully so. The industry is different today than over a decade ago. Then there were Everquest 1 and Ultima Online in 2001 when I got my PC. In 2002 FFXI and Lineage II, 2003 SWG, EVE and Ragnarok as a choice, 2004 WOW, 2005 Guild Wars...get the picture? Then in between those titles there were Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron Call, Diablo 2 and others..
Bottom line, I've benefited and will continue to benefit from the great F2P games that have come and continue to come for years until there is one superior product that's truly on a different level worthy of being supported with $. Sadly, the community responded here with anything but a product that meets those basic requirements and that is a best indicator that playing F2P games is the better choice for us gamers right now. Not only do we save more than ever, but we also vote with our wallets and I'm very optimistic a better times will come in the future both for consumers and producers.
Too many trying to derail this thread, so OK, ALRIGHT. LIST A SINGLE B2P/P2P game on the market here that justifies its cost, that it's totally worth spending the $ right now. Then we can compare it and what it offers vs other F2P products available. Also, I suggess you read the thread again, it cleary stated I would be inclined to spend $ on as well, but given what I know it's available on the market I choose not to for the time being.
You already know my answer on this, from the many times previously you've asked this question in other threads.
EVE is the one. Truly a unique gaming experience that IMO can't be equaled by any other MMORPG out there today. No need for me to list the features either, you already know what those are too.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's ironic that a game with superior MMORPG experience was officially a single player game. The game was Neverwinter Nights and it was absolutely worth every single cent ten times over. I played that game as a MMORPG very actively for five years and after that five years more but a lot more casually. Teams working on the best NWN persistent multiplayer worlds focused on content, custom support, technical support, balancing, bug fixing, storytelling and quality assurance in some cases a lot better than teams of many commercial MMORPGs. NWN games have three special ingredients: 1) incredible toolsets to create or modify content, 2) game engine that allows to host persistent multiplayer worlds and 3) dungeon master client that allows certain people appointed by a team to act as dungeon masters almost like in pen-and-paper RPGs. Those ingredients in the hands of enthusiasts with technical skills and true passion had guaranteed the superior MMORPG experience. You got all that just for the price of the single player game and its expansions.
@kiterad, Until I can find a game that I'm satisfied with to open my wallet I'll continue to play games that can handle being F2P until that X game arrives that totally justifies its fees (for me).
In my book there are two type of games, ones that I can totally enjoy every moment I'm part of for years that are totally worth supporting with $ and then there are those games that I can manage to enjoy as much as I can manage to enjoy playing pong and tetris, in other words they are there to pass the time until this X game arrives.
Not long ago I purposely made a thread with a poll (now forum format is changed, can't see the poll) that I advocated that I would be gladly spending DOUBLE or TRIPLE the monthly sub for truly amazing MMORPG I could see myself immersed for many years to come.
So, please before you come with automated opinions about someone read twice what they are saying, and think three times before you bring an argument. I know I and many others have changed their spending behavior over the years and rightfully so. The industry is different today than over a decade ago. Then there were Everquest 1 and Ultima Online in 2001 when I got my PC. In 2002 FFXI and Lineage II, 2003 SWG, EVE and Ragnarok as a choice, 2004 WOW, 2005 Guild Wars...get the picture? Then in between those titles there were Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron Call, Diablo 2 and others..
Bottom line, I've benefited and will continue to benefit from the great F2P games that have come and continue to come for years until there is one superior product that's truly on a different level worthy of being supported with $. Sadly, the community responded here with anything but a product that meets those basic requirements and that is a best indicator that playing F2P games is the better choice for us gamers right now. Not only do we save more than ever, but we also vote with our wallets and I'm very optimistic a better times will come in the future both for consumers and producers.
I'll call bullshit. Honestly, someone who openly admits to playing F2P games but finding no value in them is a bold-faced liar. If you're playing a game for more than, say, a couple of hours, you're getting value from it. If you're playing F2P games almost exclusively and claiming that you're not getting any value from them, you're a thief. There isn't a chance in hell that you'd pay 3 times the current standard subscription rate on a monthly basis for "The Ultimate MMORPG". Sorry, just not going to happen. If you're playing 40, 50, 60 hours a week in a game right now and can't justify "value" enough to crack your wallet and support a F2P game, there is absolutely no chance you're spending $45 a month on a subscription game.
I'll quote your own post that you linked above: "Believe me, I have benefited and benefited a lot with some joy, entertainment without spending a penny of some F2P products out there, but reality is these products when I look back I can't find myself think on one epic memory I deeply cherish out of playing them. So, let's see where this community stands with this."
Yeah, so, I don't really think that I'm jumping to conclusions, or being too harsh, or making assumptions here. You've said it clear as day, you continue to benefit from F2P games without spending a penny. So why would you ever? So why would you ever pay for a subscription again? The correct answer is that you wouldn't.
@CrazKanuk, you are missing one key elemenent in your entire post "mutual value", not "value". There are far more ways a player can contribute to a game than just to spend $ on it. Beside free advertisment, non paying players are crucial to keep the game populated/active and entertaining for the remainder who choose to spend on it because they see greater value in it. In fact lately I've seen more F2P games OFFER $ to the players to play their games. So, they host events with cash rewards, that's right "I'll pay you to play my game".
You are young, you'll learn, I hope how business works in life. It's not all black and white. No value? A value can be anywhere from a scale of 1 to 100. Also not all values can be measured with spending $, and then you forget the ultimate factor, my time, the time that I spend to play that game, which I could use on other far more valueable like MAKING $, which is far more valuable thing for others. Finally, the fact FFXIV is the only MMO with a sub from the last couple of years, proves that even greedy companies understand the value F2P games can bring as well as its players who are only interested to play them for free.
Then you ask why would I ever spend $ on a game ever if I can find value and joy in F2P products? The answer lies in the text you quoted, but in case you missed it, it was because I'll live only once as Kopogero and all the $ at the end I have is useless if people aren't willing to deliver what I'm interested in. I have thousands upon thousands upon thousands that I've waited for almost 5 years TO SPEND. $ was never a barrier for me.
It's the producers job to prove me that the product they've delivered worth spending $ on, it's that simple. F2P at leasts gets some attention, attention they would never get if they were B2P/P2P, luckily producers these days are more realistic with the value of their products. So many games out there also failed to take $ because they were asking far more than what I believe their product worth, so they've ended up losing potential $ because of that...and as I've stated before two F2P took $ from me, $ they would never receive if they weren't F2P, this was long time ago though, but still it's worth mentioning.
You don't get it because while I am managing to enjoy F2P products for what they offer for the time being, it's sad and disturbing that there is not one game out there that can deliver some of the most basic things outlined in this thread. Developers simply fail to bring longlivity to their games and keep their playerbase to enjoy progressing their characters, mainly because the design of those given games is flawed...so naturally players don't stay for too long.
On the other hand games like DOTA 2, CS:GO that are repetitive and meaningless in the long run still appeal to millions of players, mainly because of their competive nature amongst the players. They are in a way their own content to each other, giving each other challenge, conflict, drama, some community and so forth.
We need a Tab Target OR Action Combat w/skillbar OR ARPG MMO Sandbox with progression, that also features structured competitive PvP. Make it F2P, encourage purchases for cosmetics, housing, mounts/vehicles, crafting boosts, leveling boosts whatever. When you hit max level you can play the sandbox and when you want PvP you can queue up for that. Make the PvP equalized (gear plays no role) and have objectives with an element of strategy. No Battlegrounds with 20 on 20 or 10 on 10 as that is too many to be able to communicate effectively. 5v5, 3v3 and 1v1.
I don't know why nobody has come up with anything remotely similar. I'd say Archeage, H1Z1, Guild Wars 2 are the closest, but GW2 lacks open world pvp, H1Z1 lacks strategy, and Archeage lacks structured/balanced PvP.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
@CrazKanuk, you are missing one key elemenent in your entire post "mutual value", not "value". There are far more ways a player can contribute to a game than just to spend $ on it. Beside free advertisment, non paying players are crucial to keep the game populated/active and entertaining for the remainder who choose to spend on it because they see greater value in it. In fact lately I've seen more F2P games OFFER $ to the players to play their games. So, they host events with cash rewards, that's right "I'll pay you to play my game".
You are young, you'll learn, I hope how business works in life. It's not all black and white. No value? A value can be anywhere from a scale of 1 to 100. Also not all values can be measured with spending $, and then you forget the ultimate factor, my time, the time that I spend to play that game, which I could use on other far more valueable like MAKING $, which is far more valuable thing for others. Finally, the fact FFXIV is the only MMO with a sub from the last couple of years, proves that even greedy companies understand the value F2P games can bring as well as its players who are only interested to play them for free.
Then you ask why would I ever spend $ on a game ever if I can find value and joy in F2P products? The answer lies in the text you quoted, but in case you missed it, it was because I'll live only once as Kopogero and all the $ at the end I have is useless if people aren't willing to deliver what I'm interested in. I have thousands upon thousands upon thousands that I've waited for almost 5 years TO SPEND. $ was never a barrier for me.
It's the producers job to prove me that the product they've delivered worth spending $ on, it's that simple. F2P at leasts gets some attention, attention they would never get if they were B2P/P2P, luckily producers these days are more realistic with the value of their products. So many games out there also failed to take $ because they were asking far more than what I believe their product worth, so they've ended up losing potential $ because of that...and as I've stated before two F2P took $ from me, $ they would never receive if they weren't F2P, this was long time ago though, but still it's worth mentioning.
That's what the definition of "VALUE" means.
I'm sorry, but you obviously missed the point of my post. That's fine, if I'm "young" at 36, then I'm fairly certain that you're old enough for me to cut you some slack on missing simple points.
You admit that you play F2P games regularly. I'm making the assumption that you enjoy playing those F2P games. If you enjoy playing those F2P games, then they are, obviously, providing you value (they are worthy to some degree), yet you refuse to open your wallet and give them a "penny" as you put it. So, I'm saying that regardless of whether or not someone made the game of your dreams, you wouldn't spend a damn thing and you know it! So stop continuing on with it. You'd find some excuse not to play it. Why? Because there are plenty of free things that are close enough to what you want that you don't have to spend a dime on.
As far as I'm concerned, the producers of F2P games have proven to you that they deserve money, but you refuse to open your wallet. I'm sorry, but THAT is how I define a free-loader. Forget all the talk about kids or people who can't actually afford to pay anything. A free-loader, to me, is the person who, apparently, has thousands of dollars sitting in his wallet, playing 40 hours of F2P games a week and refuses to give the game a "penny". That's super that you've spent a couple dollars in a couple games, but you talk about having thousands and thousands of dollars, yet you are so entitled that you think that the game owes you something simply for being there. In reality, you're a drain on the system. Look at your comments, you're basically shitting on F2P, yet you admittedly play F2P exclusively and don't put any money into it.
Probably mentioned before but some games now offer free progression to level 20.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Trove fits all requirements but I'm sure you'll find something wrong with any suggestion posted here as your primary intention is to show how your premise in OP is infallible and not actually look for help.
Yeah there's this bizarre irony that he's ignored basically everyone who legitimately answers his questions. It's like he doesn't want to know truth.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I wish I could downvote your post, people like you are the reason the MMO industry is huge pile of crap right now. The F2P business model has done nothing but turn online gaming into a vapid, antisocial, P2W cash-grab. F2P is the opposite of 'security' when it comes to online games.
You want progression? You probably don't even know what that is. Your 'long term goal' should be to have fun, not acquire gear and points for the sake of acquiring more gear and points.
You think games aren't populated? You obviously haven't played many games then, and yet here you are complaining about ALL of them.
Plenty of MMOs have been released recently, and I'm not surprised you think there haven't been. The problem is a lack of quality MMOs, and I think you know who I blame for their nonexistence.
Trove fits all requirements but I'm sure you'll find something wrong with any suggestion posted here as your primary intention is to show how your premise in OP is infallible and not actually look for help.
Yeah there's this bizarre irony that he's ignored basically everyone who legitimately answers his questions. It's like he doesn't want to know truth.
That would be exactly the game he's playing as it would bring the thread to a close by invalidating his OP, pretty standard for most of these types of post.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only game I personally recommend nowadays is World of Warships, but it's not really a mmorpg. In my personal opinion there isn't really any game that's buy to play or F2p that's any good right now. Sure there is some games out there that seem good but always look at the company who is in charge of the game, and always check the reviews. Fortunately I think very soon some exciting F2p games might be released to check out; so keep your eyes open in the next few months.
Trove fits all requirements but I'm sure you'll find something wrong with any suggestion posted here as your primary intention is to show how your premise in OP is infallible and not actually look for help.
Yeah there's this bizarre irony that he's ignored basically everyone who legitimately answers his questions. It's like he doesn't want to know truth.
@Axehilt, I have no comment on you because for you everything and everyone are everwhere for everybody, except the OP. Show me a post the last time you've replayed in a thread where you actually agreeing with the OP. There must be a single post somewhere there out of those 9k replays...
By everyone you must've meant nobody? Cuz nobody, not a single person in this thread cared to elaborate about a certain title released in the last 5 years, except GW2, which is B2P themepark that's finally releasing its expansion after 3 years and 2 months. I trully wish the best for it. Trove on the other hand is designed predominantly for preteens and he purposely mentioned it to troll me with it. The joke is on the rest who actually thought he was serious with it.
@Dead_guy, no people like me are those who didn't spend $ on anything new that was released in almost 5 years, because if I did that it would mean I want to see more sequels of those titles, well I'm sorry but I don't. I'm not interested in them and I'm not interested in clones of more clones of World of Warcraft, or some other story driven themeparks. I'm interested in real MMORPG's, the type I clearly outlined above...
Dead_guy when you said my long term progression should be to "have fun" but not gear up, improve my character for the sake of improving it further with more gear, you pretty much described every MMO released in these 5 years, which I didn't spend $ on. That's what themepark MMO's do with levels and raids/dungeons, set on a single path, where the developers are in full control of the entire world, while the players only ride those rides and continue to ride them until they release new ones.
So, you should be thanking me I managed to resist the massive hype from titles that I predicted will go F2P long before they do like SWTOR as well as avoiding FFXIV and Guild Wars 2. Thank me that I'm pushing for virtual worlds with player driven quests, economy, stories and where communities as well as player actions matter to everyone around. If i want to kill mobs with my friends, I'll go play some co-op single player game. If you blaming for the lack of quality MMO, blame those who are happy supporting these products.
@Kyleran, EVE is in a free fall and for good reasons. It's like the Titanic right now, lost 18% of its subs, I really wonder why...wait you should know best since you are part of it. I guess CCP understands it's time to abandon the ship before it takes them with them and hopefully they will release a far superior sandbox, thx to their great work as well as learning experience with EVE.
It's ironic that a game with superior MMORPG experience was officially a single player game. The game was Neverwinter Nights and it was absolutely worth every single cent ten times over. I played that game as a MMORPG very actively for five years and after that five years more but a lot more casually. Teams working on the best NWN persistent multiplayer worlds focused on content, custom support, technical support, balancing, bug fixing, storytelling and quality assurance in some cases a lot better than teams of many commercial MMORPGs. NWN games have three special ingredients: 1) incredible toolsets to create or modify content, 2) game engine that allows to host persistent multiplayer worlds and 3) dungeon master client that allows certain people appointed by a team to act as dungeon masters almost like in pen-and-paper RPGs. Those ingredients in the hands of enthusiasts with technical skills and true passion had guaranteed the superior MMORPG experience. You got all that just for the price of the single player game and its expansions.
This is such a great post and a worthy suggestion to the OP. The diamond edition is available on GOG for $10.00 This game was released in 2002 and 13 years later still has a vibrant community. Head over to the vault ( http://neverwintervault.org/ ) and you will see that the fans are still creating wonderful in-depth mods. Find a persistent server thru Gamespy and enjoy whatever type fits your interest.
I think this is perfect for the OP.
For you young ones that have never played this game, try it. I don't think you will be disappointed.
Star Trek Online and Neverwinter you can play without paying a cent. You can even turn in-game currency into cash shop currency and you can buy cash shop items on the auction house.
Sounds like people want some sort of magical world where people hire, build, maintain, develop, and all those things associated with providing something at no cost to anybody. They should also provide pizza and soda for when I'm enjoying their product.
@Axehilt, I have no comment on you because for you everything and everyone are everwhere for everybody, except the OP. Show me a post the last time you've replayed in a thread where you actually agreeing with the OP. There must be a single post somewhere there out of those 9k replays...
By everyone you must've meant nobody? Cuz nobody, not a single person in this thread cared to elaborate about a certain title released in the last 5 years, except GW2, which is B2P themepark that's finally releasing its expansion after 3 years and 2 months. Trove is designed predominantly for 10 and below and he purposely mentioned it to troll me with it. The joke is on the rest who actually thought he was serious with it.
How forums work:
OPs are rarely positive because there's less motivation to randomly post something positive than to post a complaint about something you dislike.
Replies are rarely positive because of the same reason. Also you can just hit agree now so there's even less motivation to post in agreement.
Threads in forums are bumped by replies. So this compounds the two traits above: negative posts that people disagree with will continually be bumped over and over as the two sides discuss the issue. So the few positive OPs that do happen quickly fall off as negative OPs get rapidly and repeatedly bumped.
So while I have agreed with threads in the past, it only happens rarely (and I'm sure you'd discover the same was true of yourreply history.) And typically they're super short like "Agreed, but I don't have anything else to say."
By "everyone who legitimately answers his questions" I mean everyone who legitimately answers your questions. Like the time you claimed the industry was at an all-time low while the evidence pointed to the exact opposite.
An example of someone who legitimately answered your question in this thread being DMKano with Trove. Certainly you can sort this list by year to find other recent F2P MMORPGs, some of which are long-form progression games. After that, it's up to whether you want to decide not to play each of those games based on some arbitrary requirement of security and player population. That's not the full list of course, since games like Trove don't show up there, but it has several games like Archeage, Rift, and SWTOR that all fit your criteria (DCUO would too, though it probably fails the population check.)
I do agree that F2P is the better model for ensuring a game is worth it before money changes hands, but GW2 and ESO were both definitely worth the money (though GW2's progression really falls short of the mark where ESO seems better equipped to keep me playing for the long haul.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The fact that you want to be able to completely experience everything there is in a game for free before deciding whether to give the developer money is only fueling the on onslaught of shovel ware that we are getting today.
Comments
I think that your attitude and continuous struggle to free load on games has a negative and completely unnurturing effect on the genre and must be discouraged and I doubt any game developer will miss your type. Frankly I have a great deal of difficulty understanding why you still try to find games in this genre when your contempt for the games are very apparent.
Perhaps you enjoy your harangues but that does not mean we have to entertain them nor take them seriously.
Find or don't find a new game it is of no consequence.
Only MMORPG that I log into time to time is Guild Wars 2. But even that has its own problems with its cash shop and lack of quality content.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Distopia if what you say is true then tell that to posters above who say things like F2P can't deliver what B2P/P2P could or that I can't expect to play the entire game for free. Then some say "no game is ever free", when there are P2P/B2P products out there with further cash shops and other fees attached for services like server/name/faction change, more characters, purchasing time for in game currency or purchasing ingame currency for $ (but being unable to sell ingame currency, ingame time for $) etc etc.
Then some say things like I'm not content or happy with games I DO CURRENTLY SPEND MY LIFE & PRECIOUS TIME GAMING if I make this thread. Then someone mentioned Trove that I feel that my eyesight will get damaged watching those pixels that remind me of the early days of 3D graphics in Playstation 2. Then, some say that there are plenty of games, but that I'm unable to find anything and that I'm a failure cuz of that, while the fact I'm always playing and enjoying a game proves the opposite.
Kitarad@, when you speak about something speak about "yourself" and don't bring words like "we" that implicate my ability to enjoy F2P games like the MILLIONS others as DETRIMAL to the genre as a whole. Voting with wallet is how we push the genre forward and I didn't vote for games that didn't catter to me, it's that simple.
If developers can deliver cheap products quick and deem them "profitable/successful", well more of the same will keep coming. If you want more of the same then continue paying and enjoying those games, you are welcome to do so. It is undeniable fact that the younger, less experienced audience in the gaming industry is more inclined to spending $ and I know this best from my own experience, but hey when I once played Driver on Playstation 1 even my grandfather showed interest in playing it with me...long before that my dad came to play Super Mario with me on Nintendo.
People who enjoy games support the games they play. You on the other hand are looking for good games you can play for free so I have to say a player like you is what this genre definitely does not need or want.
Im playing ArcheAge since lunch, 1 year now, a game that is "persona non-grata" around here because of the payment model and Trion greedy, i know i know, but its the GAME i like atm and the only one that worth playing for me on the current market, it so i pay the monthly fee and learn to live with the rest of "bad" things imo should never be there.
I allways prefer to see the bright side insted of the dark side and in every negative point about ArcheAge theres the oposite positive point.
In the end im very happy with my game of choice making 1 year now and dont imagine myself on other game in at least 1 more year. So yeah, after 10years im a happy gamer again
Wich the same for u all, whatever game you choose.
@kiterad, Until I can find a game that I'm satisfied with to open my wallet I'll continue to play games that can handle being F2P until that X game arrives that totally justifies its fees (for me).
In my book there are two type of games, ones that I can totally enjoy every moment I'm part of for years that are totally worth supporting with $ and then there are those games that I can manage to enjoy as much as I can manage to enjoy playing pong and tetris, in other words they are there to pass the time until this X game arrives.
Not long ago I purposely made a thread with a poll (now forum format is changed, can't see the poll) that I advocated that I would be gladly spending DOUBLE or TRIPLE the monthly sub for truly amazing MMORPG I could see myself immersed for many years to come.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/431562/thread/p1
So, please before you come with automated opinions about someone read twice what they are saying, and think three times before you bring an argument. I know I and many others have changed their spending behavior over the years and rightfully so. The industry is different today than over a decade ago. Then there were Everquest 1 and Ultima Online in 2001 when I got my PC. In 2002 FFXI and Lineage II, 2003 SWG, EVE and Ragnarok as a choice, 2004 WOW, 2005 Guild Wars...get the picture? Then in between those titles there were Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron Call, Diablo 2 and others..
Bottom line, I've benefited and will continue to benefit from the great F2P games that have come and continue to come for years until there is one superior product that's truly on a different level worthy of being supported with $. Sadly, the community responded here with anything but a product that meets those basic requirements and that is a best indicator that playing F2P games is the better choice for us gamers right now. Not only do we save more than ever, but we also vote with our wallets and I'm very optimistic a better times will come in the future both for consumers and producers.
EVE is the one. Truly a unique gaming experience that IMO can't be equaled by any other MMORPG out there today. No need for me to list the features either, you already know what those are too.
/End discussion.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
* more info, screenshots and videos here
I'll quote your own post that you linked above: "Believe me, I have benefited and benefited a lot with some joy, entertainment without spending a penny of some F2P products out there, but reality is these products when I look back I can't find myself think on one epic memory I deeply cherish out of playing them. So, let's see where this community stands with this."
Yeah, so, I don't really think that I'm jumping to conclusions, or being too harsh, or making assumptions here. You've said it clear as day, you continue to benefit from F2P games without spending a penny. So why would you ever? So why would you ever pay for a subscription again? The correct answer is that you wouldn't.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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@CrazKanuk, you are missing one key elemenent in your entire post "mutual value", not "value". There are far more ways a player can contribute to a game than just to spend $ on it. Beside free advertisment, non paying players are crucial to keep the game populated/active and entertaining for the remainder who choose to spend on it because they see greater value in it. In fact lately I've seen more F2P games OFFER $ to the players to play their games. So, they host events with cash rewards, that's right "I'll pay you to play my game".
You are young, you'll learn, I hope how business works in life. It's not all black and white. No value? A value can be anywhere from a scale of 1 to 100. Also not all values can be measured with spending $, and then you forget the ultimate factor, my time, the time that I spend to play that game, which I could use on other far more valueable like MAKING $, which is far more valuable thing for others. Finally, the fact FFXIV is the only MMO with a sub from the last couple of years, proves that even greedy companies understand the value F2P games can bring as well as its players who are only interested to play them for free.
Then you ask why would I ever spend $ on a game ever if I can find value and joy in F2P products? The answer lies in the text you quoted, but in case you missed it, it was because I'll live only once as Kopogero and all the $ at the end I have is useless if people aren't willing to deliver what I'm interested in. I have thousands upon thousands upon thousands that I've waited for almost 5 years TO SPEND. $ was never a barrier for me.
It's the producers job to prove me that the product they've delivered worth spending $ on, it's that simple. F2P at leasts gets some attention, attention they would never get if they were B2P/P2P, luckily producers these days are more realistic with the value of their products. So many games out there also failed to take $ because they were asking far more than what I believe their product worth, so they've ended up losing potential $ because of that...and as I've stated before two F2P took $ from me, $ they would never receive if they weren't F2P, this was long time ago though, but still it's worth mentioning.
That's what the definition of "VALUE" means.
We need a Tab Target OR Action Combat w/skillbar OR ARPG MMO Sandbox with progression, that also features structured competitive PvP. Make it F2P, encourage purchases for cosmetics, housing, mounts/vehicles, crafting boosts, leveling boosts whatever. When you hit max level you can play the sandbox and when you want PvP you can queue up for that. Make the PvP equalized (gear plays no role) and have objectives with an element of strategy. No Battlegrounds with 20 on 20 or 10 on 10 as that is too many to be able to communicate effectively. 5v5, 3v3 and 1v1.
I don't know why nobody has come up with anything remotely similar. I'd say Archeage, H1Z1, Guild Wars 2 are the closest, but GW2 lacks open world pvp, H1Z1 lacks strategy, and Archeage lacks structured/balanced PvP.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I'm sorry, but you obviously missed the point of my post. That's fine, if I'm "young" at 36, then I'm fairly certain that you're old enough for me to cut you some slack on missing simple points.
You admit that you play F2P games regularly. I'm making the assumption that you enjoy playing those F2P games. If you enjoy playing those F2P games, then they are, obviously, providing you value (they are worthy to some degree), yet you refuse to open your wallet and give them a "penny" as you put it. So, I'm saying that regardless of whether or not someone made the game of your dreams, you wouldn't spend a damn thing and you know it! So stop continuing on with it. You'd find some excuse not to play it. Why? Because there are plenty of free things that are close enough to what you want that you don't have to spend a dime on.
As far as I'm concerned, the producers of F2P games have proven to you that they deserve money, but you refuse to open your wallet. I'm sorry, but THAT is how I define a free-loader. Forget all the talk about kids or people who can't actually afford to pay anything. A free-loader, to me, is the person who, apparently, has thousands of dollars sitting in his wallet, playing 40 hours of F2P games a week and refuses to give the game a "penny". That's super that you've spent a couple dollars in a couple games, but you talk about having thousands and thousands of dollars, yet you are so entitled that you think that the game owes you something simply for being there. In reality, you're a drain on the system. Look at your comments, you're basically shitting on F2P, yet you admittedly play F2P exclusively and don't put any money into it.
[mod edit]
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You want progression? You probably don't even know what that is. Your 'long term goal' should be to have fun, not acquire gear and points for the sake of acquiring more gear and points.
You think games aren't populated? You obviously haven't played many games then, and yet here you are complaining about ALL of them.
Plenty of MMOs have been released recently, and I'm not surprised you think there haven't been. The problem is a lack of quality MMOs, and I think you know who I blame for their nonexistence.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@Axehilt, I have no comment on you because for you everything and everyone are everwhere for everybody, except the OP. Show me a post the last time you've replayed in a thread where you actually agreeing with the OP. There must be a single post somewhere there out of those 9k replays...
By everyone you must've meant nobody? Cuz nobody, not a single person in this thread cared to elaborate about a certain title released in the last 5 years, except GW2, which is B2P themepark that's finally releasing its expansion after 3 years and 2 months. I trully wish the best for it. Trove on the other hand is designed predominantly for preteens and he purposely mentioned it to troll me with it. The joke is on the rest who actually thought he was serious with it.
@Dead_guy, no people like me are those who didn't spend $ on anything new that was released in almost 5 years, because if I did that it would mean I want to see more sequels of those titles, well I'm sorry but I don't. I'm not interested in them and I'm not interested in clones of more clones of World of Warcraft, or some other story driven themeparks. I'm interested in real MMORPG's, the type I clearly outlined above...
Dead_guy when you said my long term progression should be to "have fun" but not gear up, improve my character for the sake of improving it further with more gear, you pretty much described every MMO released in these 5 years, which I didn't spend $ on. That's what themepark MMO's do with levels and raids/dungeons, set on a single path, where the developers are in full control of the entire world, while the players only ride those rides and continue to ride them until they release new ones.
So, you should be thanking me I managed to resist the massive hype from titles that I predicted will go F2P long before they do like SWTOR as well as avoiding FFXIV and Guild Wars 2. Thank me that I'm pushing for virtual worlds with player driven quests, economy, stories and where communities as well as player actions matter to everyone around. If i want to kill mobs with my friends, I'll go play some co-op single player game. If you blaming for the lack of quality MMO, blame those who are happy supporting these products.
@Kyleran, EVE is in a free fall and for good reasons. It's like the Titanic right now, lost 18% of its subs, I really wonder why...wait you should know best since you are part of it. I guess CCP understands it's time to abandon the ship before it takes them with them and hopefully they will release a far superior sandbox, thx to their great work as well as learning experience with EVE.
The diamond edition is available on GOG for $10.00
This game was released in 2002 and 13 years later still has a vibrant community.
Head over to the vault ( http://neverwintervault.org/ ) and you will see that the fans are
still creating wonderful in-depth mods.
Find a persistent server thru Gamespy and enjoy whatever type fits your interest.
I think this is perfect for the OP.
For you young ones that have never played this game, try it. I don't think you will be disappointed.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
I self identify as a monkey.
- OPs are rarely positive because there's less motivation to randomly post something positive than to post a complaint about something you dislike.
- Replies are rarely positive because of the same reason. Also you can just hit agree now so there's even less motivation to post in agreement.
- Threads in forums are bumped by replies. So this compounds the two traits above: negative posts that people disagree with will continually be bumped over and over as the two sides discuss the issue. So the few positive OPs that do happen quickly fall off as negative OPs get rapidly and repeatedly bumped.
So while I have agreed with threads in the past, it only happens rarely (and I'm sure you'd discover the same was true of your reply history.) And typically they're super short like "Agreed, but I don't have anything else to say."By "everyone who legitimately answers his questions" I mean everyone who legitimately answers your questions. Like the time you claimed the industry was at an all-time low while the evidence pointed to the exact opposite.
An example of someone who legitimately answered your question in this thread being DMKano with Trove. Certainly you can sort this list by year to find other recent F2P MMORPGs, some of which are long-form progression games. After that, it's up to whether you want to decide not to play each of those games based on some arbitrary requirement of security and player population. That's not the full list of course, since games like Trove don't show up there, but it has several games like Archeage, Rift, and SWTOR that all fit your criteria (DCUO would too, though it probably fails the population check.)
I do agree that F2P is the better model for ensuring a game is worth it before money changes hands, but GW2 and ESO were both definitely worth the money (though GW2's progression really falls short of the mark where ESO seems better equipped to keep me playing for the long haul.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver