Lessons learned sure, I can see that, what I'd like to know is what ensures this will not happen here? Because that's a matter of development funds drying up and a need for income to start coming in. It's not like you folks at the time thought it was okay to release 6 months early. It was a matter of what had to happen, you didn't have much choice.
We are taking everything we've learned, planning better than ever, and believe me, there's probably nothing we want to avoid more than releasing an un-finished game. Pantheon is also being funded very differently than Vanguard was, although I am not at liberty to go into details.
Fair enough, thanks for the response, I hope it all pans out as we do need a game like this on the market.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All I ask from Pantheon is beautiful, well animated characters. It is the one thing you cant avoid - it goes with you wherever you go, whenever you go there. It was the one thing I just could not get over with VG - those character models and animations were horrible and it cheapened what I thought was an amazing game. Also, I get the focus on making friends and socializing, but at 35, wife, baby, RL etc, I don't want to spend what little time I have spamming LFG ala eq2 for its first many years. Other than that, Good luck ! Surprised to find this game is still in the works - thought it got canned a while ago over some funding drama.
All I ask from Pantheon is beautiful, well animated characters. It is the one thing you cant avoid - it goes with you wherever you go, whenever you go there. It was the one thing I just could not get over with VG - those character models and animations were horrible and it cheapened what I thought was an amazing game. Also, I get the focus on making friends and socializing, but at 35, wife, baby, RL etc, I don't want to spend what little time I have spamming LFG ala eq2 for its first many years. Other than that, Good luck ! Surprised to find this game is still in the works - thought it got canned a while ago over some funding drama.
Every mmo has a social panel. You never have to spam chat. Just do searches and ask nicely and in detail.
Even with Vanguard at its lowest point I was getting groups instantly, I did it with Vanilla WoW, EQ2 and all other mmos.
Sounds to me like a guy who knows what he wants to build and has a plan to make it happen.
So go get it done already :-) *grin*
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
Unless the player base decides to drink, it doesn't matter how much water they throw at you. Reality my friend... the current player base is not interested in socializing... thus focusing on trying to make us all drink is a recipe for fail. All you need to do is look at all the recent MMOs as of late... they have all the tools for socializing (call it fake or real)... the players are the ones choosing not to participate. Groups have and always will be made... making it easier to find a group hasn't made games more social... seems to me what they need to do is eliminate any group finder tools altogether. If players want to group... they can just open their mouth up in chat... you know, like the way it used to be done way back in the early days... when socializing was king in MMOs.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
Unless the player base decides to drink, it doesn't matter how much water they throw at you. Reality my friend... the current player base is not interested in socializing... thus focusing on trying to make us all drink is a recipe for fail. All you need to do is look at all the recent MMOs as of late... they have all the tools for socializing (call it fake or real)... the players are the ones choosing not to participate. Groups have and always will be made... making it easier to find a group hasn't made games more social... seems to me what they need to do is eliminate any group finder tools altogether. If players want to group... they can just open their mouth up in chat... you know, like the way it used to be done way back in the early days... when socializing was king in MMOs.
That's because your used to Dynamic Events, You don't group if the game does it for you......The game controls your actions in the games your talking about.............Let me guess you don't have time to socialize either because your doing you game designated 200 part story quest.
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
I think the MMO player base will do just that once something actually materializes. Up to this point it's been a few screenshots and a lot of lip service. Most people who have been around for a while in this genre know this. I have yet to see anything in this mmo that I think will make it successful. 1999 ideas in a 2016/17 game don't seem like the way to go imo. Most people want to see something new. And the MMO genre is now full of a lot of players who never played in the old mmos. I imagine they will put a game like that on their pay no mind list. The very tiny vocal minority of old timer gamers who want another EQ1 is probably smaller then Wildstar's current population.
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
I think the MMO player base will do just that once something actually materializes. Up to this point it's been a few screenshots and a lot of lip service. Most people who have been around for a while in this genre know this. I have yet to see anything in this mmo that I think will make it successful. 1999 ideas in a 2016/17 game don't seem like the way to go imo. Most people want to see something new. And the MMO genre is now full of a lot of players who never played in the old mmos. I imagine they will put a game like that on their pay no mind list. The very tiny vocal minority of old timer gamers who want another EQ1 is probably smaller then Wildstar's current population.
You only need a few ideas to keep that community and grouping going and that reason is group xp and a sub class system.
If they follow the old EQ method it won't work,two months in and the old zones will be ghost zones and ruin it for new players dow nthe road or even for those few that want to play atls .
The reason has to be experience,if you give xp for questing,you remove community and the reason to group.You also need to put some thought into it and not just a simple xp system.AKA FFXI combat/xp/class system,the best that ever was only COULD be made a LOT better.
player to player combos and better yet add a third player to the mox then add in the magic users as was done in ffxi with magic bursts.Allow players the CHOICE to save combat points as did FFXI 100tp 200 tp 300 tp ,only do it BETTER.There are fantastic designs out there if only devs could think a bit and tweak them or improve them.
The ONLY ideas i have seen have been down right awful,ideas like somersaults ,free xp for stepping into a new area,linear questing instead of questing for a reason and everything has been solo solo.Call me skeptical but i have a hard time believing i won't see another same old new skin. I hope Brad can deliver,i hope it is not just another EQ clone he can do a LOT better.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
Unless the player base decides to drink, it doesn't matter how much water they throw at you. Reality my friend... the current player base is not interested in socializing... thus focusing on trying to make us all drink is a recipe for fail. All you need to do is look at all the recent MMOs as of late... they have all the tools for socializing (call it fake or real)... the players are the ones choosing not to participate. Groups have and always will be made... making it easier to find a group hasn't made games more social... seems to me what they need to do is eliminate any group finder tools altogether. If players want to group... they can just open their mouth up in chat... you know, like the way it used to be done way back in the early days... when socializing was king in MMOs.
That's because your used to Dynamic Events, You don't group if the game does it for you......The game controls your actions in the games your talking about.............Let me guess you don't have time to socialize either because your doing you game designated 200 part story quest.
That's why mmos fail after 30 to 60 days.
This was the case long before DE's, as well as story focused game-play, which really is a more recent addition mainly with AOC, SWTOR, ESO, TSW. The last game I saw with a large overall community involvement was SWG. Which most of that died off around 2005 with the NGE as most of those players left..
Plenty of games didn't focus on those things you listed above yet still had very small overall community interaction. SO I'd side more with Pep on this one. I'd say Its a combination of shifts in demographics and changes within demographics. People have changed as well as those who play these games have changed. From your background WOW (2005) onward... you wouldn't even know what it was like. Nor why it was like that...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
I think the MMO player base will do just that once something actually materializes. Up to this point it's been a few screenshots and a lot of lip service. Most people who have been around for a while in this genre know this. I have yet to see anything in this mmo that I think will make it successful. 1999 ideas in a 2016/17 game don't seem like the way to go imo. Most people want to see something new. And the MMO genre is now full of a lot of players who never played in the old mmos. I imagine they will put a game like that on their pay no mind list. The very tiny vocal minority of old timer gamers who want another EQ1 is probably smaller then Wildstar's current population.
See you on release date
I really think you don't understand that an mmo that worked in 1999-2001 will not work today. Do you know why? Because the genre is full of the new generation of gamers who will have zero patience for a game like this (the graphics will probably stop them before they even try it). I was there in EQ1 and DAoC. I wish it would work like that again, but let's be real. Most of the people we played with at that time either no longer have time for games or don't even care anymore. I really don't know what demographic they are looking to launch this for. It reminds me of how Wildstar was looking to cater to the raiding population. Didn't work out well for them did it? As far as your launch day comment. I've had my fill of EQ1 and "camping" mmos. I only look forward to new mmos and/or mmos that actually try something new. Funny thing is, this mmo is still more likely not to launch then launch. So, I guess we'll see if there is even a launch day.
I love Mr. McQuaids enthusiasm, and love the idea of having to work together, but it is the Achilles heel that will keep the game small. No one will commit the time nowadays to assembling teams/groups for PvE, unless it's done with silly LFG tools. imho these tools defeat the purpose and immersion of role playing games. Not only that, a major portion of the population have drifted into solo playing mmorpgs, where time is better managed in real life. Gone are the days of "lets make a deal" with wives, husbands, girlfriends, etc, to score gameplay hours. If you want a hit in today's mmorpg world, design a title with some solo player dungeons that have rewards that matter, and while your at it, figure out how to make a single player raid.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Pantheon is also being funded very differently than Vanguard was, although I am not at liberty to go into details.
Let me guess. This has something to do with Smed's new company?
I think most adults that know who Smed are wish him all the best with his future plans, but, at the same time the majority of them say "stay the hell away from the games we love".
So, having Smed do what you guess would be the same thing as taking a gun, loading it, take aim at your own foot and pull the trigger. Afterwards you will ask yourself, "Wtf did I just do?".
Both being extremely bad decisions! So, yes, I seriously doubt that will happen.
The problem for group-oriented MMO's is how they tend to split up the playerbase all over the world due to level-mechanics. While its not that much of a problem at launch or during primetime it becomes a huge issue if you mostly play during off-hours more than three months after launch.
What kinds of mechanisms do you have in store to make sure people can enjoy your game at hours when very few people are around?
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The problem for group-oriented MMO's is how they tend to split up the playerbase all over the world due to level-mechanics. While its not that much of a problem at launch or during primetime it becomes a huge issue if you mostly play during off-hours more than three months after launch.
What kinds of mechanisms do you have in store to make sure people can enjoy your game at hours when very few people are around?
I don't really think that mechanics can fill this gap, it basically comes down to the players and their ability to socially interact to play with, find or create guilds, friends, families, social skills to make new friends in their time zones etc.
I live in Australia and know all too well the problems countries outside of the US can face with off-peak time zones in MMORPGs but even in a game like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes I was able to enjoy my playtime and was never caught in a position where I wasn't able to play the game due to lack of other players.
Having other spheres like Crafting will also give players another option if they do not wish to engage in combat but I cannot go into any more details on the Crafting side of things yet, we will release more information on that later.
I tried Vanguard during beta / launch and didn't try it again until a few months before it shut down. I would give up every other game to have that back, in that state, during launch. The poor launch killed it. I also found that I ended up socializing more because I was more immersed in the world and wanted to be a part of it.
In the past I have said that I don't have time to play a game like that - that I am now an old, working, family busy, casual player. It turned out that it isn't true, but that the current games that took a lot of "time" to play were honestly just not worth that amount of time and effort. I want a world I can live in (even if part time). I thought maybe Archage would be that world but it's not for me.
If they can do as well as vanguard with some updates, or even better then the game should do well.
Until there is some money behind the production of this game, I won't anticipating ever seeing it release, or before 2025 at the rate it is going. (The devs stated they were slowly building a pre-alpha to try to find an investor, right?)
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
For some reason unbeknownst to me MMORPG games have always predominantly revolved around combat. Some have ventured into crafting and economy more than others (SWG) but for the most part they have mostly been combat centric. I think this is a huge mistake in an MMORPG. There are many of us that, while we do enjoy combat, we also enjoy economy and statistics not dependent, or having anything to do, with combat. There is already a game genre that favors combat centric game play and that is an FPS. MMORPGs should feature a more well-rounded type of game play that includes economy and other social functions for players to indulge themselves in.
Above all, there should always be an equal balance between combat and economy allowing for those who love crafting, vending, trading, and economic type game play to be on an equal level with combat. This would extend the life of the game exponentially with star players surfacing in both the combat and crafting/economic sphere with towns surfacing featuring store shop owners crafting and selling quality/rare merchandise. The hunt for these crafters and shops and traveling to far off places to acquire some of the elite crafted armor and weapons from far off towns alone would be a fun adventure. I suppose one can only dream.
Pantheon is also being funded very differently than Vanguard was, although I am not at liberty to go into details.
Let me guess. This has something to do with Smed's new company?
No, we are not in any kind of dialog with Smed. If you read my blog about his departure and the fact that in more recent years our vision for what a new MMO should be has drifted apart, at least from what I know now, it probably wouldn't make any sense. That said, of course, I wish him nothing but the best and look forward to what his new company is working on.
I love the idea of local markets, they add a lot of possibilities to gameplay for trade such as caravans and other new dynamics. Not knowing anything about the kind of housing or shops that might be planned (if any), there could even be some kind of trade routes for crafters to arrange with other players (and/or NPC traders) for their wares to reach larger markets, etc. When passes through your little village, send your goods to Capital City!
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
For some reason unbeknownst to me MMORPG games have always predominantly revolved around combat. Some have ventured into crafting and economy more than others (SWG) but for the most part they have mostly been combat centric. I think this is a huge mistake in an MMORPG. There are many of us that, while we do enjoy combat, we also enjoy economy and statistics not dependent, or having anything to do, with combat. There is already a game genre that favors combat centric game play and that is an FPS. MMORPGs should feature a more well-rounded type of game play that includes economy and other social functions for players to indulge themselves in.
Above all, there should always be an equal balance between combat and economy allowing for those who love crafting, vending, trading, and economic type game play to be on an equal level with combat. This would extend the life of the game exponentially with star players surfacing in both the combat and crafting/economic sphere with towns surfacing featuring store shop owners crafting and selling quality/rare merchandise. The hunt for these crafters and shops and traveling to far off places to acquire some of the elite crafted armor and weapons from far off towns alone would be a fun adventure. I suppose one can only dream.
I do have to say, that while combat is indeed paramount to Pantheon, I do agree that other games should try focusing on different things. We need experimentation and new ideas and such to move this genre forward. With Pantheon, there is an emphasis on truly engaging combat, we will have a crafting system that I think will be pretty cool, and a player-driven economy is also something very important to us. And lest anyone assume that Pantheon is just EQ or VG with new graphics, while we are building on the solid foundation of these earlier games, we also want to move the genre forward and have some pretty cool ideas. It's not time for me to go into them yet, but you'll hear about them in the next 1-2 months.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
I tried Vanguard during beta / launch and didn't try it again until a few months before it shut down. I would give up every other game to have that back, in that state, during launch. The poor launch killed it. I also found that I ended up socializing more because I was more immersed in the world and wanted to be a part of it.
In the past I have said that I don't have time to play a game like that - that I am now an old, working, family busy, casual player. It turned out that it isn't true, but that the current games that took a lot of "time" to play were honestly just not worth that amount of time and effort. I want a world I can live in (even if part time). I thought maybe Archage would be that world but it's not for me.
If they can do as well as vanguard with some updates, or even better then the game should do well.
Yes, a bad MMO launch is something extremely hard to recover from, if it's even possible. Without going into all of the whys and what happened (I have posted about that in detail in the past), I'm ultimately responsible for it's pre-mature launch and believe me, having to do that was extremely painful and even put me into a state of depression for quite some time. Those regrets live with me, remaining fresh in my mind. But when you mess something up, you can do two things: 1. just live with the screw-up and move on and do something else, or 2. learn from it, get back up on the horse, so to speak, and build another MMO and do everything you possibly can to avoid the mistakes of the past, and to learn from them as well. I chose 2. because I am a stubborn guy, and also during that dark time after Vanguard, I did a lot of soul searching, and I realized that all I want to do is continue to make great MMOs.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
The problem for group-oriented MMO's is how they tend to split up the playerbase all over the world due to level-mechanics. While its not that much of a problem at launch or during primetime it becomes a huge issue if you mostly play during off-hours more than three months after launch.
What kinds of mechanisms do you have in store to make sure people can enjoy your game at hours when very few people are around?
It's all about having enough people online. Too many, and you have over-crowding and too much competition for resources and frustration. But too few is even worse: not having enough people online not only makes it more difficult to find groups, it hinders the development of a real MMO community (something we feel, for a game like Pantheon, is absolutely essential).
So monitoring server/shard populations is very important. If they are too low, then shards need to be combined. If they are too high, then new shards need to be deployed.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
I tried Vanguard during beta / launch and didn't try it again until a few months before it shut down. I would give up every other game to have that back, in that state, during launch. The poor launch killed it. I also found that I ended up socializing more because I was more immersed in the world and wanted to be a part of it.
In the past I have said that I don't have time to play a game like that - that I am now an old, working, family busy, casual player. It turned out that it isn't true, but that the current games that took a lot of "time" to play were honestly just not worth that amount of time and effort. I want a world I can live in (even if part time). I thought maybe Archage would be that world but it's not for me.
If they can do as well as vanguard with some updates, or even better then the game should do well.
Yes, a bad MMO launch is something extremely hard to recover from, if it's even possible. Without going into all of the whys and what happened (I have posted about that in detail in the past), I'm ultimately responsible for it's pre-mature launch and believe me, having to do that was extremely painful and even put me into a state of depression for quite some time. Those regrets live with me, remaining fresh in my mind. But when you mess something up, you can do two things: 1. just live with the screw-up and move on and do something else, or 2. learn from it, get back up on the horse, so to speak, and build another MMO and do everything you possibly can to avoid the mistakes of the past, and to learn from them as well. I chose 2. because I am a stubborn guy, and also during that dark time after Vanguard, I did a lot of soul searching, and I realized that all I want to do is continue to make great MMOs.
I like what you did with Vanguard as a game, and I have faith in Pantheon.
I for one cant wait to try it out when it matures a bit.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Every mmo has a social panel. You never have to spam chat. Just do searches and ask nicely and in detail.
Even with Vanguard at its lowest point I was getting groups instantly, I did it with Vanilla WoW, EQ2 and all other mmos.
NO ONE READS GENERAL CHAT !
So go get it done already :-) *grin*
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
Unless the player base decides to drink, it doesn't matter how much water they throw at you. Reality my friend... the current player base is not interested in socializing... thus focusing on trying to make us all drink is a recipe for fail. All you need to do is look at all the recent MMOs as of late... they have all the tools for socializing (call it fake or real)... the players are the ones choosing not to participate. Groups have and always will be made... making it easier to find a group hasn't made games more social... seems to me what they need to do is eliminate any group finder tools altogether. If players want to group... they can just open their mouth up in chat... you know, like the way it used to be done way back in the early days... when socializing was king in MMOs.
That's because your used to Dynamic Events, You don't group if the game does it for you......The game controls your actions in the games your talking about.............Let me guess you don't have time to socialize either because your doing you game designated 200 part story quest.
That's why mmos fail after 30 to 60 days.
One of the things missing from MMO's has been the ability to have an actual shop and house in a town. Many people want to play blacksmiths, store owners, and so on. Having a physical store front/house in the old medieval style (which you see in Oblivion, etc) populated by players who are townies, paying other players who go off adventuring or seeking resources for their finds, sending goods to market with other players who are tradesman, and so on is probably the essential thing that has been missing from in game (centrally planned) economies. Whatever game can actually tap into this crafting/business itch that so many people seem to have is going to be a hit. Integrating all these aspects of gameplay together into a cohesive whole has never been done, and is probably the next holy grail of massive online gaming.
The economy, for its part, gives meaning to much of the things players do in virtual worlds. If you look at the tightly scripted lives of most current MMO's, there is absolutely no economy to speak of, and it becomes a very boring thing indeed for people who actually want the virtual world experience. The reason there are so many dissatisfied MMO'ers these days is that the framework of their playspace is so sparse. There is no room to imagine doing something unexpected tomorrow. The jackboot method of game creation and management that is the standard these days is a soulless, boring grind with no true social component. (That's a very good point about fake communities made earlier in the thread too, I think. Fake communities, fake social experiences.)
It's a very difficult thing to do, creating new game systems. Brad is one of the few people who has actually done this, innovating where everyone else is just copying. This deserves more respect than it gets from fans of the genre.
See you on release date
If they follow the old EQ method it won't work,two months in and the old zones will be ghost zones and ruin it for new players dow nthe road or even for those few that want to play atls .
The reason has to be experience,if you give xp for questing,you remove community and the reason to group.You also need to put some thought into it and not just a simple xp system.AKA FFXI combat/xp/class system,the best that ever was only COULD be made a LOT better.
player to player combos and better yet add a third player to the mox then add in the magic users as was done in ffxi with magic bursts.Allow players the CHOICE to save combat points as did FFXI 100tp 200 tp 300 tp ,only do it BETTER.There are fantastic designs out there if only devs could think a bit and tweak them or improve them.
The ONLY ideas i have seen have been down right awful,ideas like somersaults ,free xp for stepping into a new area,linear questing instead of questing for a reason and everything has been solo solo.Call me skeptical but i have a hard time believing i won't see another same old new skin.
I hope Brad can deliver,i hope it is not just another EQ clone he can do a LOT better.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Plenty of games didn't focus on those things you listed above yet still had very small overall community interaction. SO I'd side more with Pep on this one. I'd say Its a combination of shifts in demographics and changes within demographics. People have changed as well as those who play these games have changed. From your background WOW (2005) onward... you wouldn't even know what it was like. Nor why it was like that...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Gone are the days of "lets make a deal" with wives, husbands, girlfriends, etc, to score gameplay hours. If you want a hit in today's mmorpg world, design a title with some solo player dungeons that have rewards that matter, and while your at it, figure out how to make a single player raid.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
So, having Smed do what you guess would be the same thing as taking a gun, loading it, take aim at your own foot and pull the trigger. Afterwards you will ask yourself, "Wtf did I just do?".
Both being extremely bad decisions! So, yes, I seriously doubt that will happen.
What kinds of mechanisms do you have in store to make sure people can enjoy your game at hours when very few people are around?
I live in Australia and know all too well the problems countries outside of the US can face with off-peak time zones in MMORPGs but even in a game like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes I was able to enjoy my playtime and was never caught in a position where I wasn't able to play the game due to lack of other players.
Having other spheres like Crafting will also give players another option if they do not wish to engage in combat but I cannot go into any more details on the Crafting side of things yet, we will release more information on that later.
In the past I have said that I don't have time to play a game like that - that I am now an old, working, family busy, casual player. It turned out that it isn't true, but that the current games that took a lot of "time" to play were honestly just not worth that amount of time and effort. I want a world I can live in (even if part time). I thought maybe Archage would be that world but it's not for me.
If they can do as well as vanguard with some updates, or even better then the game should do well.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
[mod edit]
For some reason unbeknownst to me MMORPG games have always predominantly revolved around combat. Some have ventured into crafting and economy more than others (SWG) but for the most part they have mostly been combat centric. I think this is a huge mistake in an MMORPG. There are many of us that, while we do enjoy combat, we also enjoy economy and statistics not dependent, or having anything to do, with combat. There is already a game genre that favors combat centric game play and that is an FPS. MMORPGs should feature a more well-rounded type of game play that includes economy and other social functions for players to indulge themselves in.
Above all, there should always be an equal balance between combat and economy allowing for those who love crafting, vending, trading, and economic type game play to be on an equal level with combat. This would extend the life of the game exponentially with star players surfacing in both the combat and crafting/economic sphere with towns surfacing featuring store shop owners crafting and selling quality/rare merchandise. The hunt for these crafters and shops and traveling to far off places to acquire some of the elite crafted armor and weapons from far off towns alone would be a fun adventure. I suppose one can only dream.
<p>
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/blogs/151/170/my-response-to-smed-s-stepping-d
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, a bad MMO launch is something extremely hard to recover from, if it's even possible. Without going into all of the whys and what happened (I have posted about that in detail in the past), I'm ultimately responsible for it's pre-mature launch and believe me, having to do that was extremely painful and even put me into a state of depression for quite some time. Those regrets live with me, remaining fresh in my mind. But when you mess something up, you can do two things: 1. just live with the screw-up and move on and do something else, or 2. learn from it, get back up on the horse, so to speak, and build another MMO and do everything you possibly can to avoid the mistakes of the past, and to learn from them as well. I chose 2. because I am a stubborn guy, and also during that dark time after Vanguard, I did a lot of soul searching, and I realized that all I want to do is continue to make great MMOs.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about having enough people online. Too many, and you have over-crowding and too much competition for resources and frustration. But too few is even worse: not having enough people online not only makes it more difficult to find groups, it hinders the development of a real MMO community (something we feel, for a game like Pantheon, is absolutely essential).
So monitoring server/shard populations is very important. If they are too low, then shards need to be combined. If they are too high, then new shards need to be deployed.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
I for one cant wait to try it out when it matures a bit.
mmorpg junkie since 1999