As much as I rail against free to play and as terrible as I heard Allods was, Skyforge is fun for me at the moment. I spent $18 and might spend another $15 or $30 down the road but no one else's wallet affects me so I don't care what other people spend. I am soloing, though, so it's not really an MMO the way I'm playing it.
Sadly I doubt it will hold my interest longer than another month or two, while a farming, trade running, housing game like AA could have kept me around for years, if only they'd done some things differently and reined in the greed. The lost potential on that one makes me sad.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I voted "Not playing anything and waiting on the next thing."
But I'm not waiting for the next thing. I'm hoping for a complete overhaul that I don't expect to ever see. Mostly because gamers can't seem to pull their heads out of their arses. They aren't happy, but want more of the same just do it so it makes them happy again. They're crack babies.
Sorry to be so blunt.
pretty much what @Amaranthar said. Not playing any MMO's and it doesn't look like that will change any time soon. Enjoying some multiplayer co-op with a buddy or 2 is about as multiplayer as my gaming gets nowadays.
How do you two reconcile this opinion with the objective evidence that here on MMORPG.com (with its unhappy vocal minority) 51% of the poll respondents have voted Satisfied or higher?
Just ignore it and pretend it isn't happening?
While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present. So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present. So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
All depends on how you slice it.
In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.) When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm trying all the games that go FTP. Not satisfied with any of them, although, some were interesting and there were a few that kept me around longer than I anticipated.
They all run into the same problem though. Crafting is non existent. No player housing and nothing to really do other than dungeon and quest crawling. Final Fantasy 14 and Archeage came close, but one was not inventive enough and the other was poorly executed.
While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present. So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
All depends on how you slice it.
In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.) When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.
As much as I rail against free to play and as terrible as I heard Allods was, Skyforge is fun for me at the moment. I spent $18 and might spend another $15 or $30 down the road but no one else's wallet affects me so I don't care what other people spend. I am soloing, though, so it's not really an MMO the way I'm playing it.
Sadly I doubt it will hold my interest longer than another month or two, while a farming, trade running, housing game like AA could have kept me around for years, if only they'd done some things differently and reined in the greed. The lost potential on that one makes me sad.
My problem is I've been playing MMO's since they were MUDs (MUSH MOO, whatever) and I was kind of lead along this path that MMO's were supposed to be world simulators. Each iteration increasing the fidelity and immersion of the world being simulated. But what happened was at some point the MMO industry as a whole gave up on the idea of MMO's as world simulators and settled on MMO's being just regular sorts of expanded single player video games. So there are MMO games I play and have some little fun in, but I'll never be satisfied.
While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present. So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
All depends on how you slice it.
In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.) When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.
This is really deceiving. Let me show you how...
"In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still
manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players."
Any business that has half it's customers unhappy is in trouble and doomed. But this is beyond a single business, it's an entire industry. That's what saves it at the present time. When things start to really change, there will be new MMO's that quickly jump to the top end and leave the present MMO's in big trouble.
"In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to
be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general
forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)"
Again, this is not a "vocal minority". This is half the poll.
"In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here."
That's a reasonable assumption. However, what we find is a heavy lean towards FtP with whales providing the bulk of the revenues. This is a big clue to the satisfaction levels of gamers as a whole. And it's not simply because "it's free" because WoW still leads the pack and has a sub (still). There's no doubt that WoW is the class of the genre, where there is doubt is that there's no quality competition to draw gamers away.
"By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with
Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)
When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre
is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more
raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)"
Of course the genre is bigger, those early days most gamers didn't even know about MMO's. Most WoW players didn't know about MMO's and that's been proven. This was a new thing, MMO's. It grew over the years simply because more people found out about them, and the idea of playing in a massive world with so many other players is a very socially enticing thing. But that doesn't mean gamers are still happy. When you look at WoW, when new MMO's came out after WoW's first few years the entire population of players would go way down (in log in terms) while they checked out the new games. And after the new games failed to be anywhere as good as WoW in the same game play those gamers went back to playing WoW (in general). This does NOT MEAN they were (still) satisfied with WoW. After all, they went to check out the other games.
(Your final point)
I don't see where this has anything to do with the topic, but I think you are right about it. Not everyone wants to play RPG's. And some of those don't want to play with other gamers. This goes back to the early days of online gaming. Cheaters, jerks, there's reasons why some people don't want to play with strangers. That still leaves many who do, and even find it very interesting to get into the large social arena. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with this topic about MMO gamers and their satisfaction level.
"In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still
manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players."
Any business that has half it's customers unhappy is in trouble and doomed. But this is beyond a single business, it's an entire industry. That's what saves it at the present time. When things start to really change, there will be new MMO's that quickly jump to the top end and leave the present MMO's in big trouble.
"In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to
be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general
forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)"
Again, this is not a "vocal minority". This is half the poll.
"In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here."
That's a reasonable assumption. However, what we find is a heavy lean towards FtP with whales providing the bulk of the revenues. This is a big clue to the satisfaction levels of gamers as a whole. And it's not simply because "it's free" because WoW still leads the pack and has a sub (still). There's no doubt that WoW is the class of the genre, where there is doubt is that there's no quality competition to draw gamers away.
"By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with
Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)
When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre
is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more
raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)"
Of course the genre is bigger, those early days most gamers didn't even know about MMO's. Most WoW players didn't know about MMO's and that's been proven. This was a new thing, MMO's. It grew over the years simply because more people found out about them, and the idea of playing in a massive world with so many other players is a very socially enticing thing. But that doesn't mean gamers are still happy. When you look at WoW, when new MMO's came out after WoW's first few years the entire population of players would go way down (in log in terms) while they checked out the new games. And after the new games failed to be anywhere as good as WoW in the same game play those gamers went back to playing WoW (in general). This does NOT MEAN they were (still) satisfied with WoW. After all, they went to check out the other games.
(Your final point)
I don't see where this has anything to do with the topic, but I think you are right about it. Not everyone wants to play RPG's. And some of those don't want to play with other gamers. This goes back to the early days of online gaming. Cheaters, jerks, there's reasons why some people don't want to play with strangers. That still leaves many who do, and even find it very interesting to get into the large social arena. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with this topic about MMO gamers and their satisfaction level.
Those players aren't the customers. We just saw how the genre is quite successful financially. The people paying? Those are the customers. Their opinions matter.
Do you need a primer on how polls work? First, if you go to a rich neighborhood with a salary poll, obviously the results are going to be skewed. Second, game forums aren't all players; they're a tiny fraction of some of the highest engaged and most opinionated players. Their opinions often do not reflect the common opinion of players playing the game, and myself I've seen this objectively proven several times (angry forum players say something is a huge problem; the data says they're objectively wrong.)
Stating that players playing a game logically like the game (or they wouldn't play) doesn't really provide us many clues beyond the obvious.
Of course it means they were satisfied with WOW. If it didn't satisfy them, they wouldn't pay money for it. The genre is bigger in part because it's a lot better at satisfying players than the grindy games of the past. Retention plays a huge role in player count, and retention essentially measures satisfaction (it measures whether players keep coming back day after day.)
The final data set was meant to show that RPGs are only 9.5% of game sales, and MMORPGs are only a subset of RPGs, so if you asked any random gamer off the street whether they were satisfied with MMORPGs you'd get maybe 6-7% of them saying they were satisfied. It was meant to drive home the overall point made by all 5 data sets; each is somewhat flawed in its own way, but the poll here on MMORPG.com (known to be a haven of MMORPG-malcontents) is a bit more flawed than normal (just as polling players in-game would be flawed in a similar but opposite way.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Overall, the total MMO category is on track to generate $11 billion in annual revenues by the end of this year, representing roughly 21% of the worldwide digital games market."
I'm currently hopping around on old MMOs trying to find something again. I would still be playing SWTOR for a bit but I keep getting nasty lag spikes that I can't seem to fix.
Your argument basically states oranges are fruit, and apples are fruit. Therefor apples are oranges.
I said he missed the POINT of the 0 voters. You said he says there are a group of people here that hate all mmorpg games. Therefor he didn't miss those 0 voters.
Some of these 0 voters actually liked the older MMORPG games and want to play those types again. That was the point. They don't hate the older type of MMORPG games, therefor they do not "hate all MMORPG games." Instead of saying "oh well they hate all mmorpg so we shouldn't listen to them", how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.
result 2:
This argument basically says "my child is immature, what?!?! you don't like sushi because it has raw fish? You are immature and behaving like my child!".
I have already stated the young person in that video I posted is someone who I AGREE WITH. So how am I behaving in a way where I am saying "the problem is with young people?" I have explicitly said in bullet points why i don't like games on the first link in my sig. And not one of those points mentions anything about the young generation.
result 3:
With this argument you strip out what I have said out of context.
I said "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right."
Therefor not all of what I have said is doom and gloom. So I am not behaving axactly as Yasha said.
CONCLUSION: Yasha is still clueless. Read the full post of what the person says before you chop it up and change it to embarrass yourself.
Result 1:
No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
A common sense expectation based on Yasha's first quote is that people would vote 0 because they basically hate MMORPGs.
Also "basically hate MMORPGs" leaves enough room for these players enjoying an exception or two, while accurately describing the fact that theybasically hate MMORPGs.
Result 2:
No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
You strongly implied something was wrong with the current state of MMORPGs (reinforced by your vote) so you did precisely what Yasha predicted by implying "all games are crap".
Your response above seems really distracted by the "the problem is with the young people" part of Yasha's quote, but nobody said that's what you did.
That said, many of the MMORPG-haters do mistakenly feel it's a "new gamer" problem.
Result 3:
It's still doom and gloom if someone says 'The end is nigh unless you listen to my demands.' Turns out 'unless you listen to my demands' doesn't make a statement any less doom and gloom.
So your glimmer of hope isn't really changing the fact that your overall tone is doom and gloom. "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want" implies you believe you speak for "we" (MMORPG gamers) and meanwhile the industry continues to make plenty of money off its actual players (the ones actually interested in MMORPGs; the actual MMORPG gamers.)
So no, Yasha's comments in this thread have been quite accurate overall.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Why they hate MMORPGs isn't what was being discussed. You feel it's important, but it's not because MMORPGs simply aren't going to be made the way the vocal minority likes -- these games are being made the way the non-vocal majority likes.
Again, you're fixated on the "young" part while ignoring the fact that you're doing exactly as Yasha described in hating modern MMORPGs. The young part doesn't really matter. The fact that you're behaving as he/she described matters.
Nobody accused you of hating all MMORPGs. We've said you basically hate MMORPGs. It's accurate. Getting angry about it won't change that.
Don't look at me regarding the terrorist bit. Either you agree with us that you're doom and gloom, or you agree that the only condition under which you allow the possibility of hope is for the industry to give into your demands.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Look, i don't care if the silent majority don't share taste with me. That's OK. But there seems to be lots of discontent players who want something else than what the industry keeps pumping year after year.
There's market for a few different kind of MMOs than those mainstream ones. I've noticed this on this very forum on similar topics like this one. Some people simply don't find an MMO game for their taste, while some people say they don't have time to play all games they would like.
So obviously there are too many of type A games, and too few of type B games. Isn't it too much to ask there was even one type B game for us to play?
Yup. The Secret World never lets me down. Also, dipping my toes into the old Lord of the Rings and Star Wars the Old Republic again. Excellent games all.
1. Your argument is so generic and judgemental. Again just because people don't like the current flavor of MMORPGs does not mean they hate MMORPGs. This is why the "why" is being discussed to help the "clueless" understand.
"hey frank, what good movies came out this month?" Frank replies "none that I liked chuck". Chuck replies "oh, so you hate movies then".
"hey frank, what do you think of chocolate icecream?" Frank replies "I don't like that flavor chuck". Chuck replies "oh so you hate ice cream". Frank replies "no I like vanilla and strawberry and many other flavors, just not chocolate". Chuck replies "oh so you just hate dairy products". Frank gives the /facepalm
DO YOU SEE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND!!!!!!!!!
2. Again you ignore what I said so I will post it for you again. I wasn't fixated on the young part, you were just the one saying this: And again, if I am "convincing myself and anyone who will listen that the problem is young people", why why why why does it not mention anything about young people in the bullet points of my sig on what is wrong with games today AAAAANNNNNNNDDDDDD why why why why why is the video created by an 18yr showing that I whole heartedly agree with what he has to say.
3. You say I basically hate MMORPGs. This is not true. I like the following MMORPGs:
Ragnarok online (before he cash shop and takeover with bots)
Priston tales
Lineage 2 (c1 - c6)
I like it when you work together with players. This is clearly lacking in 90% of the games out today and all these "MMORPGs" are solo. There are many other elements that makes an MMORPG that are not in MMORPGs today.
THE POINT IS JUST BECAUSE YOU SERVE A STEAK LIKE THIS:
DOES NOT MEAN I DO NOT LIKE STAKE, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S SERVED LIKE THIS:
"You're either doom and gloom, or you agree the industry must give into your demands." Really? There is no, "hey so the industry has been trying the same thing for the last 10 years and many gamers are left unsatisfied, so how about trying something new or different"? There are no opinions? There is no discussion? No with you everything is black and white.
Right it doesn't mean they hate MMORPGs. It means they basically hate MMORPGs. Exactly as Yasha stated.
No judgements were made, only observations of the size of each player group.
Are you like Frank? Do you like more than one modern MMORPG? It certainly doesn't seem like it, but sure if there are multiple modern MMORPGs you're satisfied with then you're right that you don't basically hate MMORPGs. Otherwise, your analogy is broken.
I asked you to stop fixating on the "young part". You claimed you weren't fixated on the "young" part. Then you re-quoted the quote with only the young part. See the problem? You're fixated on the "young" part. Stop it.
"90% of the games today" lacking teamwork is nonsense. I look forward to your extensive list (accounting for 90% of modern MMORPGs) of games where teamwork wasn't highly rewarded (often the only way to get the best gear in the game.) Until such evidence appears, we can dismiss this claim as nonsense.
Of course opinions exist. You don't think we've been discussing your doom and gloom as though it was fact, do you? We know objectively that the industry is doing quite well still, which is why we know "worse and worse" is simply a baseless doom and gloom opinion.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
First off....Nice poll. Good choices and thought out. FINALLY!! :pleased:
I'm not playing an MMO right now. Unsubbed from ESO cause I got bored. If and when another pulls me in...awesome. But D3 is entertaining me and FO4 will beyond that.
Time to catch up and wow us MMOs!
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Currently playing a lot of Pirate 101. Community demographics seem to change wildly based on time of day and even day of week, but people tend to be very social n this game. Been avoiding wikis and guides except for one particular "find 6 around the zone" quest. I like turn-based combat, and this is one of the few that offers it in an MMO.
EDIT: This forum's feature of putting a person's vote on their post is pretty cool.
I really liked Pirate 101, however the questing system just stops at a certain point and restricts you behind a pay wall. Is it still like this?
The sell the chapters individually.
So in other words, to directly answer the question, no. Nothing has changed
Since I play a lot of MMOs I'd score them in multiple ways, but I'll just pick one which I love and continues to exceed my expectations - Trove.
Trove is love
Playing Trove myself. It's an absolute blast. Also playing a good bit of Rift and Defiance, and dabbling in a little bit of WildStar. I have The Secret World downloading now, so I'll be giving that a whirl as well.
I don't think I could ever be 100% satisfied with one single MMO, but playing a few seems to scratch my different itches.
Currently playing Defiance, really enjoying it even bought a few months patron, Its like the only real shooter mmo out there and when I play it I get this fallout/borderlands/mass effect vibe which is a big plus. Definitely recommend it.
It feels like there is no game that gives you a real goal. For example Tera, you only spam pve dungeon make gear or gw2, you just I dont know meanless pvp or something I didnt even undertand. If anyone of you know twelwesky2 you know what real pvp means. That game got a shity pvp system but It was fun. Doing pvp was giving you honor that you can spend on stuff to make money and also doing pvp was for own city.
Comments
Sadly I doubt it will hold my interest longer than another month or two, while a farming, trade running, housing game like AA could have kept me around for years, if only they'd done some things differently and reined in the greed. The lost potential on that one makes me sad.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present.
So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
Once upon a time....
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If i play any game too much i get real bored,if i play in moderation then usually remains enjoyable.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They all run into the same problem though. Crafting is non existent. No player housing and nothing to really do other than dungeon and quest crawling. Final Fantasy 14 and Archeage came close, but one was not inventive enough and the other was poorly executed.
- "In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still
manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players."
Any business that has half it's customers unhappy is in trouble and doomed. But this is beyond a single business, it's an entire industry. That's what saves it at the present time. When things start to really change, there will be new MMO's that quickly jump to the top end and leave the present MMO's in big trouble.- "In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to
be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general
forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)"
Again, this is not a "vocal minority". This is half the poll.- "In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here."
That's a reasonable assumption. However, what we find is a heavy lean towards FtP with whales providing the bulk of the revenues. This is a big clue to the satisfaction levels of gamers as a whole. And it's not simply because "it's free" because WoW still leads the pack and has a sub (still). There's no doubt that WoW is the class of the genre, where there is doubt is that there's no quality competition to draw gamers away.- "By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with
Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)
When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre
is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more
raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)"
Of course the genre is bigger, those early days most gamers didn't even know about MMO's. Most WoW players didn't know about MMO's and that's been proven. This was a new thing, MMO's. It grew over the years simply because more people found out about them, and the idea of playing in a massive world with so many other players is a very socially enticing thing.But that doesn't mean gamers are still happy. When you look at WoW, when new MMO's came out after WoW's first few years the entire population of players would go way down (in log in terms) while they checked out the new games. And after the new games failed to be anywhere as good as WoW in the same game play those gamers went back to playing WoW (in general).
This does NOT MEAN they were (still) satisfied with WoW. After all, they went to check out the other games.
- (Your final point)
I don't see where this has anything to do with the topic, but I think you are right about it. Not everyone wants to play RPG's. And some of those don't want to play with other gamers. This goes back to the early days of online gaming. Cheaters, jerks, there's reasons why some people don't want to play with strangers. That still leaves many who do, and even find it very interesting to get into the large social arena. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with this topic about MMO gamers and their satisfaction level.Once upon a time....
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Overall, the total MMO category is on track to generate $11 billion in annual revenues by the end of this year, representing roughly 21% of the worldwide digital games market."
http://www.newzoo.com/insights/pcmmo-gaming-revenues-total-24-4bn-2014/
"By 2017 the PC/MMO online games market will reach $30.7 billion, accounting for 31% of total global games market revenues."
"Asia Pacific shows by far the largest overall revenues in 2014 with $14.19 billion, accounting for 58% of the total."
http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/
Lets not skew things based off one statistic that doesn't even mention the market share of MMOs.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Result 1:
- No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
- A common sense expectation based on Yasha's first quote is that people would vote 0 because they basically hate MMORPGs.
- Also "basically hate MMORPGs" leaves enough room for these players enjoying an exception or two, while accurately describing the fact that they basically hate MMORPGs.
Result 2:- No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
- You strongly implied something was wrong with the current state of MMORPGs (reinforced by your vote) so you did precisely what Yasha predicted by implying "all games are crap".
- Your response above seems really distracted by the "the problem is with the young people" part of Yasha's quote, but nobody said that's what you did.
- That said, many of the MMORPG-haters do mistakenly feel it's a "new gamer" problem.
Result 3:- It's still doom and gloom if someone says 'The end is nigh unless you listen to my demands.' Turns out 'unless you listen to my demands' doesn't make a statement any less doom and gloom.
- So your glimmer of hope isn't really changing the fact that your overall tone is doom and gloom. "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want" implies you believe you speak for "we" (MMORPG gamers) and meanwhile the industry continues to make plenty of money off its actual players (the ones actually interested in MMORPGs; the actual MMORPG gamers.)
So no, Yasha's comments in this thread have been quite accurate overall."What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No judgements were made, only observations of the size of each player group.
Are you like Frank? Do you like more than one modern MMORPG? It certainly doesn't seem like it, but sure if there are multiple modern MMORPGs you're satisfied with then you're right that you don't basically hate MMORPGs. Otherwise, your analogy is broken.
I asked you to stop fixating on the "young part". You claimed you weren't fixated on the "young" part. Then you re-quoted the quote with only the young part. See the problem? You're fixated on the "young" part. Stop it.
"90% of the games today" lacking teamwork is nonsense. I look forward to your extensive list (accounting for 90% of modern MMORPGs) of games where teamwork wasn't highly rewarded (often the only way to get the best gear in the game.) Until such evidence appears, we can dismiss this claim as nonsense.
Of course opinions exist. You don't think we've been discussing your doom and gloom as though it was fact, do you? We know objectively that the industry is doing quite well still, which is why we know "worse and worse" is simply a baseless doom and gloom opinion.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm not playing an MMO right now. Unsubbed from ESO cause I got bored. If and when another pulls me in...awesome. But D3 is entertaining me and FO4 will beyond that.
Time to catch up and wow us MMOs!
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I don't think I could ever be 100% satisfied with one single MMO, but playing a few seems to scratch my different itches.