Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
Really? Cause rift is much better than the majority of mmos out there.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Please show me one R2game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades.
Stop making up purposefully-exaggerated straw examples that don't exist. Any smart company makes the P2W more subtle than that, and even R2Games is no exception.
Also, they don't have to follow it exactly. Trion leaves out a few of the things from R2's business model but has more than enough of the others (The cash shop upgrading boosters being one of the biggest examples). Trion is slightly more subtle about it than R2 but had more than enough of it to know what was coming to them (which was what anyone who follows that model expects. Big money at the cost of the game's player base and lifespan. Archeage is going to server merges now despite its relatively young life for a reason, you know).
You can not ignore a solid argument by claiming it is strawman fallacy because it is not.
And by upgrade increase you mean regrade right? Because unlike korean version of game i have not found any item that increase chance to upgrade gears to +1 or +2 or so on. By standard definition of pay2win in NA, AA is pay2win, hell i have even read that selling cosmetic items like mount and pets is pay2win because buyers then can sell them in game for gold and buy gears with gold, example : WoW. just go ahead and read in this very forums where people claim WoW to be a pay2win game.
AA population is going down because of people like you living with your prejudice, trying to see pay2win from your own point of view and spreading hate all over internet. And frankly in NA, there is nothing Trion could do about it. Even if they removed cash shop and just had f2p and subscription, people would claim it to be pay2win since subscribers get more privilege than f2p. But there is nothing can be done about it in NA, since these days you guys are teaching people that those who work harder are not better than those who don't and everyone should have access to everything without spending anything.
I believe AA has pay2win elements but it's their piss poor handling of the game that wont have me going back.
I can also make an argument that by pulling out my wallet and buying 1000 regrade scrolls that I will eventually be able to get the best gear in the game faster than someone who doesnt pay.
The population of AA isn't down just because of the "prejudice" people are tying to find with pay2win. It's due to either;
A) Game isnt their cup of tea Something new and shiny came out that grabbed their attention C) Game didn't live up to the hype D) People were getting fed up with Trion's mishandling of cheaters and bots E) Regular population stabilizing F) Pay2Win mechanics
Its a combo of all off the above but you have to start wondering if maybe Trion seriously didn't screw the pooch somewhere if they already have to merge servers.
As far as I am concerned Trion has made their bed and now they get to lie in it.
There are a lot of people who are buying regrade scrolls and failing over and over and getting their gear downgraded(divine->celestial most of the time) instead of upgraded, i play in ollo and i see that every few minutes, crying from people cursing "RNG GODS" for bad luck on regrading RNG. Yes technically you can go ahead and buy millions of regrade scrolls and get millions of upgraded items but let's see if you try it knowing the RNG will bite your ass 90% of the time.
For the points you are trying to make : -
A,B,C - answer to all of these is that sandbox people thought AA was going to be their savior, they believed AA would be a sandbox game with subscription without cashshop and only with a free trial instead of a pure f2p with optional subscription, they did not do any research regarding how the game is and how it is doing in korea, it is their idiocy that bit them in their ass, Trion never said they were going to save sandbox with AA, they never said they were going to go a subscription model without cashshop, it is the sandbox crowd's fault for hyping up the game and then spending shit load of money to buy their way into alpha test. I mean what kind of idiot pays for testing a game? testers should be the one getting paid.
D - mishandling of bots and cheaters, i am pretty sure i answered this in many other posts before. reading comprehension is lacking on this point.
E- no idea what you mean but i personally would have preferred one megaserver with non instanced housing and farming areas. it is possible to do so but it seems Trion is not keen on trying it since then housing and farms will become more rare and crying from entitled people will increase tenfold.
F- stupid prejudice, nothing more to say.
I disagree regarding the way you look at this but i totally agree that above were the reason why many people left, you can assume they are valid reason, i will look at them as misguided prejudice.
You can continue to live with your misguided prejudice and hatred toward Trion, as unhealthy as it may, more power to you. As for me, i will discourage people to buy their way into alpha or beta testing, whether it is trion or any other company.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
Because it sets an industry standard in an industry they care about? You can't argue this is not true, the dramatic increase in the price of founder's packs, pre-orders, etc is very, very obvious. People are just as free to express their disgust in this practice as companies are to engage in it, so it is pretty hypocritical to suggest that we need to just leave them be - especially when their profits are driven DIRECTLY by people like us, whereas our opinions don't rely on them at all.
Expressing an opinion is one thing - however this will be a F2P game.
why just not wait and you know play without spending any cash upfront?
it's absolutely laughable to express "disgust" over this.
If they were charging $150 per month to play this you might have a point.
but the founder pack prices are in line with current industry prices so again, your point is ?
The point is that it is cancer, and its degrading the genre. Also, your trion shilling over the past year or so hasnt gone unnoticed.
The point is that DMKano is being factual and you are being emotional, funny as you accuse him of shilling with him being a lot more reasonable then you are. Also, the word cancer in this context is even more absurd then the word disgust.
It boils down to an offer that some people like and some people don't. It is an offer not out of line with other offers and it takes place in a genre that is evolving, not some stagnant crap like the FPS genre is. Evolving does not mean degrading or dumbing down, it means changing, some people like it and some don't but that is always the case. The motivation is ALWAYS money, even back in the day, everything took forever so you would stay subbed forever. The holy grind was only there to get your money, we all know this right? That it wasn't about achievement and ' working for your reward' ?
Nothing is being destroyed, there is no bastion of righteousness to defend, there never were a king and a queen to be loyal to, you are fighting windmills none of them a giant.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I arrived here by googling if anyone else thought the prices were a 'bit much' for the founder packs and I can say this thread in general (to me at least) took an extremely unfortunate tone. Since when did a forum meant for discussion so easily boil down to "boohoohoo, you are wrong" or constant driving home about ignoring it or not buying it? Obviously it will end up being 'to buy or not to buy' but why not discuss the merit of the company's decision or the merit of the game before just belittling the commentary into submission?
I was on the fence about being a founder but after thinking for a bit I knew I'd not get the value I'd want from the pack and will wait on the game, especially with Trion's record of late; if it didn't include the currency and was $20+ I would of considered it. I can say of folks so quick to demonize or berate people for voicing an opinion on a company's decision is a darn shame but it seems to be commonplace. I'll now just reminisce about the good ol' days and just wait to see what this game becomes, while I infinitely hope Lost Ark gets ported (sooner).
I arrived here by googling if anyone else thought the prices were a 'bit much' for the founder packs and I can say this thread in general (to me at least) took an extremely unfortunate tone. Since when did a forum meant for discussion so easily boil down to "boohoohoo, you are wrong" or constant driving home about ignoring it or not buying it? Obviously it will end up being 'to buy or not to buy' but why not discuss the merit of the company's decision or the merit of the game before just belittling the commentary into submission?
I was on the fence about being a founder but after thinking for a bit I knew I'd not get the value I'd want from the pack and will wait on the game, especially with Trion's record of late; if it didn't include the currency and was $20+ I would of considered it. I can say of folks so quick to demonize or berate people for voicing an opinion on a company's decision is a darn shame but it seems to be commonplace. I'll now just reminisce about the good ol' days and just wait to see what this game becomes, while I infinitely hope Lost Ark gets ported (sooner).
I think it had more to do with the OP's choice of words than anything else. The thread became about whether "rip-off" or "scam" were appropriate.
I agree with you and many others that it's grossly over-priced and part of a recent trend to monetize F2P games up front based on some gamers' desire to be there first. It's not just Trion, SOE did it as well with Landmark and it has become commonplace on Steam with "early access." Although on Steam we're usually talking about $20 or $30 for EA.
Even if you look just at Trion, they could get away with it in the case of Archage because that game had had a lot of hype in the West for years and there were many who were quite happy to pay for early access while they localized it. But WTF is this $150 for alpha shit with Devilian, a run of the mill offering? I think they're grossly overestimating fan interest.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This is all about perceived value. If you think you are going to get your money's worth out of your entertainment budget, then this is for you. Go for it. You could even be pleasantly surprised. Of course this is also from a company who very recently offered a similar experience which did a complete 180 after the game released and the experience people bought into no longer existed. Classic bait-n-switch.
At one time, I'd have given Trion money ahead of time...Actually, I did with Storm Legion. While I never felt burned by Trion at the time, SL didn't deliver for me, but I didn't think any less of the company in terms of their motivation. But now, I think Trion needs to prove they are the same company that released Rift before I give them any money "on faith".
AA, during Beta, was the best MMO experience I had in the last 10 years. It quickly turned to **** when it officially launched with the worst pay to win scheme I've ever seen.
Devilian isn't going to be any different. It will be fun during beta, but once the game launches, prepare to not being able to progress or find any good items without having to purchase countless stacks of "loot bonus potions" etc.
Trion proved that they are 100% in it for the money. No love for the game.
You are totally free not to purchase a founders pack since no one is forcing you to do so (as was the case with ArcheAge). Every developer does this with preorders, founders packs, starter packs, ect. this is nothing new in the industry. Wait until launch if you don't want to pay, because surprise it is that easy.
Noone here is arguing that fact. OP is just trying to warn the dumber people of this planet (Which is most of the planet.) not to fall for a painfully obvious scam. It's a public service, like telling your grandmother that it isn't really a deposed Nigerian prince asking for money to retrieve his fortune.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
You can not ignore a solid argument by claiming it is strawman fallacy because it is not.
And by upgrade increase you mean regrade right? Because unlike korean version of game i have not found any item that increase chance to upgrade gears to +1 or +2 or so on. By standard definition of pay2win in NA, AA is pay2win, hell i have even read that selling cosmetic items like mount and pets is pay2win because buyers then can sell them in game for gold and buy gears with gold, example : WoW. just go ahead and read in this very forums where people claim WoW to be a pay2win game.
AA population is going down because of people like you living with your prejudice, trying to see pay2win from your own point of view and spreading hate all over internet. And frankly in NA, there is nothing Trion could do about it. Even if they removed cash shop and just had f2p and subscription, people would claim it to be pay2win since subscribers get more privilege than f2p. But there is nothing can be done about it in NA, since these days you guys are teaching people that those who work harder are not better than those who don't and everyone should have access to everything without spending anything.
I believe AA has pay2win elements but it's their piss poor handling of the game that wont have me going back.
I can also make an argument that by pulling out my wallet and buying 1000 regrade scrolls that I will eventually be able to get the best gear in the game faster than someone who doesnt pay.
The population of AA isn't down just because of the "prejudice" people are tying to find with pay2win. It's due to either;
A) Game isnt their cup of tea Something new and shiny came out that grabbed their attention C) Game didn't live up to the hype D) People were getting fed up with Trion's mishandling of cheaters and bots E) Regular population stabilizing F) Pay2Win mechanics
Its a combo of all off the above but you have to start wondering if maybe Trion seriously didn't screw the pooch somewhere if they already have to merge servers.
As far as I am concerned Trion has made their bed and now they get to lie in it.
There are a lot of people who are buying regrade scrolls and failing over and over and getting their gear downgraded(divine->celestial most of the time) instead of upgraded, i play in ollo and i see that every few minutes, crying from people cursing "RNG GODS" for bad luck on regrading RNG. Yes technically you can go ahead and buy millions of regrade scrolls and get millions of upgraded items but let's see if you try it knowing the RNG will bite your ass 90% of the time.
For the points you are trying to make : -
A,B,C - answer to all of these is that sandbox people thought AA was going to be their savior, they believed AA would be a sandbox game with subscription without cashshop and only with a free trial instead of a pure f2p with optional subscription, they did not do any research regarding how the game is and how it is doing in korea, it is their idiocy that bit them in their ass, Trion never said they were going to save sandbox with AA, they never said they were going to go a subscription model without cashshop, it is the sandbox crowd's fault for hyping up the game and then spending shit load of money to buy their way into alpha test. I mean what kind of idiot pays for testing a game? testers should be the one getting paid.
D - mishandling of bots and cheaters, i am pretty sure i answered this in many other posts before. reading comprehension is lacking on this point.
E- no idea what you mean but i personally would have preferred one megaserver with non instanced housing and farming areas. it is possible to do so but it seems Trion is not keen on trying it since then housing and farms will become more rare and crying from entitled people will increase tenfold.
F- stupid prejudice, nothing more to say.
I disagree regarding the way you look at this but i totally agree that above were the reason why many people left, you can assume they are valid reason, i will look at them as misguided prejudice.
You can continue to live with your misguided prejudice and hatred toward Trion, as unhealthy as it may, more power to you. As for me, i will discourage people to buy their way into alpha or beta testing, whether it is trion or any other company.
I will agree that some probably agreed that AA would be the saving grace of the sandbox mmo and they probably did not do their research. To say that all people were expecting it would be talking out of your butt :P Trion never said they were going to save the sandbox with AA or that there would be no cashshop but they did say they would try to limit how badly the cashshop would be and on that point in my opinion they have failed.
Point D still stands that they mishandled bots and cheaters. On their faq it says they would be integrating directly with glyph which has some awesome detection built in and while they did catch many, handing out 1 day bans isn't exactly a punishment.
What I mean by E is every MMO population will plummet when the new and shiny wears off and peoples free month goes away, that's population balancing. A megaserver would have been nice so people wouldn't be screwed out of their land when they server merge.
Feel free to call point F whatever you want but that's peoples opinions. Also when you immediately assume that I am prejudiced and have hatred towards Trion or anyone else who posts in a negative way about them then your arguments hold less weight since all you do is insult them. Perhaps your hatred towards others peoples opinions needs to be checked as that cant be healthy for you
Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
You don't know what pay2win is, you never played a pay2win game in your life. If you did you would not come out here and say Trion's games are pay2win. Playing Rift for nearly 3 years, playing AA too, never seen anything in their cash shop that would outright make them pay2win. If you want to complain about quality of AA then go ahead and do so but don't claim something that it is not.
I have played pay2win game, when you find that best gears can only be found in cash shop and 2nd best rating gears that can be found from end game boss provides 1000 less stats than the cash shop gear, come back and talk about pay2win.
You're correct as far as AA goes. That game isn't pay to win. It's pay to lose. As in pay to lose all your land in the server mergers.
While I'm annoyed at the people who spent time or even worse real money acquiring land from obvious hackers, they still don't deserve to get screwed over this much. Meanwhile, I've learned a lot by keeping an eye on Trion's handling of AA. Enough to stay far away from anything Trion does in the future. They have zero respect for their players.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
You don't know what pay2win is, you never played a pay2win game in your life. If you did you would not come out here and say Trion's games are pay2win. Playing Rift for nearly 3 years, playing AA too, never seen anything in their cash shop that would outright make them pay2win. If you want to complain about quality of AA then go ahead and do so but don't claim something that it is not.
I have played pay2win game, when you find that best gears can only be found in cash shop and 2nd best rating gears that can be found from end game boss provides 1000 less stats than the cash shop gear, come back and talk about pay2win.
You're correct as far as AA goes. That game isn't pay to win. It's pay to lose. As in pay to lose all your land in the server mergers.
While I'm annoyed at the people who spent time or even worse real money acquiring land from obvious hackers, they still don't deserve to get screwed over this much. Meanwhile, I've learned a lot by keeping an eye on Trion's handling of AA. Enough to stay far away from anything Trion does in the future. They have zero respect for their players.
AA is Pay to go faster, whether that is P2W to someone is subjective. You can get decent gear by just grinding and running dungeons as well.
Nobody actually proposes a solution to this land problem though. Don't merge. Really? That's a solution? Only uproot one server and plop them into another. (that would go over well) Compensate people, they are. Compensate the rich land barons more than the normal players who don't exploit multiple accounts, is that fair? what is the solution?
Anyone with 20 plots of land on a dead server knew what they were risking and they made tons of profit on that land while they owned it. Player entitlement is huge in all games, but AA takes the cake. Maybe it's because it's an expensive game with either time or money, who knows.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
You don't know what pay2win is, you never played a pay2win game in your life. If you did you would not come out here and say Trion's games are pay2win. Playing Rift for nearly 3 years, playing AA too, never seen anything in their cash shop that would outright make them pay2win. If you want to complain about quality of AA then go ahead and do so but don't claim something that it is not.
I have played pay2win game, when you find that best gears can only be found in cash shop and 2nd best rating gears that can be found from end game boss provides 1000 less stats than the cash shop gear, come back and talk about pay2win.
You're correct as far as AA goes. That game isn't pay to win. It's pay to lose. As in pay to lose all your land in the server mergers.
While I'm annoyed at the people who spent time or even worse real money acquiring land from obvious hackers, they still don't deserve to get screwed over this much. Meanwhile, I've learned a lot by keeping an eye on Trion's handling of AA. Enough to stay far away from anything Trion does in the future. They have zero respect for their players.
AA is Pay to go faster, whether that is P2W to someone is subjective. You can get decent gear by just grinding and running dungeons as well.
Nobody actually proposes a solution to this land problem though. Don't merge. Really? That's a solution? Only uproot one server and plop them into another. (that would go over well) Compensate people, they are. Compensate the rich land barons more than the normal players who don't exploit multiple accounts, is that fair? what is the solution?
Anyone with 20 plots of land on a dead server knew what they were risking and they made tons of profit on that land while they owned it. Player entitlement is huge in all games, but AA takes the cake. Maybe it's because it's an expensive game with either time or money, who knows.
The problem extends far beyond the server mergers. It's how land hackers were permitted to operate, it's how lucky players who beat the queues were permitted to grab up vast tracts of land and hog it all. It's the refusal to even acknowledge those hackers for the most part.
Finally, it's the failure to implement transfers instead for players who don't prefer quiet servers.
The playerbase is not completely innocent either, though. Many were on the forum vocally supporting both the land hogging and encouraging others to suck it up and buy from land hackers, ignoring shady behavior, many will now suffer it at Trion's hands (and I've no doubt the land hackers will make a return as well).
I've also no doubt this won't be the last merge. Another one incoming before six months is gone would be my suspicion, leaving the safe, smug players to mourn as well as the population of the two headstart servers who were thrown to the wolves at the last minute. Also a very shady move.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Trion does make you pay for earring slots in Rift. I'm not too sure if the stats on the earrings are too vital, but if they are it most certainly is a pay to win mechanic.
Devilian is a korean mmo that is already shutting down in its own region... I would certainly try it when it comes to NA but why someone would buy founders on DOA game is beyond me.
Trion does make you pay for earring slots in Rift. I'm not too sure if the stats on the earrings are too vital, but if they are it most certainly is a pay to win mechanic.
They don't make you pay for earring slot, the truth is that yes you can buy ear slot for like the cheap pack and up for all your char with real life money. But is not needed right away as if people don't have the money to get the ear slot, then they can just farm it in game with the in game system with out rex. And yes does take longer then buying it 3 week for a player that caps there marks each week or less, 6 to 8 weeks for a player that have not much time at the end they'll end up having it if they play the game.
But you can't forget what p2w in the first is when ears are not, is like telling people gw2 is pay to win that you can play the base game for free but don't have the money to buy there expansion, but none is that a pay to win.
But anyhow p2w is when you buy more power then the next player that makes the one that don't buy power in no way to catch up to that have more power with in reasonable means.
What was that old saying again? Oh yeah, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fell for it once already with AA and I am not going to do that again.
Trion does make you pay for earring slots in Rift. I'm not too sure if the stats on the earrings are too vital, but if they are it most certainly is a pay to win mechanic.
They don't make you pay for earring slot, the truth is that yes you can buy ear slot for like the cheap pack and up for all your char with real life money. But is not needed right away as if people don't have the money to get the ear slot, then they can just farm it in game with the in game system with out rex. And yes does take longer then buying it 3 week for a player that caps there marks each week or less, 6 to 8 weeks for a player that have not much time at the end they'll end up having it if they play the game.
But you can't forget what p2w in the first is when ears are not, is like telling people gw2 is pay to win that you can play the base game for free but don't have the money to buy there expansion, but none is that a pay to win.
But anyhow p2w is when you buy more power then the next player that makes the one that don't buy power in no way to catch up to that have more power with in reasonable means.
Selling a gear slot unlock is a lot different than selling content. What about xpac exclusive weapon unlocks? When their last xpac released you couldn't get a mount that would work on both land and underwater without spending $150 for the top tier pack. They have been pushing the limits of good taste in their monetization for a while with Rift. Very few major titles restrict like that and Rift didn't used to.
Pay to win is an idiotic trolling slogan that is subjectively applied however it works best for the poster. That doesn't really excuse how Trion changed how they're selling Rift. They're up front about it and "don't like it don't buy it" applies. It still has soured me to the game. Other games have a lot friendlier pricing and approach to selling their game than Trion does with Rift and offer as much or more. GW2, ESO, LotRO, Tera, and TSW all do it better.
About the underwater mount I would agree with you, if they put more places to make a underwater mount more useful then just moving faster why leveling. But there alot stuff in rift I don't like and do like as other mmo same as well that you listed. For me as I took the pros and cons but end up with rift until the next mmo comes that I like more.
But Pricing of the other mmo can get out of hand, buy it or or grind it I know same with rift but I feel like getting more for free in content for me thats it's a good thing, but anyhow the marking pass month in rift been like someone new doing it feels like to me, as I can get pass it but there not making some people happy on the marking side how they put this things out and not thinking that wrong way to do it.
Looks to me like they are offering fairly standard prepurchase packs. I don't particularly like that alpha access is exclusive to the $150 pack, but the $50 pack looks reasonable. Its basically the same price as a b2p game.
I am more concerned about how the game will be monetized outside of the packs, f2p games tend to be set up so that at some point you have to start paying to be competitive, and the more you pay the bigger the advantage.
In terms of whether this is a rip off though, its on a completely different level to upcoming games that are selling space ships/houses or charging subs before the game is even in beta. Seems very tame compared to what I am seeing certain other small companies trying to pull.
Looks to me like they are offering fairly standard prepurchase packs. I don't particularly like that alpha access is exclusive to the $150 pack, but the $50 pack looks reasonable. Its basically the same price as a b2p game.
I am more concerned about how the game will be monetized outside of the packs, f2p games tend to be set up so that at some point you have to start paying to be competitive, and the more you pay the bigger the advantage.
In terms of whether this is a rip off though, its on a completely different level to upcoming games that are selling space ships/houses or charging subs before the game is even in beta. Seems very tame compared to what I am seeing certain other small companies trying to pull.
Quoted for truth. There are companies out there selling stuff for THOUSANDS of dollars for games that haven't even been build yet (Star Citizen) or for games that are undergoing massive changes all the time (Shroud of the Avatar). This may be the shittiest game ever but at least there is an actual game to spend money on. This contrary to, say, the much supported Star Citizen which everyone and their dog seem to 'invest in,' there you really do not have a clue what you are spending money on.... Horrible double standard over here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Devilian will be another Archeage. Trion proved that they can't westernize another Asian game by again have ridiculous founders packs that match the same as ArcheAge. Lets see how many they can fool this time around.
Like the next person, I dislike feeling ripped off. Every time I see a newly launched game with a >$200 founder pack, it turns me against the game. Every time I see fail states that can be overcome by cash shop items or gambling boxes, it turns me against the game.
Don;t get me wrong, in the games I like, I would be incredibly surprised if I did not spend considerably more than the average... but I dislike feeling manipulated. I am happy to spend money on the entertainment I consume, but I am not happy if the method of extracting that cash feels... well I said it, manipulative.
My current way of handling this... when I see that a game is selling a $500 starter pack, I walk away. When I see that a game intends to sell gambling packs, I walk away. It has made the MMOs I now choose to stick with far more rewarding as a result.
Devilian is a korean mmo that is already shutting down in its own region... I would certainly try it when it comes to NA but why someone would buy founders on DOA game is beyond me.
I'm not buying into that. I already gave at ArcheAge and won't do it again.
Shutting down due to publisher getting out of all PC gaming and switching to mobile only. Bluehole Ginno are looking for a new publisher in Korea.
The shutdown is temporary.
Also Devilian is launching in China as well where they showed the 5th class - as the game is in active development.
That raises as many questions as it asnwers as to why? I don't see Blizzard trying to drop PC games for Mobile apps. However, Funcom tried to change their format...Daybreak Games also announced a similar change in direction.
Devilian is a korean mmo that is already shutting down in its own region... I would certainly try it when it comes to NA but why someone would buy founders on DOA game is beyond me.
I'm not buying into that. I already gave at ArcheAge and won't do it again.
Shutting down due to publisher getting out of all PC gaming and switching to mobile only. Bluehole Ginno are looking for a new publisher in Korea.
The shutdown is temporary.
Also Devilian is launching in China as well where they showed the 5th class - as the game is in active development.
That raises as many questions as it asnwers as to why? I don't see Blizzard trying to drop PC games for Mobile apps. However, Funcom tried to change their format...Daybreak Games also announced a similar change in direction.
Can't forget blizzard is not a need of money if there pc market was doing bad for them they'll do it too, money drives what company does all company do. But who knows that company may see is just cheaper to run moblie games over mmo type games as not the same cost rate to keep it running.
Comments
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
For the points you are trying to make : -
A,B,C - answer to all of these is that sandbox people thought AA was going to be their savior, they believed AA would be a sandbox game with subscription without cashshop and only with a free trial instead of a pure f2p with optional subscription, they did not do any research regarding how the game is and how it is doing in korea, it is their idiocy that bit them in their ass, Trion never said they were going to save sandbox with AA, they never said they were going to go a subscription model without cashshop, it is the sandbox crowd's fault for hyping up the game and then spending shit load of money to buy their way into alpha test. I mean what kind of idiot pays for testing a game? testers should be the one getting paid.
D - mishandling of bots and cheaters, i am pretty sure i answered this in many other posts before. reading comprehension is lacking on this point.
E- no idea what you mean but i personally would have preferred one megaserver with non instanced housing and farming areas. it is possible to do so but it seems Trion is not keen on trying it since then housing and farms will become more rare and crying from entitled people will increase tenfold.
F- stupid prejudice, nothing more to say.
I disagree regarding the way you look at this but i totally agree that above were the reason why many people left, you can assume they are valid reason, i will look at them as misguided prejudice.
You can continue to live with your misguided prejudice and hatred toward Trion, as unhealthy as it may, more power to you. As for me, i will discourage people to buy their way into alpha or beta testing, whether it is trion or any other company.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It boils down to an offer that some people like and some people don't. It is an offer not out of line with other offers and it takes place in a genre that is evolving, not some stagnant crap like the FPS genre is. Evolving does not mean degrading or dumbing down, it means changing, some people like it and some don't but that is always the case. The motivation is ALWAYS money, even back in the day, everything took forever so you would stay subbed forever. The holy grind was only there to get your money, we all know this right? That it wasn't about achievement and ' working for your reward' ?
Nothing is being destroyed, there is no bastion of righteousness to defend, there never were a king and a queen to be loyal to, you are fighting windmills none of them a giant.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I was on the fence about being a founder but after thinking for a bit I knew I'd not get the value I'd want from the pack and will wait on the game, especially with Trion's record of late; if it didn't include the currency and was $20+ I would of considered it. I can say of folks so quick to demonize or berate people for voicing an opinion on a company's decision is a darn shame but it seems to be commonplace. I'll now just reminisce about the good ol' days and just wait to see what this game becomes, while I infinitely hope Lost Ark gets ported (sooner).
I think it had more to do with the OP's choice of words than anything else. The thread became about whether "rip-off" or "scam" were appropriate.
I agree with you and many others that it's grossly over-priced and part of a recent trend to monetize F2P games up front based on some gamers' desire to be there first. It's not just Trion, SOE did it as well with Landmark and it has become commonplace on Steam with "early access." Although on Steam we're usually talking about $20 or $30 for EA.
Even if you look just at Trion, they could get away with it in the case of Archage because that game had had a lot of hype in the West for years and there were many who were quite happy to pay for early access while they localized it. But WTF is this $150 for alpha shit with Devilian, a run of the mill offering? I think they're grossly overestimating fan interest.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
At one time, I'd have given Trion money ahead of time...Actually, I did with Storm Legion. While I never felt burned by Trion at the time, SL didn't deliver for me, but I didn't think any less of the company in terms of their motivation. But now, I think Trion needs to prove they are the same company that released Rift before I give them any money "on faith".
Devilian isn't going to be any different. It will be fun during beta, but once the game launches, prepare to not being able to progress or find any good items without having to purchase countless stacks of "loot bonus potions" etc.
Trion proved that they are 100% in it for the money. No love for the game.
Business as usual...
Try On.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
While I'm annoyed at the people who spent time or even worse real money acquiring land from obvious hackers, they still don't deserve to get screwed over this much. Meanwhile, I've learned a lot by keeping an eye on Trion's handling of AA. Enough to stay far away from anything Trion does in the future. They have zero respect for their players.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
AA is Pay to go faster, whether that is P2W to someone is subjective. You can get decent gear by just grinding and running dungeons as well.
Nobody actually proposes a solution to this land problem though. Don't merge. Really? That's a solution? Only uproot one server and plop them into another. (that would go over well) Compensate people, they are. Compensate the rich land barons more than the normal players who don't exploit multiple accounts, is that fair? what is the solution?
Anyone with 20 plots of land on a dead server knew what they were risking and they made tons of profit on that land while they owned it. Player entitlement is huge in all games, but AA takes the cake. Maybe it's because it's an expensive game with either time or money, who knows.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Finally, it's the failure to implement transfers instead for players who don't prefer quiet servers.
The playerbase is not completely innocent either, though. Many were on the forum vocally supporting both the land hogging and encouraging others to suck it up and buy from land hackers, ignoring shady behavior, many will now suffer it at Trion's hands (and I've no doubt the land hackers will make a return as well).
I've also no doubt this won't be the last merge. Another one incoming before six months is gone would be my suspicion, leaving the safe, smug players to mourn as well as the population of the two headstart servers who were thrown to the wolves at the last minute. Also a very shady move.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Here's a link: http://massivelyop.com/2015/08/18/devilians-south-korea-server-is-shutting-down/
I'm not buying into that. I already gave at ArcheAge and won't do it again.
But you can't forget what p2w in the first is when ears are not, is like telling people gw2 is pay to win that you can play the base game for free but don't have the money to buy there expansion, but none is that a pay to win.
But anyhow p2w is when you buy more power then the next player that makes the one that don't buy power in no way to catch up to that have more power with in reasonable means.
But Pricing of the other mmo can get out of hand, buy it or or grind it I know same with rift but I feel like getting more for free in content for me thats it's a good thing, but anyhow the marking pass month in rift been like someone new doing it feels like to me, as I can get pass it but there not making some people happy on the marking side how they put this things out and not thinking that wrong way to do it.
I am more concerned about how the game will be monetized outside of the packs, f2p games tend to be set up so that at some point you have to start paying to be competitive, and the more you pay the bigger the advantage.
In terms of whether this is a rip off though, its on a completely different level to upcoming games that are selling space ships/houses or charging subs before the game is even in beta. Seems very tame compared to what I am seeing certain other small companies trying to pull.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Do a 10 minute search for videos on this game, and you'll find all the convincing you need to not pay Trion $150.
Don;t get me wrong, in the games I like, I would be incredibly surprised if I did not spend considerably more than the average... but I dislike feeling manipulated. I am happy to spend money on the entertainment I consume, but I am not happy if the method of extracting that cash feels... well I said it, manipulative.
My current way of handling this... when I see that a game is selling a $500 starter pack, I walk away. When I see that a game intends to sell gambling packs, I walk away. It has made the MMOs I now choose to stick with far more rewarding as a result.