Thanks all for the insightful answers. I made a mistake when posting by choosing the "Question" option. Oops.
The reason I asked was that instead of having a slightly fluid set number of players to draw from, millions of players now play tens to hundreds of games. Each game gets to count those accounts, whether they pay anything or not. 10 games can say "We have 30 Million players." and none of them would be lying.
Is this a good "measure" of what is successful? I guess that depends on how one defines "success."
Well that is the funny part about posting numbers,there is no legit way to talk numbers without subscriptions.
If you are not willing to pay 50 cents a day,then to me that says the game is not that good.You cannot tell me anywhere you will get a cheaper form of entertainment.
However yes,you should be playing what game is fun for you,cost should not be a factor as i said 50 cents /day is not much at all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well if its not much then give each of us 50 cents a day and see how that adds up.....You can break it down to seconds and it will be even cheaper......Then after a couple of years it hits you that youve spent 400-500 dollars on something that wasnt all that great and there are just as good free alternatives, especially if youre patient.
We really need more subscription based games again or at least games where even if it's free to play there isn't any stupid shit on the Store or anything.
Any cosmetic items that make the characters look cool or maybe mounts n such are OK but once you start adding items that others can pay REAL $$ for to gain even the smallest advantage over people who don't have fatty wallets to throw down hundreds of $$'s n such then its just blah and not fair...
I feel like Subscription is the best thing for a balanced game. The developer / producer is able to continue creating content (expansions) but at the same time keep the game safe and not have to add any special items, gear, equipment etc.. to a Shop or Store for real life currency to keep the game afloat.
It's the truth but look at World of Warcraft.. granted they've had a head start from the very beginning an they're a major company / business but still the game is going pretty good. I feel like WoW just does it right an so if another game could come out and compete with it then they shouldn't have any problems keeping afloat as well.
Where as all these other F2P games come out and are hyped so high like OMG THIS GAME IS GONNA BE AWESOME AND AMAZING!!
TERA RIFT Lord of The Rings Star Wars: The Old Republic Age of Conan AION
I'm not trying to say these games are shitty or bad etc.. Just saying a lot of these games did something wrong somewhere and because of that they're no longer top dog.
the topic on F2P vs Sub based is very hard because like with everything else there are the positives and negatives and of course everyone has their own ideas / opinions which they are entitled to.
I personally feel like if a game is going to be FREE to PLAY then that's what it should be. Not FREE to Play but if you choose to pay you get X Items or X Weapons/Gear or anything that can give you a fighting advantage over players who wish NOT to pay or can't because not everyone can.
idk.. from my perspective because I'm so use to playing subscription based games.. (ya know before F2P exsisted lol) and everything being equal I feel like it should be the same with any MMO doesn't matter if it's free to play or subscription.
I can understand free to play games need a way to make their money so they can continue running the servers etc.. but that's why you got cosmetic items or mounts/gliders (ArcheAge) or do like what Path of Exile is doing where you can get cool fire or lightning effects on ur weapons or footsteps n such like there are tons of ways to sell things that are aesthetically pleasing and people WILL pay for it.
Anyways that's my rant.. Thanks for reading if you did.
I played EQ2 for 10 years paying most of the time 29.95 for all access even when I was working on my own game. Along came FTP and with it came this new fad of railroading/P2W and instant max level. The last 2 expansions were just short of shit because they required you as a player to go in one direction only. I felt the game direction was just not in my interest anymore.
I uninstalled the game.
If the game had continued in direction they had taken back a Kurnak Expansion I probably still be paying 14.95 a month for the thing.
What I am getting at is FTP and all the instant I win( max level in a day) or P2W has gotten so old I lost complete interest in the genre as a whole.
Also - The RPG or MMORPG gone now. It has lost its meaning and purpose.
I would play them more, at least a subscription shows some form of accountability. As it is right now, f2p means free reign to fuck the customer in the ass at any time. If I could right now, I'd probably be playing City of Heroes.
What games do with cash shops these days is absolutely disgusting, especially those that use gambling boxes. At the very least gambling boxes should classify the game as an online casino and tax them 25% of their earnings accordingly.
No current MMO really justifies a subscription for me. I didn't mind at first, because i was new to the genre, and it was expected.
As the years went by though, just about every AAA MMO was the same themepark, with quest-hub driven gameplay. There was hardly any alternative pathways to level up. It really wasn't until 2010-11 when that started to change, but by that time, every MMO was going F2P already, and it was too late for the genre to keep all the players it lost to mobas.
It also wasn't until around 2012 when MMOs started to diverge from the "wow clones", and we started getting action combat (gw2, teso, tsw, tera, etc) and event based mmos (rift, gw2) instead of quests.
The last recent AAA MMO to have a subscription is FFXIV, so that's where all the subscription refugees flocked to if they didn't want to play WoW still.
Gone are the days of pure subscription models with no cash shops.
edit: As someone said previously, people pay out of habit, without truly considering if it's really worth it.
It depends on the game. I am playing some right now that I would not even consider playing if they charged a fee. If it was something that caught my attention the way SWG did, then sure I would play.
Considering the development costs of game, the developers etc, never crosses my mind. IF they offer up a free to play game, then they must have some way of supporting themselves. I know some people feel like they are in some way saying; "Thank you" for developing the game, but if a developer/publisher/whoever puts a free product out there without a plan for feeding him/herself then that is their poor decision and has no baring on my life.
I find I tend to enjoy subscription games a lot more. There are certain elements that have popped up over the years in gaming that tend to make F2P a squalid mess of hackers, bad players...and well lets just leave it at that. When you have to register and pay for a game, in my opinion, you tend to cut down on this a bit. WoW being the exception here, they were known to have quite the terrible community depending on which server you played on. However, overall I feel like a monthly fee is a far better business model.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
F2P is the buzzword of the decade. Cash shops rule and most do not have "must have" items in them. I'm curious, though, if players would still play their MMOs if they were asked to pay to play them. Are they "worth" a charged fee? Would you still log in?
I can only tell how things worked out for me.
I may have tried a dozen MMORPGs at most. That's not much regarding the available games. Of those MMORPGs I tried, only 3 qualify as main games (i.e. which I played for more than 6 months). Since I played just 1 MMORPG at a time there were no issues with paying a subscription. The games had their own features (i.e. setting, open world, build variety, complex dungeons) which attracted me to the games.
How are things now?
My main MMORPG made the transition to a f2p/b2p model. You can unlock content by buying once or go the traditional subscription scheme as well. Eventually I canceled my subscription, bought the available content at that time. You could say that I maybe overspent a little for a short period of time (up to 6 months). But I still play the game today and if you compare the costs over several years it is far less than with a traditional subscription.
With the spreading of f2p I haven't tried more MMORPGs than before. On the contrary. Back then I commited lots of time to MMORPGs. Today I frequently go back to offline games more and more. The best feature of offline games is that the devs can't ruin the fun with time. ,-)
Since most subs are $15 month I would rage quit. But if someone charged $2 month and took out the Cash Shop completely then I would stay. MMO with a shop and sub are greedy; it would have to come with it's own free game station for me to do that.
I hate gamers like this. I understand that with f2p you have other options now a days. There are many games that you never need to sub to in order to enjoy the whole game. However, if $15 a month is a big deal to you and would make you "rage quit". I think you need to reevaluate some of the choices you've made in life.
Compare and contrast: the cost of any modern mmo vs $6 per hour (Compuserve, GEnie, et. al.)
Point of comparison is interesting when you bring that into play. By the time most millennials were using the internet, everything was 'free' under their flat $15/month fee. Hourly charges or even charges of any kind for content had faded away. So previous generations have those hourly fees as their point of comparison, whereas the majority of the most recent generation has FREE as their point of comparison.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Haven't subbed to anything at all in 4 or 5 years. Plenty of b2p or f2p games out there that are just as fun and entertaining to play as any sub game. Just my opinion of coarse.
Well if its not much then give each of us 50 cents a day and see how that adds up.....You can break it down to seconds and it will be even cheaper......Then after a couple of years it hits you that youve spent 400-500 dollars on something that wasnt all that great and there are just as good free alternatives, especially if youre patient.
If you're going to comment and be taken seriously... you have to start offering up something... serious. Stop projecting your particular bias based on your economic point of view. Use likely situations to illustrate your "point" as opposed to knee-jerk fantasy quips like "give us each 50 cents a day." That makes no sense at all.
Thanks all for the insightful answers. I made a mistake when posting by choosing the "Question" option. Oops.
The reason I asked was that instead of having a slightly fluid set number of players to draw from, millions of players now play tens to hundreds of games. Each game gets to count those accounts, whether they pay anything or not. 10 games can say "We have 30 Million players." and none of them would be lying.
Is this a good "measure" of what is successful? I guess that depends on how one defines "success."
Well that is the funny part about posting numbers,there is no legit way to talk numbers without subscriptions.
If you are not willing to pay 50 cents a day,then to me that says the game is not that good.You cannot tell me anywhere you will get a cheaper form of entertainment.
However yes,you should be playing what game is fun for you,cost should not be a factor as i said 50 cents /day is not much at all.
Thanks all for the insightful answers. I made a mistake when posting by choosing the "Question" option. Oops.
The reason I asked was that instead of having a slightly fluid set number of players to draw from, millions of players now play tens to hundreds of games. Each game gets to count those accounts, whether they pay anything or not. 10 games can say "We have 30 Million players." and none of them would be lying.
Is this a good "measure" of what is successful? I guess that depends on how one defines "success."
Well that is the funny part about posting numbers,there is no legit way to talk numbers without subscriptions.
If you are not willing to pay 50 cents a day,then to me that says the game is not that good.You cannot tell me anywhere you will get a cheaper form of entertainment.
However yes,you should be playing what game is fun for you,cost should not be a factor as i said 50 cents /day is not much at all.
Techinically is $15/£8.99/12.99 euros a month. No point in breaking it down to how much it is per day. Also one thing you forget is that when MMORPGs were P2P they required you to buy the box. So when I played WoW, I paid $60 for the first month and then $15 each month after that. In 3 months I paid like $90. THat's quite a lot of money considering games in other genres cost you $60 only. Also I have spent so much $ on WoW and now I can't even log into the game despite probably paying over $300-400 for the game over the years.
So let's not try to downplay how much more expensive MMORPGs used to be. Also don't compare to other forms of entertainment like cinema etc. You should compare it to other computer games, and MMORPGs clearly were way more expensive in comparison.
Also it's not true that you can't get cheaper entertainment elsewhere. You can play a game like DOTA2 and never spend a single cent on it! I have a lot of hours clocked up on that game and I have barely spent like £15 on it and that was for lolz. Never had to pay anything if I didn't want to.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Answers
If you are not willing to pay 50 cents a day,then to me that says the game is not that good.You cannot tell me anywhere you will get a cheaper form of entertainment.
However yes,you should be playing what game is fun for you,cost should not be a factor as i said 50 cents /day is not much at all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
We really need more subscription based games again or at least games where even if it's free to play there isn't any stupid shit on the Store or anything.
Any cosmetic items that make the characters look cool or maybe mounts n such are OK but once you start adding items that others can pay REAL $$ for to gain even the smallest advantage over people who don't have fatty wallets to throw down hundreds of $$'s n such then its just blah and not fair...
I feel like Subscription is the best thing for a balanced game. The developer / producer is able to continue creating content (expansions) but at the same time keep the game safe and not have to add any special items, gear, equipment etc.. to a Shop or Store for real life currency to keep the game afloat.
It's the truth but look at World of Warcraft.. granted they've had a head start from the very beginning an they're a major company / business but still the game is going pretty good. I feel like WoW just does it right an so if another game could come out and compete with it then they shouldn't have any problems keeping afloat as well.
Where as all these other F2P games come out and are hyped so high like OMG THIS GAME IS GONNA BE AWESOME AND AMAZING!!
TERA
RIFT
Lord of The Rings
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Age of Conan
AION
I'm not trying to say these games are shitty or bad etc.. Just saying a lot of these games did something wrong somewhere and because of that they're no longer top dog.
the topic on F2P vs Sub based is very hard because like with everything else there are the positives and negatives and of course everyone has their own ideas / opinions which they are entitled to.
I personally feel like if a game is going to be FREE to PLAY then that's what it should be. Not FREE to Play but if you choose to pay you get X Items or X Weapons/Gear or anything that can give you a fighting advantage over players who wish NOT to pay or can't because not everyone can.
idk.. from my perspective because I'm so use to playing subscription based games.. (ya know before F2P exsisted lol) and everything being equal I feel like it should be the same with any MMO doesn't matter if it's free to play or subscription.
I can understand free to play games need a way to make their money so they can continue running the servers etc.. but that's why you got cosmetic items or mounts/gliders (ArcheAge) or do like what Path of Exile is doing where you can get cool fire or lightning effects on ur weapons or footsteps n such like there are tons of ways to sell things that are aesthetically pleasing and people WILL pay for it.
Anyways that's my rant.. Thanks for reading if you did.
Interesting.
I played EQ2 for 10 years paying most of the time 29.95 for all access even when I was working on my own game. Along came FTP and with it came this new fad of railroading/P2W and instant max level. The last 2 expansions were just short of shit because they required you as a player to go in one direction only. I felt the game direction was just not in my interest anymore.
I uninstalled the game.
If the game had continued in direction they had taken back a Kurnak Expansion I probably still be paying 14.95 a month for the thing.
What I am getting at is FTP and all the instant I win( max level in a day) or P2W has gotten so old I lost complete interest in the genre as a whole.
Also - The RPG or MMORPG gone now. It has lost its meaning and purpose.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
VG
What games do with cash shops these days is absolutely disgusting, especially those that use gambling boxes. At the very least gambling boxes should classify the game as an online casino and tax them 25% of their earnings accordingly.
As the years went by though, just about every AAA MMO was the same themepark, with quest-hub driven gameplay. There was hardly any alternative pathways to level up. It really wasn't until 2010-11 when that started to change, but by that time, every MMO was going F2P already, and it was too late for the genre to keep all the players it lost to mobas.
It also wasn't until around 2012 when MMOs started to diverge from the "wow clones", and we started getting action combat (gw2, teso, tsw, tera, etc) and event based mmos (rift, gw2) instead of quests.
The last recent AAA MMO to have a subscription is FFXIV, so that's where all the subscription refugees flocked to if they didn't want to play WoW still.
Gone are the days of pure subscription models with no cash shops.
edit: As someone said previously, people pay out of habit, without truly considering if it's really worth it.
Considering the development costs of game, the developers etc, never crosses my mind. IF they offer up a free to play game, then they must have some way of supporting themselves. I know some people feel like they are in some way saying; "Thank you" for developing the game, but if a developer/publisher/whoever puts a free product out there without a plan for feeding him/herself then that is their poor decision and has no baring on my life.
I find I tend to enjoy subscription games a lot more. There are certain elements that have popped up over the years in gaming that tend to make F2P a squalid mess of hackers, bad players...and well lets just leave it at that. When you have to register and pay for a game, in my opinion, you tend to cut down on this a bit. WoW being the exception here, they were known to have quite the terrible community depending on which server you played on. However, overall I feel like a monthly fee is a far better business model.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I can only tell how things worked out for me.
I may have tried a dozen MMORPGs at most. That's not much regarding the available games. Of those MMORPGs I tried, only 3 qualify as main games (i.e. which I played for more than 6 months). Since I played just 1 MMORPG at a time there were no issues with paying a subscription. The games had their own features (i.e. setting, open world, build variety, complex dungeons) which attracted me to the games.
How are things now?
My main MMORPG made the transition to a f2p/b2p model. You can unlock content by buying once or go the traditional subscription scheme as well. Eventually I canceled my subscription, bought the available content at that time. You could say that I maybe overspent a little for a short period of time (up to 6 months). But I still play the game today and if you compare the costs over several years it is far less than with a traditional subscription.
With the spreading of f2p I haven't tried more MMORPGs than before. On the contrary. Back then I commited lots of time to MMORPGs. Today I frequently go back to offline games more and more. The best feature of offline games is that the devs can't ruin the fun with time. ,-)
Point of comparison is interesting when you bring that into play. By the time most millennials were using the internet, everything was 'free' under their flat $15/month fee. Hourly charges or even charges of any kind for content had faded away. So previous generations have those hourly fees as their point of comparison, whereas the majority of the most recent generation has FREE as their point of comparison.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So let's not try to downplay how much more expensive MMORPGs used to be. Also don't compare to other forms of entertainment like cinema etc. You should compare it to other computer games, and MMORPGs clearly were way more expensive in comparison.
Also it's not true that you can't get cheaper entertainment elsewhere. You can play a game like DOTA2 and never spend a single cent on it! I have a lot of hours clocked up on that game and I have barely spent like £15 on it and that was for lolz. Never had to pay anything if I didn't want to.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.