I agree. Its tough to write in these kinds of threads due to all the emotions that inevitably seep out. As I look over my last post, I am heavily tempted to edit it out. However, sometimes its best to just live and let live. Sometimes the emotions conveyed are a critical part of the message.
I think some of us expected Yoshida to be a bit more educated in MMORPG history than he actually is. Sometime after the 2.3 release, they must have started to realize that the content they were releasing wasn't holding players, something they should have known ahead of time by virtue of WoW's release history. They then raised the level cap with the expansion. It feels like he is traveling familiar waters by making mistakes other MMORPG development teams have made and learning from those mistakes as he makes them. The problem is once these mistakes have been made, there is no going back.
Don't sweat it man, just need to come to terms that Yoshi P has a vision of what he wants FFXIV to be and its not the MMO that we want. The best you can do is try to make some friends and enjoy it together while waiting for something better to come along or jump on the FFXI train and play a real quality MMO that will be one of the last of its kind. The WoW method is a tried and true system that brings in the players but it causes a lot of stress on the dev team to maintain such a system. FFXIV is currently on top as the best themepark to play for two reasons 1. Polish and 2. Consistency of updates. Since SE is not known to slack on polish then it comes down to update consistency and how much meat is in each patch. The moment the consistency slows and/or the amount of meaty content slows it is just as crap as any other WoW clones in this market.
I have said many times there is nothing wrong with a themepark, but a combination of straight horizontal progression (made even worse with the 3.0 stat re-balances) as well as borderline acceptable dungeon content and the excessive need of fluff content and more activities that have no purpose in character progression. Add crafting despite the games repeated need to screw crafters over and by the time you get to PvP the dev team has spread itself so thin that you don't even get 60 cap maps for any of the older more interesting battegrounds for HW launch. You get stuck with Seize rock (which I call RNG Rock) because SE has found the need to even add RNG to PvP where the victor is based on where nodes spawn, and laughing hysterically when 3 nodes spawn right next to a enemy GC's spawn point.... That being said this game can have a lot of content or not much of any content at all depending on what kinds of activities you find yourself enjoying. One of my pet peeves in all of this is that because they spread themselves so thin trying to please everyone that a lot of notable activities like crafting and PvP really don't get the attention they deserve and thus don't work properly.
The devs want everyone to play the game a certain way and in a specific order. Which is too bad because the game is begging to be played non linearly. Couldn't get past the wall of required dungeons and raids just so I could access the new gathering and crafting content. I thought I could, but it finally beat me.
The game is a smashing success without my subs so in the end they were right and didn't need people like me to support them.
I had fun when they let me hehe. Seems to be the case with most mmos these days. I look forward to finding my next virtual world.
The devs want everyone to play the game a certain way and in a specific order. Which is too bad because the game is begging to be played non linearly. Couldn't get past the wall of required dungeons and raids just so I could access the new gathering and crafting content. I thought I could, but it finally beat me.
The game is a smashing success without my subs so in the end they were right and didn't need people like me to support them.
I had fun when they let me hehe. Seems to be the case with most mmos these days. I look forward to finding my next virtual world.
Was curious if you decided to ride out the HW expansion because I did recall you were a big crafter, it truly is unfortunate that you couldn't get though it. I can't really say you are missing anything, SE strikes again with crafting in 3.0 because if you don't HQ a ilvl 180 piece of equipment it will never sell. Someone thought it was a bright idea to make a HQ ilvl 160 item stronger than a 180 NQ so yeah.. just going to leave it at that. Also while its nice that you have a weekly cap and new relic gear to grind for crafters now, you can sell the weekly currency mats on the AH so if you have more money you essentially pay to advance which I also severely dislike. Once again crafting has been re instated as the activity where you get it to cap, harvest said resource and make more money selling said items to crafters than crafting as a career itself. While I admit the storyline was slightly less cringe worthy, it was just barely better than 2.3 onwards, overall HW is a decent only on the grounds that it couldn't of been worse than 2.0-2.55 which isn't something to be proud of.
Let it be said that I won't be like the other FFXIV purists and tell you to "rough it out" and "just get through it because there is a so many things to do" and whatnot. You simply did not agree with content walling people out of expansion content and I think you need to stand by what you believe in. I was at 2.55 ready for 3.0 over a month before it dropped and I still disagree with this logic, story and content in a MMO should be optional or separate entirely. If you want story then go play a jrpg or on of many awesome story driven western games out there. Now that i think of it among the other features in each content drop storyline yet again is another example where resources could be used better creating more content instead of a very lackluster narrative.
Let it be said that I won't be like the other FFXIV purists and tell you to "rough it out" and "just get through it because there is a so many things to do" and whatnot. You simply did not agree with content walling people out of expansion content and I think you need to stand by what you believe in. I was at 2.55 ready for 3.0 over a month before it dropped and I still disagree with this logic, story and content in a MMO should be optional or separate entirely. If you want story then go play a jrpg or on of many awesome story driven western games out there. Now that i think of it among the other features in each content drop storyline yet again is another example where resources could be used better creating more content instead of a very lackluster narrative.
This is your Opinion Darkfalz and thats it. The game is a large success and people love playing it. Just because you dont like it does not mean it should be so. Just like in another MMO my Opinion about making you force to play a Minimum 3 hours at a is a bad thing, its only my opinion even if a large part of the MMO base cannot do it. If you have not noticed MMOs are going back to niche Market players, meaning if you like this game great if not move on to the next.
If you enjoy modern mmos and the direction they've taken you'll absolutely love this game. Otherwise, you're going to hate it. As has been said before, it's WoW with an ff skin and very few differences. Also, I'm glad im not the only one who thinks fighting Ifrit with Fire is stupid and indicative of how dumbed-down the entire game is.
This is your Opinion Darkfalz and thats it. The game is a large success and people love playing it. Just because you dont like it does not mean it should be so. Just like in another MMO my Opinion about making you force to play a Minimum 3 hours at a is a bad thing, its only my opinion even if a large part of the MMO base cannot do it. If you have not noticed MMOs are going back to niche Market players, meaning if you like this game great if not move on to the next.
Once again Danwest, I think we all know that we are posting opinions and this post particularly does reflect a heavily opinionated response so good job on pointing that out! No one said that my "opinion" is going to sway anyone here from trying the game out, because its my o-p-i-n-i-o-n and for god sakes there's a trial for this game and you can see for yourself for free.... The first thing you tell someone that wants to know if a game is worth playing is to play it for themselves, and those posting about a game that has a free trial....cmon man.... I don't understand your play 3 hours sentence, would you mind clarifying? And no I haven't noticed MMOs coming back to a niche market unless you are talking about all the kickstarter MMOs that are currently being developed like crowfall/pathfinder/camelot unchanged e.t.c.
Games are going one of two ways as of late:
1.The same tried and true Themepark token grind simulator route.
2. The F2P but not really free to play but rather pay to win or pay to advance, entirely designed to separate your money from your wallet rather than provide a unique and fun gaming experience.
You seem to like adding the same one liner at the end of every post whenever you disagree with someone's opinion about this game: "If you don't like it move on to the next". You see if you have been actually reading some of what I posted you would of noticed that I mentioned that FFXIV is the best themepark on the market. When every MMO out there is a themepark I reckon if I was a pig then I'd stick to the farm that pours the pig slop in my trough at a more consistent basis, granted the pig slop is content in this case. Even if this wasn't the case you seem to be very misinformed as to why people like labo, colt, wizardy and many others including me complain about this game. For me and a few others we all got to play the trainwreck that was 1.0 but only a small few got to experience 1.2 and its the very reason that we wish this game to be more than a token grinder instance dungeon simulator themepark with large helping of fluff.
When you really complain to the degree as someone like me, and you still can't tell I do it because I'm a diehard supporter of the FF brand and I want the best for it then I don't know what to tell you. I am very passionate about the final fantasy series as a whole, especially the online titles SE has given us and to see it devolved into the same crap we have been spoon fed for the last decade; the only justice I can provide is in the form of complaints. I apologize if I have insulted your perfect "Best MMO of the past 10 years Yoshi P savior of FFXIV tm".
Also for Foomerang, this quote was directly ripped from the latest FFXIV Live letter in regards to how 4.0 content will be handled:
Main Scenario Progression to Access 4.0 Content
Though it’s still a bit early to talk about this, you’ll be able to access and accept quests for Patch 4.0 even if you have not completed the main scenario for the Patch 3.x series. Similarly, you’ll be able to unlock new jobs regardless of your scenario progression. Due to this, we feel the need to create a system that will allow you to watch a digest of what happened. However, for the 3.0 story, since everyone has seen everything up until now I think it was enjoyable, and while there were some pros and cons for this, I think having the system we did for the 3.x series was a good thing.
There was a significant outcry about the bs content walling for 3.0 and while Yoshi feels that they made the right choice, moving forward they will refrain from doing this in the future.
This is your Opinion Darkfalz and thats it. The game is a large success and people love playing it. Just because you dont like it does not mean it should be so. Just like in another MMO my Opinion about making you force to play a Minimum 3 hours at a is a bad thing, its only my opinion even if a large part of the MMO base cannot do it. If you have not noticed MMOs are going back to niche Market players, meaning if you like this game great if not move on to the next.
Don't worry about it. People have opinions on everything. I like both old school and newer theme parks and can see the good and the bad in both. Besides this won't be the last of these threads. Every three to six months or so a thread just like this one comes up going over the same reasons they don't like the game.(A couple of them the same folks from previous threads) Ranging from it's not enough like XI to it's not a sandbox to whatever else. Just don't worry about it because it will happen again and again.
And if you think its bad on these forums then maybe you should look at the official forums. People tend to get a lot more passionate than some of the threads here, to the extreme that threads actually get taken down quite frequently. While I feel that those who just wish FFXIV was more like FFXI are a little much I still think there are a few pages FFXIV could take from FFXI's book. Alternate advancement with the job points system and allowing more traits/cross class abilities as well as a ongoing siege-type event where battle classes and gathering classes can work together for rewards (the islands and airship exploration coming soon is rumored to have some of these features) would of been perfect for HW. For me its not so much as make it like FFXI but more like make it like 1.2 and add some open world dynamic dungeons and bring hamlets back e.t.c. Moving away from what it can copy from its other MMO, I simply want FFXIV to have its OWN identity and features/gameplay and content that is its own. I'm led to believe this is such a terrible thing to ask for according to Danwest.
You see the problem with telling everyone to piss off if they don't like it is the very people that developers hate when it comes to the community that plays their game. As much as they like the blind followers to stroke their egos because they could do no wrong; developers seek ways to improve their game to reach a larger audience while still keeping a dedicated long term interest in the game. Themepark's are a tried and true method when it comes to MMO design but they also suffer the pitfalls subscription drops in between patches and pre expansion luls more than other types of games. People like me who actively play and support the game while daring it to become better are here to ensure that Danwest doesn't wind up being the last one idling in IDLE-Shire because he told everyone else to piss off. Because of this Yoshi has adopted the ideal listed below:
And the one line that sticks more than the others "Never forget your roots"
This is your Opinion Darkfalz and thats it. The game is a large success and people love playing it. Just because you dont like it does not mean it should be so. Just like in another MMO my Opinion about making you force to play a Minimum 3 hours at a is a bad thing, its only my opinion even if a large part of the MMO base cannot do it. If you have not noticed MMOs are going back to niche Market players, meaning if you like this game great if not move on to the next.
Don't worry about it. People have opinions on everything. I like both old school and newer theme parks and can see the good and the bad in both. Besides this won't be the last of these threads. Every three to six months or so a thread just like this one comes up going over the same reasons they don't like the game.(A couple of them the same folks from previous threads) Ranging from it's not enough like XI to it's not a sandbox to whatever else. Just don't worry about it because it will happen again and again.
And if you think its bad on these forums then maybe you should look at the official forums. People tend to get a lot more passionate than some of the threads here, to the extreme that threads actually get taken down quite frequently. While I feel that those who just wish FFXIV was more like FFXI are a little much I still think there are a few pages FFXIV could take from FFXI's book. Alternate advancement with the job points system and allowing more traits/cross class abilities as well as a ongoing siege-type event where battle classes and gathering classes can work together for rewards (the islands and airship exploration coming soon is rumored to have some of these features) would of been perfect for HW. For me its not so much as make it like FFXI but more like make it like 1.2 and add some open world dynamic dungeons and bring hamlets back e.t.c. Moving away from what it can copy from its other MMO, I simply want FFXIV to have its OWN identity and features/gameplay and content that is its own. I'm led to believe this is such a terrible thing to ask for according to Danwest.
You see the problem with telling everyone to piss off if they don't like it is the very people that developers hate when it comes to the community that plays their game. As much as they like the blind followers to stroke their egos because they could do no wrong; developers seek ways to improve their game to reach a larger audience while still keeping a dedicated long term interest in the game. Themepark's are a tried and true method when it comes to MMO design but they also suffer the pitfalls subscription drops in between patches and pre expansion luls more than other types of games. People like me who actively play and support the game while daring it to become better are here to ensure that Danwest doesn't wind up being the last one idling in IDLE-Shire because he told everyone else to piss off. Because of this Yoshi has adopted the ideal listed below:
And the one line that sticks more than the others "Never forget your roots"
Week after Week, Month after Month you cry about this game non stop. If 1.2 was SO fucking good why SE shut the game down and redesign it? BECAUSE IT WAS FAILING and the Combat in 1.2 sucked, it was several seconds slower than combat now. If you want FFXI go play it and quit crying. You just endlessly complain.
The thing is the game is fine as a single player RPG with coincidental player tag team up for quest dungeons. It runs into heaps of problems when it comes to the persistent world due to various issues and limitations, such as the housing wards, limited inventory space for gear, repetitive challenges, and little in the way of flexibility with the individual classes. The only thing players can do to keep the game interesting is to switch their job, which they may not want to do. Not only that, but we can already "switch our job" in just about any other MMORPG: We just make a new character. Looking at the game in that light, we end up with a job system that has less flexibility and replayability than the system WoW has adopted, as even their own system incorporates different builds for the same job.
Also, older titles like EQ2 boast a much more robust and complicated game system that provides much more long term enjoyment than what FFXIV can offer. So, what we are left with is an okay MMO that doesn't stretch it's legs too much and depends almost entirely on a franchise name and in game merchandising to keep the title moving forward.
Week after Week, Month after Month you cry about this game non stop. If 1.2 was SO fucking good why SE shut the game down and redesign it? BECAUSE IT WAS FAILING and the Combat in 1.2 sucked, it was several seconds slower than combat now. If you want FFXI go play it and quit crying. You just endlessly complain.
The motion to go through with doing a complete re-branding and remake of the game was set many months before the 1.2 patch even dropped. Regardless of how well/poor 1.2 was received would not turn SE's decision in the slightest. To add to that as I've mentioned before that even those who experienced/enjoyed 1.2 knew in the back of their mind a complete re-branding was the only way to create a impact strong enough to regain everyone's interest to try the game again. As much as though I hate to admit it,the several gig "miracle patch" that was 1.2 alone was not enough to make good on the mistake of 1.0. Combat wasn't necessarily slower, the horrendous server lag is what caused a 1-2 second "input delay" though animations were much more top notch but little in number.
I'll come here month after month and year after year until we get the next gen FF MMO that the FF name deserves, to create another unique experience that we will remember once again years after the servers shut down. I don't catch every thread on the MMORPG forums because I am way more active on the OF since whining here does very little to improve the game. Occasionally I'll run into a fellow player that has a similar sentiment and refer them to the OF to make their suggestions and complaints known, but I'm sure you will be here on your trusty white steed clad in white shining armor to accost me of my severe transgressions against your god Naoki Yoshida. Something you may want to consider when reading over this thread is reading the title, as it may suggest there is going to be a heavily opinion-based post count. There will be people that will voice their concerns and as a player that is satisfied with his game experience you are welcome to "move on" rather than worry about my part in threads that very well don't apply to you?
People are just discussing how they feel about the expansion and others are expanding on it with their own experiences.If you agree then expand upon it, if you disagree then feel free to explain why and wish them good luck on their continued search of a MMO to call home. For all the supposed "whining" threads there is a wealthy amount of "This is the best game/mmo/experience" thread so you are more then welcome to start the thousandth thread of why this game is amazing. I am more then welcome to join in the discussion but in the end my "experience" varies from the people posting but in the end its all opinion anyway. Most of these kind of threads however can devolve into just whining so I can't say I disagree with you Dan, but for me I do it for a different reason and its a shame that you just cant see it. In the end the nature of these threads can still yield change for the better if enough people feel the same way and don't worry Dan, you will still get all of your vanity and more of the same dungeon token grinding content every month. While you are enjoying more of the same the game can still expand and offer more activities that may offer more consistently enjoyable gameplay experiences.
I can agree that FFXIV could use a few extra things to help it stand out more content wise. In a interview with gamewatch translated by Blue Gartr recently Yoshi said he wanted to start adding new unique content because 2.0 had laid a good foundation for them to build on. http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/126325-Game-Watch-Translation-Interview-with-Yoshida-at-Gamescom-2015 Will you be adding to any of the existing attractions?
"Yoshida: We will be. Another one of the items is balance adjustments for chocobo races. In addition to the Gold Saucer content, we're also working on implementing a totally new play style called "Sky Island Exploration," which is unlikely anything we've had before. However, we've always added three instanced dungeons in each patch before, but it will be two starting with the next patch. Instead of producing a bunch of similar type of content, we'd rather spread out the cost of our development to new types of content.
Will there be a new type of content in every patch?
Yoshida: The production cost of instanced dungeons is not that high, so we think those will continue to be included in every patch. We're trying to understand our workflow and overall schedule and upcoming new elements better so we can understand if it makes sense to pool certain costs from two patches and have one large update. We are planning to add a bunch of content in the 3.X series that's unlike what we've had before. Perhaps some of the content will fail, but at least we can say we're trying a bunch of new things. I think we developed a pretty solid foundation of gameplay with the 2.0 series, so now we're proposing new things we haven't done before.
You've been saying some of the things you're expecting to add for a while now, so what kinds of things are planned for the 3.X line-up?
Yoshida: We have things like the Grand Company platoon and content using Magitek armor, and we're looking at the calendar and carefully planning it out."
Of course I don't know how they will be put in the game but they will be trying new things every update from now on from what I read here.
Yes, I've been reading up on the latest interviews with the whole gamescon wrap up and I definitely have my hopes up. Its been far too long since we got a grand companies update and these other features are exactly what the game needs! Thanks for being a good sport and staying on topic instead of personally attacking others and playing the role of captain obvious. PvP is also looking to see some changes with forced GC grouping, once again like the content gating of 3.0 while SE disagrees in its practicality they are still looking to change their views due to a "OUTSTANDING amount of player FEEDBACK on the OF".
FF ARR certainly has its flaws, but what themepark doesnt ?
Isnt it all the same carrot on a stick ? Gear progression trough questing / dungeons / raids ?
I hope the best is still to come, more pvp is also welcome as i realy like doing that
Definitely been loving the PvP, its provided me with a alternative to boring dungeon grinding for eso every week. I more or less was completely bored of Nevereap and Fractal and within the first week and I've been supplementing Alexander and doing my PvP and Trails daily to cap for the week and Frontlines are a breath of fresh air. FFXIV doesn't actually have a PvP team and it shows, all the content is made through their battle team and I really hope they expand more and give us 60 caps for all the older maps because they were pretty fun. Seize rock is a bit too RNG for my tastes but still a lot more fund than the same two dungeons week in and week out.
The thing is the game is fine as a single player RPG with coincidental player tag team up for quest dungeons. It runs into heaps of problems when it comes to the persistent world due to various issues and limitations, such as the housing wards, limited inventory space for gear, repetitive challenges, and little in the way of flexibility with the individual classes. The only thing players can do to keep the game interesting is to switch their job, which they may not want to do. Not only that, but we can already "switch our job" in just about any other MMORPG: We just make a new character. Looking at the game in that light, we end up with a job system that has less flexibility and replayability than the system WoW has adopted, as even their own system incorporates different builds for the same job.
Also, older titles like EQ2 boast a much more robust and complicated game system that provides much more long term enjoyment than what FFXIV can offer. So, what we are left with is an okay MMO that doesn't stretch it's legs too much and depends almost entirely on a franchise name and in game merchandising to keep the title moving forward.
In agreement with a lot of your points here and sadly I don't feel classes are going to change any time soon. I'm not sure how much of heavensward that you played but a lot of classes really got a fresh breath of air with the 5 new abilities along with varies tweaks and changes that HW brought. From what I've noticed a lot of classes changed so drastically that I need to get BRD, MCN, and MNK (currently 56 so getting there :P) to 60 because I may actually enjoy them more than I did before. Does any of this change how my BRD plays vs any other BRD well no, but its a darn good place to start. I feel the expansion gave each class enough toys to keep us busy that I rather not have more X class abilities that I want to fit into my rotation. I do feel a alternate advancement systems and a trait system overhaul would be a awesome addition.
The ability to "augment" your abilities such as monks Crit buff to apply to party like DRG's crit buff, or using "augment" points to reduce your jump cooldowns as DRG e.t.c. would be really cool. Pairing something like this with a set bonus system like two pieces offering "increased jump damage by x%" so when you find a new piece of armor you have to actually "think" about if it actually is better or figure a way to make it work better than your current setup rather than just slapping it on "BECAUSE MORE ILVL MEANS MORE MAINS STAT DUR".
As Dan mentioned the UI and battle elements are pretty darn smexy and I've gotten over the whole 2.5 GCD but there is still more room for improvement. Past the fact that each DRG plays the same way as any other DRG rotations have become just a little less tighter than 3.0 but still fairly similar. The Idea that you have to mash a very specific combination of moves as a opener so you can fool your DPS meters into over-calculating your simulated DPS is just borderline ridiculous and further limits varied gameplay. The fact that players figured out a specific pattern of OCD and GCD weaving to push the absolute limit of DPS makes it feel like I'm playing a memory game where I'm allowed very little error due to fear of someone "parsing" and my "Deeps being too low". While I've played many 1 2 3 button mashing MMO's of today I can't say I felt that there wasn't room for improvement but when I heard about the GCD/OCD weaving and how to properly DPS I can say that its been quite the head scratcher for me...
I'd just like to point out something... I see a lot of people talking about "how limiting the game is", how it's "linear", how you "have to play a certain way for 'x' or 'y' reasons"...
Thing is, the game is all those things if that's how you're playing it.
Generally speaking, people tend to assume the way they play the game is the way everyone is does, or ought to be playing. It's really a kind of projection, and we see it all the time.
When people talk about "doing nothing but grinding the same dungeons over and over again, just go get tokens for better gear, so you can grind more dungeons for more tokens"... What they're basically saying, implicitly, is "I grind the same dungeons over and over again, to get better gear, so I can grind more dungeons, and I assume that's how everyone else is going to play it, too. So, since I don't find it fun, others won't, either".
Not everyone approaches the same game in the same way. Not everyone enjoys the same kind of content, in the same way, at the same pace. Not everyone prioritizes their activities the same. Not one everyone has the same experience in the game.
I can tell you flat out, that "grinding dungeons over and over to get tokens for better gear" does not, in any way shape or form, describe my experience - nor that of many, many others. I finished the HW main story arc (which was awesome) a few weeks ago now, and I haven't touched Alexander, Fractal Continuum, or any of that other content. I've barely stepped foot in any of the HW areas, for that matter. I've been spending my time working on crafting/gathering, working on building my FC, working on other Jobs/Classes I've wanted to level. I've been helping others with dungeons, queueing up for roulettes. I've been spending a lot of time at Golden Saucer. I've been hanging out at Costa Del Sol, enjoying the festivities, meeting new people, etc.
Basically, I've been doing a wide variety of things that I find fun. None of it involves "grinding dungeons over and over for tokens". That sounds boring as hell to me, and I have no interest in doing it. So I don't. Why would I?
Does that mean I'm going to be behind on the gear progression? Yep. Absolutely. I already am behind, in fact. But, here's the thing.. I don't care. I'm not running that race. "Having the latest and greatest end-game gear" isn't the be-all, end-all to me. In fact, I know I would find that process as boring as others describe it to be - and that's why I don't do it. Why would I want to do something that feels like a job, when there's so much else to do that actually have fun with. Yeah, "fun". That thing games are supposed to be, and are, as long as you don't turn it into a second job that you complain about constantly.
I'm enjoying the game in my own way, on my own terms, at my own pace. And I'm having a ball.
There is tons to do in this game, and so when people, like some in this thread, and in many others, insist that it's "nothing but repeating the same dungeons over and over again"... I have no idea what you're talking about, because you sure as hell aren't describing the game I'm playing.
Now, I'm not saying that people who are doing the end-game grind are "doing it wrong", or "Playing the game wrong". Not at all. Just be a bit more self-aware, and realize that while your experience is certainly true to you, and to others... it is not true to everyone.
We're effectively sharing the same world, but we're playing very different games.
So what you are saying is you like the final fantasy wrapper on your vanity with a GUI then. Everything you just described as fun is present in just about every MMO in the market. Most of the features you described are available in offline games such as Sims online and Second life, while other pure social aspects are available via social networking hubs (for FREE). So what you mean to tell me is you enjoy paying $13.00 USD a month to get a GUI with a Final fantasy wrapper? Its great that you have a metric ton of pointless activities to do in this game but when so much of the game is revolved around this "fluff" resources are spread a little thin and the end result is a piss poor character progression experience. The staple of a MMO R-P-G is as you may have noticed from the RPG in its title, as a role playing game of which advancing your character is the primary purpose. In case you have not gotten the memo a MMORPG isn't "primarily" about raising a digital garden, furnishing a digital home, racing chobocos and d-d-d-d-d-d-d-ueling NPC's because that is not the PRIMARY draw for people playing MMORPG's.
We are all entitled to our own opinion in the end so what you find enjoyable and what i find enjoyable may vary. Let it be said that when I get the same type of content to play the same type of way for the same type of currency with the same time of weekly limitations then some "fluff" corners should be cut to possibly re-invigorate and add depth to the activities we have actually come here to partake of. Instead of so much "fluff" and "varied content" in each patch may be we could get PvP team to fix the train wreck that is PvP and add some varied content to do while progressing our characters and making them stronger BECAUSE THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A MMORPG first and foremost. When I can literally predict what content is coming out patch for patch down to the very last details excluding item and the "new token" name then there may be some stagnation no? Surely all of this has a grand purpose in creating other activities, but as I step into the Golden Saucer zone and see practically NO ONE there makes me question how many people feel the same way as you.
This conversation is a moot point in the end because as per some juicy tidbits that driven has provided us Yoshi claims to have seen this as an issue and plans on doing something about it. The reason I felt the need to respond to your post was to let you know that because what you like to do in the game can be as fun as you claim and I am happy for you, but if its existence is at the cost for the primary purpose of the game then that doesn't just make it all fine and dandy. If you feel that this isn't the sole purpose of a MMORPG then look no further than having to PROGRESS through story content to access the content that you are doing. Crafting is the only thing in all of that which actually has a meta and has a stake in the progression aspect of the game. While I can admit crafting really gave me some purpose in playing the game and gave me a goal when it comes to getting a mansion for my small FC, its got some major glaring problems and always has. The crafting system in this game is amazing, but when you take a moment to step back you can see that its severely masochistic.
Real crafters do not see each mid patch of the game with hope like the many "fluff" hunters, we see them as how hard are we going to get kicked in the nads this time. When I heard that scrips offered a way for crafters to "further the meta" into an actual career with character progression I was excited, but it took a step back and saw the bigger picture. Once again non crafters given the ability to sell scrip mats to crafters walk away with the bigger bulge in their pocket. The very idea of attempting to HQ a ilvl 180, full well knowing that if its NQ you have lost millions of gill is what lies at the end of the road. Because if you don't HQ a ilvl 180, someone will just buy a HQ ilvl 160 so in the end the consistent profit of selling to crafters makes the most money in the end. If you trudge along to level 60 with all the crafting classes full knowing this then I can only wish you luck.Just know that just because your side of the grass is a blooming meadow with a beautiful rainbow and all is perfect in your little patch doesn't mean the raging inferno of destruction that surrounds you from all sides suddenly doesn't exist. I'm sorry but your post came across to me as someone covering up their ears and saying I can't hear you because you are saying things that I don't want to hear.
No one is really missing anything if they dont play for like 6 months, since new stuff is always dumbed down like 2-3 months after released. That aside, if you really like vanity, that's all you're really going to get with this game. Gear is pretty pointless, even more pointless than the gear grind in wow. Not supporting wow really but at least wow does try to vary things up a little with set bonuses and alteration to skill if you have x-number of a set. XIV is just "collect this so you can do savage! and replace what you just got with stuff that will most-likely have worse stats but higher ilevel....also, have fun!." But most importantly, dont forget to grind your ponies of literally a different color so you can eventually fly them.
No one is really missing anything if they dont play for like 6 months, since new stuff is always dumbed down like 2-3 months after released. That aside, if you really like vanity, that's all you're really going to get with this game. Gear is pretty pointless, even more pointless than the gear grind in wow. Not supporting wow really but at least wow does try to vary things up a little with set bonuses and alteration to skill if you have x-number of a set. XIV is just "collect this so you can do savage! and replace what you just got with stuff that will most-likely have worse stats but higher ilevel....also, have fun!." But most importantly, dont forget to grind your ponies of literally a different color so you can eventually fly them.
This is the most accurate description of the current end game ever. And it's saddens me. In FFXI a certain piece of gear was relevant for months (years even?), in FFXIV you are constantly trying to get new gear. I hated it in WoW and I hate it worst in XIV.
No one is really missing anything if they dont play for like 6 months, since new stuff is always dumbed down like 2-3 months after released. That aside, if you really like vanity, that's all you're really going to get with this game. Gear is pretty pointless, even more pointless than the gear grind in wow. Not supporting wow really but at least wow does try to vary things up a little with set bonuses and alteration to skill if you have x-number of a set. XIV is just "collect this so you can do savage! and replace what you just got with stuff that will most-likely have worse stats but higher ilevel....also, have fun!." But most importantly, dont forget to grind your ponies of literally a different color so you can eventually fly them.
This is the most accurate description of the current end game ever. And it's saddens me. In FFXI a certain piece of gear was relevant for months (years even?), in FFXIV you are constantly trying to get new gear. I hated it in WoW and I hate it worst in XIV.
You could blame WOW on this however its really not WOW's fault because players no longer are interested in a game when they have all the best gear and have to wait years to months to upgrade it. Take the time between WOTLK and today's WOW, players quit when they have all the best gear and there is nothing else to do for 10 to 16 months while they wait on the next expansion. So instead of making content like Vanilla or TBC where large portions of your player base cannot get into the content they went to the other extreme and give everyone a ton of powerful gear. It sucks however its the truth.
Until Endgame gets better balance in MMOs altogether its hard to expect much else. The core problem with any balance is the self entitled players who will complain that the best gear is in Raiding even if its 8 man raiding however these players all they will ever want to do is dungeons and even if you make really good gear come out of dungeons these entitled people will bitch they need raid gear. This is coming from a person who in WOW only did Kara and ZA in TBC who didnt care that I didnt get Sunwell gear yet I was happy with Heroic Dungeon gear. Too many casual players want shit handed to them, therefore you got the gear treadmill. While it was there in TBC and Vanilla WOW sometimes it took you 6+ months to replace gear because it took you that long to down the next set of content. Today people will not stand for "THE GRIND" because MMOs have become Welfare like games.
Re WOW: One thing which may stun some modern day players was the repeat running of raids - not for yourself, but for other guild members who hadn't got the gear. Week in, week out, we would organise raid groups with the same core people - bringing in newer guild members so they could level up their gear.
People have a go at WOW, but my memories have the general community head and shoulders above some of the more modern day games.
Re WOW: One thing which may stun some modern day players was the repeat running of raids - not for yourself, but for other guild members who hadn't got the gear. Week in, week out, we would organise raid groups with the same core people - bringing in newer guild members so they could level up their gear.
People have a go at WOW, but my memories have the general community head and shoulders above some of the more modern day games.
Yep I remember those days too, before the Dungeon Finders and Raid Finders. When if you didnt run stuff to help new players out them new players were not there for you when you needed help. I remember when the Bench for most non hardcore raiding guilds was used often so it really was not much of a bench, Plus when people took accountability in finding guilds they fit in vs blaming the game being Multiplayer and needing to find groups for them.
No one is really missing anything if they dont play for like 6 months, since new stuff is always dumbed down like 2-3 months after released. That aside, if you really like vanity, that's all you're really going to get with this game. Gear is pretty pointless, even more pointless than the gear grind in wow. Not supporting wow really but at least wow does try to vary things up a little with set bonuses and alteration to skill if you have x-number of a set. XIV is just "collect this so you can do savage! and replace what you just got with stuff that will most-likely have worse stats but higher ilevel....also, have fun!." But most importantly, dont forget to grind your ponies of literally a different color so you can eventually fly them.
Well your right in a way but actually best in slot can often be token or even 24 man raid gear because it has more useful stats. Also yes they do dumb down hard fights every 3 to 6 months because over 75 percent of the population can't beat it. Thank you for pointing out mount collecting. It's one of the large amounts of side things you can do besides end game grind. I agree there could be more gear stat diversity but they have said they were looking into it a while back and were leaning toward putting stats on gear that help skills in some way. Yoshi did say in a recent interview that now that they are have a good base for the game they will be trying different things. So who knowS?
You two have more or less summed up my current feelings with the game, no real point arguing in circles since that live letter juicy bits that you quoted. All that I am looking for and to a degree many others are is variety of content excluding raiding. I find raiding in FFXIV to be one of the best and strongest features, but I wont lie that with it being summer getting 60+ hour work weeks and lacking a adamant work schedule I haven't been able to partake of savage. I feel normal Alex was a very good foot forward to put in HW and it has really curbed my dungeon grinding burnout I experienced in every patch of 2.0. Doing alex normals even with 4 RL friends can still take some time because SE likes to always give one of us single digit rolls or roll a 98 to lose to a 99 every week because the asian RNG is real. While RNG and rolls have always been frustrating, doing a mixture of alex/PvP and trials every week I have been able to sidestep expert roulette's all together and my god do I love it. I'm really glad they removed having the need to unlock EVERY trial fight in HW because I never got access to trials prior since I REFUSE to get battle on the bridge. This is in part due to Hildebrand being the stupidest storyline I have every tried to get through to date. I do not skip cutscenes because I am here for the storytelling and despite going into Hilderbrand KNOWING its just a silly storyline still I was unable to even get to gilga.
One thing I will say is the game has a lot of "things" to do but anything that lacks a relevance to gear progression is still not content to me. I have said this several times but adding a very very minor amount of Esoterics to triple triad matches that you WIN, even specifying specific "harder" NPCS that you can only get them from and boom its content. Adding some kind of incentive for gear progression or even choosing rewards being MGP or Poetics for a lot of Golden Saucer minigames and the whole place would be booming. I'm not asking for SE to give me ESO for watering my digital plants but the option of turning in very rare bound items from harvesting or doing other activities for ESO could totally make this work. I just want diversity of content and that doesn't mean It all has to involve smashing my face against my keyboard for hardcore battle content. As a closer it would be nice if 25% of players ever cleared coil when it was relevant, the going statistic from SE themselves had it at less than 10% and its probably going to be even worse with how hard Alex Savage is. Lets just say you didn't want to know the JP/NA players split of that 10%.........
Edit: Gear and stat diversity really need to happen in this game because it really stagnates content, a lot of the secondary stat gear did come from token gear for SOME classes and varied from patch to patch. I don't think you can argue that coil gear always had crit/acc crit/det primarily for a lot of classes. The buff to skill/spell speed was much needed but the MAJOR nerf to Crit and small nerf to DET made the ilvl jacking up even worse than 2.x and I am really disappointed in that.
I think FFXIV boils down to (mostly) 3 camps of people, if I were to stereotype (poorly) most every player.
The people who focus and/or push through to bleeding edge - They either love it, because it is updated frequently and puts out new challenges on a regular basis and they can just keep up with it, or they hate it because the content comes in small enough chunks that they are able to get through it before the next bit is out, or the combat is stale, there are too many/not enough abilities, it's too much/not enough like WoW, etc. These folks pretty much just focus on their one class or role, min-maxing that class/role in PvE, and that's about it. Nothing wrong with these folks, just they are either going to love it, or hate it, and not much inbetween.
The RP/vanity folks - these aren't really the same camp but I'm lumping them together because they are really playing FFXIV as a meta - the game is there, but they are playing their own game inside of it. It has a great lore, a good sense of community, there is a pretty flexible emote and vanity system in place. The vanity folks may burn out, because while they are always adding new stuff, there's only so much dress-up you can do before your just in the same gear chase as the PvE folks, but it's fun while it lasts. The RPers tend to love it - heck, you can even log out by going to sleep...
The horizontal progression folks - these are the alt-o-holics, the people who are too ADD to focus on one class, the dirty casuals, etc. This was the primary audience for this game the first time around (1.0), the reason that the class system is designed the way it is, and what was originally intended for players to do - level pretty much everything all the way across. The game has changed away from that somewhat in ARR, but it still has pretty heavy leanings in this direction. These folks tend to love this game.
I almost put crafters/gatherers as a seperate camp, but really, they can either fall into 1 or 3 pretty readily, depending on which way they lean. There may be a few in the game just for the story, that is one of the hallmarks of the FF line, but really I don't see those people posting/complaining/talking about the game often, and by the time you've got to the end of the story, with the forced dungeons and trials along the way, most of them have pretty well fallen into one of the other camps by then.
Comments
I have said many times there is nothing wrong with a themepark, but a combination of straight horizontal progression (made even worse with the 3.0 stat re-balances) as well as borderline acceptable dungeon content and the excessive need of fluff content and more activities that have no purpose in character progression. Add crafting despite the games repeated need to screw crafters over and by the time you get to PvP the dev team has spread itself so thin that you don't even get 60 cap maps for any of the older more interesting battegrounds for HW launch. You get stuck with Seize rock (which I call RNG Rock) because SE has found the need to even add RNG to PvP where the victor is based on where nodes spawn, and laughing hysterically when 3 nodes spawn right next to a enemy GC's spawn point.... That being said this game can have a lot of content or not much of any content at all depending on what kinds of activities you find yourself enjoying. One of my pet peeves in all of this is that because they spread themselves so thin trying to please everyone that a lot of notable activities like crafting and PvP really don't get the attention they deserve and thus don't work properly.
The game is a smashing success without my subs so in the end they were right and didn't need people like me to support them.
I had fun when they let me hehe. Seems to be the case with most mmos these days. I look forward to finding my next virtual world.
Let it be said that I won't be like the other FFXIV purists and tell you to "rough it out" and "just get through it because there is a so many things to do" and whatnot. You simply did not agree with content walling people out of expansion content and I think you need to stand by what you believe in. I was at 2.55 ready for 3.0 over a month before it dropped and I still disagree with this logic, story and content in a MMO should be optional or separate entirely. If you want story then go play a jrpg or on of many awesome story driven western games out there. Now that i think of it among the other features in each content drop storyline yet again is another example where resources could be used better creating more content instead of a very lackluster narrative.
Games are going one of two ways as of late:
1.The same tried and true Themepark token grind simulator route.
2. The F2P but not really free to play but rather pay to win or pay to advance, entirely designed to separate your money from your wallet rather than provide a unique and fun gaming experience.
You seem to like adding the same one liner at the end of every post whenever you disagree with someone's opinion about this game: "If you don't like it move on to the next". You see if you have been actually reading some of what I posted you would of noticed that I mentioned that FFXIV is the best themepark on the market. When every MMO out there is a themepark I reckon if I was a pig then I'd stick to the farm that pours the pig slop in my trough at a more consistent basis, granted the pig slop is content in this case. Even if this wasn't the case you seem to be very misinformed as to why people like labo, colt, wizardy and many others including me complain about this game. For me and a few others we all got to play the trainwreck that was 1.0 but only a small few got to experience 1.2 and its the very reason that we wish this game to be more than a token grinder instance dungeon simulator themepark with large helping of fluff.
When you really complain to the degree as someone like me, and you still can't tell I do it because I'm a diehard supporter of the FF brand and I want the best for it then I don't know what to tell you. I am very passionate about the final fantasy series as a whole, especially the online titles SE has given us and to see it devolved into the same crap we have been spoon fed for the last decade; the only justice I can provide is in the form of complaints. I apologize if I have insulted your perfect "Best MMO of the past 10 years Yoshi P savior of FFXIV tm".
Main Scenario Progression to Access 4.0 Content
Though it’s still a bit early to talk about this, you’ll be able to access and accept quests for Patch 4.0 even if you have not completed the main scenario for the Patch 3.x series. Similarly, you’ll be able to unlock new jobs regardless of your scenario progression. Due to this, we feel the need to create a system that will allow you to watch a digest of what happened. However, for the 3.0 story, since everyone has seen everything up until now I think it was enjoyable, and while there were some pros and cons for this, I think having the system we did for the 3.x series was a good thing.
Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/257609-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-XXIV-Update-Thread/page2
There was a significant outcry about the bs content walling for 3.0 and while Yoshi feels that they made the right choice, moving forward they will refrain from doing this in the future.
You see the problem with telling everyone to piss off if they don't like it is the very people that developers hate when it comes to the community that plays their game. As much as they like the blind followers to stroke their egos because they could do no wrong; developers seek ways to improve their game to reach a larger audience while still keeping a dedicated long term interest in the game. Themepark's are a tried and true method when it comes to MMO design but they also suffer the pitfalls subscription drops in between patches and pre expansion luls more than other types of games. People like me who actively play and support the game while daring it to become better are here to ensure that Danwest doesn't wind up being the last one idling in
IDLE-Shire because he told everyone else to piss off. Because of this Yoshi has adopted the ideal listed below:
And the one line that sticks more than the others "Never forget your roots"
Also, older titles like EQ2 boast a much more robust and complicated game system that provides much more long term enjoyment than what FFXIV can offer. So, what we are left with is an okay MMO that doesn't stretch it's legs too much and depends almost entirely on a franchise name and in game merchandising to keep the title moving forward.
I'll come here month after month and year after year until we get the next gen FF MMO that the FF name deserves, to create another unique experience that we will remember once again years after the servers shut down. I don't catch every thread on the MMORPG forums because I am way more active on the OF since whining here does very little to improve the game. Occasionally I'll run into a fellow player that has a similar sentiment and refer them to the OF to make their suggestions and complaints known, but I'm sure you will be here on your trusty white steed clad in white shining armor to accost me of my severe transgressions against your god Naoki Yoshida. Something you may want to consider when reading over this thread is reading the title, as it may suggest there is going to be a heavily opinion-based post count. There will be people that will voice their concerns and as a player that is satisfied with his game experience you are welcome to "move on" rather than worry about my part in threads that very well don't apply to you?
People are just discussing how they feel about the expansion and others are expanding on it with their own experiences.If you agree then expand upon it, if you disagree then feel free to explain why and wish them good luck on their continued search of a MMO to call home. For all the supposed "whining" threads there is a wealthy amount of "This is the best game/mmo/experience" thread so you are more then welcome to start the thousandth thread of why this game is amazing. I am more then welcome to join in the discussion but in the end my "experience" varies from the people posting but in the end its all opinion anyway. Most of these kind of threads however can devolve into just whining so I can't say I disagree with you Dan, but for me I do it for a different reason and its a shame that you just cant see it. In the end the nature of these threads can still yield change for the better if enough people feel the same way and don't worry Dan, you will still get all of your vanity and more of the same dungeon token grinding content every month. While you are enjoying more of the same the game can still expand and offer more activities that may offer more consistently enjoyable gameplay experiences.
Isnt it all the same carrot on a stick ?
Gear progression trough questing / dungeons / raids ?
I hope the best is still to come, more pvp is also welcome as i realy like doing that
In agreement with a lot of your points here and sadly I don't feel classes are going to change any time soon. I'm not sure how much of heavensward that you played but a lot of classes really got a fresh breath of air with the 5 new abilities along with varies tweaks and changes that HW brought. From what I've noticed a lot of classes changed so drastically that I need to get BRD, MCN, and MNK (currently 56 so getting there :P) to 60 because I may actually enjoy them more than I did before. Does any of this change how my BRD plays vs any other BRD well no, but its a darn good place to start. I feel the expansion gave each class enough toys to keep us busy that I rather not have more X class abilities that I want to fit into my rotation. I do feel a alternate advancement systems and a trait system overhaul would be a awesome addition.
The ability to "augment" your abilities such as monks Crit buff to apply to party like DRG's crit buff, or using "augment" points to reduce your jump cooldowns as DRG e.t.c. would be really cool. Pairing something like this with a set bonus system like two pieces offering "increased jump damage by x%" so when you find a new piece of armor you have to actually "think" about if it actually is better or figure a way to make it work better than your current setup rather than just slapping it on "BECAUSE MORE ILVL MEANS MORE MAINS STAT DUR".
As Dan mentioned the UI and battle elements are pretty darn smexy and I've gotten over the whole 2.5 GCD but there is still more room for improvement. Past the fact that each DRG plays the same way as any other DRG rotations have become just a little less tighter than 3.0 but still fairly similar. The Idea that you have to mash a very specific combination of moves as a opener so you can fool your DPS meters into over-calculating your simulated DPS is just borderline ridiculous and further limits varied gameplay. The fact that players figured out a specific pattern of OCD and GCD weaving to push the absolute limit of DPS makes it feel like I'm playing a memory game where I'm allowed very little error due to fear of someone "parsing" and my "Deeps being too low". While I've played many 1 2 3 button mashing MMO's of today I can't say I felt that there wasn't room for improvement but when I heard about the GCD/OCD weaving and how to properly DPS I can say that its been quite the head scratcher for me...
Thing is, the game is all those things if that's how you're playing it.
Generally speaking, people tend to assume the way they play the game is the way everyone is does, or ought to be playing. It's really a kind of projection, and we see it all the time.
When people talk about "doing nothing but grinding the same dungeons over and over again, just go get tokens for better gear, so you can grind more dungeons for more tokens"... What they're basically saying, implicitly, is "I grind the same dungeons over and over again, to get better gear, so I can grind more dungeons, and I assume that's how everyone else is going to play it, too. So, since I don't find it fun, others won't, either".
Not everyone approaches the same game in the same way. Not everyone enjoys the same kind of content, in the same way, at the same pace. Not everyone prioritizes their activities the same. Not one everyone has the same experience in the game.
I can tell you flat out, that "grinding dungeons over and over to get tokens for better gear" does not, in any way shape or form, describe my experience - nor that of many, many others. I finished the HW main story arc (which was awesome) a few weeks ago now, and I haven't touched Alexander, Fractal Continuum, or any of that other content. I've barely stepped foot in any of the HW areas, for that matter. I've been spending my time working on crafting/gathering, working on building my FC, working on other Jobs/Classes I've wanted to level. I've been helping others with dungeons, queueing up for roulettes. I've been spending a lot of time at Golden Saucer. I've been hanging out at Costa Del Sol, enjoying the festivities, meeting new people, etc.
Basically, I've been doing a wide variety of things that I find fun. None of it involves "grinding dungeons over and over for tokens". That sounds boring as hell to me, and I have no interest in doing it. So I don't. Why would I?
Does that mean I'm going to be behind on the gear progression? Yep. Absolutely. I already am behind, in fact. But, here's the thing.. I don't care. I'm not running that race. "Having the latest and greatest end-game gear" isn't the be-all, end-all to me. In fact, I know I would find that process as boring as others describe it to be - and that's why I don't do it. Why would I want to do something that feels like a job, when there's so much else to do that actually have fun with. Yeah, "fun". That thing games are supposed to be, and are, as long as you don't turn it into a second job that you complain about constantly.
I'm enjoying the game in my own way, on my own terms, at my own pace. And I'm having a ball.
There is tons to do in this game, and so when people, like some in this thread, and in many others, insist that it's "nothing but repeating the same dungeons over and over again"... I have no idea what you're talking about, because you sure as hell aren't describing the game I'm playing.
Now, I'm not saying that people who are doing the end-game grind are "doing it wrong", or "Playing the game wrong". Not at all. Just be a bit more self-aware, and realize that while your experience is certainly true to you, and to others... it is not true to everyone.
We're effectively sharing the same world, but we're playing very different games.
We are all entitled to our own opinion in the end so what you find enjoyable and what i find enjoyable may vary. Let it be said that when I get the same type of content to play the same type of way for the same type of currency with the same time of weekly limitations then some "fluff" corners should be cut to possibly re-invigorate and add depth to the activities we have actually come here to partake of. Instead of so much "fluff" and "varied content" in each patch may be we could get PvP team to fix the train wreck that is PvP and add some varied content to do while progressing our characters and making them stronger BECAUSE THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A MMORPG first and foremost. When I can literally predict what content is coming out patch for patch down to the very last details excluding item and the "new token" name then there may be some stagnation no? Surely all of this has a grand purpose in creating other activities, but as I step into the Golden Saucer zone and see practically NO ONE there makes me question how many people feel the same way as you.
This conversation is a moot point in the end because as per some juicy tidbits that driven has provided us Yoshi claims to have seen this as an issue and plans on doing something about it. The reason I felt the need to respond to your post was to let you know that because what you like to do in the game can be as fun as you claim and I am happy for you, but if its existence is at the cost for the primary purpose of the game then that doesn't just make it all fine and dandy. If you feel that this isn't the sole purpose of a MMORPG then look no further than having to PROGRESS through story content to access the content that you are doing. Crafting is the only thing in all of that which actually has a meta and has a stake in the progression aspect of the game. While I can admit crafting really gave me some purpose in playing the game and gave me a goal when it comes to getting a mansion for my small FC, its got some major glaring problems and always has. The crafting system in this game is amazing, but when you take a moment to step back you can see that its severely masochistic.
Real crafters do not see each mid patch of the game with hope like the many "fluff" hunters, we see them as how hard are we going to get kicked in the nads this time. When I heard that scrips offered a way for crafters to "further the meta" into an actual career with character progression I was excited, but it took a step back and saw the bigger picture. Once again non crafters given the ability to sell scrip mats to crafters walk away with the bigger bulge in their pocket. The very idea of attempting to HQ a ilvl 180, full well knowing that if its NQ you have lost millions of gill is what lies at the end of the road. Because if you don't HQ a ilvl 180, someone will just buy a HQ ilvl 160 so in the end the consistent profit of selling to crafters makes the most money in the end. If you trudge along to level 60 with all the crafting classes full knowing this then I can only wish you luck.Just know that just because your side of the grass is a blooming meadow with a beautiful rainbow and all is perfect in your little patch doesn't mean the raging inferno of destruction that surrounds you from all sides suddenly doesn't exist. I'm sorry but your post came across to me as someone covering up their ears and saying I can't hear you because you are saying things that I don't want to hear.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Until Endgame gets better balance in MMOs altogether its hard to expect much else. The core problem with any balance is the self entitled players who will complain that the best gear is in Raiding even if its 8 man raiding however these players all they will ever want to do is dungeons and even if you make really good gear come out of dungeons these entitled people will bitch they need raid gear. This is coming from a person who in WOW only did Kara and ZA in TBC who didnt care that I didnt get Sunwell gear yet I was happy with Heroic Dungeon gear. Too many casual players want shit handed to them, therefore you got the gear treadmill. While it was there in TBC and Vanilla WOW sometimes it took you 6+ months to replace gear because it took you that long to down the next set of content. Today people will not stand for "THE GRIND" because MMOs have become Welfare like games.
One thing which may stun some modern day players was the repeat running of raids - not for yourself, but for other guild members who hadn't got the gear.
Week in, week out, we would organise raid groups with the same core people - bringing in newer guild members so they could level up their gear.
People have a go at WOW, but my memories have the general community head and shoulders above some of the more modern day games.
One thing I will say is the game has a lot of "things" to do but anything that lacks a relevance to gear progression is still not content to me. I have said this several times but adding a very very minor amount of Esoterics to triple triad matches that you WIN, even specifying specific "harder" NPCS that you can only get them from and boom its content. Adding some kind of incentive for gear progression or even choosing rewards being MGP or Poetics for a lot of Golden Saucer minigames and the whole place would be booming. I'm not asking for SE to give me ESO for watering my digital plants but the option of turning in very rare bound items from harvesting or doing other activities for ESO could totally make this work. I just want diversity of content and that doesn't mean It all has to involve smashing my face against my keyboard for hardcore battle content. As a closer it would be nice if 25% of players ever cleared coil when it was relevant, the going statistic from SE themselves had it at less than 10% and its probably going to be even worse with how hard Alex Savage is. Lets just say you didn't want to know the JP/NA players split of that 10%.........
Edit: Gear and stat diversity really need to happen in this game because it really stagnates content, a lot of the secondary stat gear did come from token gear for SOME classes and varied from patch to patch. I don't think you can argue that coil gear always had crit/acc crit/det primarily for a lot of classes. The buff to skill/spell speed was much needed but the MAJOR nerf to Crit and small nerf to DET made the ilvl jacking up even worse than 2.x and I am really disappointed in that.
The people who focus and/or push through to bleeding edge - They either love it, because it is updated frequently and puts out new challenges on a regular basis and they can just keep up with it, or they hate it because the content comes in small enough chunks that they are able to get through it before the next bit is out, or the combat is stale, there are too many/not enough abilities, it's too much/not enough like WoW, etc. These folks pretty much just focus on their one class or role, min-maxing that class/role in PvE, and that's about it. Nothing wrong with these folks, just they are either going to love it, or hate it, and not much inbetween.
The RP/vanity folks - these aren't really the same camp but I'm lumping them together because they are really playing FFXIV as a meta - the game is there, but they are playing their own game inside of it. It has a great lore, a good sense of community, there is a pretty flexible emote and vanity system in place. The vanity folks may burn out, because while they are always adding new stuff, there's only so much dress-up you can do before your just in the same gear chase as the PvE folks, but it's fun while it lasts. The RPers tend to love it - heck, you can even log out by going to sleep...
The horizontal progression folks - these are the alt-o-holics, the people who are too ADD to focus on one class, the dirty casuals, etc. This was the primary audience for this game the first time around (1.0), the reason that the class system is designed the way it is, and what was originally intended for players to do - level pretty much everything all the way across. The game has changed away from that somewhat in ARR, but it still has pretty heavy leanings in this direction. These folks tend to love this game.
I almost put crafters/gatherers as a seperate camp, but really, they can either fall into 1 or 3 pretty readily, depending on which way they lean. There may be a few in the game just for the story, that is one of the hallmarks of the FF line, but really I don't see those people posting/complaining/talking about the game often, and by the time you've got to the end of the story, with the forced dungeons and trials along the way, most of them have pretty well fallen into one of the other camps by then.